Pc Game Piracy - Opinions.

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chakz

Soo After reading tycho's blog I got curious about what people's feelings on PC piracy. Music piracy seems different because it is, at least, easier to rationalize, but Video game piracy seems to be more destructive. So halforum, whats your opinion? I have to say, I used to partake but now, I am not a fan.

edit: Just realized, I probably should have posted this in the video games section.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I don't because if I wrote a book I'd want the money from people buying it. I feel that software writers probably feel the same. If I want to continue seeing quality products out there then it's in my best interest to purchase whatever I use.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

It's stealing. It is literally taking something without paying for it. There is nothing different between it and downloading an album, a TV show, a movie, a book, or a program.
 
E

elph

I will pirate a game in the terms of demoing it. If the game is on my system for longer then a day or 2, I will purchase it. I will typically delete it and wait until it goes down to a price I find reasonable though.

I have run into too many situations in which games either didn't run on my system (or run well enough to be playable) and my system meet or beat by a step or two all the 'recommended requirements'. Games that didn't live up to the hype (or come close - Spore for example).

So yes, I will pirate a game in terms of demo usage and benchmarking.
 
S

SeraRelm

I get to play games for free anyway.:noidea:

Additionally, the only time I've "pirated" is if I already own(ed) the game. (NES/SNES/PC games with damaged disks)
 
Adam

Adam

General Specific said:
I worked at a Gamestop for 3 years. I take a dim view of software piracy as a result.
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Funny, I have a dim view of Gamestop ;)

In all seriousness, Blizzard has ruined PC gaming for me, so I can't even remember the last time I bought OR downloaded a game because WoW keeps me playing.

Console gaming I have to purchase the game to play it (unmodded PS3) so *shrug*.
 
Seraphyn

Seraphyn

I've pirated a lot, most games I ended up buying, some I did not. While it's harmfull, I think it's overall effect is somewhat exaggerated. For small developers however, it can really destroy them.

So if you pirate, please just pirate stuff from the big dogs, not the little guy.
 
T

Twitch

elph said:
I will pirate a game in the terms of demoing it. If the game is on my system for longer then a day or 2, I will purchase it. I will typically delete it and wait until it goes down to a price I find reasonable though.

I have run into too many situations in which games either didn't run on my system (or run well enough to be playable) and my system meet or beat by a step or two all the 'recommended requirements'. Games that didn't live up to the hype (or come close - Spore for example).

So yes, I will pirate a game in terms of demo usage and benchmarking.
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I do the same thing, but rather than a few days I keep one pirated title on my computer and will play it until I decide it's worth purchasing or I feel I need to buy it because of the amount of time I've owned it. It's saved me alot of money in the case of some games and I wish I did this back when Spore came out...
 
G

GeneralOrder24

I will, on occasion, "acquire" the PC version of a console game I bought to poke around with cheat/noclip codes. It's not that these games get played through completley, I just want to see what's behind the curtain.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I know a few too many folks in the industry (and have been a member occasionally myself) to agree with piracy of games pretty much ever. It feels like stealing from your best friend.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

But, if you're not physically stealing anything, it's not stealing....

That's the rationale I hear most often, anyway.

BTW, I think it's a retarded rationale.
 
Piotyr

Piotyr

It's stealing. Rationalize it all you want by pretending it's not money they were getting anyway, or that you are instituting your own "try before you buy" policy, or that somehow taking data/information without paying is some kind of God-given right, but it's stealing.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

The only games that I've pirated were ones that I could no longer buy in the store. Then it is mostly just borrowing a friend's old games. I've never bit-torrented a damn thing.
 
E

elph

Piotyr said:
It's stealing. Rationalize it all you want by pretending it's not money they were getting anyway, or that you are instituting your own "try before you buy" policy, or that somehow taking data/information without paying is some kind of God-given right, but it's stealing.
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My view is it's also stealing in when a company misrepresents it's product in terms of system requirements, features, or scope of product. Rationalize it all they want, they're still asking for my money to cover their costs. They're supposed to be selling an item of entertainment, if I don't find it entertaining, I won't buy it. If it doesn't work on my machine, I won't buy it. However, I also will not keep it on my machine for that long.

Besides, who's to say my religion isn't the kind that encourages the freedom of data/information? In that case, it is my god given right. :)

Here's how it goes in my scale.

If it's a single player game, I will check to see how well it runs. If it runs well and it's still a title that interests me (usually by going through tutorials or the first 'level' or such) I will remove the game from my system, to purchase it when I see it at a price point I find reasonable. They're still getting the sale if they've made a product I found worth it.

If it's a multiplayer game (or has multiplayer features), I will likely buy it outright once I see how well it runs on my system based to how many of my gamer friends have also purchased it, because if none of them did, then it wouldn't get played anyway and I'd have no need to buy it.

It's a fair system in my mind because if I were to purchase any other product (non IP speaking), I would have the right to return it based on my satisfaction of services. If I bought a TV (or other electronic device, or many other things) and it didn't quite live up to expectations, I'm free to return it and get my money back. That is not the case for most IP topics.

I can return a board game if it didn't live up to my expectations, I should also be able to return software under the same conditions. However, this isn't the reality we live in. The reality we live in is that software companies can do what they want and cry victim when they release shit product. Software companies know they have you by the balls once you unwrap that box. Your money's spent and it's over and done.

I no longer live under the ideal of "Well, they fooled me this time. I just won't buy their product next time." I feel my method is a bit better. I buy about the same amount of software as I did before (slightly less on average), I'm just happier with purchases now.
 
T

ThatNickGuy

I won't. Partly because most of the current games won't on my laptop, partly because I don't really believe in pirating in general and partly because if I want a game badly enough, it's worth paying money for it.

That said, I DO download either abandonware (old adventure PC games, for example, that are no longer available) or games that are unavailble, such as NES and SNES emmulators. I still get the itch to play Final Fantasy IV, but I'm not going to buy a DS or something just for one game. If I want to play the original game, I'll download it.

As far as other forms of piracy, I draw the line with movies that I can't find (Time Bandits). I won't download it if it's something I can buy in a store. TV shows, though, are different. I feel downloading them is honestly no different than getting a friend to tape for you back in the day.
 
Espy

Espy

I have pirated a game or two, once upon a time. However, those games where games I owned copies of but could not find the disks. I would feel no issues with pirating windows XP since I own a copy but thanks to Dell I can't install it on anything but a Dell.

All in all, pirating it still stealing no matter how hard you justify it, with a few minor exceptions.
 
G

GeneralOrder24

Espy said:
I have pirated a game or two, once upon a time. However, those games where games I owned copies of but could not find the disks. I would feel no issues with pirating windows XP since I own a copy but thanks to Dell I can't install it on anything but a Dell.
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That'd sounds like an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) copy of windows. It's illegal to use one of those on any system except the one it was purchased for, because OEM copies are sold to the manufacturer at a reduced price, because they are meant ONLY for that machine.

If you went out and bought a box of windows, non-oem, you'd be able to move it to another PC so long as the copy on the previous machine has been removed.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Allen said:
if it's a niche title that won't be seeing a release in the American market
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sixpackshaker said:
The only games that I've pirated were ones that I could no longer buy in the store.
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These are the only two reasons I can honestly say are justifiable. If there is no reasonable access (I.E. If you can't buy it) then it's a squarely in the grey area. That being said, Direct Download options like the Virtual Console and Direct2Drive/Steam have been allowing more devs to release niche titles and older, out of print classics. The days when you could justify Piracy are coming to an end.
 
Adam

Adam

elph said:
I can return a board game if it didn't live up to my expectations, I should also be able to return software under the same conditions. However, this isn't the reality we live in. The reality we live in is that software companies can do what they want and cry victim when they release shit product. Software companies know they have you by the balls once you unwrap that box. Your money's spent and it's over and done.
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There's many other non-IP examples of this.

For example:

Food. Once you eat it, you can't return it.
Fireworks. Once you use them, you can't return them.
Gas. Once you use it, you can't return it.
Prostitutes don't let you get your money back (apparently?)

The onus here is on the consumer to inform themselves about their purchase before buying. Even the whole "try before you buy" thing is played out with the ready access to demos. Lord knows I've bought enough PC Gamer mags for their demo disks.
 
T

Twitch

Adammon;283857][quote=elph said:
I can return a board game if it didn't live up to my expectations, I should also be able to return software under the same conditions. However, this isn't the reality we live in. The reality we live in is that software companies can do what they want and cry victim when they release shit product. Software companies know they have you by the balls once you unwrap that box. Your money's spent and it's over and done.
Click to expand...
There's many other non-IP examples of this.

For example:

Food. Once you eat it, you can't return it.
Fireworks. Once you use them, you can't return them.
Gas. Once you use it, you can't return it.
Prostitutes don't let you get your money back (apparently?)

The onus here is on the consumer to inform themselves about their purchase before buying. Even the whole "try before you buy" thing is played out with the ready access to demos. Lord knows I've bought enough PC Gamer mags for their demo disks.[/QUOTE]
Do you put any of the things you just listed in the same category as board games, video games, movies, music, etc?
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Twitch;283858][quote=Adammon;283857][quote=elph said:
I can return a board game if it didn't live up to my expectations, I should also be able to return software under the same conditions. However, this isn't the reality we live in. The reality we live in is that software companies can do what they want and cry victim when they release shit product. Software companies know they have you by the balls once you unwrap that box. Your money's spent and it's over and done.
Click to expand...
There's many other non-IP examples of this.

For example:

Food. Once you eat it, you can't return it.
Fireworks. Once you use them, you can't return them.
Gas. Once you use it, you can't return it.
Prostitutes don't let you get your money back (apparently?)

The onus here is on the consumer to inform themselves about their purchase before buying. Even the whole "try before you buy" thing is played out with the ready access to demos. Lord knows I've bought enough PC Gamer mags for their demo disks.[/quote]
Do you put any of the things you just listed in the same category as board games, video games, movies, music, etc?[/QUOTE]

Fireworks and prostitution are both in the same category. Entertainment.
 
G

GeneralOrder24

Adammon;283857][quote=elph said:
I can return a board game if it didn't live up to my expectations, I should also be able to return software under the same conditions. However, this isn't the reality we live in. The reality we live in is that software companies can do what they want and cry victim when they release shit product. Software companies know they have you by the balls once you unwrap that box. Your money's spent and it's over and done.
Click to expand...
There's many other non-IP examples of this.

For example:

Food. Once you eat it, you can't return it.
Fireworks. Once you use them, you can't return them.
Gas. Once you use it, you can't return it.
Prostitutes don't let you get your money back (apparently?)

The onus here is on the consumer to inform themselves about their purchase before buying. Even the whole "try before you buy" thing is played out with the ready access to demos. Lord knows I've bought enough PC Gamer mags for their demo disks.[/QUOTE]

Two things:

One: Food, and fireworks can be returned once used/bitten into, so long as you can prove there was something wrong with them. If you used/ate it all, obviously there's nothing wrong. I guarantee if you got a tank of gas that for some reason was faulty, you could get a refund. Prostitution is illegal, so is out of the question.

Two: Yes! Demos are a GREAT way to try a game....when they exist. What happens when they don't? I've been burned by many a game sounding great with no demo that turns out to be a shitfest. Not that I download a game to try it, it's hardly worth the X hour download wait, plus everyone's always bitchin' about crack glitches, so how's it a good test?
 
Frank

Frank

PC piracy has all but ruined PC gaming as we know it. Now, PC gamers are lucky to get a sub par port of a franchise 5 months after it's been released to consoles if at all. The I just wanted to try it first excuse is just that, an excuse. I'm guessing that 99/100 you never end up buying the game but that one time you do justifies the other 99 times you basically stole it in your eyes.
 
E

elph

You can return food. I've gotten restaurant to refund my meal because the food wasn't up to par. You can return food at grocery stores if it's gone bad. To use food as an example, is a poor one, just as trying to compare everything as the same. I don't buy fireworks, but I know places you can return them (obviously not once they're used). Consumables are a terrible form of example in this kind of discussion. Entertainment media is meant to entertain. When someone downloads anything, it is not consumed as a meal, gas, or fireworks.

I can typically listen to samples of music before I buy a CD (without resorting to piracy), enough to know if it's worth my full purchase. I can see a movie before I purchase a DVD (either by theater or renting it for a cheap cost). I can watch TV shows on TV or through other legal free methods before deciding if I want to buy the full season of a show.

So sticking with forms of entertainment (movies, TV, music, games). I have cheap alternatives before purchase to decide on if it's worth my money. Also, the purchase isn't near the price of a game. Average CD cost is $15, average movie is the same $15, while the average cost of a PC game is $50. Most companies do not give free demos anymore that tell me if the software is going to run on my machine the way they claim, much less if it's going to be what they're advertising. For that, it's up to me to read tons of reviews (which if I were to 'charge' for my time to research their product is even more money I'm spending) to see if it's what they say it is.

The worries are also different. I've had many games not run as advertised (Age of Conan for example) when my system meet or beat the 'recommended' settings. That's $50 before I even got into playing the game gone. There were no demos to speak of. I've had this run in so often, that I really do not see a problem with it. If it's not to my liking, I do not keep it and I would not have bought it to begin with. If it is to my liking, I will purchase it legally when the price goes to a reasonable rate. With a CD, or DVD, I have no doubt that it will work on my machines.
 
T

Twitch

Frankie said:
PC piracy has all but ruined PC gaming as we know it. Now, PC gamers are lucky to get a sub par port of a franchise 5 months after it's been released to consoles if at all. The I just wanted to try it first excuse is just that, an excuse. I'm guessing that 99/100 you never end up buying the game but that one time you do justifies the other 99 times you basically stole it in your eyes.
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Well I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't because I purchase maybe 80% of what I pirate and the other 20 are truly terrible. Like I said, it's worth it if I don't have to buy a SPORE again.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

piracy is not the same as stealing.
If it was, it would carry the same criminal penalty.

Fact of the matter is, the law considers most cases of piracy (the kind we're talking about) to be civil matters and not criminal matters at all.
 
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