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I hate Windows 10

#1

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I purposely don't update, do everything to stop updates.

This morning, it said "YOU MUST" essentially. I let it happen, hated everything it changed, and so set it back to the previous version. I thought that would be enough.
But now it's giving me the same message as this morning. So it's insisting on this update. It suggests it won't do it unless it restarts, but sometimes after putting it to sleep, it restarts on its own.

What can I do to stop updates forever?


#2

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

I purposely don't update, do everything to stop updates.

This morning, it said "YOU MUST" essentially. I let it happen, hated everything it changed, and so set it back to the previous version. I thought that would be enough.
But now it's giving me the same message as this morning. So it's insisting on this update. It suggests it won't do it unless it restarts, but sometimes after putting it to sleep, it restarts on its own.

What can I do to stop updates forever?
Depending on what version you are on, you may be able to set your internet connection to metered. That will stop it from automatically downloading the updates. Outside of that, Microsoft says "fuck you we say when you update" unless you drop $200 to buy the professional license


#3

Bubble181

Bubble181

What he said. Win10 is free...as long as you agree to always update. It's good because at least people get security patches on time. It's bad because...well, everything else.


#4

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Depending on what version you are on, you may be able to set your internet connection to metered. That will stop it from automatically downloading the updates. Outside of that, Microsoft says "fuck you we say when you update" unless you drop $200 to buy the professional license
I have mine metered.

It's trying to install the April 2018 one; I just hate it.


#5

figmentPez

figmentPez

What about it do you hate? It might be possible to have the update, but reconfigure it to behave more like you want.


#6

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

What about it do you hate? It might be possible to have the update, but reconfigure it to behave more like you want.
It makes my audio and airplane mode buttons stop working. It turns Cortana back on. It changes visual elements I don't have names for. It modifies theme elements for no apparent reason. It switches privacy settings so Microsoft can put its dirty fingers into my computer.

I can fix most of this but I shouldn't have to. It's my computer, I'm not tech illiterate. I can make these decisions for myself.

But from what I'm learning here, the goal is to inconvenience me as much as possible until I shell out $200.


#7

jwhouk

jwhouk



#8

PatrThom

PatrThom

the goal is to inconvenience me as much as possible until I shell out $200.
In reality, the goal is to force people who normally procrastinate indefinitely about updating their computers to "get their shots," essentially nanny state-ing herd immunity for worms, viruses, etc. for as long as their hardware configuration is supported. Microsoft is more forgiving for the professional version because the assumption is that your IT dept will ensure you get your required updates. As for support:

WinX.png


[source for above image]

...in other words, it's a sort of "For your own good" on the part of Microsoft, but yes, it means that people who are clinging to a particular version (for whatever reason) are eventually going to get left behind. Also, hardware/software manufacturers are unlikely to ensure compatibility with older versions of WinX, so you will always eventually reach a point where you either MUST update or else be forced to stick with legacy versions of your favorite app or whatever.

Just be careful with this (and other, similar) tools, as they frequently allow you access to options that turn off modules you might actually need. Keep track of what you change in case you need to revert it.

--Patrick


#9

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

In reality, the goal is to force people who normally procrastinate indefinitely about updating their computers to "get their shots," essentially nanny state-ing herd immunity for worms, viruses, etc. for as long as their hardware configuration is supported. Microsoft is more forgiving for the professional version because the assumption is that your IT dept will ensure you get your required updates. As for support:

View attachment 31585

[source for above image]

...in other words, it's a sort of "For your own good" on the part of Microsoft, but yes, it means that people who are clinging to a particular version (for whatever reason) are eventually going to get left behind. Also, hardware/software manufacturers are unlikely to ensure compatibility with older versions of WinX, so you will always eventually reach a point where you either MUST update or else be forced to stick with legacy versions of your favorite app or whatever.


Just be careful with this (and other, similar) tools, as they frequently allow you access to options that turn off modules you might actually need. Keep track of what you change in case you need to revert it.

--Patrick

The truly unfortunate thing is that the Microsoft nanny-state is terrible at what they do. The updates are almost always filled with bloatware, microsoft extras that they want to worm onto your machine, or sometimes are just the wrong software. I once spent 30 minutes fighting with windows because it kept automatically downloading THE WRONG DRIVERS to one specialized peripheral after I would load the correct, most recent, straight from the manufacturer drivers for it, only to have it work briefly before windows said "oh lemme update that for you."

The nanny-state is bloated and not always in our best interest. It's nothing more than Microsoft tyranny, I should be able to do with my system wh- wait, did I just become libertarian? No one tell @GasBandit


#10

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

The nanny-state is bloated and not always in our best interest. It's nothing more than Microsoft tyranny, I should be able to do with my system wh- wait, did I just become libertarian? No one tell @GasBandit
Where else you gonna go? Apple, with their thousand dollar monitor stands? Linux, where they're trying to ram systemd down everyone's throat?

The only question is whose yoke you're gonna be tied to.


#11

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I left the computer unplugged and in airplane mode last night and when I woke it up this morning, the updater got an error message and went away.

I guess I'll just have to leave it this way, which is fine since my phone is my internet mostly.


#12

jwhouk

jwhouk

Microsoft, Apple, Linux. And Linux is beholden to both Bill and Steve - even more to Steve. Choose wisely.


#13

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Microsoft, Apple, Linux. And Linux is beholden to both Bill and Steve - even more to Steve. Choose wisely.
Linux and AppleOS are both beholden to Ken Thompson, since both were based on Unix


#14

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Linux and AppleOS are both beholden to Ken Thompson, since both were based on Unix
Linux is more beholden to Lennart Poettering these days, thanks to Pulse Audio and systemd. Which makes him nearly as hated as Bill.


#15

PatrThom

PatrThom

The truly unfortunate thing is that the Microsoft nanny-state is terrible at what they do.
Where else you gonna go? Apple, with their thousand dollar monitor stands? Linux, where they're trying to ram systemd down everyone's throat?

The only question is whose yoke you're gonna be tied to.
Microsoft: "Logic clearly dictates the needs of the many* outweigh the needs of the few. (Or the one)"
Apple: "You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. This is not logical, but it is often true.”
Linux: (re: systemd) "If there are self-made purgatories, then we all have to live in them."

--Patrick
*And the Microsoft...


#16

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Never mind.

Windows was like "Oops : ( you have to restart! Darn!" So it forcibly crashed my computer and made it restart, so now the update's installed again, and Cortana is back, and my fonts look weird, and on and on.

Sigh.


#17

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Never mind.

Windows was like "Oops : ( you have to restart! Darn!" So it forcibly crashed my computer and made it restart, so now the update's installed again, and Cortana is back, and my fonts look weird, and on and on.

Sigh.
And you're still at least one major update behind.


#18

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

And you're still at least one major update behind.
Maybe that update will make it so Times New Roman doesn't look all screwed up in Microsoft Word, which this update has caused.


#19

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Maybe that update will make it so Times New Roman doesn't look all screwed up in Microsoft Word, which this update has caused.
I don't know about that, but the latest one somehow fixed the Microsoft Store app that somehow broke a couple weeks after I installed the system.


#20

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I don't know about that, but the latest one somehow fixed the Microsoft Store app that somehow broke a couple weeks after I installed the system.
Then there's a chance!


#21

figmentPez

figmentPez

Maybe that update will make it so Times New Roman doesn't look all screwed up in Microsoft Word, which this update has caused.
Hmm, I wonder if running the ClearType Text Tuner would help.

It's also likely that your video card drivers got reverted to an old version.


#22

jwhouk

jwhouk

What I'm not quite understanding is why I have Version 1803 Build 17134.799 of 10 at the moment...


#23

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Hmm, I wonder if running the ClearType Text Tuner would help.

It's also likely that your video card drivers got reverted to an old version.
I updated the video drivers; didn't help.
Zooming in to 120% helps a bit, but I'll try ClearType sometime this week.


#24

PatrThom

PatrThom

I believe that Cortana gets cut back somewhat in the next update as well.

--Patrick


#25

Eriol

Eriol

Linux, where they're trying to ram systemd down everyone's throat?
I do NOT understand the hate for systemd. I've tried to look into why it's so hated, and my analysis basically came down to "I'm upset that my scripts that I've been tweaking for 10 (or 20, or 30) years I can't tweak anymore because it's not looking for that obscure .config file in that weird 3-letter-named 5-deep subdirectory anymore! How can anybody understand this weird new configuration???"

It's an actual system layer that you can rely on for a number of normal low-level system services. Like logging. And querying if things are running. Yes pretty much everything has to hook in to it in SOME way. But it's a move in the right direction, rather than the bailing-wire and twine that has usually been keeping Linux/Unix systems "together" for the last 40+ years.

But this is from somebody outside the ecosystem looking in. Please give a better explanation that doesn't portray the systemd people (or anybody who dares associate with them) into The Syndicate or something.


#26

PatrThom

PatrThom

Please give a better explanation that doesn't portray the systemd people (or anybody who dares associate with them) into The Syndicate or something.
My assumption is that since systemd might as well be middleware, anyone who uses it is effectively creating dependencies against code over which they have no control, and which might later come back to bite them if systemd changes enough to throw off their code, sort of like .Net or Java or your garden variety firmware blob.

—Patrick


#27

Zappit

Zappit

I liked when I updated and my antivirus disappeared. Just fucking disappeared. That was fun.


#28

PatrThom

PatrThom

Every night at exactly midnight, my computer will switch to the desktop. Doesn't matter if I'm in a game in a battle, surfing the web, or what, but as soon as the clock hits 0:00, BOOP -- hello, desktop.

--Patrick


#29

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Every night at exactly midnight, my computer will switch to the desktop. Doesn't matter if I'm in a game in a battle, surfing the web, or what, but as soon as the clock hits 0:00, BOOP -- hello, desktop.

--Patrick
And that's when you notice the icon that was never there before...


#30

PatrThom

PatrThom

And that's when you notice the icon that was never there before...
There never was. it would just change focus. Stupid. MEANwhile...

Windows Defender now detects changing HOSTS file to block Microsoft telemetry sites, flags doing so as malware.

Can probably still sinkhole them at the router level, but still... not cool, Microsoft.

—Patrick


#31

Gared

Gared

Fuckin' Microsoft.


#32

PatrThom

PatrThom

Fuckin' Microsoft.
Microsoft REALLY wants you to move to Windows 10:

So okay, the official end date for Win7 was in Jan 2020, but Win8.1 is still supposed to be supported through Jan 2023. And now you’re telling me vendors won’t be able to update their Win7/Win8 drivers after July 2021? Come on, Microsoft...

—Patrick


#33

Gared

Gared

My next computer will be an Apple.


#34

PatrThom

PatrThom

My next computer will be an Apple.
That seems...extreme.

—Patrick


#35

GasBandit

GasBandit

I'm starting to think maybe I won't be giving up so much by going to linux, myself. I barely game anymore as it is.


#36

PatrThom

PatrThom

Nothing saying you can't have a *nix box warmed and ready, just in case.

--Patrick


#37

blotsfan

blotsfan

Ok I have my complaints with Windows 10, but I can't understand the mindset of someone avoiding it by sticking with Windows 8.


#38

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Ok I have my complaints with Windows 10, but I can't understand the mindset of someone avoiding it by sticking with Windows 8.
Insert Will Smith meme pointing at @GasBandit here.

(I know he's using 7, but you get my point.)


#39

blotsfan

blotsfan

Windows 7 and Windows 8 are very different.


#40

GasBandit

GasBandit

Insert Will Smith meme pointing at @GasBandit here.

(I know he's using 7, but you get my point.)
I know a good number of people still on 7.

Nobody wants to stay on 8. They either go back to 7, or up to 10.


#41

PatrThom

PatrThom

I can't understand the mindset of someone avoiding it by sticking with Windows 8.
I have a PC that can run Win8 but can't (officially) run WinX.
I might try to make it dual-boot, but there are no guarantees.

--Patrick


#42

PatrThom

PatrThom

Windows 10 just decided to update my graphics driver.
...with a version that is incompatible with the interface.
...while I was playing a video game.
...during what I have designated as "active hours."
I can think of very few ways Windows could have screwed this up worse.
(Also update to the previous post -- I did make it dual-boot 8/X)

--Patrick


#43

PatrThom

PatrThom

Looks like people may hate WinXI (I shall henceforth pronounce it as "Winksy") even more than they do X.

--Patrick


#44

blotsfan

blotsfan

I don't care that they skipped Windows 9. I know better than to do an even number windows.


#45

GasBandit

GasBandit

Still sittin here enjoying Windows 7.

Tolerating Windows 10 on my work PC.

Pitying the poor coworkers whose PCs are now coming with windows 11 and they can't figure out how to static out their own IP addresses because all the shit got moved around AGAIN.


#46

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Still sittin here enjoying Windows 7.

Tolerating Windows 10 on my work PC.

Pitying the poor coworkers whose PCs are now coming with windows 11 and they can't figure out how to static out their own IP addresses because all the shit got moved around AGAIN.
Not having Directx12 access would be really painful for me.


#47

GasBandit

GasBandit

Not having Directx12 access would be really painful for me.
What games require DX12?


#48

PatrThom

PatrThom

What games require DX12?
Cyberpunk 2077 comes to mind.
Not having Directx12 access would be really painful for me.
Microsoft did release a version of DX12 for Win7x64 SP1. It does have a few limitations, though.

--Patrick


#49

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

What games require DX12?
1649059242613.png


#50

bhamv3

bhamv3

(I shall henceforth pronounce it as "Winksy")
I oscillate between "winksy" and "winzi".


#51

PatrThom

PatrThom

Pitying the poor coworkers whose PCs are now coming with windows 11 and they can't figure out how to static out their own IP addresses because all the shit got moved around AGAIN.
Just FYI the other side of the divide isn't faring much better, since macOS Ventura has also moved everything around (and even removed a few things).
It's a very tumultuous time in the tech support world. Have not had to deal with any Win11-specific silliness. Yet. But I'm sure it's coming.

Oh and I know this is supposed to be the "Windows 10" thread but anyway...
Just [1 in 6] PCs have installed Windows 11
I'm typing this on a computer I assembled in Spring of 2022 made of parts current to Spring of 2022 (excepting the RX580 GPU because fuck scalpers) and which Windows Update says, "This PC doesn't currently meet the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11." What was I supposed to do, Microsoft? Build my computer out of parts that haven't even been released yet?

--Patrick


#52

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Just FYI the other side of the divide isn't faring much better, since macOS Ventura has also moved everything around (and even removed a few things).
It's a very tumultuous time in the tech support world. Have not had to deal with any Win11-specific silliness. Yet. But I'm sure it's coming.

Oh and I know this is supposed to be the "Windows 10" thread but anyway...

I'm typing this on a computer I assembled in Spring of 2022 made of parts current to Spring of 2022 (excepting the RX580 GPU because fuck scalpers) and which Windows Update says, "This PC doesn't currently meet the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11." What was I supposed to do, Microsoft? Build my computer out of parts that haven't even been released yet?

--Patrick
This is why windows 10 will likely be the last Microsoft operating system I use


#53

GasBandit

GasBandit

My steam deck does have me wondering if I need to actually buy another PC in the next 5-10 years... and my current PC is literally 9 years old.


#54

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

My steam deck does have me wondering if I need to actually buy another PC in the next 5-10 years... and my current PC is literally 9 years old.
How much I'm enjoying SteamOS and Linux in general makes me wonder why Microsoft isn't trying harder to be more user friendly because why would I ever choose windows 11 over this?


#55

PatrThom

PatrThom

This is why windows 10 will likely be the last Microsoft operating system I use
Since Windows 11 requires* the use of a TPM, unless you're willing to sign "ownership" of your computer over to Microsoft, it'll be the last Microsoft operating system you CAN use.

tpminenow.png


--Patrick
*by default, at least.


#56

PatrThom

PatrThom

After installing KB5021233, some Windows devices might start up to an error (0xc000021a) with a blue screen. Technical note: After installing KB5021233, there might be a mismatch between the file versions of hidparse.sys in c:/windows/system32 and c:/windows/system32/drivers (assuming Windows is installed to your C: drive), which might cause signature validation to fail when cleanup occurs.
ASK ME HOW I SPENT MY EVENING TONIGHT
(fortunately was on Cranky's computer, and not my own)

--Patrick


#57

Bubble181

Bubble181

So, how'd you spend your evening?


(also, I have that update downloaded and ready to go, anything I can do to avoid that crap?)


#58

PatrThom

PatrThom

anything I can do to avoid that crap?
Not really.
I mean, if your machine isn't affected, then it won't be affected. Otherwise, might want to have a USB installer set up and ready to go.

--Patrick


#59

PatrThom

PatrThom

Just in case anyone else wasn't aware (like me!), Microsoft has announced they are going to stop selling Windows 10 licenses to end users as of January 31st of this year. System integrators and other OEMs will still be able to get their good ol' OEM licenses, but YOU will no longer be able to buy your own copy of Windows directly from Microsoft to upgrade your freshly-built or existing machine after Jan 31st of this year. Microsoft has pledged to support Windows 10 until at least October of 2025, though, so there's that.

--Patrick


#60

blotsfan

blotsfan

Wow, thanks for the helpful advice!


#61

Bubble181

Bubble181

Gotta say, these chatgpt powered spam bots are a lot more sensible than the old style.


#62

PatrThom

PatrThom

Ok so we've had discussions about how Windows 11 requires the use of a TPM (and a v2.x TPM, to boot. None of this v1.x BS) before it will even let you install it. The reason for this is that they say the TPM creates a hardware root of trust, a bulwark of firmware-level security at the foundation of everything Windows 11 does to keep everything secure, and...
In-hardware security can be defeated with just two extra bytes
By writing specifically crafted malicious commands, an attacker could exploit the vulnerabilities to crash the TPM chip making it "unusable," execute arbitrary code within TPM's protected memory or read/access sensitive data stored in the (theoretically) isolated crypto-processor.
...uh-oh.

--Patrick


#63

Bubble181

Bubble181

Gosh, a security system that's being forced on millions and thus has the biggest bull's eye in the world on its back turns out to be not 100% foolproof? Who could have guessed?!


#64

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Honestly I love windows 11, as it finally convinced me to ditch windows going forward and fully embrace Linux and open source


#65

Bubble181

Bubble181

One of the reasons I'm reluctant to go for the Steam Deck is because I'm completely unfamiliar with Linux and prefer having at least one Windows capable machine... But with the way W11 is going, I may just pull the trigger:confused:


#66

PatrThom

PatrThom

Microsoft has pledged to support Windows 10 until at least October of 2025, though, so there's that.
Microsoft has also just announced that Windows 10 Version 22H2 (released November 2022) will be the last version of Windows 10, and it will get no more feature updates, only security updates, until its prescheduled retirement date three whole years later in October of 2025 and if you don't like it tough go buy a Win11 machine.

--Patrick


#67

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Microsoft has also just announced that Windows 10 Version 22H2 (released November 2022) will be the last version of Windows 10, and it will get no more feature updates, only security updates, until its prescheduled retirement date three whole years later in October of 2025 and if you don't like it tough go buy a Win11 machine. swap to linux

--Patrick
FTFY. I've got to give it to valve and the steam deck, using Linux as my gaming OS has really showed me the benefits of moving to an open source OS alternative away from the grubby mitts of Microsoft and the like, and Microsoft is making it more and more appealing themselves.


#68

GasBandit

GasBandit

Yep. My next gaming PC is probably just going to be my steam deck. I'm almost tempted to just switch to it full time after Steam forces its client to stop working on windows 7 in 250 days.


#69

PatrThom

PatrThom

swap to linux.
Nothing saying you can't have a *nix box warmed and ready, just in case.
I'm seriously looking at setting one up full-time now, just so I'll be ready.
It might only be a VM to start with, but come 2025 we'll see just how far down the Phoronix rabbit hole I've gone.

--Patrick


#70

PatrThom

PatrThom

This isn't a pop-up. This is a (Microsoft-signed!) executable whose purpose is to inject a "switch to Bing!" message into your Chrome browser.

--Patrick


#71

PatrThom

PatrThom

Ok so we've had discussions about how Windows 11 requires the use of a TPM (and a v2.x TPM, to boot. None of this v1.x BS) before it will even let you install it. The reason for this is that they say the TPM creates a hardware root of trust, a bulwark of firmware-level security at the foundation of everything Windows 11 does to keep everything secure, and...

...uh-oh.
Aaaaand...action!


--Patrick


#72

figmentPez

figmentPez

TIL that hitting Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+L opens up LinkedIn. Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+T opens up Microsoft Teams, and Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+P opens up PowerPoint.

Those are some really shitty keyboard "shortcuts" that I will never be using.


#73

Bubble181

Bubble181

TIL that hitting Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+L opens up LinkedIn. Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+T opens up Microsoft Teams, and Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+P opens up PowerPoint.

Those are some really shitty keyboard "shortcuts" that I will never be using.
There's a whole bunch of those. I forgot what other pages and programs, you can definitely find a list somewhere on the net. They're all equally useless.


#74

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

TIL that hitting Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+L opens up LinkedIn. Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+T opens up Microsoft Teams, and Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+P opens up PowerPoint.

Those are some really shitty keyboard "shortcuts" that I will never be using.
This is why it's dangerous to listen to thunder gods, they might speak cursed knowledge.


#75

General Specific

General Specific

This is why it's dangerous to listen to thunder gods, they might speak cursed knowledge.
1707840491946.png


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