RIAA, "DRM is dead."

[elph]

http://www.techspot.com/news/35518-riaa ... -dead.html

Anytime there is news about someone high up in the tech industry criticizing DRM, it's generally a positive experience – there are few consumers who approve of it and it's nice to know people on the inside realize that. But what if one of its biggest backers were now to frown upon DRM? That seems to be the case with Jonathan Lamy, chief spokesperson for the RIAA.

Lamy spoke about DRM in a brief blurb with SCMagazine, claiming that the technology is dead. He was in particular referring to the DRM-free music available via iTunes and, increasingly, other online music retailers.

This is in stark contrast to the RIAA's stance in the past. They have always been defenders of DRM, and are clearly an example of an organization that believes it is media conglomerates, not people, who have rights to content. So why the change? Is the RIAA admitting that DRM does not work or was this simply a passing comment that has no real bearing? Hopefully the former. Though most of us can easily find fault with the RIAA, DRM won't die so long as at least one company out there supports it.

 

[Chibibar]

http://www.techspot.com/news/35518-riaa-believes-that-drm-is-dead.html

Anytime there is news about someone high up in the tech industry criticizing DRM, it's generally a positive experience – there are few consumers who approve of it and it's nice to know people on the inside realize that. But what if one of its biggest backers were now to frown upon DRM? That seems to be the case with Jonathan Lamy, chief spokesperson for the RIAA.

Lamy spoke about DRM in a brief blurb with SCMagazine, claiming that the technology is dead. He was in particular referring to the DRM-free music available via iTunes and, increasingly, other online music retailers.

This is in stark contrast to the RIAA's stance in the past. They have always been defenders of DRM, and are clearly an example of an organization that believes it is media conglomerates, not people, who have rights to content. So why the change? Is the RIAA admitting that DRM does not work or was this simply a passing comment that has no real bearing? Hopefully the former. Though most of us can easily find fault with the RIAA, DRM won't die so long as at least one company out there supports it.

DRM on paper looks great, but like any protection, there will ALWAYS be smarter people out there "cracking" them. It is all matter of time and cost. Look at Sims3 and "buy content" yea.. how long that last?

Steam doesn't have any DRM does it? (I never check the code) look how well they do.

 

[Cat]

Of course Steam has DRM. Every game you buy on Steam has to be run through Steam and you have to be online with the account the game is tied to.

 

[Bowielee]

Of course Steam has DRM. Every game you buy on Steam has to be downloaded through Steam and you have to be online with the account the game is tied to.

FTFY

You can run steam games without any active internet connection whatsoever.

 

[Chibibar]

Of course Steam has DRM. Every game you buy on Steam has to be run through Steam and you have to be online with the account the game is tied to.

true, but it is not on your PC (like rootkit) right? just your userID and password and check with the system. The downside you have to be online.

I remember the Sony Rootkit fiasco when you try to uninstall the crap...

 

[Cat]

FTFY

You can run steam games without any active internet connection whatsoever.

If you crack them, sure.

true, but it is not on your PC (like rootkit) right? just your userID and password and check with the system. The downside you have to be online.

I remember the Sony Rootkit fiasco when you try to uninstall the crap...

I think that's correct.

 

[Bowielee]

FTFY

You can run steam games without any active internet connection whatsoever.

If you crack them, sure.

You don't need to crack them at all. Steam has an offline mode. I've always had full access to my games, even when I wasn't connected to the internet, unless, of course it's an online only game, like Left 4 Dead.

 

[Cat]

Steam's offline mode is notoriously unreliable. I just unplugged my connection to test it and I couldn't start offline mode because steam wasn't online.

 

[JCM]

Of course Steam has DRM. Every game you buy on Steam has to be downloaded through Steam and you have to be online with the account the game is tied to.

FTFY

You can run steam games without any active internet connection whatsoever.

You must validate every game through steam online before you can enter offline mode, so there isnt much of a difference between entering online to play then going offline, and playing while online.

Oh, and accoring to /. and wiki- According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.

 

[Bowielee]

Steam's offline mode is notoriously unreliable. I just unplugged my connection to test it and I couldn't start offline mode because steam wasn't online.

Then something's wrong on your end, because when I do the same thing, it asks me when I open steam if I'd like to open in offline mode.

 

[elph]

Keep in mind, the RIAA is really only talking about DRM in terms of the online music industry. Nothing at all with video games.

In fact, I have found 1 peice of software that has yet to have it's DRM cracked. Blood Bowl from Cyanide uses SecuROM DRM, and there isn't a crack for it yet. It's been available for direct download in the US for about a month now, but doesn't get released on Steam or physical discs until Sept.

I'm sure eventually it will be cracked, but so far... not yet.

 

[Shegokigo]

Steam's offline mode is notoriously unreliable. I just unplugged my connection to test it and I couldn't start offline mode because steam wasn't online.

Then something's wrong on your end, because when I do the same thing, it asks me when I open steam if I'd like to open in offline mode.

Seriously, same thing here, I can play offline mode without ever getting online. Not sure what CAT and JCM are talking about.

 

[Chibibar]

Keep in mind, the RIAA is really only talking about DRM in terms of the online music industry. Nothing at all with video games.

In fact, I have found 1 peice of software that has yet to have it's DRM cracked. Blood Bowl from Cyanide uses SecuROM DRM, and there isn't a crack for it yet. It's been available for direct download in the US for about a month now, but doesn't get released on Steam or physical discs until Sept.

I'm sure eventually it will be cracked, but so far... not yet.

Yea. my fault to derail usually when I DRM, I usually associate to games first than music.

 

[Chazwozel]

Steam's offline mode is notoriously unreliable. I just unplugged my connection to test it and I couldn't start offline mode because steam wasn't online.

Then something's wrong on your end, because when I do the same thing, it asks me when I open steam if I'd like to open in offline mode.

Seriously, same thing here, I can play offline mode without ever getting online. Not sure what CAT and JCM are talking about.

Just tried it. Works offline just fine. My bullshit detector is pointing in CAT and JCM's direction.

-- Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:46 am --

Of course Steam has DRM. Every game you buy on Steam has to be downloaded through Steam and you have to be online with the account the game is tied to.

FTFY

You can run steam games without any active internet connection whatsoever.

You must validate every game through steam online before you can enter offline mode, so there isnt much of a difference between entering online to play then going offline, and playing while online.

Oh, and accoring to /. and wiki- According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.

You validate the game right after you download it. And then you play offline to your heart's content.


Of course you have to be online to download the game!

Your definition of DRM suggests that even this website is a form of DRM because you need to be online to view it. While I agree that Steam itself is a form of DRM, it's in no way similar to the way other games utilize DRM. You don't have a limited amount of installs and you can play the game on any computer as long as you log in under your Steam name. It actually works with the customer, and as long as you actually pay for you game, Steam is a good deal.

The whole offline mode argument is utterly retarded. First off who plays PC games offline anymore? And even if you do (say on a laptop on the train), when was the last time you installed a non DRM game while on the move? Chances are you're going to download, validate, and install a game before you move to a no internet area. Virtually everyone with a PC has an internet connection. A personal computer is utterly worthless without internet connection, and if you don't have an internet connection chances are strong that you have no interest in playing current video games on Steam.


That UEA that you have quote is pretty much the standard legal statement of any and every online service to bail their ass out of being responsible in case their servers crap out for the day. If the World of Warcraft servers bust down, do you think Blizzard owes anyone anything? They have the same exact statement.

 

[@Li3n]

Did you unplug the internet before checking?! (though i do recall it working when my net was down during the DoW2 beta it's always best to double check).

 

[JCM]

You cant play a game until it has been authenticated, and yes, offline mode is there, but if you want a new game that uses Steam, and have no internet, good-fucking-luck.

The other issues are third-party DRM that sometimes go wonky, but thats not Valve´s fault.

 

[@Li3n]

Good thing that internet connections never fail then....

 

[Shegokigo]

You cant play a game until it has been authenticated, and yes, offline mode is there, but if you want a new game that uses Steam, and have no internet, good-fucking-luck.

If you're in the market for a new game, and you don't have internet, you couldnt' buy it from the STEAM store anyway. Where are you trying to go with this JCM?

The other issues are third-party DRM that sometimes go wonky, but thats not Valve´s fault.

As far as I know, there are no third party DRM with STEAM purchased games.

 

[Chazwozel]

You cant play a game until it has been authenticated, and yes, offline mode is there, but if you want a new game that uses Steam, and have no internet, good-smurfing-luck.

If you're in the market for a new game, and you don't have internet, you couldnt' buy it from the STEAM store anyway. Where are you trying (and failing) to go with this JCM?

The other issues are third-party DRM that sometimes go wonky, but thats not Valve´s fault.

As far as I know, there are no third party DRM with STEAM purchased games.

I think he means if you by something like Half-Life at the store and go to install it with no internet connection. Thing is the box says under system requirements: INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PLAY! I mean nowadays buying a PC game always requires an internet connection. Complaining about Steam based games requiring internet connection is like bitching about requiring internet connection to play an MMO.

I really can't fathom who doesn't have internet connection on their computer. Maybe in like 1994...

 

[JCM]

Several.
Example, GTAIV has securom, as well as many other Steam games-
http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=11
However Steam rocks in telling you which other DRM is there besides steam-

And yes, again STEAM in itself is DRM. You must activate the game online (and in the case of popular games like Half Life 2 at launch, spend days waiting for activation servers to come back online to play), and it checks if you have a legit copy of all your games everytime you turn it on.

You cant play a game until it has been authenticated, and yes, offline mode is there, but if you want a new game that uses Steam, and have no internet, good-smurfing-luck.

If you're in the market for a new game, and you don't have internet, you couldnt' buy it from the STEAM store anyway. Where are you trying (and failing) to go with this JCM?

The other issues are third-party DRM that sometimes go wonky, but thats not Valve´s fault.

As far as I know, there are no third party DRM with STEAM purchased games.

I think he means if you by something like Half-Life at the store and go to install it with no internet connection. Thing is the box says under system requirements: INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PLAY! I mean nowadays buying a PC game always requires an internet connection. Complaining about Steam based games requiring internet connection is like bitching about requiring internet connection to play an MMO.

Of course its reasonable to make someone connect online, fuck yu if you are travelling and you buy a few games to play alone

Reasonable to pussies who bend over and do whatever companies say, really, but sadly thats the way the future of gaming DRM is going, and there´s a crack avaliable within launch day, anyway, so both the pussies and those who dont feel like looking for an internet connection just to play a fucking game alone, will be happy.

Not that I hate Steam, its pretty reasonable, no Spyware (for EA, Valve games), after initial activation, you dont need to chonnect again, no limits to computers a game can be installed (although just one can play the game online at a time, but thats fair enough).

 

[Shegokigo]

Of course its reasonable to make someone connect online, fuck yu if you are travelling and you buy a few games to play alone

Dunno about you, but everywhere I travel offers me very convienent internet connection. :slywink: Unless I way to play in the middle of the rainforest..... DAMN! :tongue:

Reasonable to pussies who bend over and do whatever companies say, really, but sadly thats the way the future of gaming DRM is going, and there´s a crack avaliable within launch day, anyway, so both the pussies and those who dont feel like looking for an internet connection just to play a fucking game alone, will be happy.

Must suck for those who pirate games more than they purchase them huh?

 

[JCM]

Reasonable to pussies who bend over and do whatever companies say, really, but sadly thats the way the future of gaming DRM is going, and there´s a crack avaliable within launch day, anyway, so both the pussies and those who dont feel like looking for an internet connection just to play a fucking game alone, will be happy.

Must suck for those who pirate games more than they purchase them huh?

Or those who arent pussies and need to ask for permission to play a game they paid for, but hey, thats how 90% of the world is.

Funnily, after installing Half-Life 2 and cracking it, I was playing it within 4 hours of purchasing it, while my idiot pussy mates were waiting for 2 days for the Half Life 2 activation servers to get back online during the launch period debacle.
:smug:

 

[Shegokigo]

Or those who arent pussies and need to ask for permission to play a game they paid for, but hey, thats how 90% of the world is.

Oh you're totally right, pirates have way more claim to a game than someone who paid for it. :eyeroll:

Funnily, after installing Half-Life 2 and cracking it, I was playing it within 4 hours of purchasing it, while my idiot pussy mates were waiting for 2 days for the Half Life 2 activation servers to get back online during the launch period debacle.
:smug:

Sad situation, glad you totally understand that some companies have issues with launch days.

 

[figmentPez]

Dunno about you, but everywhere I travel offers me very convienent internet connection. :slywink: Unless I way to play in the middle of the rainforest..... DAMN! :tongue:

Or while driving down the highway. I'm going on another road trip with my family soon, and while I'm not driving I'll be doing stuff on my laptop. However, that won't include playing Gametap games. They require an internet connect to play, every time. (I've never tested to see what happens if you loose your connection while playing). I think the benefits of unlimited games for $60 a year outweighs the limitations (which will be even fewer when the new encyrption rolls out and 64-bit is supported, as well as game mods), but it's a pretty big drawback to not be able to play whenever and wherever you want.

 

[JCM]

Of course everywhere in the world there´s an internet connection just at the next street corner.

Or those who arent pussies and need to ask for permission to play a game they paid for, but hey, thats how 90% of the world is.

Oh you're totally right, pirates have way more claim to a game than someone who paid for it. :eyeroll:

NAh, just pussies have more a claim for the vaseline when companies start asking the PAYING customers, to validate something they bought, when pirates get it before launch day, hacked, cracked and working. Dont mind me, since anyone who wont authorise online *must* be a pirate, everyone who does can be a pussy, how about it?

Funnily, after installing Half-Life 2 and cracking it, I was playing it within 4 hours of purchasing it, while my idiot pussy mates were waiting for 2 days for the Half Life 2 activation servers to get back online during the launch period debacle.
:smug:

Sad situation, glad you totally understand that some companies have issues with launch days.

Glad the pathetic "PIRATES" excuse is still being used in any debate when someone asks why those who BUY it will have to go thorugh shitloads of troubles, when Half-Life 2 was already avaliable hacked, cracked and working before launch.

Heck, to tell the truth, cracked games run better and with no hassle (specially SECUROM titles that experience performance burps), and paying customers have to chose to either watse their time with slowed performance and having to activate stuff, or do like the pirates and crack their game copy. Heck, Morrowind and Oblivion had a huge increase in performance.

Awaiting more "BUT ONLY PIRATES ARENT PUSSIES!!" strawmen, instead of a good reason on why one must activate online something he just paid for.

 

[Chazwozel]

Solution to all your internet travel woes:

And really it's kind of childish to view it as "permission to play" I've had far more beef with the WoW servers being down than Steam being fucked up. You're paying for a game, but you're also paying for online service accompanying the game. The thing you really pay for when you buy a physical copy of the disk is the box and instruction manual. Sometimes that service is down, the UEA that you agree to when you buy the game says this. No one should be bitching about something they agree to before they buy the game.

 

[Bubble181]

Solution to all your internet travel woes:

And really it's kind of childish to view it as "permission to play" I've had far more beef with the WoW servers being down than Steam being fucked up. You're paying for a game, but you're also paying for online service accompanying the game. The thing you really pay for when you buy a physical copy of the disk is the box and instruction manual. Sometimes that service is down, the UEA that you agree to when you buy the game says this. No one should be bitching about something they agree to before they buy the game.

No offense Chaz, but you're coming off as the dick in the discussion. I play games off line almost exclusively. I don't care for other people in my games, I get enough crap from people as is. I play solely single player, and I'll be damned if I need a net connection for it. I regularly buy games then crack them simply to avoid the need for a net connection. i use my computer quite extensively away from the 'net. Your "solution" works in one country, which isn't really all that useful. I regularly play in three different countries, I don't intend to get internet abonnements for each one; especially since they cost an arm and a leg in two of those three (the brits are lucky and the yanks even more so.)

And, DRM means Digital Rights Management. ANY way in which a publisher tries to limit what you can do with digital stuff you purchased is DRM. Yes, down to CD keys and "what is the 7th word of page 15 of the manual" from the days of yore. Whether or not all DRM is bad is another debate, but claiming these things aren't DRM is simply trying to alter the definition of the word.

 

[Shegokigo]

but it's a pretty big drawback to not be able to play whenever and wherever you want.

I hardly count the Rainforests of Brazil and on a road trip (in the car) as "whenever/wherever".

NAh, just pussies have more a claim for the vaseline when companies start asking the PAYING customers, to validate something they bought, when pirates get it before launch day, hacked, cracked and working. Dont mind me, since anyone who wont authorise online *must* be a pirate, everyone who does can be a pussy, how about it?

You're not fooling anyone JCM. We're well aware of your own self-glorified online antics. Oh, and way to dodge the point proving you wrong in that one.

Glad the pathetic "PIRATES" excuse is still being used in any debate when someone asks why those who BUY it will have to go thorugh shitloads of troubles, when Half-Life 2 was already avaliable hacked, cracked and working before launch.

Call it pathetic all you like but the reason is valid and still proving you wrong.

Heck, to tell the truth, cracked games run better and with no hassle (specially SECUROM titles that experience performance burps), and paying customers have to chose to either watse their time with slowed performance and having to activate stuff, or do like the pirates and crack their game copy. Heck, Morrowind and Oblivion had a huge increase in performance.

Gee, I wonder who's responsible for SECUROM in the first place. :slywink: inb4zomgthecompaniezsuckandthatswhyidoit

Awaiting more "BUT ONLY PIRATES ARENT PUSSIES!!" strawmen, instead of a good reason on why one must activate online something he just paid for.

To prove they purchased it and never have to worry about it again. Duh?

 

[figmentPez]

Solution to all your internet travel woes:

Yeah, money solves a lot of technology problems. However, I don't have the money to spend on a cellular data plan. I could buy a game from GOG for a whole lot cheaper than I could get even a month of service.

 

[Chazwozel]

Solution to all your internet travel woes:

And really it's kind of childish to view it as "permission to play" I've had far more beef with the WoW servers being down than Steam being smurfed up. You're paying for a game, but you're also paying for online service accompanying the game. The thing you really pay for when you buy a physical copy of the disk is the box and instruction manual. Sometimes that service is down, the UEA that you agree to when you buy the game says this. No one should be bitching about something they agree to before they buy the game.

No offense Chaz, but you're coming off as the * in the discussion. I play games off line almost exclusively. I don't care for other people in my games, I get enough crap from people as is. I play solely single player, and I'll be damned if I need a net connection for it. I regularly buy games then crack them simply to avoid the need for a net connection. i use my computer quite extensively away from the 'net. Your "solution" works in one country, which isn't really all that useful. I regularly play in three different countries, I don't intend to get internet abonnements for each one; especially since they cost an arm and a leg in two of those three (the brits are lucky and the yanks even more so.)

And, DRM means Digital Rights Management. ANY way in which a publisher tries to limit what you can do with digital stuff you purchased is DRM. Yes, down to CD keys and "what is the 7th word of page 15 of the manual" from the days of yore. Whether or not all DRM is bad is another debate, but claiming these things aren't DRM is simply trying to alter the definition of the word.

I'm not trying to claim they're not DRM, I'm just saying that the requirements for the DRM access are not all that steep with Steam. The best option for your situation is to not buy games with "internet access" as a system requirement. I mean no one is forcing you to buy anything right? If I want to buy a rare Peugeot or Fiat in the United States, I'm going to have to pay premium coinage for them, but I don't have to buy them. Same deal with the video games. It's like buying the newest game with insane RAM and CPU requirements and then bitching about it when your 5 year old computer can't run it.

-- Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:32 pm --

Solution to all your internet travel woes:

Yeah, money solves a lot of technology problems. However, I don't have the money to spend on a cellular data plan. I could buy a game from GOG for a whole lot cheaper than I could get even a month of service.

Ugh... anyone who NEEDS to play video games 24/7 on their laptop on the road needs a cattle prod up the ass anyway. Otherwise use this to deal with travel:

 

[tegid]

Or those who arent pussies and need to ask for permission to play a game they paid for, but hey, thats how 90% of the world is.

Oh you're totally right, pirates have way more claim to a game than someone who paid for it. :eyeroll:

Funnily, after installing Half-Life 2 and cracking it, I was playing it within 4 hours of purchasing it, while my idiot pussy mates were waiting for 2 days for the Half Life 2 activation servers to get back online during the launch period debacle.
:smug:

Sad situation, glad you totally understand that some companies have issues with launch days.

Reading comprehension FAIL

That, or I'm not getting your point.

 

[Shegokigo]

Reading comprehension FAIL

That, or I'm not getting your point.

You're not. :slywink:

 

[figmentPez]

Ugh... anyone who NEEDS to play video games 24/7 on their laptop on the road needs a cattle prod up the ass anyway. Otherwise use this to deal with travel: Nintendo DS

I have a Nintendo DS already. I've used it and other portable gaming systems a lot when I'm travelling. However, I just got my first laptop. I'm also already subscribed to Gametap. I'm just expressing my lament over the limitations of the service, which are not limited to exotic locations like the rainforest. I'd have been similarly out of luck during the week-long power outage after hurricane ike. My laptop, which I didn't have then, gets ~6 hours on a charge. Could have done a lot to relieve the boredom of no internet. It's not about needing to play, it's about wanting to play. There are other options, I will do other things, I'm just pointing out a DRM scheme that is even more restrictive than Steam.

 

[Bowielee]

Ugh... anyone who NEEDS to play video games 24/7 on their laptop on the road needs a cattle prod up the a** anyway. Otherwise use this to deal with travel: Nintendo DS

I have a Nintendo DS already. I've used it and other portable gaming systems a lot when I'm travelling. However, I just got my first laptop. I'm also already subscribed to Gametap. I'm just expressing my lament over the limitations of the service, which are not limited to exotic locations like the rainforest. I'd have been similarly out of luck during the week-long power outage after hurricane ike. My laptop, which I didn't have then, gets ~6 hours on a charge. Could have done a lot to relieve the boredom of no internet. It's not about needing to play, it's about wanting to play. There are other options, I will do other things, I'm just pointing out a DRM scheme that is even more restrictive than Steam.

I was one of the earliest subscribers to gametap. Now that they've switched to a web based system, rather than a dedicated client, it's gone to hell.

 

[Shegokigo]

I have a Nintendo DS already. I've used it and other portable gaming systems a lot when I'm travelling. However, I just got my first laptop. I'm also already subscribed to Gametap. I'm just expressing my lament over the limitations of the service, which are not limited to exotic locations like the rainforest. I'd have been similarly out of luck during the week-long power outage after hurricane ike. My laptop, which I didn't have then, gets ~6 hours on a charge. Could have done a lot to relieve the boredom of no internet. It's not about needing to play, it's about wanting to play. There are other options, I will do other things, I'm just pointing out a DRM scheme that is even more restrictive than Steam.

So over the course of a year, 1-5% of your Gametap is unavailable and you find that a large limitation to the service?