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So.

I'm 1000% in the market to move, or at least to start researching cities I could potentially move too. I want you guys to pitch me your cities. What do you like, housing, things to do, ins and outs, what you hate, jobs, etc etc.

I just feel so trapped in the bubble of my town, I'm curious what it's like outside of here and would love just general thoughts and opinions about other cities, other places.

And before you ask, I don't really know what I'm looking for - I just want a change and have dreamt of moving from my state since high school. I just want a new place. Nothing super rural since that's what I'm dealing with currently - I want more city. And my skill set is pretty sad, I'm unqualified for most things, still, I'm gonna just try at the very least. But yeah! Talk to me.

Well then, stay away from my area. Often ranked highest in the country for car theft, is notorious for druggies, and housing and rent prices only slightly better than the San Fransisco Bay area which has some of the most expensive rates in the world.

But, you know, I'm here, so . . .

I'm not going to try to sell any part of Morgantown except Yama, some of the best Japanese food around. If you're looking for a bigger city, I definitely pimp for Pittsburgh (quiet, @jwhouk. ) Starting with two of the nation's finest record stores in the country in Jerry's and Attic. A literal multitude of colleges and universities in the Oakland neighborhood. A kick-ass amusement park in Kennywood. A entry to the city hat has to be seen to be believed when you exit the Fort Pitt Tunnel. This view from the top of Mt. Washington...

I think living in Colorado is awesome, but the cost of living is... Not small.

Come to Halifax! The downtown area is like pub city, but we have an amazing arts scene. Lots of little locally owned shops, too. Local theatre productions, a cool science centre, etc. Plus, the biking trails are amazing (though I don't think you're into biking). Oh, and we have these awesome places called The Board Room Cafe. It's a cafe, but with a VAST selection of board games. It's awesome.

It's a bit of a pain getting around, but the transit system isn't TOO bad. Apartments are reasonably priced, too, from what I understand. There are some cheaper ones in not-so-nice neighbourhoods, but that's like any city, isn't it?

And um...there's also this super nerdy yoga guy that could show you around the city.

Oh! And we have a thing called a Harbour Hopper that gives you a tour around downtown and can convert into a water vehicle.

The cost of living here is awesome, which is part of why our dollar went so far down here, and therefore a large amount of why we live here now. That being said, it's not a city by any stretch of the imagination, and the nearest "city" is has 16k people and is 30 minutes away. The nearest "big city" is still under 100k and is an hour away, and we're about equidistant from Portland and San Francisco, so you're a long way from a Metro. On the whole though, if you were looking for a small town (2500), in a depressed economic area (very few job prospects not tied to one of the two major industries, lumber and healthcare), and in a recreationally legal state; you could do a whole lot worse than Myrtle Point. At least all of the people we've come in contact with have been friendly, there's very little obvious evidence of the meth and heroin epidemics (though we appear to have acquired some sketchy new neighbors squatting on a burnt out piece of property, in an RV, who appear to be overtly racist), and it's very quiet - except for all of the logging trucks compression braking on their way into town from the east.

Texas! We've got big cities, and we've got not-so-big communities right outside big cities, in easy driving distance. The cost of living is nice, unemployment is low, the winters are mild but the summers are DEFINITELY NOT. A/C is a must, both for your car and your home, no two ways about it.

But in my experience, there are few places as easy and lucrative to "start over" than Texas. The closer you get to Austin, the more LGBTQ-friendly you'll find people to be, though the cost of living also increases accordingly (and exponentially). So there is that tradeoff. But nowhere near as bad as I'd expect Utah to have been. And there's nightlife, if you're into that sort of thing. There's also really good internet, if you'd rather stay home, like me.

Forgetting the touristy stuff, why Amazon HQ2 should be in Buffalo, NY why LittleKagsin should move to Buffalo, NY.

Cost of living is insanely cheap. I'm in a 2 bedroom apartment in a pretty popular part of town that costs $850 a month.

If you're a drinker, we have a great bar scene. Last call is 4am.

If you're the kind of person that likes eating food, we have phenomenal food. Obviously wings, but the nicer dining scene has expanded in the area as well.

If you like nature and hiking and whatnot, we've got a lot of great scenery around us. Niagara falls, of course, but the gorge just downstream is beautiful as well. Letchwork park is a bit of a drive from the city but its beautiful.

The local football team, the Buffalo Bills are currently riding a relatively long streak of making the playoffs and its been pretty fun.

As a city built for a much larger population, traffic is incredibly light around here. People (me included) will complain about traffic, but it doesn't hold a candle to what big cities get.

The economy in the area has expanded a lot, geico specifically has a huge call center here that apparently pays pretty well and hires people with 0 skills.

We're really close to Canada, so if you haven't been and want to check a country off your bucket list, there you go.

The only real downside is snow. We can get a lot of it. If you hate snow, this isn't a good place for you. Other than that, its a great city.

What I will say about Colorado is that it's nerdy as fuck, and you might really like a place like Fort Collins. Denver has a pretty high attendance Comic Con, but it's still no where near as huge as SDCC in terms of content, mostly because it is run by a nerdy non profit that uses pop culture to teach literacy. I live in a smaller town, but it's right on the interstate and a 30 min drive from Denver.[DOUBLEPOST=1514957327,1514957264][/DOUBLEPOST]

blotsfan said:

Forgetting the touristy stuff, why Amazon HQ2 should be in Buffalo, NY why LittleKagsin should move to Buffalo, NY.

Cost of living is insanely cheap. I'm in a 2 bedroom apartment in a pretty popular part of town that costs $850 a month.

If you're a drinker, we have a great bar scene. Last call is 4am.

If you're the kind of person that likes eating food, we have phenomenal food. Obviously wings, but the nicer dining scene has expanded in the area as well.

If you like nature and hiking and whatnot, we've got a lot of great scenery around us. Niagara falls, of course, but the gorge just downstream is beautiful as well. Letchwork park is a bit of a drive from the city but its beautiful.

The local football team, the Buffalo Bills are currently riding a relatively long streak of making the playoffs and its been pretty fun.

As a city built for a much larger population, traffic is incredibly light around here. People (me included) will complain about traffic, but it doesn't hold a candle to what big cities get.

The economy in the area has expanded a lot, geico specifically has a huge call center here that apparently pays pretty well and hires people with 0 skills.

We're really close to Canada, so if you haven't been and want to check a country off your bucket list, there you go.

The only real downside is snow. We can get a lot of it. If you hate snow, this isn't a good place for you. Other than that, its a great city.

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I still get really fucking confused by how nice Buffalo is now. It was such a shithole 15 years ago, and is recovering into such a pretty city now.

Dei said:

I still get really fucking confused by how nice Buffalo is now. It was such a shithole 15 years ago, and is recovering into such a pretty city now.

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Its amazing. When I was in high school, North Park/Hertel was considered kind of a crap part of town. Now, I think I'd want to buy a house in this area.

Ashland, OR, home of the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. It is a quirky town, full of hippies, retirees, retired hippies, college students, and is a stone's throw from every conceivable ideology on the political spectrum. Due to the tourists coming for the festival, there are a hundred (more, probably) great restaurants and there is tons of outdoor activities to do here: hiking, climbing, rafting, skiing, biking, etc. Let me just give you some pros and cons:

Pros:
- You like making costumes? I don't doubt you could land a job doing just that for the plays. I don't know what it pays, but I bet you can see all of the plays pretty cheaply if you work on them!
- It isn't the big city but it has a lot of the culture of a big city.
- Mountains, lakes, rivers, forests are all 20 minutes away or less. The beach pacific ocean is 2.5 hours away too.
- San Francisco is 6 hours away, Portland is 4 hours away, and Seattle is 8 hours away. They are all great for getting away for the weekend.
- The Britt Festival sees a ton of great music come through during the summer.
- We have four glorious seasons, each about 3 months long. My wife loves fall and spring the best and things the summer gets too hot. I don't mind the hear, personally.

Cons:
- It isn't a big city, so it doesn't have the robust employment opportunities you might find there.
- The smoke from the forest fires in August can hang in the valley. It is a great time to get away.
- Extreme liberals (the mumps epidemic will start in Ashland, I bet) surrounded by conservatives. Everyone wears their politics right on their sleeves here.
- Ashland, OR is ridiculously expensive. You will need to leave in Talent, Phoenix, or Medford to make ends meet, most likely. It isn't a huge deal, since everything is so close, but Talent and Phoenix are very small and Medford is the farthest away and also the most urban sprawled of the lot.

If Ashland, OR piques your interest, inquire within!

Not even going to recommend anything (except for one wild stab) until some questions get answered.

-Are you interested in inside the US only? My assumption is that you are only looking for lower 48 but want to be sure.
-What is your preferred climate? Weather is going to be a BIG make-or-break if you can't abide heat/cold, or get depressed when it's too cloudy. Even something as dumb as the scenery will take a big hit, and determine whether you're surrounded by pine trees, poplars, or palms.
-Residence or regroup? Are you looking for a place to live, or do you just want somewhere you can stay 5 years or so and grind some XP and fame?
-School? Is being too close to/far away from a school/university going to make a difference?

I only really feel confident talking about the area where I've spent most of my life, which is between I-96 and I-80 (N of Fort Wayne/South Bend IN, Toledo OH, S of Grand Rapids/Lansing/Flint MI) but just as a wild guess, I would look at Sioux City, IA. I've never been there (and maybe @Dave can speak more to it?) so have no actual experience with it. The stats look good (climate, employment, population, access to state parks, waterfront, and airport), but it doesn't exactly scream "Bohemia." I look forward to hearing more about it from anyone who's lived (near?) there.

Also I re-upped my Facebook friend request since it looks like I got purged in the last round.

--Patrick

Buy/retrofit a camper van and live dat road trip life until you find a place that makes you happy.

For a brief time, from around 2004 or so, we had the tallest building in the world.

Yeah, do non-US areas need to apply? I have an apartment I'm renting out 2 hours from London, 3 hours from Paris, and 30 minutes from me :-P Brussels definitely has a lot going for it, and it's ownset of downsides...but it's definitely something very different from small-town USA.

Hawaii is expensive and jobs are going to be hard to find since the employment rate is low. Oh I can't forgot that some despot wants to shoot missiles at us which we'd have about 10 minutes to prepare for. But the weather's not bad.

WasabiPoptart said:

Oh I can't forgot that some despot wants to shoot missiles at us which we'd have about 10 minutes to prepare for.

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We also have this.

WasabiPoptart said:

But the weather's not bad.

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But we don't have this.

GasBandit said:

Texas! We've got big cities, and we've got not-so-big communities right outside big cities, in easy driving distance. The cost of living is nice, unemployment is low, the winters are mild but the summers are DEFINITELY NOT. A/C is a must, both for your car and your home, no two ways about it.

But in my experience, there are few places as easy and lucrative to "start over" than Texas. The closer you get to Austin, the more LGBTQ-friendly you'll find people to be, though the cost of living also increases accordingly (and exponentially). So there is that tradeoff. But nowhere near as bad as I'd expect Utah to have been. And there's nightlife, if you're into that sort of thing. There's also really good internet, if you'd rather stay home, like me.

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I agree with the above, with the caveat: Avoid houston. Every time I come home for a visit, I say to my myself "God, what a shithole".

I can't really recommend my town. It's got 1600 people in it

I can't really recommend the DC metro area. It's insanely expensive. When we first moved up here (Leesburg, VA), a 3 bedroom 974 sq foot apartment was $2000/month. My 4 bedroom 3000sq foot house in Texas was $950/month, and I was renting, so it was costing the owners less. It's hard to live up here without multiple incomes in the household, or a high paying government or tech job. That said, there's plenty of culture if you're into museums, history and stuff.

Tinwhistler said:

My 4 bedroom 3000sq foot house in Texas was $950/month, and I was renting, so it was costing the owners less.

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Where was this? Best I can find right now is like ~1200 sqft up by Sherman for 1,000 ish.

Philadelphia, a BRILLIANT bar scene, restaurants of all shapes and sizes, one guy on 20th and Sansom who makes REALLY good Gyro platters(but does not have forks, do not ask), great comic book stores, and more museums and libraries than you can shake a stick at! One of which has the Rocky statue.

Saskatoon - It's cold and we have weasels.

phil said:

Where was this? Best I can find right now is like ~1200 sqft up by Sherman for 1,000 ish.

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Denton. Of course, it was nearly 8 years ago. A quick scan of Zillow, Trulia and Rent.com shows prices that are $500-1000 higher now. You can still get 3bed/2bath 1200ish sq ft in the area for around 900 though.

Vancouver.

drawn_inward said:

Vancouver.

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Might as well just say Duluth. Almost the same, but no visa required.

--Patrick

No way. Vancouver is a sauna compared to Duluth.

ThatNickGuy said:

And um...there's also this super nerdy yoga guy that could show you around the city.

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I'm not so sneakily asking you guys about your cities so if I moved there I could meet you and could hopefully already have a friend where ever I moved. LETS BE FRIENDS!

blotsfan said:

Forgetting the touristy stuff, why Amazon HQ2 should be in Buffalo, NY why LittleKagsin should move to Buffalo, NY.

Cost of living is insanely cheap. I'm in a 2 bedroom apartment in a pretty popular part of town that costs $850 a month.

If you're a drinker, we have a great bar scene. Last call is 4am.

If you're the kind of person that likes eating food, we have phenomenal food. Obviously wings, but the nicer dining scene has expanded in the area as well.

If you like nature and hiking and whatnot, we've got a lot of great scenery around us. Niagara falls, of course, but the gorge just downstream is beautiful as well. Letchwork park is a bit of a drive from the city but its beautiful.

The local football team, the Buffalo Bills are currently riding a relatively long streak of making the playoffs and its been pretty fun.

As a city built for a much larger population, traffic is incredibly light around here. People (me included) will complain about traffic, but it doesn't hold a candle to what big cities get.

The economy in the area has expanded a lot, geico specifically has a huge call center here that apparently pays pretty well and hires people with 0 skills.

We're really close to Canada, so if you haven't been and want to check a country off your bucket list, there you go.

The only real downside is snow. We can get a lot of it. If you hate snow, this isn't a good place for you. Other than that, its a great city.

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Last call is at 4 am??? Holy shit!! I was hoping/thinking that where I moved to, I would try to get a job at a bar/restaurant - I'm still learning, but I can bar tend and waitress, I would enjoy a more social working atmosphere too. So, lots of food place and bars sounds like it would be pretty perfect!

PatrThom said:

Not even going to recommend anything (except for one wild stab) until some questions get answered.

-Are you interested in inside the US only? My assumption is that you are only looking for lower 48 but want to be sure.
-What is your preferred climate? Weather is going to be a BIG make-or-break if you can't abide heat/cold, or get depressed when it's too cloudy. Even something as dumb as the scenery will take a big hit, and determine whether you're surrounded by pine trees, poplars, or palms.
-Residence or regroup? Are you looking for a place to live, or do you just want somewhere you can stay 5 years or so and grind some XP and fame?
-School? Is being too close to/far away from a school/university going to make a difference?

I only really feel confident talking about the area where I've spent most of my life, which is between I-96 and I-80 (N of Fort Wayne/South Bend IN, Toledo OH, S of Grand Rapids/Lansing/Flint MI) but just as a wild guess, I would look at Sioux City, IA. I've never been there (and maybe @Dave can speak more to it?) so have no actual experience with it. The stats look good (climate, employment, population, access to state parks, waterfront, and airport), but it doesn't exactly scream "Bohemia." I look forward to hearing more about it from anyone who's lived (near?) there.

Also I re-upped my Facebook friend request since it looks like I got purged in the last round.

--Patrick

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I mean, yes inside the US please - though if the opportunity presented itself, moving to a foreign place would be pretty badass, but I'm not ready for that. And you're correct in your lower 48 assumptions.

Honestly, no preferred climate. I can do anything. Where I live now is pretty damn cold and we normally get feet and feet of snow - no major storm this year, but it'll come this month, I'm sure. It's regularly below zero, as far as temp goes, and then hangs out in the 90's in the summer. So. I'm used to all of it. I would like sunshine at some point, so I probably wouldn't do Seattle. :/ I like pine trees? But, really, the world is pretty and I don't care what kind of foliage I'm surrounded by.

I'm not looking for a permanent place, nope. Just a place I can start over, have some fun, meet some new people, have an adventure, and then move again in a few years.

Nope, no difference there. I'm not going to be going to school - if I was, I already have my two schools picked out and that would inform my living situation pretty much, but I'm not. I wouldn't mind a college town? I could meet people my age, well, sort of, I'm older, but still. It wouldn't bother me. And it would't bother me if there wasn't one nearby either.

Bubble181 said:

Yeah, do non-US areas need to apply? I have an apartment I'm renting out 2 hours from London, 3 hours from Paris, and 30 minutes from me :-P Brussels definitely has a lot going for it, and it's ownset of downsides...but it's definitely something very different from small-town USA.

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DONT TEMPT ME LIKE THIS!!

Yoshimickster said:

Philadelphia, a BRILLIANT bar scene, restaurants of all shapes and sizes, one guy on 20th and Sansom who makes REALLY good Gyro platters(but does not have forks, do not ask), great comic book stores, and more museums and libraries than you can shake a stick at! One of which has the Rocky statue.

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Philly was on my short list!

Huntsville,
It is a Micro-Plex dominated by two industries, Prison and Higher Education.
Nearly all cultural activities revolve around the college.
Very low cost of living. But it is changing now. Exxon opened an office about 45 miles from here, and home prices are starting to go up.
It is like a small Austin, a dash of weird in the middle of the Bible Belt.
Small town living just a short drive from the madness of one of the largest cities in the world.

LittleKagsin said:

I'm not so sneakily asking you guys about your cities so if I moved there I could meet you and could hopefully already have a friend where ever I moved. LETS BE FRIENDS!

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Oh, I wish I had the time. And that I were a go somewhere, do stuff, have fun - kinda guy.
But Grand Rapids, MI might still be worth checking out (art galleries and microbreweries galore!), unless you don't want to live so close to one of the most Conservative places in the USA...in which case Kalamazoo might be a better alternative (but there are more students in K'zoo, and therefore fewer waitstaff jobs).

sixpackshaker said:

Huntsville,
It is a Micro-Plex dominated by two industries, Prison and Higher Education.
Nearly all cultural activities revolve around the college.
Very low cost of living. But it is changing now. Exxon opened an office about 45 miles from here, and home prices are starting to go up.
It is like a small Austin, a dash of weird in the middle of the Bible Belt.
Small town living just a short drive from the madness of one of the largest cities in the world.

Click to expand...

Cranky spent a dozen years living there, if you want any details. Mostly what he remembers is aerospace.

--Patrick

LittleKagsin said:

Last call is at 4 am??? Holy shit!! I was hoping/thinking that where I moved to, I would try to get a job at a bar/restaurant - I'm still learning, but I can bar tend and waitress, I would enjoy a more social working atmosphere too. So, lots of food place and bars sounds like it would be pretty perfect!


DONT TEMPT ME LIKE THIS!!

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...Did you know most of Belgium doesn't have such a thing as "last call" laws? A bar or club closes when the owner wants to close and/or there's no reason to keep open (no patrons).

Mesa, Arizona. (What, you think I was going to curse you with MERRILL, WISCONSIN????)

PROS: Relatively cheap cost of living, good employment market, close enough to PHX for a nightlife scene, pretty livable if you have a car, mountains are wonderful. Lots of recreational opportunities, especially for hiking and climbing.

CONS: 100F+ temps pretty much from May to October. July can be horrid. Dust storms. A *lot* of older people, especially from October to April. The heat. Crime rate is hit-or-miss based on where you live. HOT. Some redneckish behavior. Not sure about LGBQT population. OMG The HEAT.

Bubble181 said:

...Did you know most of Belgium doesn't have such a thing as "last call" laws? A bar or club closes when the owner wants to close and/or there's no reason to keep open (no patrons).

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Gonna teach me the language? Cause....all I could do is smile and slide people a beer?

Also, you guys are the sweetest thinking about my LGBTQ status, it thrills me.

LittleKagsin said:

you guys are the sweetest thinking about my LGBTQ status, it thrills me.

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Well then you definitely need to take a second look at Grand Rapids.

...

You know, this must be (on a smaller scale) how it must feel for all those communities that are courting Amazon HQ2.

--Patrick

Santa Fe is a nice town. I think it has a bustling LB community. The food is great too. I don't know much about jobs or such, but I had a great time there.

drawn_inward said:

Santa Fe is a nice town. I think it has a bustling LB community. The food is great too. I don't know much about jobs or such, but I had a great time there.

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It's probably the most expensive place to live in New Mexico, which is a slight contradiction in terms, but you definitely get more bang for your buck in Albuquerque. Thing is, ABQ seems to be having a dramatic upswing in violent/property crime.

But the climate there is uh MAY zing. Comfy year round, pretty much.

LittleKagsin said:

Gonna teach me the language? Cause....all I could do is smile and slide people a beer?

Also, you guys are the sweetest thinking about my LGBTQ status, it thrills me.

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There's plenty of bartenders and barkeeps who only communicate in English...the European capital, after all. And there's for official languages and addressing people in the wrong one makes them all frowny.
Plus, huge expat LGBTQI scene here. The climate...is better than London. Heh.

PatrThom said:

Cranky spent a dozen years living there, if you want any details. Mostly what he remembers is aerospace.

--Patrick

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Different Huntsville.

That one is Space Camp, this one is Prison Camp.

Winnipeg.



The Simpsons love us!

Omaha is surprising to everyone who visits. You hear Omaha and you think either "shithole" or "old west". You'd be wrong. It's a vibrant and LGBTQ friend city. The last bar gig I had was doing comedy before a drag show. No, I was not one of the drag participants.

The unemployment rate here as well as the cost of living are some of the best in the country. Yeah, it's midwest so you get some weather, but nothing different than you'd get anywhere else like Michigan or Wisconsin. It's actually a pretty cool place, even if the bars do close at 2 am....

Raleigh, NC. Smack dab in the middle of a purple state. Weather is alright. We can get some hot summers with high humidity, but it snows maybe twice a year. Less than 3 hours to the Ocean, little over 3 hours to the mountains. Several comic shops, but one in particular that I would recommend. Cost of living is pretty low, not the lowest in the state, but not the highest either. If you want something more hipster, there's always Durham. It's like old and new Brooklyn sharing a space.

PatrThom said:

Well then you definitely need to take a second look at Grand Rapids.

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I forgot to tack on...and also Kalamazoo.

Basically it's really weird here in the western half of MI, since it's one of the strongest bastions of Conservatism while simultaneously being a hotbed of hipster and bohemian lifestyles.

--Patrick

Hang out with me north of San Francisco, before it gets real expensive. A friend says this part of CA has two seasons, summer and not-yet-summer (when it might rain). You get sun (and can still be cold) and redwood trees. If you have a car, you'll be within driving distance of SF or wine country (might take several years to recover) and can drive from the ocean to the mountains in the same day.

If you moved to Colorado, you could help me and my daughter figure out all the cosplay things we aren't great at, and we could all hang out in costume! (I know you have no interest in kids of your own, but my daughter is pretty nice around people that aren't me )

Dei said:

I know you have no interest in kids of your own

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Hey now, she has one! And it's kept in a very professional and highly rated facility with lots of experience!

Dei said:

If you moved to Colorado, you could help me and my daughter figure out all the cosplay things we aren't great at, and we could all hang out in costume! (I know you have no interest in kids of your own, but my daughter is pretty nice around people that aren't me )

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That sounds like a blast honestly.

Move to Michigan. It's cold, and there's not much to do, but if you play your cards right you can get pretend to be one of Steinman's kids for a while before he notices and live rent-free for a while anyway.

I really wanted to do a whole "Please come to Omaha for the Winter..." thing and see if she'd answer, "Hey, ramblin' boy why don't you settle down?"

But that's probably too old and obscure for someone her age.

Yeah these days who remembers Roger Whittaker?
EDIT: What? He's still alive?
EDIT2: Looks like the song's actually by Dave Loggins anyway, even though the Whittaker version is the one I know best.

--Patrick

For those confused:

Dave said:

For those confused:

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These versions might be more immediately recognizable to people under thirty.



--Patrick

Fakes. Not the original. Terrible.

Some of us who are a bit older (but not as old as @Dave) recognize the singer as half of Loggins/Messina.

Fun Size said:

Move to Michigan. It's cold, and there's not much to do, but if you play your cards right you can get pretend to be one of Steinman's kids for a while before he notices and live rent-free for a while anyway.

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Since one of his kids is my outsourced child, that feels a little taboo... BUT, I could go say hi at the very least.

LittleKagsin said:

Since one of his kids is my outsourced child, that feels a little taboo... BUT, I could go say hi at the very least.

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I’d offer my city, but it fails at all the criteria you’re looking for, and probably a whole bunch of unspoken criteria. But nearby Ann Arbor is a pretty nice place, very friendly in all the ways you’d need it to be, college town (university of Michigan, aka wolverines), and even hosts a few smaller fan conventions every year. Lots of job and education (washtenaw community college and eastern Michigan university are a bus ride away) opportunities, close to Detroit if you really need a big city, but pretty low cost of living compared to cities with similar amenities elsewhere. It’s also got at least one fitness company if you want to stay in that industry (nustep), but as a semi-warm tech-bed there’s lots of opportunities of various kinds for people at any level of education.

Your outsourced child made me pretty mad tonight, but he is such a sweetheart and still asked for song and prayer despite his and my anger at each other.

I had to make up a song to appease him, and he and his also-angry-but-for-another-unrelated-reason brother we’re both giggling by the time I left.

Man, it makes my heart ache thinking about how short a time I really have with them before they’ll leave. I can only hope to lay enough foundation that they’ll want to have a relationship with us when they’re older, regardless of how much our respective paths might diverge. My oldest is graduating high school this year, about the same time we have #10.

Love is hard.

If that doesn’t sell you on southeast michigan, I don’t know what will!

Just for the heck of it, here's my "pitch" for currently working but not my living city: Nashville, Tennessee.

The housing market in Nashville is a bit strange (they're saying it might have a bubble burst soon), but the surrounding suburbs look decent.

Nashville has the entire music thing for it (music row includes country (of course) but also has others), sports (Tennessee Titans, Nashville Predators, Nashville Sounds (minor league baseball), Nashville SC (soccer), racing (Nashville Fairgrounds), and were just awarded a new MLS team (starting around 2020)), has several historic battlefields from the Civil War in the area, and much more. Vanderbuilt University is here as well as many other colleges.

Jobs are pretty good - Franklin (suburb on the south side) has around a 2% unemployment rate and Nashville itself is one of the faster growing economies in the nation. The entire metropolitan area population in 2015 was 1.83 million.

Weather is good - not much in the way of snow (maybe an inch or two in a month) and if it does occur, it usually is gone within 24 hours as the temps are usually higher than freezing - summer average is around 90 degrees F.

Tennessee does not collect state income tax on wages. However, it does collect taxes on stocks and interest and has a 7% sales tax rate.

The only thing I'm not overly fond of (so far) is the traffic can really suck during rush hour(s) - if I didn't have traffic to deal with, my current drive from western Kentucky to a southern suburb would be 1.25 hours - my normal morning and night commute runs from 1.5 to 2 hours one way. Because of this, when my lease is up at the end of June, I'm going to be moving to this area to hopefully cut that down a metric ton, so it'll be "my city" at that point.

There has been a stabbing and a fire at my local Walmart. Fun coincidence, one of the stabbing victims was a firefighter. They cought both the stabber and arsonist though so really my town has one less of both if you think about it.

He’s not technically an arsonist, then. He just set a fire to bring people in for him to stab. That just makes him an aggravated assailant who likes to set fires.

—Patrick
(This is obviously hyperbole btw. Nobody should take it literally)

ncts_dodge_man said:

Just for the heck of it, here's my "pitch" for currently working but not my living city: Nashville, Tennessee.
<snip>
Weather is good - not much in the way of snow (maybe an inch or two in a month) and if it does occur, it usually is gone within 24 hours as the temps are usually higher than freezing - summer average is around 90 degrees F.
</snip>

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I am truly sorry, but I do NOT agree with this. It does get downright cold there in January and February. There is constant issues with ice (mostly how it freezes the trees and power lines) during the winter. And during the summer it gets hot and humid.

If it weren't for those factors, I'd be telling y'all about my new place in Music City next month.

PatrThom said:

He’s not technically an arsonist, then. He just set a fire to bring people in for him to stab. That just makes him an aggravated assailant who likes to set fires.

—Patrick
(This is obviously hyperbole btw. Nobody should take it literally)

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Sounds like there were two people. An arsonist and a stabber.

Chad Sexington said:

Sounds like there were two people. An arsonist and a stabber.

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Ah, I read it as a predator who set fires in order to stab people.
I didn't realize it was a team-up.

--Patrick

Columbia, SC!

Not only do we have sweltering hot & humid summers, winters that frequently never get below 60 degrees, and blatant racism, but also TONS OF HOMOPHOBIA!

South Carolina! "Y'all ain't from 'round here is ya?"

Yeah, it's fucking great here.

General Specific said:

Columbia, SC!

Not only do we have sweltering hot & humid summers, winters that frequently never get above 60 degrees, and blatant racism, but also TONS OF HOMOPHOBIA!

South Carolina! "Y'all ain't from 'round here is ya?"

Yeah, it's fucking great here.

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Dont try to hide it just because you're embarrassed. You do mustard-based BBQ sauce. Heathens.

stienman said:

If that doesn’t sell you on southeast michigan, I don’t know what will!

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I can help out. It's close enough for weekend getaways to Toronto, and we've got great reasons for Kags to come, including a massive Gay Pride festival.

jwhouk said:

I am truly sorry, but I do NOT agree with this. It does get downright cold there in January and February. There is constant issues with ice (mostly how it freezes the trees and power lines) during the winter. And during the summer it gets hot and humid.

If it weren't for those factors, I'd be telling y'all about my new place in Music City next month.

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We moved down here for the weather in the area - we were in cheesehead land ourselves, so the temps are quite a bit better (esp for my wife).

You're more than welcome to disagree - we're on the internet aren't we?

There are two primary reasons why it's AZ and not TN for me: family and ice. I's gots family in the AZ; I have tons of friends in TN, but very little family. And the ice part clinched it, especially after that one little time I found out how fun it was to drive around Murfreesboro with an inch of slush on the road.

Lake Jackson, tx we have a lot of trees, close to the beach, and more parks per people then anywhere else In Texas

blotsfan said:

Dont try to hide it just because you're embarrassed. You do mustard-based BBQ sauce. Heathens.

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I was born in Texas, that stuff is not BBQ.

General Specific said:

I was born in Texas, that stuff is not BBQ.

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Tasty is tasty. While you guys argue, I'm eating your share.

Well yeah you're from West Virginia. You're just glad to have any meat without tiremarks.

DarkAudit said:

Tasty is tasty. While you guys argue, I'm eating your share.

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I didn't say it wasn't good, just that it is not BBQ. They need to call it something else, like Pork Hash or something.

Real Barbecue is beef or pork with a spicy ketchup-based sauce.

No, vinegar-based sauce is not BBQ either, only ketchup. For anyone who doesn't believe, go to Applebee's or Chili's or any other mass market restaurant and ask them for barbecue. You will get ribs or a brisket with a ketchup-based sauce. Just make sure you then go find some run-down looking hole in the wall place to get the really good barbecue.

I'm not comfortable with having my definitions of food determined by applebees and chilis and I might be rethinking my entire stance on the issue.

It was merely an example. Obviously you don't go to any of those restaurants thinking you are going to get some good barbecue.

BBQ is not the sauce, it's the smoke.

General Specific said:

I didn't say it wasn't good, just that it is not BBQ. They need to call it something else, like Pork Hash or something.

Real Barbecue is beef or pork with a spicy ketchup-based sauce.

No, vinegar-based sauce is not BBQ either, only ketchup. For anyone who doesn't believe, go to Applebee's or Chili's or any other mass market restaurant and ask them for barbecue. You will get ribs or a brisket with a ketchup-based sauce. Just make sure you then go find some run-down looking hole in the wall place to get the really good barbecue.

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But, Texas is known for great smoked brisket. (Brisket + salt + pepper + smoke + heat) x time = BBQ; no sauce needed.
I will agree that bbq "sauce" can be formed from ketchup. Remember, that ketchup-based sauces are technically vinegar-based as well.

The meat should stand on its own, and be able to eat on it's own. Sauce is a condiment. And, it has to be tomato-based, spicy and not sweet like ketchup.

blotsfan said:

I'm not comfortable with having my definitions of food determined by applebees and chilis and I might be rethinking my entire stance on the issue.

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Well I certainly can’t argue with that first part. I mean, you even have to question the validity of a “Western style” omelette there.

—Patrick

drawn_inward said:

The meat should stand on its own, and be able to eat on it's own.

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This is key. Too many people (and cooks, restaurants) hide poor meat, or poorly cooked meat, by adding sauce. To a degree it helps, and in minor cases it can even save a meat. But if your meat requires sauce to taste good then you shouldn't even be arguing about sauce to start with.

stienman said:

This is key. Too many people (and cooks, restaurants) hide poor meat, or poorly cooked meat, by adding sauce. To a degree it helps, and in minor cases it can even save a meat. But if your meat requires sauce to taste good then you shouldn't even be arguing about sauce to start with.

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cf. A-1.

—Patrick

drawn_inward said:

But, Texas is known for great smoked brisket. (Brisket + salt + pepper + smoke + heat) x time = BBQ; no sauce needed.
I will agree that bbq "sauce" can be formed from ketchup. Remember, that ketchup-based sauces are technically vinegar-based as well.

The meat should stand on its own, and be able to eat on it's own. Sauce is a condiment. And, it has to be tomato-based, spicy and not sweet like ketchup.

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Fair enough.

I think we could get into a whole series of discussions on this though, because a lot of people use sauces after the meat is cooked, whereas many sauces are meant to be used as marinades, or during cooking. Vinegar based sauces, for instance, used prior to cooking can act as a tenderizer in addition to lending flavor, and they can improve the texture of the meat. Add that same vinegar based sauce after cooking, though, and it might be overpowering.

You need a lot of vinegar (relatively) prior to cooking, and little to none after, but some sauces try to be both a marinade and a condiment, which means there are compromises, and it's not great for either purpose.

Hang on, wasn't this thread about helping Kags find a new city to move to?

Uhhh... sorry.

Maybe she can also use our commentary as a way to weed out the cities that breed overbearing windbags?

—Patrick

I'm sorry, excuse me.

You are in the WRONG FUCKING PLACE to argue about BBQ.

Because it is ALL given to us by God and should ALL be appreciated in it's own way. If you know nothing about me, learn this, I love BBQ. It is my favorite food group on this planet and EVERY TYPE is wonderful. I have a BBQ road trip mapped out for myself, so I can eat my way through the US of A. Don't even. I will fight you all about my love of BBQ and the merits of every subcategory. I know it all and I love it all.

You're welcome to disagree and gtfo.

LittleKagsin said:

I'm sorry, excuse me.

You are in the WRONG FUCKING PLACE to argue about BBQ.

Because it is ALL given to us by God and should ALL be appreciated in it's own way. If you know nothing about me, learn this, I love BBQ. It is my favorite food group on this planet and EVERY TYPE is wonderful. I have a BBQ road trip mapped out for myself, so I can eat my way through the US of A. Don't even. I will fight you all about my love of BBQ and the merits of every subcategory. I know it all and I love it all.

You're welcome to disagree and gtfo.

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My "expertise" is in Missouri so I'd go Oklahoma Joes in KC and Pappys in St Louis. They aren't original suggestions but they're well-known for a reason.

And if you get hungry on the drive between the two and go to my old stomping grounds of Columbia, there's a place called Shotgun Petes that's absolutely delicious as well.

LittleKagsin said:

I'm sorry, excuse me.

You are in the WRONG FUCKING PLACE to argue about BBQ.

Because it is ALL given to us by God and should ALL be appreciated in it's own way. If you know nothing about me, learn this, I love BBQ. It is my favorite food group on this planet and EVERY TYPE is wonderful. I have a BBQ road trip mapped out for myself, so I can eat my way through the US of A. Don't even. I will fight you all about my love of BBQ and the merits of every subcategory. I know it all and I love it all.

You're welcome to disagree and gtfo.

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Then you have to stop in Huntsville.

If you do make it out to Michigan, Boneheads BBQ is worth a visit. Lots of michigan halforumites to visit, to boot!

I've only been following this thread peripherally because I would not recommend the NYC/North Jersey area for someone who's never lived in a big city before, but

1) a BBQ-based road trip sounds deliciously amazing, and if you ever do make this journey, blog it in depth, and

2)I have to agree with @Yoshimickster that Philadelphia is a good East Coast starter city. The short version: it has access to most things out of NYC or Washington DC, but it isn't close to as expensive or hectic as either city. It's got a big LGBTQ scene and is very artist-friendly.

Celt Z said:

I've only been following this thread peripherally because I would not recommend the NYC/North Jersey area for someone who's never lived in a big city before, but

1) a BBQ-based road trip sounds deliciously amazing, and if you ever do make this journey, blog it in depth, and

2)I have to agree with @Yoshimickster that Philadelphia is a good East Coast starter city. The short version: it has access to most things out of NYC or Washington DC, but it isn't close to as expensive or hectic as either city. It's got a big LGBTQ scene and is very artist-friendly.

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1) I'm so excited about it, honestly. I've been wanting to do it for years, and I will absolutely do an in depth blog about it whenever I do. I will share happily!

2) Philly is on my short list! It sounds pretty nice and the location sounds relatively ideal as well.

When my coworkers who won't shut up about where they've been eating start talking about BBQ, the one place they consistently won't shut up about is Slows BBQ in Detroit. There are more of them around, but the one they won't shut up about most is the one in Detroit.

--Patrick

LittleKagsin said:

You're welcome to disagree and gtfo.

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Okay I hit the disagree rating but I can't find the gtfo one. I think @GasBandit has been slacking on adding it.

Because I live in a cultural melting pot, many BBQ places around here generally serve several different regional styles. I tend to like them all, depending on what I'm in the mood for. But I'm not sure I'll ever get over yellow-colored bbq.

Beef ribs in molasses. Mmmmmmhmmm.

GasBandit said:

Beef ribs in molasses. Mmmmmmhmmm.

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Should you be reading threads like this in your condition? It seems kinda cruel.

Celt Z said:

Should you be reading threads like this in your condition? It seems kinda cruel.

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My grandfather was eating sausage and stew in front of me all week.

Let me tell you, in about 3 weeks? When my stomach can tolerate solid food? I'm going to go full-on carnivogeddon murdersaurus. For about 3 bites anyway.

It's the return of the ravenous, unthinking eat-beast.

GasBandit said:

My grandfather was eating sausage and stew in front of me all week.

Let me tell you, in about 3 weeks? When my stomach can tolerate solid food? I'm going to go full-on carnivogeddon murdersaurus. For about 3 bites anyway.

It's the return of the ravenous, unthinking eat-beast.

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Okay, so I think you should cross off whatever city this takes place in from your list of possibilities, Kags.

I dunno, I bet she could convince Gas to buy a huge platter of BBQ and she'd get to eat all but 3 bites of it.

blotsfan said:

I dunno, I bet she could convince Gas to buy a huge platter of BBQ and she'd get to eat all but 3 bites of it.

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YES PLEASE.

Ahem. @GasBandit?

LittleKagsin said:

YES PLEASE.

Ahem. @GasBandit?

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It's a date. C'mon down to Texas in 3 weeks or so, we'll go to C&J's, and I'll get you whatever you want as long as I get a bite of it.

GasBandit said:

It's the return of the ravenous, unthinking eat-beast.

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...except it'll be like Daffy at the end of getting zapped by that genie.

--Patrick

blotsfan said:

And if you get hungry on the drive between the two and go to my old stomping grounds of Columbia, there's a place called Shotgun Petes that's absolutely delicious as well.

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I just found out shotgun petes closed last fall. I'm heartbroken.