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Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities: Who's sexually harassing? Who's sexually harassed? Let's find out!

Nov 9, 2017#1

blotsfan

This seems too political for any media thread and too entertainment based for any political thread so here we go. Since this seems like it's not going away anytime soon.

The newest name to come out is Louis CK. There have been a ton of rumors about him for years, so this one isn't too surprising. We'll see what the times says, but canceling everything like this sure doesn't look good.

https://www.spin.com/2017/11/louis-...canceled-in-advance-of-n-y-times-story/?amp=1

Nov 9, 2017#2

phil

America. It's spelled America.

Nov 9, 2017#3

blotsfan

Well yeah, but I felt like this could be a place for Hollywood specifically.

Nov 9, 2017#4

Bubble181

phil said:
America. It's spelled America.

Most of humanity, really. I mean, plenty of similar stuff in Europe too, and don't for a second think Asian or middle eastern or African cultures are that much better wrt women and sexual abuse.

Nov 9, 2017#5

blotsfan

Fine. I changed the thread title.

Nov 9, 2017#6

Frank

All of them.

All the time.

Nov 9, 2017#7

PatrThom

Gared said:
Let's just avoid starting a [Spacey] thread prefix, shall we?

There are so many other, better ones to choose from.

—Patrick

Nov 9, 2017#8

Hailey Knight

I'm kind of amazed a studio cares enough about this to cut Spacey from a movie and reshoot all his scenes with Christopher Plummer playing the character instead.

Nov 9, 2017#9

phil

Ok but for real I'm impressed that this is getting the attention that it deserves. I'm not about to call Spacey done forever but his career is for sure on hold. Hopefully this continues with the likes of Luie CK and everyone else being outed now. I hope Cory Feldman is able to shine a light on his abusers and be taken seriously.

I feel like this all really came to a head when Terry Cruse came forward. I applaud him for doing so but it sucks that that's what it took for this all to come to a head.

Nov 9, 2017#10

Timmus

I really don't want the Jeffry Tambor one to turn out to be true.

Nov 9, 2017#11

Frank

Timmus said:
I really don't want the Jeffry Tambor one to turn out to be true.

Live with it. All your faves are scum.

Nov 9, 2017#12

Frank

Gared said:
Mariah Carey likes to get naked in front of men and masturbate

I'd never seen this one.

Nov 9, 2017#13

Timmus

Gared said:
Mariah Carey likes to get naked in front of men and masturbate.

The fuck?![DOUBLEPOST=1510287336,1510287281][/DOUBLEPOST]

Frank said:
I'd never seen this one.

Those old school quote pyramids still a thing?

Nov 9, 2017#14

blotsfan

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mariah-carey-accused-of-sexual-harassment

Though its a little more iffy since its right in the middle of a contract dispute between her and the accuser.

Nov 9, 2017#15

Timmus

blotsfan said:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mariah-carey-accused-of-sexual-harassment

Though its a little more iffy since its right in the middle of a contract dispute between her and the accuser.

Yeah I hope the result of all this stuff coming out is not to embolden scammers which makes coming forward that much harder for actual victims.

Nov 9, 2017#16

phil

Hopefully this highlights that it really is anyone who could do it and anyone that it could happen to.

The worst thing though is that if any prove to be false MRA and the like will throw that around for years as an example of their false report narrative.

I'm also concerned how the Russia troll farms will use this. I think they'll go with saying celebrities can't be trusted and since Hollywood leans left the left most love sexual harassment. I could maybe see this to be used to stir support for the suppression of the arts in a kind of worst case scenario.

Nov 9, 2017#17

Ravenpoe

Gared said:
Charlie Sheen raped Corey Haim;

This came from a national enquirer story

Nov 10, 2017#18

Bubble181

I know it's Sinfest, and allthe baggage that brings, but still, this one struck me as "on point":

Nov 10, 2017#19

drawn_inward

Baldwins bros and Affleck bros next? Who else?

Nov 10, 2017#20

ThatNickGuy

DC Comics editor Eddie Berganza, looks like it. Which is long overdue.

Nov 10, 2017#21

Eriol

The waste of skin that is Jenny McCarthy (IMO she is responsible for nearly all deaths caused by anti-vaxxers, since she popularized it, though maybe second to Wakefield) accuses Steven Seagal.

Nov 10, 2017#22

Dave

Ravenpoe said:
This came from a national enquirer story

That everyone denies, including Haim's mom. She named the guy but was bleeped and had her mouth covered up. Fuck Dr. Oz.

Nov 10, 2017#23

Ravenpoe

Dave said:
That everyone denies, including Haim's mom. She named the guy but was bleeped and had her mouth covered up. Fuck Dr. Oz.

I thought national enquirer itself was enough to think the story fake

Nov 10, 2017#24

GasBandit

Couple years ago, Kes from ST:Voyager got arrested for exposing herself to minors...

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/jennifer-lien-arrested-star-trek-voyager-1201594328/amp[DOUBLEPOST=1510336427,1510336248][/DOUBLEPOST]Also...

Nov 10, 2017#25

Frank

Eriol said:
The waste of skin that is Jenny McCarthy (IMO she is responsible for nearly all deaths caused by anti-vaxxers, since she popularized it, though maybe second to Wakefield) accuses Steven Seagal.

Jenny McCarthy's claim is pretty old, Portia De Rossi recently had one too, Julianna Margulies as well, he's been on the hook for illegal sex trafficking and he's literally hiding in Russia now to avoid many different prosecutions.

Steven Seagal is scum.

Ellen Page wrote a pretty large letter about Brett Ratner and others.

Nov 10, 2017#26

GasBandit

Louis CK made a statement today.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html

Nov 10, 2017#27

Gruebeard

Frank said:
Jenny McCarthy's claim is pretty old, Portia De Rossi recently had one too, Julianna Margulies as well, he's been on the hook for illegal sex trafficking and he's literally hiding in Russia now to avoid many different prosecutions.

Steven Seagal is scum.

Ellen Page wrote a pretty large letter about Brett Ratner and others.

That's the first like I've ever given to a Facebook post.

(I mean Page's post, not Patr's)

Nov 10, 2017#28

figmentPez

On Tumblr last night I saw a post talking about how Allison Mack (Chloe on Smallville) is the second-in-command of a sex cult. While the New York Times did an article on this cult, and how it literally brands women who join, among other things, that article makes no mention of Mack. The main source of Mack being a higher-up in the cult seems to come from the Daily Mail and The Sun, so I don't know what to think. There is video of her promoting the "self help group", so she's at least a member, but how much she's a victim and how much victimizer, I have no idea.

Nov 10, 2017#29

Frank

figmentPez said:
On Tumblr last night I saw a post talking about how Allison Mack (Chloe on Smallville) is the second-in-command of a sex cult. While the New York Times did an article on this cult, and how it literally brands women who join, among other things, that article makes no mention of Mack. The main source of Mack being a higher-up in the cult seems to come from the Daily Mail and The Sun, so I don't know what to think. There is video of her promoting the "self help group", so she's at least a member, but how much she's a victim and how much victimizer, I have no idea.

The Allison Mack is in command of anything story is literally from the Daily Mail. New York Times didn't mention her at all.

Nov 10, 2017#30

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Louis CK made a statement today.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html

Yeah people at work today won’t shut up about it.

Gruebeard said:
That's the first like I've ever given to a Facebook post.
(I mean Page's post, not Patr's)

We both know I only post to FB something like once or twice a year.

—Patrick

Nov 10, 2017#31

ThatNickGuy

And here we go. I'm hoping this story goes big and DC finally kicks Berganza to the curb.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/dc-comics-editor-eddie-berganza-sexual-harassment

Nov 10, 2017#32

Dave

GasBandit said:
Louis CK made a statement today.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html

I have to admit, that's a damned good response.

Nov 10, 2017#33

PatrThom

*mitigate
And yeah.

—Patrick

Nov 10, 2017#34

phil

Dave said:
I have to admit, that's a damned good response.

It is good but he's had years to be able to say it. It still just feels like damage control.

Nov 11, 2017#35

PatrThom

Gared said:
George Takei accused of sexual assault of a model in 1981.

Oh my.

--Patrick

Nov 11, 2017#36

drawn_inward

Gared said:
The NYTimes has a list... not that I'm terribly fond of the Times, but it's a list. I'm greatly saddened to see John Besh on it.

Yeah, me too. I watch his show on PBS, and really like his cooking style. I saw his story break about two weeks ago. He stepped down from his company too.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Nov 11, 2017#37

PatrThom

Gared said:
it sure does feel like I'm in the minority right now.

You're not.
Well, you're not alone, at any rate.

--Patrick

Nov 11, 2017#38

Frank

Dave said:
I have to admit, that's a damned good response.

I don't really agree.

As Paul F. Thompkins put it:

He didn't apologize.

Nov 11, 2017#39

chris

I knew about Chris Savino but seeing him on the list is saddening.

Nov 11, 2017#40

strawman

Dave said:
I have to admit, that's a damned good response.

It's a whole lot better than what others have said after being caught, and as such is a bit of an outlier in the right direction.

It's far short of a truly sincere apology.

Nov 11, 2017#41

GasBandit

Nov 11, 2017#42

PatrThom

Leonardo DiCaprio, too? Nooooo!
EDIT: Because he's not in the picture and it's the Oscars, not because I've heard anything.

--Patrick

Nov 11, 2017#43

DarkAudit

GasBandit said:

Give it time...

Nov 12, 2017#44

Dave

She's one of the people who signed a petition and tried hard to get Polanski's release when he was arrested...

Nov 12, 2017#45

Eriol

Frank said:
I don't really agree.

As Paul F. Thompkins put it:

He didn't apologize.

Or more broadly: "You're not sorry you did it, you're sorry you got caught!" - JMS

Nov 12, 2017#46

fade

drawn_inward said:
Baldwins bros and Affleck bros next? Who else?

Casey Affleck has had some dirty baggage for a while, from what I understand. I haven't watched Manchester-by-the-sea yet despite the praise because I don't want to support his career.

Nov 13, 2017#47

blotsfan

fade said:
Casey Affleck has had some dirty baggage for a while, from what I understand. I haven't watched Manchester-by-the-sea yet despite the praise because I don't want to support his career.

Come see daddy's home 2!!!

Nov 14, 2017#48

drawn_inward

fade said:
Casey Affleck has had some dirty baggage for a while, from what I understand. I haven't watched Manchester-by-the-sea yet despite the praise because I don't want to support his career.

You're not missing much unless you enjoy depressive dramas. Besides, I don't think he's all that great of an actor. He's adequate.

We watched Baby Driver last night for the first time. I forget Spacey was in it. His character says something like this: I love the balls on Baby.

Nov 14, 2017#49

Dave

I think it was, "I was just blinded by the balls on that kid."

But you can't really blame him for words he said in a script unless he wrote it. Now the stuff he's done in real life...'nuther story.

Nov 14, 2017#50

fade

drawn_inward said:
You're not missing much unless you enjoy depressive dramas. Besides, I don't think he's all that great of an actor. He's adequate.

We watched Baby Driver last night for the first time. I forget Spacey was in it. His character says something like this: I love the balls on Baby.

The only reason I really wanted to see it was because I lived in Beverly, MA--which is the next town over from MBtS. We went there for the beach in the summer. In fact, I was living there when I first joined this group of miscreants.

Nov 14, 2017#51

drawn_inward

fade said:
The only reason I really wanted to see it was because I lived in Beverly, MA--which is the next town over from MBtS. We went there for the beach in the summer. In fact, I was living there when I first joined this group of miscreants.

I don't know what we're supposed to do with all this info about all these guys. There's a spectrum of actions by all these guys. I am glad there has been some light shined on their actions, I hope something real is done about it in the real world. We'll see. I'd let yourself off the hook and watch the movie though. I don't think you're supporting his assholery by watching it.

Nov 16, 2017#52

drawn_inward

Al Franken? C'mon man.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/al-franken-sexual-harassment/index.html

Nov 16, 2017#53

Eriol

drawn_inward said:
Al Franken? C'mon man.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/al-franken-sexual-harassment/index.html

I put that on in a post on the Politics forum, since he's a Senator now: https://www.halforums.com/threads/g...ampire-likes-bats.17774/page-390#post-1379671

Though it definitely does "belong" in either or both threads.

Nov 16, 2017#54

GasBandit

Gared said:
Apparently Danny Masterson's name came up back in March/April, before being quashed by the Church of Scientology, so his accusers have come forward publicly now, and are demanding equal treatment as Spacey's and Louis C.K.'s received - the complete and utter severance of all ties between Netflix and the accused - and an investigation that goes somewhere.

Gives new meaning to "The Immortal Iron Fist"

Wait, sorry, wrong frizzy-haired asshole. >_<

Nov 21, 2017#55

Celt Z

Well, this is just craptastic. And deeply disappointing:

John Lasseter taking a leave of absence from Pixar. There is a history of sexual misconduct.

Nov 21, 2017#56

MindDetective

Nov 22, 2017#57

Bubble181

Celt Z said:
Well, this is just craptastic. And deeply disappointing:

John Lasseter taking a leave of absence from Pixar. There is a history of sexual misconduct.

The first of those two links redirected me to a porn site halfway through the article...just a warning for those reading at work.

That aside, what's being described in those articles us certainly worth calling out and the person should be reprimanded...the only person willing to put their name on it directly contradicts the story, and must seems tree be limited to inappropriate behavior...
I dunno, yes, putting your hand on a knee where it isn't welcome is wrong, and it being so accepted is because of our cultural norms that need to change...but does it really merit a reaction like Weinstein or Cosby?
I still feel like now all forms of crossing boundaries are being treated as"equally bad" while there really are gradations in there.

Nov 22, 2017#58

drawn_inward

Bubble181 said:
The first of those two links redirected me to a porn site halfway through the article...just a warning for those reading at work.

That aside, what's being described in those articles us certainly worth calling out and the person should be reprimanded...the only person willing to put their name on it directly contradicts the story, and must seems tree be limited to inappropriate behavior...
I dunno, yes, putting your hand on a knee where it isn't welcome is wrong, and it being so accepted is because of our cultural norms that need to change...but does it really merit a reaction like Weinstein or Cosby?
I still feel like now all forms of crossing boundaries are being treated as"equally bad" while there really are gradations in there.

Most of these guys were in positions of authority. I agree there is a grayscale of sleeziness, but power shifts the scale darker.

Nov 22, 2017#59

strawman

Bubble181 said:
I still feel like now all forms of crossing boundaries are being treated as"equally bad" while there really are gradations in there.

On the one hand there are aspects that are making it feel a bit like a witch hunt, but I have to wonder if in some of these lesser cases what the individual realizes is that they've done worse and if they choose to fight it they will only force their other victims to speak up since someone is finally listening. If they step down early on, when the accusations are for relatively lesser infractions they may spare themselves and their victims additional pain.

Consider Franken - a forced kiss, a hover hand-grab while his victim was sleeping, and he's holding his ground - but now you have others coming forth with slightly worse accusations. Cosby's silence and reluctance to confess undoubtedly caused others to come forward and continue to come forward.

But once they admit their wrongdoing and make at least a pretense of contriteness, the accusations stop. I'd guess that once they are sufficiently chastised/punished other victims feel no need to come forward.

The "troubling discussions" Lassetar had seemed more ominous than what's coming out in the press, and my first thought was that they essentially showed him all the statements they've gathered, and then agreed together (probably with a pack of lawyers, etc) on what each side would release to the press and what each side would do. And so far it seems to be working - he's not losing his job, he's taking a 6 month sabbatical - and it may even be a paid sabbatical. Release a statement, wait long enough for it to blow over, and maybe that will be sufficient.

But the lightness of the punishment may also recognize that the crime wasn't as bad as others have suffered at the hands of other assailants.

Regardless, this is all trial by the public, so there's bound to be a great deal of variance in the punishment. The statute of limitations for the vast majority of these crimes is well past, most states having felony statutes of limitation around 5-6 years, though some are as long as 10 years for specific sexual crimes (such as sexual crimes against minors).

And on top of that - it's salacious and makes for a good story in the media.

All that said, punishing people for minor offenses will put everyone on notice that certain acts will not be tolerated, and hopefully will overall reduce sexual crime as a society because even the minor things are career changers.

Nov 22, 2017#60

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
The first of those two links redirected me to a porn site halfway through the article...just a warning for those reading at work.

Probably not gizmodo's fault, probably an insufficiently-vetted ad.

--Patrick

Nov 22, 2017#61

Bubble181

PatrThom said:
Probably not gizmodo's fault, probably an insufficiently-vetted ad.

--Patrick

Oh, I know. I normally don't click anything there anyway...but just wanted to throw out the warning, I'm not the only person prone to misclicks, and one wrong click leading to a dozen pop-ups and -unders for WOW-gold and porn is not expected behavior

Nov 29, 2017#62

DarkAudit

Matt Lauer fired from the Today show.

Nov 29, 2017#63

Celt Z

Not even the least bit surprised. My late grandmother used to go off on what a scummy guy he was, and her gossip rags would talk about his affairs on set. A broken clock and all that.

Nov 29, 2017#64

ThatNickGuy

I just realized the thread title is "Hollywoo," not "Hollywood."

Nov 29, 2017#65

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
I just realized the thread title is "Hollywoo," not "Hollywood."

The thread title is a Bojack Horseman reference

Nov 29, 2017#66

ThatNickGuy

Ravenpoe said:
The thread title is a Bojack Horseman reference

Ah, I've never seen it.

Nov 29, 2017#67

Bubble181

Ravenpoe said:
The thread title is a Bojack Horseman reference

I haven't seen it, either.

I assumed it was a joke about "wooing" someone.

Nov 29, 2017#68

blotsfan

Ravenpoe said:
The thread title is a Bojack Horseman reference

I had a non-referential name, but people complained, so moderately obscure reference it is!

Nov 29, 2017#69

PatrThom

Garrison Keillor fired from Minnesota Public Radio

...too far? Is it officially in witch hunt territory now?

--Patrick

Nov 29, 2017#70

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Garrison Keillor fired from Minnesota Public Radio

...too far? Is it officially in witch hunt territory now?

--Patrick

Oh man. I heard him on NPR on Writer's Almanac just this morning.

Nov 29, 2017#71

Shakey

PatrThom said:
Garrison Keillor fired from Minnesota Public Radio

...too far? Is it officially in witch hunt territory now?

--Patrick

I was just coming here to post that. I wonder if we're getting to the point where we're doing more harm than good.
Zero tolerance policies rarely work out well. From what we've seen so far, I don't know that this really warranted that type of response.

Nov 29, 2017#72

Gruebeard

PatrThom said:
Garrison Keillor fired from Minnesota Public Radio

...too far? Is it officially in witch hunt territory now?

--Patrick

Man, that article makes his defense look like "Fans have touched me inappropriately, so it's okay if I innapropriately touch someone who works with me."

Anyway, it can't be a witch hunt for a couple reasons:

Unlike the real witch hunt, the number of actually guilty partied is greater than 0.
Unlike the Great American ~~Witch~~ Commie Hunt, people aren't being hunted down for fear of what they might do.

Nov 29, 2017#73

GasBandit

Shakey said:
I was just coming here to post that. I wonder if we're getting to the point where we're doing more harm than good.
Zero tolerance policies rarely work out well. From what we've seen so far, I don't know that this really warranted that type of response.

How long before it's just any man who misread a signal and put a hand on the shoulder of a woman who wasn't interested? How much longer after that when just having a creepy smile is enough grounds? How many more isla vista shooters will come out of a world where males are strung up by their heels for expressing interest?

Also this whole thing is starting to remind me of these things -
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sexual-harassment/2751966

Celt Z made mention in another thread about Chris Evans, "Don't you touch him 2017!" which I can only assume means she's hoping it turns out he's never touched a woman he wasn't married to in his life, but I'd come back with, he could probably go full on Louis CK and find nothing but willingness and gratitude.

Nov 29, 2017#74

blotsfan

And there it is

Nov 29, 2017#75

Shakey

Gruebeard said:
Man, that article makes his defense look like "Fans have touched me inappropriately, so it's okay if I innapropriately touch someone who works with me."

Anyway, it can't be a witch hunt for a couple reasons:

Unlike the real witch hunt, the number of actually guilty partied is greater than 0.
Unlike the Great American ~~Witch~~ Commie Hunt, people aren't being hunted down for fear of what they might do.

That's a dumb response on his part.
The Star Tribune article is a bit better at including his actual response.

http://m.startribune.com/garrison-keillor-reportedly-fired-for-improper-behavior/460802703/

Nov 29, 2017#76

Gruebeard

Shakey said:
That's a dumb response on his part.
The Star Tribune article is a bit better at including his actual response.

http://m.startribune.com/garrison-keillor-reportedly-fired-for-improper-behavior/460802703/

Aye. I followed the link in the npr to that, and saw that the impression npr left me with was wrong.

Nov 29, 2017#77

MindDetective

GasBandit said:
How long before it's just any man who misread a signal and put a hand on the shoulder of a woman who wasn't interested? How much longer after that when just having a creepy smile is enough grounds? How many more isla vista shooters will come out of a world where males are strung up by their heels for expressing interest?

Also this whole thing is starting to remind me of these things -
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sexual-harassment/2751966

Celt Z made mention in another thread about Chris Evans, "Don't you touch him 2017!" which I can only assume means she's hoping it turns out he's never touched a woman he wasn't married to in his life, but I'd come back with, he could probably go full on Louis CK and find nothing but willingness and gratitude.

Really? The slippery slope argument?

Nov 29, 2017#78

GasBandit

MindDetective said:
Really? The slippery slope argument?

Well, let me know when we stop slipping, I guess. I mean, the most asexual old fart ever to sit on a porch in Minnesota and mumble about americana just got fired for an awkwardly flubbed pat on the back.

Nov 29, 2017#79

blotsfan

GasBandit said:
I mean, the most asexual old fart ever to sit on a porch in Minnesota and mumble about americana just got fired for an awkwardly flubbed pat on the back.

So he says.

Nov 29, 2017#80

GasBandit

Well, when's the inquisition coming for Uncle Joe, then, I guess?

[DOUBLEPOST=1511985353,1511985153][/DOUBLEPOST]And on a progressively lighter note.

Nov 29, 2017#81

Shakey

GasBandit said:
Well, let me know when we stop slipping, I guess. I mean, the most asexual old fart ever to sit on a porch in Minnesota and mumble about americana just got fired for an awkwardly flubbed pat on the back.

I don't know if I would call him asexual. We went to a show of his not too long ago with our 12 year old daughter, and got to listen to him retelling his first sexual experience... That ranked up there in awkward moments.

I'd like to know more. Keillor is one of the few celebrities I looked up to. So far it seems overblown, but it's hard to say anymore.

Nov 29, 2017#82

MindDetective

GasBandit said:
Well, let me know when we stop slipping, I guess. I mean, the most asexual old fart ever to sit on a porch in Minnesota and mumble about americana just got fired for an awkwardly flubbed pat on the back.

There is no question that some inappropriate behavior is more inappropriate than others. But the slippery slope is a fallacy and you know it. Also, keep in mind:

1.) Contracts are between employers and employees and usually give some freedoms to both parties to extract from the contract. Lauer was probably fired based on such a clause. If it was inappropriate use of the clause, he can sue! But neither Keillor nor Lauer are being "strung up by their heels". It isn't a prosecution (except in the court of public opinion, which is another matter).

2.) While there might actually be more than a bit of "viral fad" to the sexual misconduct revelations, that doesn't make them untrue. The virulence of this fad needn't be because it is cool to accuse old dudes of terrible things but that the social climate makes it safer to come out now, more so with each public reveal. The cascading effect looks a little like a witch hunt, but that is only because it involves accusations, rather than a dank meme spreading around, not because of the number is high.

Nov 29, 2017#83

GasBandit

MindDetective said:
There is no question that some inappropriate behavior is more inappropriate than others. But the slippery slope is a fallacy and you know it.

There's a difference, though, between a slippery slope and runaway freight train.

Also, keep in mind:

1.) Contracts are between employers and employees and usually give some freedoms to both parties to extract from the contract. Lauer was probably fired based on such a clause. If it was inappropriate use of the clause, he can sue! But neither Keillor nor Lauer are being "strung up by their heels". It isn't a prosecution (except in the court of public opinion, which is another matter).

Keillor's career is over. He's not making a big fuss about it though, because he's basically 99% retired already anyway. If it had been a younger man, it'd have been much more dire.

2.) While there might actually be more than a bit of "viral fad" to the sexual misconduct revelations, that doesn't make them untrue. The virulence of this fad needn't be because it is cool to accuse old dudes of terrible things but that the social climate makes it safer to come out now, more so with each public reveal. The cascading effect looks a little like a witch hunt, but that is only because it involves accusations, rather than a dank meme spreading around, not because of the number is high.

I guess we'll keep the hot pokers and thumbscrews at the ready, then, for the next dastardly villain to be revealed by something awkward in his past.

Though, I do find it a little funny that somehow Andrew "Dice" Clay has not been rounded up yet. I would have thought for sure that if there was anybody who put a hand on someone and made her feel icky, it'd have been him.

Nov 29, 2017#84

MindDetective

GasBandit said:
There's a difference, though, between a slippery slope and runaway freight train.

Keillor's career is over. He's not making a big fuss about it though, because he's basically 99% retired already anyway. If it had been a younger man, it'd have been much more dire.

I guess we'll keep the hot pokers and thumbscrews at the ready, then, for the next dastardly villain to be revealed by something awkward in his past.

Though, I do find it a little funny that somehow Andrew "Dice" Clay has not been rounded up yet. I would have thought for sure that if there was anybody who put a hand on someone and made her feel icky, it'd have been him.

maybe because he has no career to speak of any more?[DOUBLEPOST=1511986566,1511986468][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, Keillor's career with MPR may be over, but that was between him and MPR. MPR had the right to fire him, unless they did so against the contract they both signed. That is my point.

Nov 29, 2017#85

GasBandit

MindDetective said:
maybe because he has no career to speak of any more?

And Keillor did? Heck, and Cosby did?

Also, Keillor's career with MPR may be over, but that was between him and MPR. MPR had the right to fire him, unless they did so against the contract they both signed. That is my point.

I wasn't talking about the right to do so, I was talking about severity/effect.

Nov 29, 2017#86

blotsfan

Bill Cosby was in the process of getting a Tv show on NBC.

http://deadline.com/2014/11/bill-cosby-nbc-series-canceled-1201289210/

Nov 29, 2017#87

MindDetective

GasBandit said:
And Keillor did? Heck, and Cosby did?

Well, the "newsworthiness" might really have to do with the surprisingness of it, more than the degree of the effect on the respective careers. In Cosby's case, the sheer predatory and repeated behaviors described in the allegations were pretty newsworthy too.

I wasn't talking about the right to do so, I was talking about severity/effect.

Yeah, but they are obviously linked. NBC and MPR have business to do, and dragging feet on allegations, especially if there is repeated and/or corroborating evidence against a person, will be very bad for that business. Free market!

Nov 29, 2017#88

GasBandit

blotsfan said:
Bill Cosby was in the process of getting a Tv show on NBC.

http://deadline.com/2014/11/bill-cosby-nbc-series-canceled-1201289210/

I genuinely did not know that. I thought he was off in a corner mouldering or something.[DOUBLEPOST=1511987724,1511987608][/DOUBLEPOST]

MindDetective said:
Well, the "newsworthiness" might really have to do with the surprisingness of it, more than the degree of the effect on the respective careers. In Cosby's case, the sheer predatory and repeated behaviors described in the allegations were pretty newsworthy too.

Well, you've got a point there.

Yeah, but they are obviously linked. NBC and MPR have business to do, and dragging feet on allegations, especially if there is repeated and/or corroborating evidence against a person, will be very bad for that business. Free market!

Nov 29, 2017#89

Shakey

MindDetective said:
maybe because he has no career to speak of any more?[DOUBLEPOST=1511986566,1511986468][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, Keillor's career with MPR may be over, but that was between him and MPR. MPR had the right to fire him, unless they did so against the contract they both signed. That is my point.

I agree that it's within their rights. My only worry is that if everything becomes career ending, and there's no room for 'This was a one time misunderstanding/mistake, and appropriate action has been taken' does it just become noise? Do people stop caring?
There's a huge difference between Weinstein and what is happening here (At least so far). And yet there is still a push for the same response.

Nov 29, 2017#90

Gruebeard

Slippery slopes and witch hunts? Or is it just what Frank said at the start of this thread?

Frank said:
Live with it. All your faves are scum.

Frank said:
All of them.

All the time.

Nov 29, 2017#91

GasBandit

If everybody is scum, is anybody?

Nov 29, 2017#92

Gruebeard

Not everybody. Just everybody with fame and/or money or some other form of power.

Nov 29, 2017#93

GasBandit

Gruebeard said:
Not everybody. Just everybody with fame and/or money or some other form of power.

IE, there is no virtue, only lack of opportunity.

Nov 29, 2017#94

Bubble181

GasBandit said:
If everybody is scum, is anybody?

Yes.

Anyway, one other thing that annoys me, up to a point, is...historical revisionism. Some things have happened two years ago, some thirty.
I'm not condoning sexual misbehavior, far from it, but public mores and what is considered "acceptable" have changed. Pretty much nobody batted an eye when rock and pop stars banged 16-year-olds in the 70s. Nobody considered it strange for a boss to pay his secretary on the ass in the 80s. Being gay was weird and abnormal back then and is perfectly acceptable most everywhere (excluding religious conservative circles) now. Public opinion changes, and while some things were never ok, some things were part of the era. You can certainly consider them bad in retrospect, not everything needs to be covered with the mantle of love...but there's a difference between taking advantage of a position of power when it was considered the norm, versus now when it's very clearly bad.

Nov 29, 2017#95

Ravenpoe

Because one case gets overreacted to does not invalidate every other case. Rather, like any and all accusations, they must be investigated and weighed under their own merit. It's a lot more work, but that's life, or at least how life should be.

Nov 29, 2017#96

drawn_inward

GasBandit said:
IE, there is no virtue, only lack of opportunity.

I think that is the key idea. With absolute power, how many of us would be Caligula?

Nov 29, 2017#97

Gruebeard

GasBandit said:
IE, there is no virtue, only lack of opportunity.

No. Humans are assholes, and we'll all do shitty, selfish things we think we can get away with, and it's easier to get away with that shit if we have some measure of power.

Edit - I guess that's actually a yes.[DOUBLEPOST=1511992235,1511991776][/DOUBLEPOST]But there is virtue, too. The virtue comes from resisting the base human instinct and passing on the opportunity.

I mean, that's really the definition of virtue. Hell, it's the core concept of Christianity.

Nov 29, 2017#98

Frank

Look, as long as nothing shitty about Weird Al comes out, I'm fine. He's the only celebrity I couldn't handle.

Nov 29, 2017#99

Bubble181

Gared, I've been sexually abused myself, for years. And I've already left this place once over being called a rape apologist. I have neither the will not the interest to go down that path again.
Holding slaves is horrible, despicable, and evil. Yet I believe we should judge someone who had slaves in 1750 differently from someone who has slaves in 2017.
I have video of my father in law blowing cigar smoke in my sister in law's face when she was an infant - back in the 60s. NOW we know that's wrong, and a video of a father doing that would be a sign they're a terrible father. Back then, some people may have been screaming about it, but if was still normal.
Morals and understanding evolve. That doesn't make things in the past acceptable, not does it mean they weren't bad or horrible for the victims, but the mindset and personality of the perpetrator are different.

And that's the last I'll say about it. I don't want to go further on this path of conversation, if you want to think me a horrible person, good for you, but I'm not responding again.

Nov 29, 2017#100

Celt Z

GasBandit said:
How long before it's just any man who misread a signal and put a hand on the shoulder of a woman who wasn't interested? How much longer after that when just having a creepy smile is enough grounds? How many more isla vista shooters will come out of a world where males are strung up by their heels for expressing interest?

Except that none of these things have been the issue. These have been people in power using that to leverage it for groping, threatening, and abusing people they work with or are around.

Celt Z made mention in another thread about Chris Evans, "Don't you touch him 2017!" which I can only assume means she's hoping it turns out he's never touched a woman he wasn't married to in his life, but I'd come back with, he could probably go full on Louis CK and find nothing but willingness and gratitude.

Don't assume for me, because you are very, very wrong. I meant for him to be revealed as someone who abuses or assaults other people and you know it. No, I don't think in this current climate he'd get a pass. There's been a social change that not only are these behavoirs not acceptable (and honestly, they never were), but people aren't looking the other way anymore. You're never supposed to be putting your hands on someone without their consent is the minimum of acceptable behavior, and maybe people who can't figure that out SHOULD be ostracized. There is no job or position one can hold that entitles them to someone else's body.

Nov 29, 2017#101

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Well, when's the inquisition coming for Uncle Joe, then, I guess?

I guess he wasn't afraid to cut the cake after all.

I have to say that some of this (not all of it, obviously) is starting to feel like the latest Crisis Of The Week, like steroids in baseball, or agricultural slavery...things which go on, are going on, have been going on, but suddenly become INTOLERABLE RABBLE RABBLE because they get into the crosshairs of the public eye.

--Patrick

Nov 29, 2017#102

blotsfan

You know what, I don't buy the "everyone is scum so whats it matter" philosophy. That sort of overwhelming cynicism is wrong, and gives cover to the truly bad people. Yeah there are a lot of shitty people doing shitty things, but saying "well that means literally everyone does it" even if there has never been a whiff of wrongdoing is lazy and damaging.

Nov 29, 2017#103

strawman

Frank said:
Look, as long as nothing shitty about Weird Al comes out, I'm fine. He's the only celebrity I couldn't handle.

Sorry to have to break it to you...

Nov 29, 2017#104

blotsfan

Plus I remember he propositioned @General Specific's wife right in front of him. Pretty shameless IMO.

Nov 29, 2017#105

GasBandit

Man, I can't even go off the grid for an hour for a doctor's appointment without things blowing up.

Bubble and Gared, I'd like to gently and politely suggest you both cool out a little, I think maybe things got a little out of hand and beyond the scope of what was being discussed.

Celt Z said:
Except that none of these things have been the issue. These have been people in power using that to leverage it for groping, threatening, and abusing people they work with or are around.

I guess we'll find out if that's the case when the ~~lynching~~ investigation of Garrison Keillor is finished.

Don't assume for me, because you are very, very wrong. I meant for him to be revealed as someone who abuses or assaults other people and you know it.

I... I thought that's what I said. That you had said you didn't want for him to have been involved in something like that. If that's not what came across, rest assured that is what I was trying to say. Granted, I said it in a very snide manner, reflecting my thoughts on the aforementioned Garrison Keillor developments.

No, I don't think in this current climate he'd get a pass.

See, and I'm not so sure. Pretty people (of both sexes) get a pass on doing things that unattractive people don't all the time. Especially when it comes to sexual advances.

You're never supposed to be putting your hands on someone without their consent is the minimum of acceptable behavior, and maybe people who can't figure that out SHOULD be ostracized. There is no job or position one can hold that entitles them to someone else's body.

Well, obviously. But there's what should happen and what does happen. And remember, even on official record, some people are too pretty for prison.

blotsfan said:
You know what, I don't buy the "everyone is scum so whats it matter" philosophy. That sort of overwhelming cynicism is wrong, and gives cover to the truly bad people. Yeah there are a lot of shitty people doing shitty things, but saying "well that means literally everyone does it" even if there has never been a whiff of wrongdoing is lazy and damaging.

Well, tongue was firmly planted in cheek when I typed it. I wasn't offering it as a serious assertion.

Nov 29, 2017#106

figmentPez

Ravenpoe said:
Because one case gets overreacted to does not invalidate every other case. Rather, like any and all accusations, they must be investigated and weighed under their own merit. It's a lot more work, but that's life, or at least how life should be.

Investigations are difficult, and it's not big stars I worry about being taken down unfairly, it's the shadow this might have on smaller businesses, churches, etc. Not that I'm by any means sad that women are able to come forward about this stuff, but I honestly am worried that the "easiest" route will still be taken, it will just flip from automatically assuming the accusations are false, to automatically assuming that they are true, sometimes to the point of pushing people out of positions in an attempt to preempt accusations because of stereotypes.

At my church one of our previous youth directors was accused of having porn on his church computer (not like child porn, or anything illegal, just immoral in the eyes of the congregation). No investigation happened. He was just asked to move on. As far as I know no one knows if he actually did anything wrong, and adults involved do know that they'd heard some of the youth saying they wanted to get rid of him because he wasn't doing things the way they liked. (The bubble-suburb produces some highly entitled brats of children, and I've heard teenagers threaten to make false allegations.) The youth director wasn't fired, exactly, things were just arranged for him to find another job.

Not long after that, one of the adults, who had worked with the youth since before I was at the church, stopped volunteering. From what I can gather, he was asked to stop working with the youth simply because he's never married, and because he's a single man that makes it easier for there to be scandal. I know at least a half-dozen men and women who have maintained friendships with him since their high school days. I've never even heard a hint of anything inappropriate, and I know a lot of people from both genders who love and trust him. Still, as best I know, it was strongly suggested that he stop volunteering, because it looks wrong for a retired single man who never married or had kids to be working with high schoolers. That's it, just because of stereotypes and fears.

If things are going to change, I want them to change for the better, and not just to another form of bad. I'm not going to argue if it's "better" for a "few" scapegoats to sacrificed than for vicitims to not come forward at all, because I don't want to accept that it has to be one way or the other, but from what I've seen there is a very real danger of that being exactly what happens, because I've seen that already happening. Those two stories are from my church, because I know people there who can tell me enough to know that these stories are reasonably accurate, but I've heard similar stories from schools, businesses, and other places around here. People still want to sweep such accusations under the rug, and that seems to be what happens, a lot.

Nov 29, 2017#107

Dave

PatrThom said:
Garrison Keillor fired from Minnesota Public Radio

...too far? Is it officially in witch hunt territory now?

--Patrick

Depends on what he did. It's not a witch hunt if it's a legitimate accusation of wrongdoing.

Nov 29, 2017#108

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Investigations are difficult

But worthwhile. I'm cutting the rest of what you posted because it doesn't really have anything to do with the point of mine you quoted. If you want things to get better, you have to put in the work. You can't counter something with a hypothetical extreme in the opposite direction. Both are bad, use your heads, figure it out.

Nov 29, 2017#109

figmentPez

Ravenpoe said:
But worthwhile. I'm cutting the rest of what you posted because it doesn't really have anything to do with the point of mine you quoted. If you want things to get better, you have to put in the work. You can't counter something with a hypothetical extreme in the opposite direction. Both are bad, use your heads, figure it out.

Yes, of course they're worthwhile, which is why we need to demand investigations before action, which doesn't seem to be the case for Garrison Keillor. Unless there's something I missed, one woman came forward with an accusation, and he was fired and his name scrubbed from any show ever associated with him. I'm hoping there's more reason to it than "well, she says it was harassment, he says it was an accident". If we don't speak up when overreactions occur, then we're rewarding the behavior. They react this way because they want the good reputation that comes with it, and if they can get that good reputation the lazy way, then others will follow along and do the same thing.

And it's not a "hypothetical extreme" it's something that really has happened. People really do lose their jobs and reputations over accusations with no investigation, and I don't want to see it become commonplace.

Nov 29, 2017#110

Frank

Geraldo Rivera is tweeting that sexual misconduct accusations should be made in a timely fashion.

Methinks thou doth protest too much Mr. Rivera.

Nov 29, 2017#111

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Yes, of course they're worthwhile, which is why we need to demand investigations before action, which doesn't seem to be the case for Garrison Keillor. Unless there's something I missed, one woman came forward with an accusation, and he was fired and his name scrubbed from any show ever associated with him. I'm hoping there's more reason to it than "well, she says it was harassment, he says it was an accident". If we don't speak up when overreactions occur, then we're rewarding the behavior. They react this way because they want the good reputation that comes with it, and if they can get that good reputation the lazy way, then others will follow along and do the same thing.

And it's not a "hypothetical extreme" it's something that really has happened. People really do lose their jobs and reputations over accusations with no investigation, and I don't want to see it become commonplace.

Ravenpoe said:
like any and all accusations, they must be investigated and weighed under their own merit.

Nov 29, 2017#112

Celt Z

Frank said:
Geraldo Rivera is tweeting that sexual misconduct accusations should be made in a timely fashion.

Methinks thou doth protest too much Mr. Rivera.

Which is "funny", because there's 1991 video of Bette Midler telling that he drugged and assaulted her at an interview, and she had to laugh it off because no one wanted to back her up at the time.
Odds are pretty high she wasn't the first or the last.

Nov 29, 2017#113

Frank

Celt Z said:
Which is "funny", because there's 1991 video of Bette Midler telling that he drugged and assaulted her at an interview, and she had to laugh it off because no one wanted to back her up at the time.
Odds are pretty high she wasn't the first or the last.

Oh, there you go. His open secret is already open. It's 'hilarious'. You can, almost to man, tell who's going to be the next closet creaked open by how much they bitch and moan publicly.

Nov 29, 2017#114

Hailey Knight

GasBandit said:

That video is so stupid. Gee, I wonder why an action by someone a person likes would be seen favorably vs that same action by a stranger. Guess it's just an unsolvable mystery.

EDIT: Before anyone says it, I know the video is meant to be humorous, but it comes off as if written by a moron and I take umbrage with the video's perspective that women approaching things this way is some shallow or senseless behavior, when it's expected social behavior. If I ask for my wife's car keys, that's normal. If some rando asks for her car keys, that's weird. "But she didn't get upset when the first guy asked her cause she likes him. Women just don't make sense!" -_-

Nov 30, 2017#115

drawn_inward

So, will this ever circle back to Trump? Surely, the "pussy-graber" has a mile-long list of accusers.

Nov 30, 2017#116

Celt Z

There's a part of me that feels like the success of Trump was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as this goes. Wishful thinking, I know. But since he recently tried to backtrack on his "pussy-grabbing" quote, I think he's starting to sweat.
There's also a part of me that thinks they're trying to build a much stronger case against him, such as treason, that he can't slime his way out of, and carries a much heavier sentence, is the only reason he hasn't been nailed for assault.

Nov 30, 2017#117

Tress

This country has become so stupidly partisan that NOTHING, and I truly mean NOTHING, will lead to Trump facing any consequences for ANYTHING while Republicans control Congress. He could murder someone, be caught in the middle of the act on camera, and the conservatives of this country will just call it “fake” and complain about Benghazi.

Nov 30, 2017#118

GasBandit

Rep. John Conyers 5th accuser (and another Franken accuser) come forward.

Nov 30, 2017#119

Gruebeard

Tress said:
This country has become so stupidly partisan that NOTHING, and I truly mean NOTHING, will lead to Trump facing any consequences for ANYTHING while Republicans control Congress. He could murder someone, be caught in the middle of the act on camera, and the conservatives of this country will just call it “fake” and complain about Benghazi.

You mean, the only time he wasn't lying was when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue?

Crazy.

Nov 30, 2017#120

fade

I'm having difficulty with the Hoda Kotb/Matt Lauer "equivalence". It's creepy, and maybe there's something there that needs some disciplinary action. But that's not even in the same ballpark as taking advantage of an underling in a workplace environment. Kotb has no power in this situation. Okay, maybe a little of the "well we won't put you on TV, then variety", but that's not the same as "I will invoke literal millenia of institutionalized hate to end your career if you don't fuck me".

Nov 30, 2017#121

Gruebeard

figmentPez said:
Yes, of course they're worthwhile, which is why we need to demand investigations before action, which doesn't seem to be the case for Garrison Keillor. Unless there's something I missed, one woman came forward with an accusation.

You missed quite a lot.

In the statement from MPR (directly linked to in the article posted here):

Last month, MPR was notified of the allegations which relate to Mr. Keillor's conduct while he was responsible for the production of A Prairie Home Companion (APHC). MPR President Jon McTaggart immediately informed the MPR Board Chair, and a special Board committee was appointed to provide oversight and ongoing counsel. In addition, MPR retained an outside law firm to conduct an independent investigation of the allegations

At least a full month (the statement's from the end of November, so sometime in October) of time passed before their decision.

They devoted internal resources to the issue.

They brought in outside investigators.

Nov 30, 2017#122

figmentPez

Gruebeard said:
You missed quite a lot.

In the statement from MPR (directly linked to in the article posted here):

At least a full month (the statement's from the end of November, so sometime in October) of time passed before their decision.

They devoted internal resources to the issue.

They brought in outside investigators.

My aplogies, most articles are not mentioning that investigation, and I misread the linked article I read it as that the investigations were done after firing Keillor, because I missed the mention of a timetable ("last month") and there's no mention of any findings of the investigation. Generally firings are done after investigations have findings to report, and no one is reporting on the findings because the investigation is ongoing. If Keillor had been merely suspended, or they'd mentioned that what had already been found were serious, or if charges were going to be filed or anything, I'd not have been confused by the issue. However, they're completely scrubbing his name from their company, and they haven't even publicly said that anything has been found or substantiated. It just struck me as backwards to take such serious action, but not be able to say "we have reason".

Nov 30, 2017#123

Gruebeard

figmentPez said:
However, they're completely scrubbing his name from their company, and they haven't even publicly said that anything has been found or substantiated. It just struck me as backwards to take such serious action, but not be able to say "we have reason".

It does look like the investigation is ongoing - I think it's because they're digging deeper, either into Keillor himself, or maybe following leads they uncovered that point to other people or similar issues. Though I'm speculating there.

I think it's safe to say, though, that given the involvement of outside lawyers and their internal committee, they have well documented reasons to back up their action.

Nov 30, 2017#124

fade

Yeah, I've got a feeling NPR/MPR wouldn't toss Keillor under the bus without a good reason. I'm betting they have more on him than they're revealing. Also, I can definitely see him doing the whole Uncle Touchy thing. Pleasant in public, Attack on Titan grin in private.

Nov 30, 2017#125

PatrThom

fade said:
Pleasant in public, Attack on Titan grin in private.

It’s a trope for a reason.

—Patrick

Dec 1, 2017#126

GasBandit

Dec 2, 2017#127

GasBandit

Dec 2, 2017#128

fade

*hand

After Buffy finished with him.

Dec 3, 2017#129

Tress

fade said:
*hand

After Buffy finished with him.

“Kill him a lot.”

Dec 3, 2017#130

Celt Z

Dec 6, 2017#131

Dei

10 Dem senators are calling on Franken to resign.

Dec 6, 2017#132

PatrThom

You mean Ten Democratic Senators pointed and shouted together: "UNCLEAN!"

--Patrick

Dec 6, 2017#133

strawman

Now we hold our breath to see if any of those ten are accused later on...[DOUBLEPOST=1512585200,1512584941][/DOUBLEPOST]And before people roll their eyes, there's precedent:

http://www.twincities.com/2017/10/0...utions-from-hollywood-mogul-harvey-weinstein/

Dec 6, 2017#134

PatrThom

stienman said:
before people roll their eyes, there's precedent:
http://www.twincities.com/2017/10/0...utions-from-hollywood-mogul-harvey-weinstein/

Oh, there's precedent all right. The whole passel of congresscritters no doubt has any number of things they hope will be drowned out by Franken's fortunately-timed fiasco.

--Patrick

Dec 9, 2017#135

GasBandit

Next up on the block - the 9th Circuit court of appeals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Dec 9, 2017#136

@Li3n

Zero Esc said:
by someone a person likes would be seen favorably vs that same action by a stranger.

But the difference isn't between someone you like and a stranger... it's between someone you like and someone you don't. Which is still understandable, even if not to the extent shown in the video (the overreaction being the actual point, even though too many people seem not to get that). Frankly i don't see why you felt the need to label the one she doesn't like "a stranger".

Dec 9, 2017#137

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
Next up on the block - the 9th Circuit court of appeals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Damn paywalls.

Dec 9, 2017#138

Hailey Knight

@Li3n said:
But the difference isn't between someone you like and a stranger... it's between someone you like and someone you don't. Which is still understandable, even if not to the extent shown in the video (the overreaction being the actual point, even though too many people seem not to get that). Frankly i don't see why you felt the need to label the one she doesn't like "a stranger".

I was directly referring to the video.

Dec 9, 2017#139

strawman

figmentPez said:
Damn paywalls.

Run the title through google and use the link from google. It should overcome the pay wall.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pro...ge+Alex+Kozinski+accused+of+sexual+misconduct

Dec 9, 2017#140

GasBandit

figmentPez said:
Damn paywalls.

If you use the AdNauseam browser plugin (forum thread I started about it earlier today here), the site thinks you are loading the ads AND clicking on them, so the paywall doesn't activate.

Dec 10, 2017#141

@Li3n

Zero Esc said:
I was directly referring to the video.

Ok, i re-watched it just to make sure... there's no mention of the "creeper" being a stranger. She just wasn't into him.

Dec 10, 2017#142

Hailey Knight

@Li3n said:
Ok, i re-watched it just to make sure... there's no mention of the "creeper" being a stranger. She just wasn't into him.

It didn't seem to establish she knew him either, so I took it as she didn't.

I'm not arguing your point in the general sense, just that I said stranger because the video seemed like he was a guy she didn't know.

Dec 11, 2017#143

@Li3n

Zero Esc said:
It didn't seem to establish she knew him either, so I took it as she didn't.

I'm not arguing your point in the general sense, just that I said stranger because the video seemed like he was a guy she didn't know.

Dude... under what circumstances would you not get the cops involved if someone you didn't know got the keys to your car to leave stuff in it?

Dec 11, 2017#144

Hailey Knight

@Li3n said:
Dude... under what circumstances would you not get the cops involved if someone you didn't know got the keys to your car to leave stuff in it?

I'm not going to argue what is and isn't canon in a short video's fictional universe. I already explained my wording. I also said I wasn't arguing against your point. At the core of it, liked/didn't like is the difference. I called him a stranger because that is how it appeared to me. Your wording applies to general scenarios, including real life. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

Dec 14, 2017#145

@Li3n

That your logic is flawed in that regard? I mean the video didn't really establish she knew the guy she liked either.

Proper logic is, like, super important...

Dec 14, 2017#146

Gruebeard

@Li3n said:
Proper logic is, like, super important...

I feel like the past ~~year~~ forever in ~~American~~ politics proves that false.

Dec 14, 2017#147

PatrThom

Morgan Spurlock, now?
Is no one safe?
(Yes, @Frank, we know)

--Patrick

Dec 14, 2017#148

ThatNickGuy

I'm trying to think of which celebrity would be the most surprising that they're actually an asshole or a monster. Joss Whedon was a disappointment, but somehow not surprising.

I think Tom Hanks or Morgan Freeman would be ones for me.

Dec 14, 2017#149

Frank

Uuuuuuh, don't look up stories about Morgan Freeman and his step-granddaughter.

Dec 14, 2017#150

ThatNickGuy

Frank said:
Uuuuuuh, don't look up stories about Morgan Freeman and his step-granddaughter.

Goddammit.

That's it. There's no such thing as a good person in the world.

Dec 14, 2017#151

Frank

Hey, on the positive side, Tom Hanks is apparently a pretty amazing dude.

Dec 15, 2017#152

@Li3n

Gruebeard said:
I feel like the past ~~year~~ forever in ~~American~~ politics proves that false.

Just the opposite, it proves how important it is, and what happens when you ignore it... and ignore it, and ignore it...

Also, why my internet >>>>> US internet.

Dec 15, 2017#153

Gared

Mario Batali - facing accusations that he repeatedly sexually harassed and assaulted women in the restaurant industry, and recently fired by ABC from their show "The Chew" - has made his apology. To all of his fans, his friends, and his family. Those he truly let down. Not to the victims, of course. Oh, and he threw in a totally bitchin' recipe for some cinnamon rolls. Yeah... apparently Batali decided that United and Marriott needed some company on the PR Disaster list for 2017.

Dec 16, 2017#154

mikerc

Peter Jackson has admitted that he (unintentionally) took part in the blacklisting of Mira Sorvino & Ashley Judd. Back when casting was still being considered for LOTR Jackson suggested both of them as possible cast members. Weinstein shot both of them down claiming that when he'd worked with them before they were both absolute nightmares.

Weinstein has denied this pointing out that the casting for LOTR was done under New Line not Miramax so he had no influence over it. Jackson has responded that the movies were under the Miramax umbrella for 18 months & casting was considered during this time. When the movies were switched to New Line he had already been warned off Sorvino & Judd (& because he had no reason to doubt the allegations made) so they were not suggested to New Line as possible cast members.

Dec 16, 2017#155

figmentPez

mikerc said:
Peter Jackson has admitted that he (unintentionally) took part in the blacklisting of Mira Sorvino & Ashley Judd. Back when casting was still being considered for LOTR Jackson suggested both of them as possible cast members. Weinstein shot both of them down claiming that when he'd worked with them before they were both absolute nightmares.

Weinstein has denied this pointing out that the casting for LOTR was done under New Line not Miramax so he had no influence over it. Jackson has responded that the movies were under the Miramax umbrella for 18 months & casting was considered during this time. When the movies were switched to New Line he had already been warned off Sorvino & Judd (& because he had no reason to doubt the allegations made) so they were not suggested to New Line as possible cast members.

Dec 18, 2017#156

GasBandit

Two more names to throw on the pile of the accused - Gene Simmons and Chris Matthews.

Dec 18, 2017#157

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
Two more names to throw on the pile of the accused - Gene Simmons and Chris Matthews.

Gene, hell didn't anyone watch his show?

Dec 18, 2017#158

strawman

At least four senators are urging Al Franken to reconsider resigning, including two who issued statements calling for the resignation two weeks ago and said they now feel remorse over what they feel was a rush to judgment.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/18/manchin-franken-senate-resign-300843

The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round...

Dec 18, 2017#159

Ravenpoe

stienman said:
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/18/manchin-franken-senate-resign-300843

The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round...

Manchin is just afraid that if Senators can be made to resign for their bullshit then he might be next.

Dec 18, 2017#160

DarkAudit

Ravenpoe said:
Manchin is just afraid that if Senators can be made to resign for their bullshit then he might be next.

Even luckier they can't be strung up for their children's bullshit...

Dec 19, 2017#161

figmentPez

Mario Batalli apologizes for his "many mistakes" with a cinnamon roll recipe.

This is not how you apologize. Mr. Batalli you made a choice to grope women, that wasn't a mistake. It was a horrible choice; it was a moral and ethical failing, but it's something you deliberately chose to do. That you have sullied the good name of cinnamon rolls only compounds your guilt.

Dec 19, 2017#162

Frank

TJ Miller.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/silic...d-of-sexually-assaulting-and-punching-a-woman

Dec 19, 2017#163

drawn_inward

All your male celebrities are belong to us.

Dec 19, 2017#164

Eriol

Frank said:
TJ Miller.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/silic...d-of-sexually-assaulting-and-punching-a-woman

https://www.thestar.com/entertainme...star-tj-miller-accused-of-sexual-assault.html

There as well. Interesting that both he and his wife deny it, and say this is a vindictive-ex type thing, as they all knew each other in college and all did a comedy thing together (and current wife is relationship immediately after the accuser). But then there are others quoted in your story Frank about how they also knew everybody at the time, and believe the victim.

Basically: who to believe? I really have no idea.

(I had to look up who this guy was)

Dec 20, 2017#165

Gruebeard

Frank said:
TJ Miller.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/silic...d-of-sexually-assaulting-and-punching-a-woman

From the article

The accusations were eventually addressed by a student court at George Washington University

Why the fuck does a University have a criminal court?

Dec 20, 2017#166

Chad Sexington

This is probably not super appropriate, but I have to say, I really love the title of this thread.

Dec 20, 2017#167

sixpackshaker

Gruebeard said:
From the article

Why the fuck does a University have a criminal court?

Because there are a lot of crimes committed on college campuses.

Dec 20, 2017#168

GasBandit

Gruebeard said:
Why the fuck does a University have a criminal court?

It's an ongoing source of disagreement.

Dec 20, 2017#169

Gruebeard

sixpackshaker said:
Because there are a lot of crimes committed on college campuses.

My question contained some hyperbole. That student court isn't actually a criminal court. It's not even a civil court. It's some silly process internal to the University.

Why the fuck were they handling an assault case?

Dec 20, 2017#170

GasBandit

Gruebeard said:
My question contained some hyperbole. That student court isn't actually a criminal court. It's not even a civil court. It's some silly process internal to the University.

Why the fuck were they handling an assault case?

As it said in the article I linked you, because often times prosecutors don't think they can get a conviction in "real" court based on the nature of how these things generally happen on campuses, and the campus courts have lower standards of guilt (they usually go by preponderance of evidence instead of "beyond any reasonable doubt"). I don't really necessarily agree with them, but that's one of the arguments they make. Local law enforcement is also usually happy to have the university share some of the load out of their own pocket instead of the city's budget.

Dec 20, 2017#171

PatrThom

Chad Sexington said:
This is probably not super appropriate, but I have to say, I really love the title of this thread.

Woo!

--Patrick

Dec 20, 2017#172

strawman

Many schools have "binding arbitration" that allows, if both parties agree to use it and abide by its ruling, for a different set of rules to apply. This is helpful for cases where something bad happens but the evidence is weak or the law is weak, as well as reducing costs, and shortening the timeline for resolution for "minor" cases. Lots of petty theft, roommate disagreements, etc are processed through such groups.

It's not meant to replace the criminal process, and technically the parties shouldn't be using it for criminal matters.

But if neither party provides evidence to the police and choose to engage in this sort of service, there's not a lot the law can do.

Dec 25, 2017#173

PatrThom

http://www.creepsheet.com/
Bills itself as "The most complete list of public figures accused of sexual harassment or assault"
I would start referring to it as "Jenny McCarthyism," but that would unfortunately bring more attention to Jenny McCarthy.
Oh, and re: my original assertion, Mick Jagger is not on this list.

--Patrick

Jan 14, 2018#174

Eriol

Eliza Dushku Says She Was Molested on True Lies Set When She Was 12

In a post on her Facebook account Saturday, Dushku also alleged that Joel Kramer, then 36, caused her to be injured on the set as payback for disclosing the alleged misconduct to a friend. Kramer denied the accusations as “lies” in trade publication interviews.

James Cameron has said he didn't know, and "Had I known about it, there would have been no mercy" according to the article. Interesting difference in this one is that she said she DID tell 3 people (her parents & 1 other) back then, and the "other" has confirmed such. I don't understand why they didn't come forward back then, but I also understand the "environment" of "who do you trust" and thus the difficulties as well.

Jan 14, 2018#175

Frank

That story is turbo hideous.

She was 12 and she got very badly hurt under his care after he was confronted about it.

Jan 14, 2018#176

PatrThom

When I heard the story, I was surprised that was Eliza Dushku in the film.

--Patrick

Jan 14, 2018#177

Dave

If my daughter had told me that Joel would have had a very interesting visit.

Jan 15, 2018#178

Eriol

This is "steering towards" the politics forum type of thing, but at the same time it's very intertwined with what's happening in this thread, so I'm putting it here.

Margaret Atwood (for those non-Canadians out there, she's the author who wrote the book The Handmaid's Tale of which the new TV series is based on) wrote an editorial about how she's been attacked as a "Bad Feminist" for saying that a process used against a Professor accused of sexual misconduct at UBC was unjust, as well as attacking the trend towards assumption of guilt: Am I a bad feminist?

For the record, I find her writing style in the editorial superb. This is a world-class writer as opposed to a reporter. She's using every word to the benefit of the argument. Well-crafted. I'd say she has a number of good points too. I particularly liked this:

Who will be the new power brokers? It won't be the Bad Feminists like me. We are acceptable neither to Right nor to Left. In times of extremes, extremists win. Their ideology becomes a religion, anyone who doesn't puppet their views is seen as an apostate, a heretic or a traitor, and moderates in the middle are annihilated.

And she's being attacked for writing the editorial now too: Margaret Atwood defends controversial op-ed unpacking #MeToo movement, feminism
I think that headline doesn't reflect the original editorial very well, though at the same time, the accusers don't seem to be reading the original editorial very well either IMO. But still, she's getting some heat from it.

Jan 15, 2018#179

figmentPez

Eriol said:
This is "steering towards" the politics forum type of thing, but at the same time it's very intertwined with what's happening in this thread, so I'm putting it here.

Margaret Atwood (for those non-Canadians out there, she's the author who wrote the book The Handmaid's Tale of which the new TV series is based on) wrote an editorial about how she's been attacked as a "Bad Feminist" for saying that a process used against a Professor accused of sexual misconduct at UBC was unjust, as well as attacking the trend towards assumption of guilt: Am I a bad feminist?

For the record, I find her writing style in the editorial superb. This is a world-class writer as opposed to a reporter. She's using every word to the benefit of the argument. Well-crafted. I'd say she has a number of good points too. I particularly liked this:

And she's being attacked for writing the editorial now too: Margaret Atwood defends controversial op-ed unpacking #MeToo movement, feminism
I think that headline doesn't reflect the original editorial very well, though at the same time, the accusers don't seem to be reading the original editorial very well either IMO. But still, she's getting some heat from it.

Some more choice quotes from her editorial:

(Regarding sexual assault allegations towards a former chair at University of British Columbia.)
"...Specifically, several years ago, the university went public in national media before there was an inquiry, and even before the accused was allowed to know the details of the accusation. Before he could find them out, he had to sign a confidentiality agreement. .... But then, after an inquiry by a judge that went on for months, with multiple witnesses and interviews, the judge said there had been no sexual assault, according to a statement released by Mr. Galloway through his lawyer. The employee got fired anyway."

....

"There are, at present, three kinds of 'witch' language. 1) Calling someone a witch, as applied lavishly to Hillary Clinton during the recent election. 2) 'Witchhunt,' used to imply that someone is looking for something that doesn't exist. 3) The structure of the Salem witchcraft trials, in which you were guilty because accused. I was talking about the third use."

Jan 16, 2018#180

GasBandit

Aziz Ansari... or is he?

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/the-humiliation-of-aziz-ansari/550541/

Jan 16, 2018#181

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
Aziz Ansari... or is he?

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/the-humiliation-of-aziz-ansari/550541/

That is a revolting story, and the editors at "Babe" should be ashamed of themselves. Regardless of the truth of the matter, that is not how journalists should behave.

Jan 16, 2018#182

GasBandit

Yep. It's come to this.

ROMANCE IS IN THE AIR

Jan 16, 2018#183

PatrThom

“Whereas the party of the first part did agree to put his part into the part of the party of the second part...”

—Patrick

Jan 16, 2018#184

Frank

You know consent for sex can be revoked at any time....so that app does nothing.

Jan 16, 2018#185

GasBandit

Frank said:
You know consent for sex can be revoked at any time....so that app does nothing.

Including days, weeks, or months after the fact, apparently.

Jan 16, 2018#186

blotsfan

Jan 16, 2018#187

PatrThom

blotsfan said:

Presumably that's always consensual.
One could argue otherwise, I guess, but I doubt it would hold up.

--Patrick

Jan 16, 2018#188

Frank

GasBandit said:
Including days, weeks, or months after the fact, apparently.

You would know better than me the veracity of that claim.

Jan 16, 2018#189

Ravenpoe

Hey, remember that time someone falsely accused someone of a crime, and then no one could ever accuse ever again because no one could apply logic and reasoning to ascertain whether a claim was valid or not, and the very concept of truth was forever erased from history?

What's that, that never happened? Say again, you're saying this is all hyperbole? What's that? I'm typing on a forum and so the bit about hearing a silent voice off stage makes no sense?

Huh, well then.

Jan 17, 2018#190

fade

Also, as much as I like Atwood, she's been drinking a bit much of her own Kool aid. Slippery slope arguments are quasi-fallacious because we have no proof or evidence that things will steadily trend worse. This is the pendulum being pulled back by extremists which will hopefully center it where it should be. This isn't to condone false allegations, but I doubt we're heading to a guilt by accusation situation. It feels like that right now because people are actually listening to allegations because of heavy societal pressure (for a change).

Jan 17, 2018#191

Gruebeard

fade said:
This isn't to condone false allegations, but I doubt we're heading to a guilt by accusation situation.

But she's not talking about what might happen in the future, just one single incident that did indeed happen.

And hey look! It was a University trying to mete out justice. They really suck at that.

Jan 19, 2018#192

Kovac

Frank said:
You know consent for sex can be revoked at any time....so that app does nothing.

The App requests that consent be refreshed every 30 seconds.

If confirmation of consent is not given, a notification is sent to the police.

Jan 24, 2018#193

figmentPez

Not a celebrity, but an abuser of celebrities (Olympians count as celebrities, right?): Larry Nassar sentenced to up to 175 years in prison for decades of sexual abuse

The asshole in question was physician for many Olympic gymnasts in the United States. Over 150 victims testified in court. Even after pleading guilty the scumbag tried to claim that what he did was good, and that he didn't deserve prison.

"Many of the women said that when they spoke up about the treatment, they were ignored or their concerns brushed aside by organizations in power, primarily USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University and the US Olympic Committee."

I hope that those people who ignored concerns will face trial as well.

"Michigan State University, the school I loved and trusted, had the audacity to tell me that I did not understand the difference between sexual assault and a medical procedure," Amanda Thomashow said in court. "That master manipulator took advantage of his title, he abused me, and when I found the strength to talk about what had happened I was ignored and my voice was silenced."

Jan 24, 2018#194

Dave

Fuck that guy and everyone who turned a blind eye.

Jan 26, 2018#195

Gared

Fuck every single god damn thing about this:

NCAA President Alerted to 37 Sexual Assault Cases Involving MSU Athletes, Did Nothing

I'm fucking done with this bullshit. I may never watch another college athletic competition again. How in the fuck is the rape of so many people just so callously discarded by so many fucking people?!

Jan 26, 2018#196

PatrThom

Gared said:
How in the fuck is the rape of so many people just so callously discarded by so many fucking people?!

Because Sports?

No, really. I think that because star athletes are supposed to be promoted as role models, much of the bad stuff gets hushed up, just as their seamy antics get explained away..."heat of the moment/to the victor the spoils/conquering heroes" and all that.

--Patrick

Jan 26, 2018#197

Gared

PatrThom said:
Because Sports?

No, really. I think that because star athletes are supposed to be promoted as role models, much of the bad stuff gets hushed up, just as their seamy antics get explained away..."heat of the moment/to the victor the spoils/conquering heroes" and all that.

--Patrick

It uh... it was a rhetorical question, Patrick.

But yeah, because sports. Although, really, eventually, in the end, it all boils down to "because they could."

Jan 26, 2018#198

PatrThom

Gared said:
"because they could."

Give 'em an inch, they'll take 7 yards and get a first down.

--Patrick

Jan 27, 2018#199

Bubble181

At the risk of quoting someone we don't want quoted - if you're a star, you can do anything. Grab'm by the pussy. Etc etc.

If you're important and well-regarded in a community - be it as a star player, as lead singer of a big band, a powerful politican, the priest of the village, what-have-you, it's easy for lawmakers/powerful people to look the other way, and to disbelief charges brought against you. A girl/woman lying for attention? Gosh, that hasn't been a trope for hundreds of years. Having to investigate - probably unpopularly - the misdeeds of someone looked up to or admired? No fun at all.
Combination of nepotism, fear, easy way out, perhaps a bit of the ole "American Dream" of "I can become as powerful/rich/successful as that person is now and I want to be able to reap the rewards as well",...

Jan 27, 2018#200

Gruebeard

Gared said:
Fuck every single god damn thing about this:

NCAA President Alerted to 37 Sexual Assault Cases Involving MSU Athletes, Did Nothing

I'm fucking done with this bullshit. I may never watch another college athletic competition again. How in the fuck is the rape of so many people just so callously discarded by so many fucking people?!

Oh, yet again, a University shows it should not be in the business of Justice.

Feb 2, 2018#201

GasBandit

Jess Cliffe, of Valve. Co-creator of Counter-Strike.

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/187622/valve_s-cliffe-arrested-suspended

Feb 2, 2018#202

PatrThom

Guess next we're going to go straight to HL18, then.

--Patrick

Feb 3, 2018#203

Frank

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/...ry.html?referer=https://t.co/MBS47RXiAz?amp=1

Feb 3, 2018#204

Hailey Knight

The footage is horrifying.

May 9, 2018#205

blotsfan

And the award for "quote with the least-self awareness" goes to...

May 9, 2018#206

Gared

blotsfan said:
And the award for "quote with the least-self awareness" goes to...

He wants to appeal their decision? Fine. Let him. Just make him do it in person.

May 24, 2018#207

blotsfan

May 24, 2018#208

GasBandit

blotsfan said:

God dammit I DON'T WANT ICE CREAM TO RAPE.

May 24, 2018#209

Gared

Wow. I have to admit, honestly, as much as I've publicly been "don't expect anyone to walk away clean from this," this one shakes me deep. Granted, there's been some local stuff going on - a nearby school district was sued (successfully) by the ACLU to get the principal fired for forcing openly LGBTQ students to read the bible as punishment and for ignoring their complaints of sexual assault. The superintendent admitted in the investigation to having known about it for years, and the principal's family was directly involved in bullying kids, while the district was found to have retaliated against teachers' and counselors' jobs when they attempted to stand up for the kids.

For right now, I'll try to keep in mind that this is just an allegation, but it ain't easy.

May 24, 2018#210

Fun Size

blotsfan said:

And be honest, the worst part is you read the headline in his voice.

Titty sprinkles.

May 24, 2018#211

Fun Size

Seriously though, I keep reading these articles and all I can think is how shocking it is that no one in the moment is like "Dude, what the fuck?". It's not just me right? If someone was acting the way they're describing at work, would you not ask what the fuck?

May 24, 2018#212

Dave

You know, I always wonder how much of this was just the 1950's Mad Men style culture. Was this going all Bill Cosby on women or was it just unwanted attention and pats on the butt? Like the whole Al Franken thing - it was completely blown out of proportion for politic's sake.

Because of shit like that makes me war with myself. On the one hand I believe the victims, but on the other he deserves to be heard before turned into a Richard Jewell.

May 24, 2018#213

Frank

There's a lot of nasty hearsay about Morgan Freeman (outside of these accusations) and he has multiple extramarital children. Dude doesn't exactly have good impulse control.

May 24, 2018#214

Dave

Yeah I started reading more on this and I'm not as conflicted as I had been. Seems he's had a reputation and pattern of behavior for quite a while now.

May 24, 2018#215

PatrThom

Frank said:
There's a lot of nasty hearsay about Morgan Freeman (outside of these accusations) and he has multiple extramarital children. Dude doesn't exactly have good impulse control.

<hesrightyouknow.jpg>

—Patrick

May 24, 2018#216

PatrThom

Dave said:
You know, I always wonder how much of this was just the 1950's Mad Men style culture. Was this going all Bill Cosby on women or was it just unwanted attention and pats on the butt? Like the whole Al Franken thing - it was completely blown out of proportion for politic's sake.

Because of shit like that makes me war with myself. On the one hand I believe the victims, but on the other he deserves to be heard before turned into a Richard Jewell.

Look, this is Hollywood we are talking about. And I know it is the current thing to go “AHA!” and grab a bag of rotten tomatoes and vilify those whose misdeeds have been uncovered (recently or otherwise), but in one way or another, literally EVERYTHING in Hollywood has been touched in some way by someone who touched someone else in that way, so if you’re going to shun/protest/rage against something because of its association with someone you recently started hating, then you will be left with literally NOTHING from the entire entertainment industry.

—Patrick

May 24, 2018#217

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Look, this is Hollywood we are talking about. And I know it is the current thing to go “AHA!” and grab a bag of rotten tomatoes and vilify those whose misdeeds have been uncovered (recently or otherwise), but in one way or another, literally EVERYTHING in Hollywood has been touched in some way by someone who touched someone else in that way, so if you’re going to shun/protest/rage against something because of its association with someone you recently started hating, then you will be left with literally NOTHING from the entire entertainment industry.

—Patrick

I mean, yeah... the hollywood casting couch has pretty much always been the literal symbol of inappropriate but de facto accepted sexual practices in the workplace between those with power and those seeking opportunity.

May 24, 2018#218

Gruebeard

Vancouver just recently announced that Morgan Freeman was gonna voice their transit announcements. I bet they're now all :aaah:

May 24, 2018#219

Hailey Knight

Police are seeking Harvey Weinstein's arrest. Reports are saying he's expected to surrender to the NYPD.

May 24, 2018#220

Dave

That took way too fucking long.

Jun 9, 2018#221

Cheesy1

John Lasseter, the co-founder of Pixar Animation Studios and the Walt Disney Co.'s animation chief, will step down at the end of the year after acknowledging "missteps" in his behavior with staff members.

Jun 9, 2018#222

Dave

Now this one surprises me, although since he's a studio exec I don't know why.

Jun 9, 2018#223

PatrThom

I’d heard his name mentioned, but didn’t know where he fell on the Franken<->Weinstein scale.

—Patrick

Jun 9, 2018#224

Gruebeard

The Franken-Weinstein scale . . . At one end: A guy writing in a scene where the woman is required to kiss him.

At the other end: A guy requiring the woman to fuck him so she can get an acting gig where she's gonna face that guy who writes in a scene requiring her to kiss him.

Jun 12, 2018#225

Eriol

Gruebeard said:
The Franken-Weinstein scale . . . At one end: A guy writing in a scene where the woman is required to kiss him.

At the other end: A guy requiring the woman to fuck him so she can get an acting gig where she's gonna face that guy who writes in a scene requiring her to kiss him.

He also groped her while she was unconscious (and took a picture of such), so hey, that matters too.

Jun 12, 2018#226

Gruebeard

Eriol said:
He also groped her while she was unconscious (and took a picture of such), so hey, that matters too.

Aye. I just didn't know off-hand of a shitty Weinstein act to compare that to.

. . . And besides, that should be somewhere in the middle of the scale.

Jun 12, 2018#227

Dave

Eriol said:
He also groped her while she was unconscious (and took a picture of such), so hey, that matters too.

He took a picture of pantomiming groping her. He never physically touched her. So totally the same as Weinstein.

Jun 12, 2018#228

@Li3n

Eriol said:
He also groped her while she was unconscious (and took a picture of such), so hey, that matters too.

She had kevlar on, and his hands are clearly hovering.

Jun 13, 2018#229

Tiger Tsang

@Li3n said:
She had kevlar on, and his hands are clearly hovering.

Shhhhhh, you're disrupting the narrative.

Jun 13, 2018#230

Eriol

Dave said:
He took a picture of pantomiming groping her. He never physically touched her. So totally the same as Weinstein.

Oh completely different than Weinstein, but putting him on the other end of the scale in the OP implies he did nothing wrong, which according to her accounts, is not the case at all.

Jun 13, 2018#231

@Li3n

Eriol said:
Oh completely different than Weinstein, but putting him on the other end of the scale in the OP implies he did nothing wrong, which according to her accounts, is not the case at all.

You do know scales can and do start at 1, right? Hell, they didn't even have 0 once upon a time, and they still used scales.

And when it comes to sexual assault it makes no sense to start at zero anyway...

Jun 13, 2018#232

Gruebeard

Eriol said:
Oh completely different than Weinstein, but putting him on the other end of the scale in the OP implies he did nothing wrong, which according to her accounts, is not the case at all.

I wasn't trying to imply he did nothing wrong. As @@Li3n said, I was starting the scale at 1 since the Franken-Weinstein scale in my mind measured "how scummy was the method used to press the actress into sexual contact."

If you're on the scale at all, you did something wrong.

Jun 13, 2018#233

Dei

I would put one at an awkward comment that was unintentional, rather than a clearly intentional attempt to make someone uncomfortable for laughs.

Jun 15, 2018#234

Frank

Glad I never cared for Chris Hardwick.

Typical narcissist behavior.

Jun 15, 2018#235

Gruebeard

Frank said:
Glad I never cared for Chris Hardwick.

Typical narcissist behavior.

I don't know what this is supposed to tell me. All I got when I clicked on that was a post where Chloe tells us she is a Taykin.

And now I wish I was a Taykin.

Jun 15, 2018#236

Tress

That was sad. I always liked Chris Hardwick; obviously this makes me completely reevaluate that.

Jun 15, 2018#237

Gruebeard

Gruebeard said:
I don't know what this is supposed to tell me. All I got when I clicked on that was a post where Chloe tells us she is a Taykin.

And now I wish I was a Taykin.

Thank you for asking, @figmentPez. Clicking on her username leads to Chloe's profile, where she declares "I’m a Taykin. For those who don’t know what that means, it means my body is a Chloe, but my heart and soul and mind is Taylor Swift."

Jun 15, 2018#238

GasBandit

Gruebeard said:
Thank you for asking, @figmentPez. Clicking on her username leads to Chloe's profile, where she declares "I’m a Taykin. For those who don’t know what that means, it means my body is a Chloe, but my heart and soul and mind is Taylor Swift."

Jun 15, 2018#239

figmentPez

Gruebeard said:
Thank you for asking, @figmentPez. Clicking on her username leads to Chloe's profile, where she declares "I’m a Taykin. For those who don’t know what that means, it means my body is a Chloe, but my heart and soul and mind is Taylor Swift."

Apr 1, 2016

That's not her profile, that's an article listed in her profile that was an April Fools gag.

EDIT: I'm kinda wondering if your browser is rendering the webpage correctly, if you missed the actual linked article where she talks about the abusive relationship she was in.

Jun 15, 2018#240

Hailey Knight

Gruebeard said:
I don't know what this is supposed to tell me. All I got when I clicked on that was a post where Chloe tells us she is a Taykin.

And now I wish I was a Taykin.

Rose-Colored Glasses: A Confession.
(Trigger warning: If abuse, sexual assault, or anorexia makes you uncomfortable, you might want to avoid this one.)

Over the years, I’ve attempted to write this, quite literally, 17 times. I’ve spoken to friends, therapists, lawyers, publicists. The drafts have ranged from cathartic, angry letters to litigious, hardened accounts of inexcusable treatment. Until I got one piece of advice from a friend: Write from your heart. You’ll know it’s right when it’s right. So, here I go.

I’ve struggled with such a great fear of talking publicly about my experience with long-term abuse. There’s an explicit danger- putting my personal and professional reputation on the line.

It’s so easy to make judgments about someone you don’t know personally, or maybe do know personally, but not well. It’s the same both ways. “Did they, didn’t they?” I’m here to tell my story, not necessarily intending to point my finger at the man who did it (though that may be an unfortunate consequence for him), but for a different reason.

Admittedly, there’s still an anger inside of me. An anger at him, an anger at myself for letting myself fall into the trap and being naïve enough to stay there. But after hours and hours of thought, I‘ve finally come to the conclusion of what I want this to be.

I want this to be two things. Number One: Closure. I’m approaching my thirties, finding stability, and quite simply, I want this out of me. But more importantly, Number Two: A warning.

Emotional abuse is a very common thing. More common than you’d think.

Here is my story.

In my early twenties, I was a vibrant, goofy kid who loved video games, Doctor Who, dressing up in cosplay with my friends, and karaoke nights. One day, I met someone at a convention and ended up falling for a man almost 20 years my senior. It wasn’t the first time I’d found myself in a relationship with an older man; I’ve always joked about my daddy issues, and thought that with age came stability and wisdom. Welp.

Our relationship started out poorly. Within 2 weeks, rules were quickly established. Some of these included:

I “should not want to go somewhere at night”. My nights were expected to be reserved for him, as he had a busy schedule. This alienated me from my friends.
I was to not have close male friends unless we worked together. All photos of male friends were to be removed from my apartment. This was heartbreaking for me, as my best friend happened to be male.
As he was sober, I was not to drink alcohol. Before we began dating he said, “I noticed you have a glass of wine with dinner. That’s going to stop.”
I was not to speak in public places (elevators, cars with drivers, restaurants where tables were too close) as he believed that people recognized him and were listening to our conversations. Our dinners out were usually silent, him on his phone.
I wasn’t allowed to take a photo of us. (Eventually, he softened on this rule, but was very stern about me asking permission.)

These were just a few of them. And I made the choice to accept his controlling behavior, as he’d just left his long-term girlfriend and I assumed that he was going through some serious emotional discomfort. This was a huge mistake.

Our first convention together, San Diego Comic Con, he instructed me to not leave the hotel room. He went to parties by himself and got a famous actress’s number with intention to date her at the same time as me. I found out months later, and couldn’t bring myself to say anything because by this time, my self-worth was in the toilet.

I was quickly pressured to take an on-camera job at his company I didn’t want (I do not like to work for my significant others), because he insinuated I would be ungrateful to not accept it. Scared to upset him, I accepted the job, but I refused payment for my work, feeling uncomfortable about the whole thing (though the lovely folks at his company eventually forced me to take a check). By this time, like I said, I was terrified to piss him off- so I did what he said.

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

What I wanted was a partner, someone to confide in, someone to share things with, someone who wouldn’t judge me, someone I knew would be there for me. What I felt that this man wanted was a woman who would feed him, sleep with him, and go to events with him.

I watched and supported him as he grew from a mildly successful podcaster to a powerhouse CEO of his own company. He was obsessed with celebrity, being famous, famous people. He did not spend any time with people he considered “friends”, and only really made time for industry people who he considered “worth it”. I, myself, had very little personal support, as I’d been alienated from my own friends, other than an occasional party I was obligated to leave early when he decided it was time. Sometimes he’d let me go play D&D, but I always had a curfew. He would yell in his voicemails at me if I didn’t answer his calls. I was expected to follow him everywhere and exist pretty much solely for him, save for a hosting job once in awhile.

When cameras were on us? He was a prince. Turn them off, he was a nightmare.

One of my “progress” shots.
During all of this I lost myself, both mentally and physically. I lost 15 lbs within weeks, started pulling out my hair (and had to get extensions regularly to hide it). I generally stopped speaking unless spoken to while with him, drifting through life like a ghost. I would try to sleep in as late as possible so my days were shorter. I stopped listening to music entirely. I ceased to be. I was an ex-person.

No one could save me but myself. After three years of being snapped/yelled at constantly, very rarely being shown any affection- I finally left him. For another man. That I had literally just met. I was so desperate to be out I just clung on to the first knight in shining armor to show up.

Unfortunately, there was a slight crossover: a kiss. A kiss I immediately told him about, and he, surprisingly, instantly forgave me. Turned a total 180. He begged me not to leave him, even told me he was planning to propose; despite stating previously he had no intention to marry me. I knew this all stemmed from his fear of being alone (He actually got engaged very shortly after I left him) so luckily I remained strong in my resolve to leave him, despite my only desire for three years being that he loved me the way I loved him.

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career. The woman actively made it her mission to destroy my friendships. And she did, because by the time they’d realized she was… an unreliable source… the damage had already been done. To be fair, in break-ups like this one, some friends will just naturally gravitate towards the person who wields more power (and the ability to employ them), especially in the business I’m in- despite whatever history exists. Still, there’s so much more to that woman’s story (including 6 other women whose reputations/careers she attempted to sabotage) but I don’t want to digress too far from my point, which is abusive relationships, not friendships. This time in my life was agony.

One night, I found myself on top of an overpass, looking down at the 101, at the lowest point in my life. I’d lost many of my friends, the woman I’d considered my sister was trying to destroy me and I had no idea why, and the career I’d built from scratch had toppled- I was blacklisted from my industry at the age of 25.

Obviously, I didn’t go through with it, but over the years I considered it many times. With the help of a therapist, a psychiatrist, good people, plus a lot of hard work, I’ve managed to rebuild my life and I’m in a much better place. I’ve got a wonderful group of friends, a healthy career, a film I’m proud of, a show I’m proud of, two wonderful dogs, a house I own, and a bright future (at least, in my eyes).

But I never received closure. For the long-lasting trauma, physical and emotional. For the time I was screamed at for spilling some bottled water in a rental car. For the time I asked him if he “was okay” one too many times. For the time I gasped at a cute puppy and I was punished for startling him. For how cold and unkind he was to me 90% of the time. For losing the life and friendships I’d built because of his insecurities. For blaming me for leaving him when he was never there in the first place, except when he wanted sex.

I’ll leave you with this: I lost my period for a year because of anorexia. Somehow, I got pregnant ectopically (I was told I’d have to have surgery IMMEDIATELY because ectopic pregnancies are very dangerous and can often be fatal)- when I found out, I collapsed on the floor, terrified he would be furious with me. Between sobs I told him over the phone, “Please don’t be mad, and don’t worry, I have to have surgery to have it removed or it could kill me at any time.”

My fear of his anger at me for getting pregnant was literally greater than my fear of death.

Let me add here: I’ll never forget the night this man slept in a cot at the foot of my hospital bed after my surgery. It made me believe that deep down inside of him maybe there was a man who loved me.

Then, after my recovery, he and my mother were greeted by the doctor.

“The surgery went well, she’ll be fine,” said my doctor.

“Thank god,” said my mother.

“That’s great. When do you think I can have sex with her again?” said my ex.

It was his first question. My mother never forgot.

While we were together, he repeatedly shared with me that he was terrified I would talk publicly about how he treated me, but I’m done protecting him at the expense of my own mental health. He talked about me publicly, incorrectly speculating loudly and regularly that I was sleeping around on him, on multiple occasions (once in front of an audience of thousands at a convention). It got so bad I ended up having to ask my lawyer write his a letter. Meanwhile, publicly, I continually tried to go high while he went low. Also at the time, I knew it was unlikely people would choose to believe me over a cheery-sounding famous guy. All it would do to properly come forward was hurt me. And guess what? It will probably hurt me now too, despite the #MeToo movement. We’ve come a long way, but we still have a ways to go.

You know, perhaps this post could be construed as me going low when I should be going high, but I’d like to think Michelle Obama would support me in this… Because I’m not alone. This kind of relationship is so common, and so easy to slip into. Normalizing behavior happens incredibly quickly, and one can lose track of what is acceptable treatment.

And that’s the big question, isn’t it? If this person treated you so badly why did you stay?

Your guesses will probably include:

It wasn’t that bad. Memories can warp.
He was famous. She enjoyed the lifestyle. (For the record, I usually insisted on paying for dinner, thank you very much.)
She was dumb and/or weak and didn’t have the strength to stand up to him.

Here is my answer: I believed that, to borrow an analogy from a friend, if I kept digging I would find water. And sometimes I did. Just enough to sustain me. And when you’re dying of thirst, that water is the best water you’ll ever drink. When you’re alienated from your friends, there’s no one to tell you that there’s a drinking fountain 20 feet away. And when your self-worth reaches such depths after years of being treated like you’re worthless, you might find you think you deserve that sort of treatment, and no one else will love you.

This story, post, whatever this is, serves as both closure for me as I say farewell to my twenties and stumble my way into my thirties, and it serves as a warning for every single one of you, regardless of gender. One of my favorite quotes comes from Bojack Horseman:

“You know, it’s funny; when you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.”

Please, please, keep an eye out for those red flags.

Signed,

Former Trophy Girlfriend/Ghost — Chloe Dykstra

PS: To the man who tried to ruin my future: A sincere and heartfelt apology could have made my last four years a hell of a lot easier. The person I used to date would try to sue me due to pride- I would not recommend it. I have audio/video that will support and prove many of the things I’ve stated in this post. I’ve chosen not to include it for your sake, in the hopes that the person you’ve become will do the right thing.

Jun 16, 2018#241

LittleKagsin

I’m in a rage about the response people are having to Chloe’s post.

I just saw an article about Chris responding and nearly ALL of the comments are calling Chloe a liar, a bitter whore, jealous, saying things like the relationships wasn’t even abuse??? I’m pissed.

As someone who knows Chloe personally, I am beyond disgusted. This is why victims don’t want to talk about things. Everyone willing to turn a blind eye just because they like the accused - seriously the amount comments mentioning his career and how they love him on whatever show is wild - is genuinely upsetting to me.

I’m so fucking mad.

Jun 16, 2018#242

Dave

Weird. Not sure where you are looking but everywhere I've seen is being very supportive of Chloe. I haven't seen Chris's response, though, so maybe it's the people there.

Jun 16, 2018#243

LittleKagsin

Dave said:
Weird. Not sure where you are looking but everywhere I've seen is being very supportive of Chloe. I haven't seen Chris's response, though, so maybe it's the people there.

I know my perspective is slightly skewed in that her and I share a lot of the same friend groups, so a lot of the support I’ve seen has been from friends and people I know. From my perspective the general public is turning against her. There’s a lot of #istandwithchris floating around on Twitter as well.

And I’m sure support for Chris is directly related to that article being about his response. But that doesn’t make me any less mad about what is being said.

Jun 16, 2018#244

Celt Z

Dave said:
Weird. Not sure where you are looking but everywhere I've seen is being very supportive of Chloe. I haven't seen Chris's response, though, so maybe it's the people there.

I've seen a few on some different sites. While the majority have been supportive, I've still seen comments that question her career, herself, and at least one "how dare she ruin his career". Luckily, other people have told those commenters where to shove it.

Jun 16, 2018#245

Gruebeard

figmentPez said:
Apr 1, 2016

That's not her profile, that's an article listed in her profile that was an April Fools gag.

EDIT: I'm kinda wondering if your browser is rendering the webpage correctly, if you missed the actual linked article where she talks about the abusive relationship she was in.

I have since figured out that the media embed Patrick posted has links to at least 3 different pages that can be clicked (pressed, actually, as I'm on a tablet), but my first tries all led to her profile or Medium's home page, never to the article.

Jun 16, 2018#246

figmentPez

Hardwick is scheduled to be the moderator for the Doctor Who panel at SDCC. The first panel for the new cast with the first female Doctor. The BBC has one month to wise-up and get a more appropriate moderator.

Jun 16, 2018#247

figmentPez

Gruebeard said:
I have since figured out that the media embed Patrick posted has links to at least 3 different pages that can be clicked (pressed, actually, as I'm on a tablet), but my first tries all led to her profile or Medium's home page, never to the article.

Yeah, well regardless of technical difficulties, you know the topic of this thread, and it was kinda inappropriate for you to derail the issue like that.

Jun 16, 2018#248

Gruebeard

LittleKagsin said:
I’m in a rage about the response people are having to Chloe’s post.

I just saw an article about Chris responding and nearly ALL of the comments are calling Chloe a liar, a bitter whore, jealous, saying things like the relationships wasn’t even abuse??? I’m pissed.

As someone who knows Chloe personally, I am beyond disgusted. This is why victims don’t want to talk about things. Everyone willing to turn a blind eye just because they like the accused - seriously the amount comments mentioning his career and how they love him on whatever show is wild - is genuinely upsetting to me.

I’m so fucking mad.

I forget which Celebrity harasser it was, but when the accusations against him first came out, a group of women he had worked with (I think they were at SNL) put out some some sort of public announcement supporting the guy, saying "he never treated us like that."

Just idiotic.

Jun 16, 2018#249

Frank

His response is pretty typical from folks that are like that. There's not just a denial, he just continues to let her know she's nothing.

Jun 16, 2018#250

Kovac

In the places I have been looking the vast majority of people have been entirely supportive of Chloe. Many saying that Chris should be removed from all of his shows.

But then I have mostly been looking at reddit so I suppose that the comments suggesting otherwise may have already been voted down before I got to them.

Jun 16, 2018#251

PatrThom

Gruebeard said:
the media embed Patrick posted

...eh?

--Patrick

Jun 16, 2018#252

Gruebeard

PatrThom said:
...eh?

--Patrick

My memory insisted you posted what Frank did, and I was too lazy to verify. You'd think I'd have learned not to trust my memory, but I keep forgetting that lesson.

Jun 16, 2018#253

figmentPez

figmentPez said:
Hardwick is scheduled to be the moderator for the Doctor Who panel at SDCC. The first panel for the new cast with the first female Doctor. The BBC has one month to wise-up and get a more appropriate moderator.

Chris Hardwick will no longer moderate AMC and BBC America panels at Comic-Con next month.

And his show will not air on AMC while they investigate.

EDIT: Also, the Nerdist has scrubbed his name from their sites and no longer list him as a founder.

Jun 16, 2018#254

@Li3n

Dei said:
I would put one at an awkward comment that was unintentional, rather than a clearly intentional attempt to make someone uncomfortable for laughs.

Wait, are you seriously saying we should consider misunderstandings as part of a sexual assault scale?

Jun 16, 2018#255

LittleKagsin

Maybe it’s just Facebook with all the vitriol because there, all the comments are against her and I don’t understand.

Someone said her story was too specific with examples of things and how she felt and someone else responded with ‘she’s had years to come up with this story. Now that Chris is successful, she wants to take that away from him. It’s clearly made up.’ AND I AM MAD. Like what?? K.

It’s taking all I have to not go after everyone, because I know that won’t help, but I’m upset. I’m glad you all have seen people defending her. :heart:

Jun 16, 2018#256

Gruebeard

@Li3n said:
Wait, are you seriously saying we should consider misunderstandings as part of a sexual assault scale?

What @Dei describes certainly belongs on a scale that measures sexual harassment.

I wouldn't put what she describes on my Franken-Weinstein scale since I specifically marked the low end with Franken pressuring his performing partner into excessive rehearsals involving sexual contact . . . which interestingly enough could actually be the result of misunderstanding, as Franken might have honestly considered the rehearsals reasonable while she didn't (but felt pressured into more because he was the Celebrity).

So, uh, yeah. I'm seriously saying that misunderstandings can be placed on a sexual assault scale.

Jun 16, 2018#257

@Li3n

LittleKagsin said:
Someone said her story was too specific with examples of things and how she felt

Oh, of course, she remembers too much...

Heh.

Gruebeard said:
What @Dei describes certainly belongs on a scale that measures sexual harassment.

I wouldn't put what she describes on my Franken-Weinstein scale since I specifically marked the low end with Franken pressuring his performing partner into excessive rehearsals involving sexual contact . . . which interestingly enough could actually be the result of misunderstanding, as Franken might have honestly considered the rehearsals reasonable while she didn't (but felt pressured into more because he was the Celebrity).

So, uh, yeah. I'm seriously saying that misunderstandings can be placed on a sexual assault scale.

Eh... as i recall he changed the script to include a kiss, which was the issue, not rehearsing the scenes.

Jun 16, 2018#258

figmentPez

LittleKagsin said:
Maybe it’s just Facebook with all the vitriol because there, all the comments are against her and I don’t understand.

Someone said her story was too specific with examples of things and how she felt and someone else responded with ‘she’s had years to come up with this story. Now that Chris is successful, she wants to take that away from him. It’s clearly made up.’ AND I AM MAD. Like what?? K.

It’s taking all I have to not go after everyone, because I know that won’t help, but I’m upset. I’m glad you all have seen people defending her.

Kags is right. There are people going out of their way to spread hate.

Here is a screenshot from Ms Dykstra's FB page. These are new comments on a post that's over three months old:

Hate on a Facebook post from February.PNG

And that's just what shows up right at the top of an old post.

Jun 16, 2018#259

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Kags is right. There are people going out of their way to spread hate.

Here is a screenshot from Ms Dykstra's FB page. These are new comments on a post that's over three months old:
View attachment 27057

And that's just what shows up right at the top of an old post.

Goddamn Robin Pruitt is a complete shitbag.

Jun 16, 2018#260

LittleKagsin

Ravenpoe said:
Goddamn Robin Pruitt is a complete shitbag.

YEP. That’s pretty much the typical response I’ve been seeing.

Jun 16, 2018#261

Frank

LittleKagsin said:
I’m in a rage about the response people are having to Chloe’s post.

I just saw an article about Chris responding and nearly ALL of the comments are calling Chloe a liar, a bitter whore, jealous, saying things like the relationships wasn’t even abuse??? I’m pissed.

As someone who knows Chloe personally, I am beyond disgusted. This is why victims don’t want to talk about things. Everyone willing to turn a blind eye just because they like the accused - seriously the amount comments mentioning his career and how they love him on whatever show is wild - is genuinely upsetting to me.

I’m so fucking mad.

Your response seems VERY typical of people that run in similar social circles as her. Unanimously believing her. People that know them both seem to be on her side 100%

The internet just sucks so bad.

Jun 16, 2018#262

jwhouk

Kinda sounds like both sides had some problems in this relationship. Unfortunately, we can't have something like that happening in this world today, so we have what we have.

Jun 16, 2018#263

Frank

Just normal problematic break-up stuff, like blacklisting a career.

Jun 16, 2018#264

jwhouk

Frank said:
Just normal problematic break-up stuff, like blacklisting a career.

Sadly.

I was going to dredge up something about a former senator from a former state where I formerly lived, but that would probably put me on some sort of blacklist.

Jul 8, 2018#265

figmentPez

Jul 9, 2018#266

drawn_inward

figmentPez said:

That's just weird. WTF is wrong with celebrities? If you knew Weinstein was scum why not just snub him or ignore him? Did he piss on his hand and then offered a piss-dripping hand to Weinstein? Really? I doubt it. Besides, if you've shook hands with 10 guys, you've probably shook at least 7 piss hands.
BTW, this isn't in defense of Weinstein. It's just pointing out how childish and dumb that story from Perlman is.

Jul 9, 2018#267

Dave

And how fake it probably is.

The problem is that Weinwtein had the power over people's careers. People who crossed him were blacklisted and lost their gigs. Snubbing was probably not something he was in a position to do.

Jul 9, 2018#268

@Li3n

It sounds too stupid to be made up imo.

And really sad, since his only avenue of "revenge" was a school yard prank....

Jul 9, 2018#269

Celt Z

Yeah. Everyone knows this only really works if you use chocolate-covered pretzels.

Jul 17, 2018#270

figmentPez

Not Hollywood, but a STEM conference on herpetology:
Risque photos cause controversy at turtle and fish conference

A scientist, who is reported to be known as pervy, gave a presentation as part of accepting the Herpetologists' League annual award for Distinguished Herpetologist. His presentation slides included photos of research assistants that were so racy they were censored by staff setting up the presentation. He also included lots of innuendo in his speech, and photos of turtles having sex, despite the fact that he was not speaking about turtle reproduction.

Jul 17, 2018#271

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Not Hollywood, but a STEM conference on herpetology:
Risque photos cause controversy at turtle and fish conference

A scientist, who is reported to be known as pervy, gave a presentation as part of accepting the Herpetologists' League annual award for Distinguished Herpetologist. His presentation slides included photos of research assistants that were so racy they were censored by staff setting up the presentation. He also included lots of innuendo in his speech, and photos of turtles having sex, despite the fact that he was not speaking about turtle reproduction.

Ok, I can't speak on the research assistants because they're not shown, but the slides with random pictures of turtles humping is hilarious.

Jul 18, 2018#272

Timmus

Guy's name is Dick though, so I don't know what else people expected.

Jul 19, 2018#273

figmentPez

This shouldn't come as a surprise, but Papa John's founder John Schattner isn't just a racist asshole, he's a sexually harassing racist asshole.

The Inside Story Of Papa John's Toxic Culture

"Based on interviews with 37 current and former Papa John’s employees—including numerous executives and board members—Schnatter’s alleged behavior ranges from spying on his workers to sexually inappropriate conduct, which has resulted in at least two confidential settlements. "

Jul 19, 2018#274

DarkAudit

figmentPez said:
This shouldn't come as a surprise, but Papa John's founder John Schattner isn't just a racist asshole, he's a sexually harassing racist asshole.

The Inside Story Of Papa John's Toxic Culture

"Based on interviews with 37 current and former Papa John’s employees—including numerous executives and board members—Schnatter’s alleged behavior ranges from spying on his workers to sexually inappropriate conduct, which has resulted in at least two confidential settlements. "

The local store is trying to distance themselves from corporate. Their sign out front says "We are independently owned," in big letters now.

Jul 19, 2018#275

figmentPez

Rumor has it that Papa John's and Wendy's were planning a merger before all this went down. You've got to screw up big time if Wendy's doesn't want to deal with your bad image problems.

Jul 19, 2018#276

Gared

I've been watching the Uber catastrophe unfold - now there's a company that's got some image problems, and more.

Jul 19, 2018#277

drifter

figmentPez said:
Rumor has it that Papa John's and Wendy's were planning a merger before all this went down. You've got to screw up big time if Wendy's doesn't want to deal with your bad image problems.

I guess I haven’t been paying attention, what ‘s the deal with Wendy’s?

Jul 19, 2018#278

figmentPez

drifter said:
I guess I haven’t been paying attention, what ‘s the deal with Wendy’s?

They got rid of spicy chicken nuggets!

But seriously, I think it's mostly standard fast food franchise underhandedness. Non-compete agreements to avoid paying higher wages, cutting hours in order to avoid paying benefits, etc. The exception is that they're one of the major holdout restaurants refusing to join the Fair Food Program, which is supposed to help fight sexual violence suffered by female produce harvesters, the poster vegetable being tomatoes. They've changed suppliers rather than deal with growers who are part of the program.

Jul 20, 2018#279

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
Non-compete agreements to avoid paying higher wages

For anyone who hasn't heard about this:
Regulators Investigate Fast-Food Chains' Limits On Whom They Hire
Basically it's not the workers who sign the noncompete agreements, but the franchisees, with the net effect that if you leave one restaurant, you won't be hired by any of the others...and they won't be obligated to tell you that it's because they have signed noncompete agreements between themselves rather than trying to coerce you into signing one.

--Patrick

Jul 20, 2018#280

strawman

So... a reverse union?

Jul 20, 2018#281

@Li3n

stienman said:
So... a reverse union?

I think we call that a company...

Jul 20, 2018#282

Denbrought

stienman said:
So... a reverse union?

EXCEPT.

Jul 20, 2018#283

Eriol

stienman said:
So... a reverse union?

The word you're all looking for I think is "cartel"

Jul 20, 2018#284

PatrThom

stienman said:
So... a reverse union?

Not “reverse” so much as “anti.”

—Patrick

Jul 20, 2018#285

Gared

Guardians of the Galaxy are going to need a new director.

Jul 21, 2018#286

Eriol

Gared said:
Guardians of the Galaxy are going to need a new director.

I'm not posting an opinion on the guy, but it's not the same thing as this thread IMO. He hasn't been accused of groping, sexually harassing, or raping anybody, just saying stupid shut publicly. You may want the MCU phase 3 thread.

Jul 21, 2018#287

Hailey Knight

It's in three or four threads. I think everyone had different ideas on where the news belonged.

Jul 21, 2018#288

Gared

Eriol said:
I'm not posting an opinion on the guy, but it's not the same thing as this thread IMO. He hasn't been accused of groping, sexually harassing, or raping anybody, just saying stupid shut publicly. You may want the MCU phase 3 thread.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to go ahead and leave it here, what with the whole "I like it when little boys touch me in my silly place," comment. He may not have been accused of groping or raping anyone - yet - but I'd say this is egregious enough. And if you don't, well, too bad.

Jul 21, 2018#289

@Li3n

Because, as we all know, pedos normally announce their crimes on public forums...

Jul 21, 2018#290

Gared

@Li3n said:
Because, as we all know, pedos normally announce their crimes on public forums...

Ok, you know what, you're right. Since I have no personal experience with serial molesters, and never saw them personally brag about how frequently they molested me and my friends, and kept fucking getting away with it for over a fucking decade, they never brag about stuff like that on public forums. Just keep standing up for the scumbags.

Jul 21, 2018#291

figmentPez

Gared said:
Ok, you know what, you're right. Since I have no personal experience with serial molesters, and never saw them personally brag about how frequently they molested me and my friends, and kept fucking getting away with it for over a fucking decade, they never brag about stuff like that on public forums. Just keep standing up for the scumbags.

Or, James Gunn could also be an abuse victim, who developed a twisted sense of humor as a coping mechanism. Still doesn't make it right to make such jokes, but there are other conclusions that can be reached besides "James Gunn must be an abuser".

Jul 21, 2018#292

Gared

figmentPez said:
Or, James Gunn could also be an abuse victim, who developed a twisted sense of humor as a coping mechanism. Still doesn't make it right to make such jokes, but there are other conclusions that can be reached besides "James Gunn must be an abuser".

He could be. If he is, as shit of a thing as it sounds like to say, he should be a better victim. You can choose not to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. A great way to do that is to not joke about it. But, in my copious amount of personal experience, when someone says they like to abuse people, you should at least look into the allegations and not just brush them off as jokes in poor taste.

Jul 21, 2018#293

figmentPez

Gared said:
He could be. If he is, as shit of a thing as it sounds like to say, he should be a better victim. You can choose not to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. A great way to do that is to not joke about it. But, in my copious amount of personal experience, when someone says they like to abuse people, you should at least look into the allegations and not just brush them off as jokes in poor taste.

How am I supposed to look into allegations when there aren't any being made by people who actually have knowledge of Gunn's life? None of the news stories I've read have suggested that he did more than just make tasteless jokes. If you can point me to some evidence, I'd gladly listen, and I certainly wouldn't object to law enforcement or Disney taking a deeper look into his past, but I'm not about to jump to conclusions that I have no way of substantiating.

Jul 21, 2018#294

Gared

figmentPez said:
How am I supposed to look into allegations when there aren't any being made by people who actually have knowledge of Gunn's life? None of the news stories I've read have suggested that he did more than just make tasteless jokes. If you can point me to some evidence, I'd gladly listen, and I certainly wouldn't object to law enforcement or Disney taking a deeper look into his past, but I'm not about to jump to conclusions that I have no way of substantiating.

Sorry, not "you" FigmentPez, "you" people in authority (like his employer, who has terminated him). All I'm saying here, is that the dismissive attitude of "it was just a joke, bro, lighten up," or "no one would seriously joke about this stuff if they were really doing it," is EXACTLY why the #metoo movement was (and still very much is) necessary in the first place. Because for decades - decades - people like me have been speaking up, and no one would believe us, even when our abusers were bragging about their actions - how much they were able to get away with, how much they liked little boys, all of this shit - and no one would believe us when we complained or them when they fucking admitted it. If someone tells you (again, the general you), point blank, without provocation or prodding from you, that they like to commit any type of crime, I would hope that you would report them, at the very least.

Jul 21, 2018#295

Hailey Knight

My issue with this is that this was brought to Disney's attention years ago and they didn't have a problem with it. Then the alt right brings it up again and suddenly Disney cares. I'm hoping it's because back then most people didn't know who James Gunn was and now Disney feels they have something to lose by letting him stay, and not because Disney is more likely to cater to the alt right.

Jul 21, 2018#296

PatrThom

Hailey Zero Mission said:
Disney is more likely to cater to the alt right.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time.

--Patrick

Jul 22, 2018#297

@Li3n

Gared said:
Ok, you know what, you're right. Since I have no personal experience with serial molesters, and never saw them personally brag about how frequently they molested me and my friends, and kept fucking getting away with it for over a fucking decade, they never brag about stuff like that on public forums. Just keep standing up for the scumbags.

Jeus fuck, where do you guys live?

Jul 22, 2018#298

Gared

@Li3n said:
Jeus fuck, where do you guys live?

America, of course.

Jul 23, 2018#299

Eriol

Gared said:
I'm sorry, but I'm going to go ahead and leave it here, what with the whole "I like it when little boys touch me in my silly place," comment. He may not have been accused of groping or raping anyone - yet - but I'd say this is egregious enough. And if you don't, well, too bad.

Didn't see that one, Just the one linked in the article. Didn't go digging through his history (I have better things to do than diving through people's disgusting comments). I'd still say that this thread should be "this person is accused by X person of groping/etc" and not "these people are sexual scumbags due to what they've said," but YMMV of course.

Aug 8, 2018#300

figmentPez

Meagan Marie, a cosplayer and Senior Community Manager for Tomb Raider & the Avengers Project at Crystal Dynamics, has made a post about her experiences at Riot Games (League of Legends) and the harassment culture that's present there.

Some of the notable points:
- She was asked about when she lost her virginity at a company dinner, and pressed for details about her sex life.
- When assigned to an otherwise all male team, they were called "Bros and Ho" even after she objected.
- There were developers who sought to take advantage of young fans.
- A developer talked in detail about how he was going to rape his roommate on a business trip.
- Same developer hazed a new hire by texting new hire's GF and asking her if she was DTF.
- Numerous cases of harassing cosplayers, including those hired by them to promote their game.
- and a lot more.

After she submitted her resignation, female coworkers shared their experiences with her, "I was told more horror stories, discovering that some of them had been physically touched, cornered in shared vehicles, and faced professional retaliation for turning down advances. "

Aug 8, 2018#301

Frank

More on that. A massive, exhaustive 6 month indepth bit of journalism from Kotaku writer Cecilia D'Anastasio goes into great depths about what kind of a shit show Riot Games is.

https://kotaku.com/inside-the-culture-of-sexism-at-riot-games-1828165483

28 verified sources cited in the article. It's long.

Clifford Blesinski, noted brotastic bro man who's notable achievements post Epic Games include notifying the staff at the studio he founded that they were all out of a job via Twitter had this to say about this massive long bit of ACTUAL games journalism:

When pressed about why he's dismissing so many accounts as garbage, he decided to double down and declare that anybody who takes money for doing a job is no longer credible.

Then, when piled on by the whole of his industry, he made a half-assed apology and made it all about himself.

Aug 9, 2018#302

@Li3n

figmentPez said:
Meagan Marie, a cosplayer and Senior Community Manager for Tomb Raider & the Avengers Project at Crystal Dynamics, has made a post about her experiences at Riot Games (League of Legends) and the harassment culture that's present there.

Some of the notable points:
- She was asked about when she lost her virginity at a company dinner, and pressed for details about her sex life.
- When assigned to an otherwise all male team, they were called "Bros and Ho" even after she objected.
- There were developers who sought to take advantage of young fans.
- A developer talked in detail about how he was going to rape his roommate on a business trip.
- Same developer hazed a new hire by texting new hire's GF and asking her if she was DTF.
- Numerous cases of harassing cosplayers, including those hired by them to promote their game.
- and a lot more.

After she submitted her resignation, female coworkers shared their experiences with her, "I was told more horror stories, discovering that some of them had been physically touched, cornered in shared vehicles, and faced professional retaliation for turning down advances. "

Hey now, that's just them making sure they understand their fanbase... cyka blyat...

Aug 9, 2018#303

figmentPez

Well, Lindsay Lohan is a bigger piece of trash than I would have imagined, (but I also missed when she defended Weinstein last year).

“I’m going to really hate myself for saying this,” Lohan told interviewer Simon Mills, “but I think by women speaking against all these things, it makes them look weak when they are very strong women.”

“You have these girls who come out, who don’t even know who they are, who do it for the attention,”

“If it happens at that moment, you discuss it at that moment,” she added. “You make it a real thing by making it a police report.”

What an asshole.

Aug 9, 2018#304

Cajungal

"Don't even know who they are." She's describing herself in just a couple more years. Maybe three now that she's bumped herself with this nonsense. Anything for attention, I guess.

On the other hand, I wonder who hurt her. I wonder if she's got a ton of harrassment experiences under her own belt and takes some weird pride in bearing the burden. Like it's a reasonable rite of passage.

Aug 9, 2018#305

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Well, Lindsay Lohan is a bigger piece of trash than I would have imagined, (but I also missed when she defended Weinstein last year).

“I’m going to really hate myself for saying this,” Lohan told interviewer Simon Mills, “but I think by women speaking against all these things, it makes them look weak when they are very strong women.”

“You have these girls who come out, who don’t even know who they are, who do it for the attention,”

“If it happens at that moment, you discuss it at that moment,” she added. “You make it a real thing by making it a police report.”

What an asshole.

Internalized misogyny is a real and unfortunate thing.

Sep 14, 2018#306

Gared

Spoilered for not quite being Hollywood - but being fairly close-ish.

Texas Radio Host Dan Steffen Admits to Sexually Assualting Four Boys, Offering $45,000 to Have Prosecutor Killed

Sep 14, 2018#307

Dave

And having tons and tons of child porn that he made himself. Not a very good dude.

North Texas, huh? Wonder what kind of "syndicated radio program" he ran....

Sep 14, 2018#308

sixpackshaker

Looks like he is a survivalist gardener... If he was 20 years younger, he would be all over youtube.

Secrets of a Survivalist

Sep 25, 2018#309

chris

Bill Cosby sentenced to 3 to 10 years in state prison for sexual assault

Sep 25, 2018#310

PatrThom

Fortunately he played football in college, otherwise his sentence might’ve been more harsh.

—Patrick

Sep 25, 2018#311

Gared

Politics and Hollywood? This guy's a two-time loser. After losing his Republican political career to a federal cocaine distribution charge, he tried to go back as an independent, only to be soundly beaten in his attempt to unseat Lindsey Graham; before giving up and signing on to a docuseries... which he's been fired from/resigned from after being arrested and accused of raping his nanny.

Sep 25, 2018#312

Dave

Who?

Looked him up. Still have no idea who he is.

Sep 25, 2018#313

Gared

Dave said:
Who?

Looked him up. Still have no idea who he is.

Yeah... I'm not sure he's really worth this thread, myself. Sure, he's a scumbag, and sure, he has a TV show, but... the line has to be drawn somewhere. I only posted it because I recognized his name vaguely (and, well, this is kind of a pet hatred of mine, for reasons), but I dunno.

Sep 27, 2018#314

Dave

https://tvweb.com/bill-cosby-first-night-prison-details/

Apparently, Bill Cosby Falls Down Prison Steps After Getting Hit by Hot Dog Bun.

:rofl:

I need more laughing smilies.

Sep 27, 2018#315

blotsfan

He's gonna die in there.

Sep 27, 2018#316

Celt Z

Dave said:
Apparently, Bill Cosby Falls Down Prison Steps After Getting Hit by Hot Dog Bun.

Disappointed it wasn't a pudding cup.

blotsfan said:
He's gonna die in there.

Considering how many decades he lived free doing what he did, I think he's earned that.

Sep 27, 2018#317

Dave

blotsfan said:
He's gonna die in there.

He's so going on my 2019 Dead Pool.

Sep 27, 2018#318

jwhouk

Now now, there's still 94 days left in 2018.

Feb 8, 2019#319

DarkAudit

Anime dub actor Vic Mignogna has been in the news recently for harassment and assault. As a result, he's lost his acting gigs and conventions have dropped all his scheduled appearances.

So of COURSE his "fans" respond by showering his accusers with death and rape threats.

The internet was a mistake. If the *chans, twitter, and reddit were to suddenly disappear, the would would be a better place.

Feb 8, 2019#320

GasBandit

Suddenly the Ghost Stories dub referencing Vic Mignogna knocking up a 12 year old sounds a little prescient, a-la Family Guy and Kevin Spacey.

Feb 8, 2019#321

figmentPez

DarkAudit said:
Anime dub actor Vic Mignogna has been in the news recently for harassment and assault. As a result, he's lost his acting gigs and conventions have dropped all his scheduled appearances.

FINALLY. Young women have been making accusations against him for years.

Feb 11, 2019#322

figmentPez

Michael Benedict, known for his cosplay photography, has allegedly admitted that he has filmed individuals in changing rooms without their consent.

Mar 10, 2019#323

PatrThom

Hmm, I wonder what Brian Krzanich is up to these days?
Oh, seems he got hired as CEO of CDK Global, whatever that is.

--Patrick

Mar 20, 2019#324

drifter

Apparently there's a huge K-pop scandal involving drugs, rape, and police cover-ups. Shit sounds crazy, here's a link to a summary.

Mar 20, 2019#325

figmentPez

Wow, whoever wrote that link is shit at summarizing. Anyone here want to give it a try?

Mar 20, 2019#326

drifter

So the main story involves Seungri, a member of BIGBANG (used to be one of the biggest acts in k-pop). He's co-owner of the club Burning Sun, and is accused of using the club's VIP room to set up guests with drunk/drugged women to rape. There are also chat logs implicating him with running a prostition ring. Those same chat logs implicate him and other people in the entertainment industry with other terrible shit like sharing hidden cam sex vids and bribing cops regarding aforementioned crimes. There's some other stuff like tax evasion, but I think that's the juicy bits.

Here's a link to a different summary for something more in-depth, as I'm not entirely familiar with the situation myself.

Feb 11, 2021#327

Celt Z

Oh, Joss Whedon. You had this coming for a long time. From the looks of it, there's going to be a lot more coming out, and none of it good.

Feb 11, 2021#328

Tress

This one is so goddamned disappointing. I love Whedon’s work, and to find out that he’s a monster to work with is a little heartbreaking. I didn’t even want to believe it at first, but there’s just too many people with too many complaints.

Feb 11, 2021#329

Fun Size

It's especially a bitch with him coming out with a new show that looks good, but I'm suddenly less interested in. It's one thing to enjoy something not knowing...

Feb 11, 2021#330

Celt Z

You know, there has always been little things Joss Whedon has said or done over the years that don't make me shocked by it. When my friends were into Buffy back in high school, there was something that rubbed me the wrong way about it at the time. (I didn't love the show until college, and it was Angel that got me to give Buffy another chance.) Even then, I had said to my BF at the time that Charisma's pregnancy was getting a really shitty story line. I got really turned off by Firefly, even though I though the cast was great. But the thing I remember really Joss on my "this might not be a good guy" radar was a interview he gave about possibly directing the Wonder Woman movie back in 2000-something. He talked about how badly he wanted to cast Summer Glau as Diana, and it was clear that his fetish for tiny women was going to super-cede the lore and the history of the character. Then his ex-wife coming out in 2017 to mention how he would use his position to sleep with women and cheat didn't shock me. Ray Fischer's accusations didn't shock me. Joss sneaking in things like "quim" and "prima nocta" into Avengers movies didn't shock me. The only thing that shocks me at this point is that it's taken so long.

Feb 11, 2021#331

Tinwhistler

Celt Z said:
Oh, Joss Whedon. You had this coming for a long time. From the looks of it, there's going to be a lot more coming out, and none of it good.

for those who don't follow celeb news, here's a link: https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/sarah-michelle-gellar-joss-whedon-allegations-1234905160/

Feb 11, 2021#332

ThatNickGuy

Michelle "Dawn" Trachtenberg also hinted towards things that happened. She was 17 when Buffy ended.

I'd LIKE to believe she only witnessed things Whedon did, but in reality, it's probably much worse.

Feb 11, 2021#333

Celt Z

Oh, I forgot James Marsters has said in the past that Joss Whedon could be a petty monster. According to Marsters, Whedon was not a fan of Spike's popularity, and the "rape Buffy" story was put in to try and damage it. So add him to the alum of Charisma Carpenter, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Amber Benson and Clare Karmer (Glory) who have come forward.

You know, this is absolutely speculation and I could be proven wrong, but when Joss was complaining about being "burnt out" and "never working for Disney again" after the two Avenger films, I wonder if that had to do with Disney keeping him on a tighter leash and not getting away with his usual bullshit. I'd like to hope so, but we'll have to see.

Feb 11, 2021#334

Fun Size

Celt Z said:
Oh, I forgot James Marsters has said in the past that Joss Whedon could be a petty monster. According to Marsters, Whedon was not a fan of Spike's popularity, and the "rape Buffy" story was put in to try and damage it. So add him to the alum of Charisma Carpenter, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Amber Benson and Clare Karmer (Glory) who have come forward.

You know, this is absolutely speculation and I could be proven wrong, but when Joss was complaining about being "burnt out" and "never working for Disney again" after the two Avenger films, I wonder if that had to do with Disney keeping him on a tighter leash and not getting away with his usual bullshit. I'd like to hope so, but we'll have to see.

I never heard that about Marsters (who took a great picture with my daughter doing the two finger salute years ago). That makes that entire storyline even grosser, if that's possible.

Feb 11, 2021#335

netsirk

Celt Z said:
You know, there has always been little things Joss Whedon has said or done over the years that don't make me shocked by it. When my friends were into Buffy back in high school, there was something that rubbed me the wrong way about it at the time.

I also recall watching Buffy during late high school/early college and having a few discussions with friends about the difference between "girl power" vs. what, to me, often seemed like an excuse to gleefully showcase a slight-of-build young woman get the everloving snot beaten out of her on the regular, with the show handwaving that it was "okay" because of her super-strength/super-healing, and thus she could "handle it." I admittedly have a nostalgic soft spot for the "high school era" of the show, though I haven't rewatched it in years; I wonder what I'd think of it these days.

Anyway, like you, I can't say I'm shocked by the news.

Feb 11, 2021#336

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy said:
Michelle "Dawn" Trachtenberg also hinted towards things that happened. She was 17 when Buffy ended.

I'd LIKE to believe she only witnessed things Whedon did, but in reality, it's probably much worse.

Welp. Reality it is. Fucking hell.

Feb 12, 2021#337

BErt

Fucking blerg

Feb 12, 2021#338

ThatNickGuy

BErt said:
Fucking blerg

Holy shit, they're right. Xander hooked up with Dawn in the comics continuation.

Feb 12, 2021#339

chris

I wouldn't be surprised if producers, directors and co-stars having calendars, pinpointing exactly when a female star becomes legal.

Feb 12, 2021#340

ThatNickGuy

chris said:
I wouldn't be surprised if producers, directors and co-stars having calendars, pinpointing exactly when a female star becomes legal.

I remember a website back in the day that had a countdown to when the Olsen twins would be legal.

Feb 12, 2021#341

Celt Z

ThatNickGuy said:
I remember a website back in the day that had a countdown to when the Olsen twins would be legal.

Which was a shitty, disgusting thing to do to them, and any other female start that's gotten that treatment. I can't remember if it was the Olsens who commented on it, or another woman who had a "countdown clock", but I remember her saying it was embarrassing, disgusting, and made her uncomfortable in her own skin, knowing adult men were doing that to her.

Feb 12, 2021#342

Bubble181

I get thinking an 18 year old is sexy and stuff. The countdown clocks, I can think they're funny in a way, but I can definitely understand the targets not being amused (euphemistically).
The girls in question don't suddenly become "ok" to rape/abuse/have sex with on that day, though. In practice they count down to nothing.

Feb 12, 2021#343

Celt Z

Bubble181 said:
The countdown clocks, I can think they're funny in a way, but I can definitely understand the targets not being amused (euphemistically).

Publicly announcing when it's "ok" to fuck a child isn't funny. Being a teenager is hard enough, but knowing that adults are leering at your body and thinking other things (whether you want them to or not), is sexual harrassment. It may amount to "nothing" in the sense that 99%-100% of their pervs will never have a chance to do anything physical with these girls/women, but it's still a mental and emotional abuse than treat these girls bodies and selves like commodities. I can't see how this is funny.

Feb 12, 2021#344

Bubble181

Well, no. I mean, as a teen boy I thought they were funny. Now... I find myself trying to rationalize it but I guess it's just kinda wrong.

Feb 12, 2021#345

Ravenpoe

Celt Z said:
Publicly announcing when it's "ok" to fuck a child isn't funny. Being a teenager is hard enough, but knowing that adults are leering at your body and thinking other things (whether you want them to or not), is sexual harrassment. It may amount to "nothing" in the sense that 99%-100% of their pervs will never have a chance to do anything physical with these girls/women, but it's still a mental and emotional abuse than treat these girls bodies and selves like commodities. I can't see how this is funny.

It's a form of casual misogyny, the kind of thing that would be done for shock value as a form of rebellion against so called "PC" culture. It's gross and abusive and I hope we (as in society) can rise above the mentality of radio shock jocks.

Feb 12, 2021#346

Sara_2814

Celt Z said:
Which was a shitty, disgusting thing to do to them, and any other female start that's gotten that treatment. I can't remember if it was the Olsens who commented on it, or another woman who had a "countdown clock", but I remember her saying it was embarrassing, disgusting, and made her uncomfortable in her own skin, knowing adult men were doing that to her.

Emma Watson also had to deal with that. And it wasn't just random assholes on the Internet. The Sun had a countdown clock for when she turned 16.

But it is tabloid newspapers that are most fiercely criticised. The Sun and the Sunday Sport are condemned for "counting down" to the 16th birthdays of celebrities including actor Emma Watson and singer Charlotte Church. "The implication is shocking – that millions of readers should share a joke about the sexual desirability of underage girls," according to the submission. "Both young women have since reported that they found this editorial upsetting," it said.

And:

Emma said: "I remember on my 18th birthday I came out of my birthday party and photographers laid down on the pavement and took photographs up my skirt, which were then published on the front of the English tabloid [newspapers] the next morning. If they had published the photographs 24 hours earlier they would have been illegal, but because I had just turned 18 they were legal."

Apr 30, 2021#347

figmentPez

'19 Kids and Counting' star Josh Duggar arrested, indicted on child pornography charges

He previously admitted to molesting two of his sisters, so the only surprising part of this should be that he's actually facing prosecution.

Apr 30, 2021#348

Squidleybits

I still am revolted that he wasn’t charged then. His poor sisters didn’t stand a chance.

Jun 28, 2021#349

figmentPez

Is the video game industry close enough to Hollywoo these days?

Chris Avellone Accused of Sexual Assault

In this thread on Twitter, we see how not to file a defamation lawsuit:

Jun 28, 2021#350

Frank

What a fucking clown.

Jun 30, 2021#351

Dave

Bill Cosby's conviction has been overturned. He's going free.

Jun 30, 2021#352

Frank

PSA

He admitted to a lot of the stuff he was convicted for in exchange for immunity that the next DA fucked up and ignored. He's also shown zero remorse and still apparently doesn't think what he did was wrong.

Bill Cosby is an unrepentant rapist monster.

Jun 30, 2021#353

figmentPez

Allison Mack Sentenced to Three Years in Prison in NXIVM Sex Cult Case

That seems an absurdly light sentence given what she was accused and convicted of.

Jun 30, 2021#354

Dave

figmentPez said:
Allison Mack Sentenced to Three Years in Prison in NXIVM Sex Cult Case

That seems an absurdly light sentence given what she was accused and convicted of.

$$$ + woman = light sentencing

Jun 30, 2021#355

Frank

Dave said:
$$$ + woman = light sentencing

Her underling, daughter of a Canadian billionaire, was sentenced for seven years. She squealed on Renierreereer (probably while instructing the other women to shut up) and got off way less than the women she lured in. She Karla Homulka'd her way out of this.

Aug 1, 2021#356

Tiger Tsang

figmentPez said:
Is the video game industry close enough to Hollywoo these days?

Chris Avellone Accused of Sexual Assault

In this thread on Twitter, we see how not to file a defamation lawsuit:

Aug 1, 2021#357

Tiger Tsang

Do some of you folks even bother doing a modicum of research before you grab your pitchforks and start pulling your hair and gnashing your teeth?

Aug 1, 2021#358

Frank

You mean the shit he's added in the last couple of weeks in the last month since this thread was updated. Don't have a time machine Tiger, sorry.

And there's literally 2 posts in this thread about him, one announcing he's been accused of sexual assault and me calling him a clown after reading his original IT'S COME TO THIS writing where he comes off as clueless (as many anti-defamation lawyers have called him publicly) and misogynistic, or as I called him, a clown.

Or should we threatening to rape lawyers like Greg Doucette?

That It's Come to This you posted is literally 3 times longer than the one from a month ago.

Aug 16, 2021#359

GasBandit

Bob Dylan sued for allegedly drugging, sexually assaulting 12-year-old in 1965

The suit claims Dylan used drugs, alcohol and threats of physical violence, leaving the woman "emotionally scarred and psychologically damaged to this day.”

www.nbcnews.com

Jan 17, 2022#360

ThatNickGuy

If Whedon thought this interview would do him any favors, then he's 500% wrong. Because...wow.

The Undoing of Joss Whedon

The Buffy creator, once an icon of Hollywood feminism, is now an outcast accused of misogyny. How did he get here?

www.vulture.com

Jan 17, 2022#361

Frank

When he tried his sadboy routine and the interviewer laughed in his face I fucking lost it. Fuck this ghoulish piece of shit.

on our second day of interviews, I asked Whedon about his affairs on the set of Buffy. He looked worse than he had the day before. His eyes were faintly bloodshot. He hadn’t slept well. “I feel fucking terrible about them,” he said. When I pressed him on why, he noted “it messes up the power dynamic,” but he didn’t expand on that thought. Instead, he quickly added that he had felt he “had” to sleep with them, that he was “powerless” to resist. I laughed.

Jan 17, 2022#362

Tress

I don’t see it as that bad. It’s a summary of what the public has heard about him over the last few years. He’s got some serious issues and it sounds like he was a hypocrite and a dick for many years. And it sounds like he’s at least trying to reconcile that and do a bit better. But he still has a long, long way to go.

Jan 17, 2022#363

mikerc

Tress said:
I don’t see it as that bad. It’s a summary of what the public has heard about him over the last few years. He’s got some serious issues and it sounds like he was a hypocrite and a dick for many years. And it sounds like he’s at least trying to reconcile that and do a bit better. But he still has a long, long way to go.

I can see how someone could think that after reading most of that article. That last paragraph though? When he talks about how the real problem was that he was "too nice"? That's textbook denial of guilt & victim blaming.

That's the point where he'd faced a choice on whether to - as you put it - try to reconcile and do a bit better, or to double down on his behaviour. And he's not trying to do better.

Jan 17, 2022#364

ThatNickGuy

Tress said:
I don’t see it as that bad. It’s a summary of what the public has heard about him over the last few years. He’s got some serious issues and it sounds like he was a hypocrite and a dick for many years. And it sounds like he’s at least trying to reconcile that and do a bit better. But he still has a long, long way to go.

He throws people like Fisher and Gadot under the bus, like blaming Gadot for having a "language barrier," which is preposterous.

He uses a "funny" Vincent Price impression to bookend an anecdote where he basically admits to accidentally killing a child.

He said he was "powerless" with the women he worked with and "had" to sleep with them.

He threw a temper tantrum and physically hurt a costume designer because he wanted an actor to wear something sexier.

Almost every single time he's directly quoted in this article, it makes the situation worse. There have been multiple accounts from people within the industry - male and female - that match the behavior described in this article.

Saying he was a "dick" is putting it far too mildly. He's a manipulative, mentally and physically abusive misogynist.

EDIT: He's also in a similar program as Harvey Weinstein, James Franco, and Kevin Spacey. That is NOT good company to be compared with!

Dec 5, 2022#365

figmentPez

Reminder that Vic Mignogna is still a piece of shit:

Dec 5, 2022#366

bhamv3

figmentPez said:
Reminder that Vic Mignogna is still a piece of shit:

But... why? What was he hoping to accomplish there?

Dec 6, 2022#367

PatrThom

bhamv3 said:
But... why? What was he hoping to accomplish there?

Too...prove he is not gay? Maybe?

--Patrick

Jan 13, 2023#368

Yoshimickster

Add Justin Roiland to the list, fucking CHRIST.

Jan 13, 2023#369

GasBandit

Yoshimickster said:
Add Justin Roiland to the list, fucking CHRIST.

Is there more? I read he got some domestic violence charges, but this is the first I've heard of sexual harrasment.

Jan 13, 2023#370

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
Is there more? I read he got some domestic violence charges, but this is the first I've heard of sexual harrasment.

He was charged for the 2020 incident.

Jan 13, 2023#371

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
He was charged for the 2020 incident.

Like I said, that was a violence (and wrongful imprisonment, somehow) charge, not a sexual harrassment charge. At least so google is still telling me.

Jan 13, 2023#372

blotsfan

I love that I made this thread title.

Jan 13, 2023#373

Yoshimickster

Yeah I see that now, still a skeezoid who I feel should be called out though, and feel making a separate thread feels like hair splitting a bit.

Jan 13, 2023#374

GasBandit

Yoshimickster said:
Yeah I see that now, still a skeezoid who I feel should be called out though, and feel making a separate thread feels like hair splitting a bit.

I think it's been brought up in the Milkshake Duck thread. Which I think is what you were going for.

Jan 13, 2023#375

PatrThom

blotsfan said:
I love that I made this thread title.

Woo!

--Patrick

Jan 13, 2023#376

Yoshimickster

GasBandit said:
I think it's been brought up in the Milkshake Duck thread. Which I think is what you were going for.

1 hundo, yeah I didn't even know about that thread.

Jan 14, 2023#377

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
Is there more? I read he got some domestic violence charges, but this is the first I've heard of sexual harrasment.

Well, now that the tide is turning against him, the sexual harassment allegations are coming out:

Allie Goertz is an indie nerd musician who used to go by CossbySweater (just a bad history in fandom there), and first got attention for "Tonight" a song about D&D.

Jan 14, 2023#378

Yoshimickster

I feel like an unintentional Cassandra right now.

Jan 14, 2023#379

chris

figmentPez said:
Well, now that the tide is turning against him, the sexual harassment allegations are coming out:

Allie Goertz is an indie nerd musician who used to go by CossbySweater (just a bad history in fandom there), and first got attention for "Tonight" a song about D&D.

What the...? I don't understand what his messages are about. Didn't he like a song she wrote or something? Why sending this shit? Was he drunk?

Jan 14, 2023#380

Celt Z

chris said:
What the...? I don't understand what his messages are about. Didn't he like a song she wrote or something? Why sending this shit? Was he drunk?

I can tell you, from experience, that there is a certain type of guy that thinks making a woman uncomfortable makes him edgy/funny. And if the girl shows any discomfort, then it's "their own fault" for "not getting the joke" or "being uptight". They are not uncommon, and they are usually sober.

Jan 14, 2023#381

PatrThom

Celt Z said:
there is a certain type of guy that thinks making a woman uncomfortable makes him edgy/funny

Example from the webcomic thread.

--Patrick

Feb 23, 2023#382

figmentPez

BBC article: Disgraced film producer Harvey Weinstein gets 16 more years in prison

Mar 9, 2023#383

figmentPez

‘Stranger Things’ Star Grace Van Dien Is ‘Turning Down Acting Projects’ After Alleged Sexual Advances From Movie Producer

“Here’s the thing, I have seen that some people are upset with me for turning down acting projects and deciding to stream more, but the fact of the matter is the last few projects I’ve worked on I didn’t have the best experiences with some of the people I had to work for,” Van Dien said.

“One of the last movies I did, one of the producers asked me to… like, he hired a girl that he was sleeping with and then he had her ask me to have a threesome with them,” Van Dien said. “So… that’s my boss. And then I didn’t and I cried and I was so upset. But when people are like, ‘How is streaming better for your mental health?’ That’s how. I get to stay inside my house and play video games and I don’t have my boss asking me to have sex with them.”

Grace Van Dien streams as BlueFille

Mar 9, 2023#384

Frank

Imagine how toxic acting must be if you choose fucking Twitch of all things.

Mar 10, 2023#385

Dave

“Star”.

Mar 10, 2023#386

Ravenpoe

Dave said:
“Star”.

She was a pretty vital character, and it seems a little uncouth to invalidate her experience because you don't think she played a big enough role.

Mar 10, 2023#387

Dave

Ravenpoe said:
She was a pretty vital character, and it seems a little uncouth to invalidate her experience because you don't think she played a big enough role.

She played a part in like two episodes. I’m not invalidating her experience but the headline is putting whole lot of heavy lifting into the word star in this context.

Mar 10, 2023#388

Ravenpoe

Dave said:
She played a part in like two episodes. I’m not invalidating her experience but the headline is putting whole lot of heavy lifting into the word star in this context.

These are SAG terms. She gets a "starring" credit on the episodes she is in, as opposed to co-starring, guest starting, featuring etc.

Mar 10, 2023#389

Dave

Huh. I did not know that.

Mar 25, 2023#390

bhamv3

Update on Chris Avellone, his accusers have apparently publicly retracted their accusations.

‘Fallout’ Writer Chris Avellone And Accusers Issue Joint Statement, Settle Lawsuit

Video game writer Chris Avellone has reached a confidential settlement with two women who accused him of sexual assault. The accusers have issued a public statement retracting all claims of sexual assault.

www.forbes.com

Mar 25, 2023#391

Shawn

Justin Roiland Domestic Violence Charges Dismissed, ‘Rick and Morty’ Creator Slams ‘Horrible Lies Reported About Me’

"Rick and Morty" creator Justin Roiland has been cleared of domestic violence charges, and he's slamming the lies reported against him.

variety.com

I can't say for sure if there was any merit to the claims against him. I don't know if any of the claims were true or had some truth behind them.
It just seems clear that the damage has already been done to his career and now the state of California suddenly has no reason to pursue the case.
As a victim of false abuse accusations myself it may be my own bias in this situation, but that's messed up.
Cancel culture is toxic. We take it upon ourselves to ruin the careers of others simply because we're too impatient/stubborn to make sure we're not wrong about someone first.
In today's society we have to go on trial twice for things now, and the first time they don't give a shit about evidence or lack-there-of.

Mar 25, 2023#392

ThatNickGuy

The case was dismissed, but that doesn't clear him of wrong doing. The wording in that article is incredibly misleading.

There may not have been enough evidence for this case specifically, but there are multiple screenshots of texts where he's sending really inappropriate things to minors. There are far too many stories about him out there.

I'm still firmly on the side that he's a monster and hope he struggles to find work.

Mar 25, 2023#393

Shawn

ThatNickGuy said:
The case was dismissed, but that doesn't clear him of wrong doing. The wording in that article is incredibly misleading.

There may not have been enough evidence for this case specifically, but there are multiple screenshots of texts where he's sending really inappropriate things to minors. There are far too many stories about him out there.

I'm still firmly on the side that he's a monster and hope he struggles to find work.

If true then yes. He's a monster who shouldn't be working. But if it's lies then how is the result to be any different?

Mar 25, 2023#394

blotsfan

I mean, after the charges were made public, a litany of other reasons why he shouldn't work came out as well.

Mar 25, 2023#395

Shawn

blotsfan said:
I mean, after the charges were made public, a litany of other reasons why he shouldn't work came out as well.

I just hope they are all true and not just lies made up by people. Because we as a society judge people by what we read on the internet and not by the actual evidence.

Mar 25, 2023#396

GasBandit

I was talking about Justin Roiland to an attorney friend of mine, And one thing I thought was kind of interesting was that the threshold for what constitutes kidnapping (which was one of the main charges against Roiland) is incredibly low. Like stupidly low.

For example, if you go willingly to someone's house, sit on the couch, and then try to get up and do something but the host puts their hand on your shoulder preventing you from getting up and says "oh don't get up, let me get that for you," it pretty much constitutes kidnapping (and assault).

So yeah. Other things may have come to light once he got under the microscope, but one thing's for certain, I'll be a lot more skeptical about public claims of this and that for situations in which I am not directly involved.

Mar 25, 2023#397

Celt Z

Shawn said:
I just hope they are all true and not just lies made up by people. Because we as a society judge people by what we read on the internet and not by the actual evidence.

But before any of these had been made public, his own coworkers had him removed from the office because of his behavior. I recall reading he hadn't been showing up in person for... years? If I'm correct? If you can't trust the people who are around him daily, I don't know what to tell you.

Mar 25, 2023#398

Bubble181

There's a big difference between "he's a jerk, I hate working with him, he's an asshole who treats people badly" and 'he should be jailed", though.

I'm definitely not defending him, as I'm pretty sure he has done stuff he should be in jail for or at the very least ,that I find morally reprehensible. But the Court of Public Opinion sure is strong and willing to judge a lot of people for a lot of things very easily and seems perfectly willing to destroy lives and careers over "not much there" or even flat-out false allegations, too, sadly.

Mar 25, 2023#399

Ravenpoe

Bubble181 said:
But the Court of Public Opinion sure is strong and willing to judge a lot of people for a lot of things very easily and seems perfectly willing to destroy lives and careers over "not much there" or even flat-out false allegations, too, sadly.

Sure, that can be true, but in this case you say yourself:

Bubble181 said:
I'm definitely not defending him, as I'm pretty sure he has done stuff he should be in jail for or at the very least ,that I find morally reprehensible.

So this -isn't- a case of someone being wrongfully accused, which makes all the hemming and hawing kinda pointless. And it's the hemming and hawing that those that would want to silence the voices of victims count on.

Mar 25, 2023#400

GasBandit

Ravenpoe said:
So this -isn't- a case of someone being wrongfully accused, which makes all the hemming and hawing kinda pointless.

They're not accusing him of kidnapping and domestic assault, though. Not that what they're saying is any less reprehensible.

I really don't know which way to go on this. Is this a "they got Al Capone for tax evasion" kind of situation? Or is it important to make sure that people are held accountable for exactly and explicitly the actions we find repugnant? There's arguments for both - but yeah, they do both point to Roiland still being a piece of shit. It's just the former is susceptible to falsification and abuse, and the latter might be too hard to make stick every time it is needed.

Mar 25, 2023#401

Celt Z

Bubble181 said:
There's a big difference between "he's a jerk, I hate working with him, he's an asshole who treats people badly" and 'he should be jailed", though.

Obviously, which is why he was kicked out because:

Among details of Roiland’s unseemly workplace behavior, which included parading “a high-profile porn star through the Rick and Morty writers room,” openly discussing threesomes, and being “involved in at least one instance of alleged sexual harassment during the show’s third season,”

Last I checked, sexual harassment is a litigious offense, not to mention breaking company policy. This isn't your usual "well, he a fucking asshole, but boys will be boys", look-the-other-way bullshit which most men in this position seem to get away with. And, sadly enough, people will defend as long as they get their Pickle Rick.

I'm definitely not defending him, as I'm pretty sure he has done stuff he should be in jail for or at the very least ,that I find morally reprehensible. But the Court of Public Opinion sure is strong and willing to judge a lot of people for a lot of things very easily and seems perfectly willing to destroy lives and careers over "not much there" or even flat-out false allegations, too, sadly.

Well, good thing there's a lot of evidence this time, since there's no shortage of people, especially women, who got their lives and careers destroyed for not being believed when men in power tried to shrug off their shitty and law-breaking behavior.

Mar 25, 2023#402

Ravenpoe

GasBandit said:
They're not accusing him of kidnapping and domestic assault, though. Not that what they're saying is any less reprehensible.

I really don't know which way to go on this. Is this a "they got Al Capone for tax evasion" kind of situation? Or is it important to make sure that people are held accountable for exactly and explicitly the actions we find repugnant? There's arguments for both - but yeah, they do both point to Roiland still being a piece of shit. It's just the former is susceptible to falsification and abuse, and the latter might be too hard to make stick every time it is needed.

I have strong opinions on this, so it's easier for me. The example you gave of putting a hand on a shoulder and saying don't get up, absolutely can be considered kidnapping to me. Because it's entirely about the implication. You can say kind words to someone while implying violence, and it's the intent and the implication that change it from mere words to assault. If someone with an abusive history makes you feel like you aren't allowed to leave, even if they're acting 'nice' about it, that's still wrongful imprisonment. And the idea of "oh who is to decide that?" isn't a hard question, a judge and/or a jury, that's who.

I just see the same pattern emerge in all of these stories, and people fall for it. Abusers will float the idea that "it could be you getting accused next!" as a way to get people on their side and against their accusers. And in the rare case that an accuser -is- lying, it usually comes out, see: Amber Heard.

I'm of the opinion that a functioning society only functions if we call out the shit we see when we see it, whether major or minor. If you go out and say some wild and ignorant shit, people should tell you, and hopefully you learn from it. I've said ignorant shit in my past and gotten called out for it, and I grew as a person because of it. And on the major side, if people do heinous shit, then that shit needs to be spotlighted, and they need to pay for it, otherwise society may as well endorse that action instead.

Mar 25, 2023#403

GasBandit

Ravenpoe said:
And in the rare case that an accuser -is- lying, it usually comes out, see: Amber Heard.

We've got an actual, first hand experiencer of it not really "working out" in this thread. Shawnacy's ex is not a unique occurrence.

Ravenpoe said:
I'm of the opinion that a functioning society only functions if we call out the shit we see when we see it, whether major or minor.

I agree with this. Anything that can be destroyed by the truth should be. The question is, should something that has a truth that should be destroyed by it (but isn't) - be destroyed instead by a lie?

Mar 25, 2023#404

PatrThom

Ravenpoe said:
it's the intent and the implication that change it from mere words to assault.

Mens rea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

--Patrick

Mar 25, 2023#405

Shawn

Ravenpoe said:
I just see the same pattern emerge in all of these stories, and people fall for it. Abusers will float the idea that "it could be you getting accused next!" as a way to get people on their side and against their accusers. And in the rare case that an accuser -is- lying, it usually comes out, see: Amber Heard.

It's not as rare as you would think. Worse yet it's even rarer when a female false accuser gets caught. And even rarer still if that caught female accuser gets any kind of justice thrown back at her.

As Gas mentioned I have first hand experience: I think this will be the first time I mention this openly here (and I do hope it doesn't harm the opinion all of you, who I have come to think of wonderful friends, have of me), but I was accused of domestic violence by my ex and it did not go well for me.

I had been going through years of mental/emotional/and even physical abuse by that woman. I never cheated on her in the time we were together and yet she made me feel that I had done so hundreds of times just by being nice to people of the opposite sex (a trip to Universal Studios was ruined because I was asked by two women to use their phone to take their picture in front of a costumed character we were all in the same line for). She made me suffer through 6 long-term affairs while gaslighting me to think that I was either paranoid, a creep, or directly to blame for the affair (even locking me out of our own phone bills because I was using it to "creep on her"). She went out of her way to keep me busy during the day running errands for her so, along with my overnight job, I was constantly sleep deprived and living on 2-3 hours of sleep a day. Constantly berating me our entire marriage. Never having nice things to say. Never supporting me. "I'm not calling you names. I'm only calling you an asshole because it's true, Shawn!"
She started making it clear that she was setting me up as an "abuser" early, and I blame myself for not having the strength to walk away from her when I should have. One time, after I wouldn't drop the idea that she was having an affair (I had texts, emails, and even caught her in several lies), she started slapping me over and over again. I grabbed her wrists in self defense to hold back her arms. I was informed a few days later that she was showing small bruises on her wrists to my friends and telling them that I did that. I couldn't even walk away from arguments because she would physically block the door with her body, screaming out in pain as if I had just broken her arm if I even tried to push her out of the way (to gaslight me to think I actually was abusing her and loud enough so the kids could hear). I couldn't even get my fingers in the door to pry it open because I knew she'd have no hesitation slamming the door on them hard enough to sever them. The women literally kicked our bedroom door hard enough, busting the frame, just to get to me because I had locked myself inside to flee from an argument.
My worst mistake was in October of 2018. She had been having an on-and-off again affair with a guy at JPL where they worked. He was in TV production so he had access to almost anywhere on campus, so they were having sex in unused offices in the campus pretty much on a daily basis. I had already exposed the affair once that year by involving the guy's wife. But the signs were there that she was continuing the affair with him, just being more careful this time around (I think by this time his wife was leaving him so they just doubled down on stuff since his relationship was no longer a factor). Of course Sarah was gaslighting the hell out of me on this one (She usually would until I caught her so red handed that she'd finally admit it). That particular afternoon in October I made the dumb choice to try and grab her phone from her and catch her in the act of texting him (she locked me out of her phone and was using snapchat to delete the texts so grabbing it when it was unlocked was my only way to accomplish that). I'm sure the explanation behind my choice to do this was the combination of being sleep deprived (to an unhealthy level) and what I later learned is a real thing called "reactive abuse". We played tug of war over that phone for a while. She was kicking and biting me during it, but I kept my focus on just trying to jerk the phone from her.
I don't, to this day, feel that I was justified or excused for doing that, regardless of how I avoided physically harming her in the process. But I do vividly remember my desperation and hurt that was going through my head. I remember that the entire ridiculous point of that whole thing, was to find something on her phone that she'd actually have to admit to, as if she actually would anyway. I could show that woman texts between her and a lover, talking about how great the sex was the night before, only to be told that those texts were faked for my benefit so I "could be a better husband". I knew it was happening. For some damn, stupid reason I wanted her to admit it was happening too.
I was successful in getting the phone, and left the house with it. Little did I know at the time, but she called the police on me. A few days later (On Halloween in fact) I was called by a Sheriff to turn myself in. I did so. I was arrested, put in the system for the first time in my 38 years of my life at the time, and spent a day in jail. They never asked me any questions about the incident. Never even asked me my side. I showed up at the station and they just arrested me. My ex told the police that during the fight I dislocated one of her fingers (which of course she "relocated" before speaking to them). I was bailed out by my parents. Sarah claimed she was trying to bail me out but "couldn't figure out how". Found out later she just spent the day at work with the guy she was having the affair with.
We had to begin our separation process pretty much immediately after that. An automatic criminal restraining order went into place. Sarah could have gone to request to have it removed at any time but (despite gaslighting me into thinking she was trying) she never bothered. She savored this new control over me. CPS got involved due to the incident but they determined that Sarah and I were only abusive to the kids due to the consistent verbal arguments between us when the kids were around (mostly Sarah yelling at me for things I never did, but how do you explain that to anyone?). She was even using CPS's involvement to get me to comply with her demands even more ("They don't want you seeing the kids") despite the fact that CPS told me the exact opposite (you SHOULD see the kids as much as possible) and finding out that they only kept the case open for a while because they could sense Sarah wasn't cooperating much.
The sheriff's office decided to go forward with the charges. I got a lawyer but only had enough to get me to the point of a plea deal. He recommended we go to a jury trial as the evidence was so non-existent, but I was scared of both just never being in this situation before and that Sarah was going to take the kids from me if I fought the charges. So I stupidly plead no-contest to the charges. A required 3 year restraining order went into effect (just for Sarah. Not the kids). And I was required to take 52 classes for domestic violence offenders for the next year.
I'll be honest: That class was probably one of the best things that could have happened to me in the wake of things. I mean I don't know if everyone was in exactly similar situations as me (I'm sure there were a few people there that were actually terrible abusers of their spouses) but I learned that my plight wasn't rare. A lot of the class even centered around not letting someone else's abuse cause you to react to it. I gained the knowledge of how to walk away from an abusive relationship. I even learned one of my favorite life lessons there: "It's not your fault that you were treated how you were. But it is your responsibility how to act".
I had perfect attendance to the class and had passed in exactly one year. Though the restraining order remained in effect for the full 3 years I was able to expunge my conviction after 1.5 years due to my dedication (even the DA was like "we have no reason to dispute his request for expungement").
But to this day Sarah has never been held accountable for her part in things. She's completely alienated me from seeing my step-kids, and (as most are aware) she makes seeing my own daughter one of the most challenging things in my life. So far she claims that pretty much every boyfriend she's ever had before me was abusive. Even the guy she ended up marrying recently. She dated him in high school and claimed he physically cut her on her legs and arms. Pretty sure now that that was bullshit too. I don't even think he's aware she made those accusations against him.

I will never believe that women are not the most common demographic who will be the victims of abuse in relationships. But I do believe that we live in a society that has empowered women to speak out so much that we believe them even when they are lying. Each claim of abuse should be investigated properly on a case-by-case scenario. But right now the police are too pressured to do anything but respond with the mindset that a domestic violence dispute between a man and a woman must be the man's fault. My ex is not as unique as people would hope. There are plenty of narcissistic women out there who are with beta-male type guys entirely because they know they can manipulate and push them around. We can't treat every toxic relationship like this is the case... but I wish we could be prepared for it to be the case just the same.

Mar 25, 2023#406

Celt Z

But I think there's one big issue you're glossing over compared to your own experience: in your case, it was one person's word against yours. Was she lying? Yes. But in the case with Roiland, there were multiple accusers and evidence. Some coworkers, some strangers, all different ages and walks of life. It's a lot harder to organize random people to start a false campaign than one person's word against another. Not impossible, of course (See: Pizzagate, Gamergate, etc.), but the odds aren't in his favor.

Mar 25, 2023#407

Shawn

Celt Z said:
But I think there's one big issue you're glossing over compared to your own experience: in your case, it was one person's word against yours. Was she lying? Yes. But in the case with Roiland, there were multiple accusers and evidence. Some coworkers, some strangers, all different ages and walks of life. It's a lot harder to organize random people to start a false campaign than one person's word against another. Not impossible, of course (See: Pizzagate, Gamergate, etc.), but the odds aren't in his favor.

There are a lot of accusers. Most likely he is a piece of work. If he's grooming underage girls, abusing people in relationships, etc, those are things that should lose him work if not straight up jail time.
But its still not impossible that there is more to the situation. He could be a jerk and a womanizer without being a monster. One person could make a complaint about him and suddenly everyone else wants a piece of that fame just cause their breakup wasn't on good terms or because he's just an asshat to work with. Do we need people to speak out about abuse? Absolutely. That's how we catch the Bill Cosbys and Weinsteins of this world. And the more that open up about them the more hard evidence there should be available to ensure someone like that is dealt with properly by the law.
But it only took one person to ruin Johnny Depp's career and she didn't even mention him by name in her blog/book. Regardless of who or how many people make claims against someone, we need to take the proper steps to make sure there isn't more to the situation than is being reported.

Mar 25, 2023#408

Celt Z

It's incredibly telling that Justin's own coworkers were like, "Yeah, that checks. We had to keep him out of the office because Cartoon Network wouldn't let us fire him outright" when all this broke. No one was like, "Oh no, Justin would never...!". The people around him everyday weren't shocked. That's not just the court of public opinion there, that's first-hand.

And considering Depp is still getting work, I wouldn't call him ruined. Heard is probably not going to have a career after this, but she was far from innocent in this. I can remember hearing bad things about Depp's behavior and drinking even back in the 80's when we was with Winona Ryder. This was clearly a case of two toxic people getting together.

Mar 25, 2023#409

ThatNickGuy

Celt Z said:
It's incredibly telling that Justin's own coworkers were like, "Yeah, that checks. We had to keep him out of the office because Cartoon Network wouldn't let us fire him outright" when all this broke. No one was like, "Oh no, Justin would never...!". The people around him everyday weren't shocked. That's not just the court of public opinion there, that's first-hand.

And considering Depp is still getting work, I wouldn't call him ruined. Heard is probably not going to have a career after this, but she was far from innocent in this. I can remember hearing bad things about Depp's behavior and drinking even back in the 80's when we was with Winona Ryder. This was clearly a case of two toxic people getting together.

Yeah, that was the thing I took from the Depp/Heard case. NEITHER of them came out of it looking good. They both came across as horribly toxic, abusive people.

Mar 25, 2023#410

Shawn

Celt Z said:
It's incredibly telling that Justin's own coworkers were like, "Yeah, that checks. We had to keep him out of the office because Cartoon Network wouldn't let us fire him outright" when all this broke. No one was like, "Oh no, Justin would never...!". The people around him everyday weren't shocked. That's not just the court of public opinion there, that's first-hand.

And considering Depp is still getting work, I wouldn't call him ruined. Heard is probably not going to have a career after this, but she was far from innocent in this. I can remember hearing bad things about Depp's behavior and drinking even back in the 80's when we was with Winona Ryder. This was clearly a case of two toxic people getting together.

That seems part of the problem. Roiland wasn’t removed from projects until these issues came to light and the public started demanding his cancelation, right? Him doing it not doing something has no bearing on it. Only if the public thinks he did will action be taken.
Depp was heavily blacklisted until the defamation case put to light Heard’s abuse. While I think Depp’s drug use played a factor in his own toxicity. I saw a lot of similarities with what Heard was doing to him to manipulate and humiliate him.
I truly believe that if I were famous when everything happened with my ex that I would have been “cancelled”. Even if I went to court and had a non guilty verdict I don’t think a bounce back would be possible except under the right circumstances.

Jun 20, 2023#411

blotsfan

And they did it in the way everyone predicted.

Jun 20, 2023#412

ThatNickGuy

blotsfan said:
And they did it in the way everyone predicted.

I expect we'll be seeing a similar gag in Rick & Morty.

Jun 20, 2023#413

blotsfan

Not only will it be the same gag in Rick & Morty, but they will do a joke about how its the same gag as in Solar Opposites.

Aug 2, 2023#414

figmentPez

Lawsuit by former dancers accuses Lizzo of sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment

"The civil lawsuit filed Tuesday in Los Angeles County Superior Court claims Lizzo pressured the dancers to engage with nude performers at a club in Amsterdam and shamed one of them for her weight gain before firing her.

"Plaintiffs Arianna Davis, Crystal Williams and Noelle Rodriguez make numerous charges including sexual, religious and racial harassment, disability discrimination, assault and false imprisonment."
...
"The court filing claims that after performing a concert in Amsterdam, Lizzo and her crew attended a sexually themed show at a club in the city’s notorious Red Light District where 'Lizzo began inviting cast members to take turns touching the nude performers.' During the show, Lizzo led a chant pressuring Davis to touch the breasts of one of the nude women performing at the club, the filing states."

--

If you'd asked me to guess what musician has been accused of sexually harassing and fat shaming their dancers, Lizzo would not even have been in the top 50.

Aug 2, 2023#415

PatrThom

Huh. I admit, I was expecting this to show up in the MD thread.

—Patrick

Sep 7, 2023#416

figmentPez

‘That ’70s Show’ actor Danny Masterson gets 30 years to life in prison for rapes of 2 women

"Prosecutors alleged that Masterson used his prominence in the Church of Scientology — where all three women were also members at the time — to avoid consequences for decades after the attacks.

"The women blamed the church for their hesitancy in going to police about Masterson. They testified that when they reported him to Scientology officials, they were told they were not raped, were put through ethics programs themselves, and were warned against going to law enforcement to report a member of such high standing."

Sep 7, 2023#417

GasBandit

I always marvel at the serendipity of how the character that was the group's skeezy scumbag was cast in such a way as to find a guy who looked like anyone would agree "yeah that guy looks like a skeezy scumbag" ... and he turned out to be a skeezy scumbag.

Sep 7, 2023#418

PatrThom

In the words of Ben Lum: "Talk about typecasting!"

--Patrick

Sep 8, 2023#419

drawn_inward

I like that a rapist is going away for an appropriate time, but there are so many others that have gotten off with almost zero consequences.

Sep 8, 2023#420

PatrThom

drawn_inward said:
I like that a rapist is going away for an appropriate time, but there are so many others that have gotten off with almost zero consequences.

Someone should make a movie.

--Patrick

Sep 8, 2023#421

sixpackshaker

PatrThom said:
Someone should make a movie.

--Patrick

A lot of rapists do.

Sep 9, 2023#422

figmentPez

Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis can fuck right off.

"We didn't mean to invalidate the experience of those who were raped, we just wanted to privately tell a judge that he shouldn't believe victims because it makes us uncomfortable that someone we know might face consequences." <paraphrased>

Sep 9, 2023#423

Dave

It's a really strange stance from people who champion women's rights and are so anti-human trafficking. I mean, they have spent countless hours trying to help those who were forced into sex work and are marginalized. Then they...stick up for a convicted rapist? What? Hey when my friend got caught with child porn I didn't write the judge a letter saying because he and I shared a few laughs that he shouldn't go to jail for a long time. I waved goodbye.

Sep 10, 2023#424

drawn_inward

Are they scientologists too?

Sep 10, 2023#425

PatrThom

drawn_inward said:
Are they scientologists too?

The Internet says no to both, though it also says at times Kutcher has attended events with friends who are.

—Patrick

Sep 10, 2023#426

Yoshimickster

PatrThom said:
The Internet says no to both, though it also says at times Kutcher has attended events with friends who are.

—Patrick

Yup, they've drunk the Thetan juice, or just bad people, or both!

Sep 27, 2023#427

figmentPez

Since I'm pretty sure we already knew Dane Cook was sketchy, this doesn't belong in the Milkshake Duck thread, but it's definitely a Hollywoo star being a sex pest.

If that doesn't load for you, Dane Cook (51) just married his 24 year-old girlfriend, whom he's been dating since the moment she turned 18, but they first met when she was 15. Her step dad brought her with him to Dane Cook's house, where she was presumably groomed to be ready for dating the moment she was legally an adult.

Sep 27, 2023#428

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Since I'm pretty sure we already knew Dane Cook was sketchy, this doesn't belong in the Milkshake Duck thread, but it's definitely a Hollywoo star being a sex pest.

If that doesn't load for you, Dane Cook (51) just married his 24 year-old girlfriend, whom he's been dating since the moment she turned 18, but they first met when she was 15. Her step dad brought her with him to Dane Cook's house, where she was presumably groomed to be ready for dating the moment she was legally an adult.

Ok, I see where the confusion is, but since I speak conservative I can translate it for you.

Dane Cook isn't a groomer because he's white, cis male, and rich and influential. And it's not like he did this to a "person," he did it to a young girl, whose only purpose is to be traded off by her father to a wealthy suitor, preferably for a dowry.

See? Traditional family values.

Sep 27, 2023#429

Bubble181

Darn, if only I was rich and influential.
And into kids.

Sep 27, 2023#430

GasBandit

"If you can't get a store-bought a sex slave, growing your own is also acceptable."

Sep 27, 2023#431

Dave

"She was very mature for her age."

Sep 27, 2023#432

GasBandit

Dave said:
"She was very mature for her age."

You inspired me to make a new reaction.

Jan 27, 2024#433

GasBandit

Jan 27, 2024#434

Frank

Don't read the whole thing. It's awful.

Legitimately prostituting out his employee to other members to rape and use, including Brock Lesnar (and the internet detectives have figured out other unnamed executives as HHH, Bruce Prichard, etc)

Jan 27, 2024#435

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:

How many billionaire rapists does Trump know?

Well, besides the one in the mirror.

Thursday at 8:49 AM#436

Celt Z

What bullshit is this

Live Updates: Harvey Weinstein’s Conviction Is Overturned by New York’s Top Court

Manhattan prosecutors must now decide whether to retry Mr. Weinstein, the disgraced Hollywood producer whose sexual abuse case sparked the #MeToo movement.

www.nytimes.com

Thursday at 9:06 AM#437

Ravenpoe

Celt Z said:
What bullshit is this

Live Updates: Harvey Weinstein’s Conviction Is Overturned by New York’s Top Court

Manhattan prosecutors must now decide whether to retry Mr. Weinstein, the disgraced Hollywood producer whose sexual abuse case sparked the #MeToo movement.

www.nytimes.com

"We have to overturn this decision because some of this evidence was of entirely separate crimes of the exact same nature that we weren't actively trying him for"

Thursday at 9:08 AM#438

Bubble181

No idea, got an article without a paywall? :-D

Thursday at 9:18 AM#439

Tinwhistler

Bubble181 said:
No idea, got an article without a paywall? :-D

Harvey Weinstein's rape conviction overturned in New York

The rape conviction of movie producer Harvey Weinstein has been overturned by New York's highest court.

abcnews.go.com

Thursday at 9:39 AM#440

Bubble181

Yeah, looked it up in the meantime....
Good thing is, he won't be a free man because of the California case.
Bad thing is, this makes it look like it was overblown while this overturning isn't about his actual guilt at all.

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