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Dear Cambridge Police...STFU
#1
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/24/office ... topstories
Normally I side with the police in terms of tasers on naked wizards and other assholes, but seriously this cop and his prescient are a bunch of moronic bullies who are getting called out on their ignorance and stupidity. You don't just arrest a dignified scholar in his own home for stupid reasons. I'm not saying that Dr. Gates is above the law, but he clearly showed it was his house, and the cop was NOT needed there any further. He should have FUCKING LEFT, GATES'S HOUSE after it was established that it was his home. I fully understand why Gates would become irate after a long business trip, having to bust open his own door, and then being bothered by a bully cop who refuses to leave his property.CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- President Obama should apologize to members of the Cambridge Police Department for saying they acted stupidly, the president of the city's police union said Friday.
Sgt. Jim Crowley says he is disappointed President Obama opined on the matter without having all the facts.
Sgt. Jim Crowley says he is disappointed President Obama opined on the matter without having all the facts.
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Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said at a news conference that Obama should not have criticized officers' actions in last week's arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.
Sgt. James Crowley, the officer who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, has previously said he was dismayed by the president's remarks and that Obama had offended police in Cambridge and elsewhere.
\"I was a little surprised and disappointed that the president, who didn't have all of the facts by his own admission, then weighed in on the events of that night and made a comment that really offended not just officers in the Cambridge Police Department but officers around the country,\" Crowley told CNN affiliate WHDH-TV in Boston.
Obama, however, stood by his comment, saying he is \"surprised by the controversy surrounding\" it.
\"I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home,\" Obama told ABC's \"Nightline.\" Video Watch Crowley's boss defend the arrest »
When Obama waded into the story by answering a question about it during his news conference Wednesday night, he admitted that he \"may be a little biased\" because Gates is a friend.
Don't Miss
* Police commissioner stands by professor's arrest
* Read Gate's arrest report (PDF)
* Mayor: Gates' arrest shouldn't have happened
* Charge dropped against Harvard professor
\"I don't know all the facts,\" he also conceded.
He said he did not know what role race played, but \"the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.\"
Crowley, in the police report about the incident, said Gates refused to cooperate with him and repeatedly accusing him of racism when he went to Gates' home following a report of a possible break-in July 16.
Crowley said he tried to determine whether there was someone else at the home and wanted to ensure Gates' safety.
Gates, however, told him \"that I had no idea who I was 'messing' with\" and was being so loud that he could not give pertinent information to the department when he was calling in, the sergeant said.
Authorities have said they may release tapes of the officer calling in, in which Gates is heard in the background
Crowley's report said that when he asked to speak with Gates outside, the professor at one point responded, \"I'll speak with your mama outside.\" Video Watch Crowley's response »
Gates' attorney, Charles Ogletree, said the professor never made such a remark.
The full story will show that Gates did nothing wrong -- and that Crowley did not identify himself at first, Ogletree said.
Gates said Wednesday he would listen to Crowley \"if he would tell the truth about what he did, about the distortions that he fabricated in the police report. I would be prepared as a human being to forgive him.\"
Crowley has said he will not apologize. The police incident report states that Crowley twice provided his name to Gates, who subsequently asked for it two more times.
Gates ultimately was arrested for disorderly conduct, but the department later dropped the charges.
Cambridge police Commissioner Robert Haas said he \"deeply regrets\" the arrest but stands by the procedures his department followed.
\"I trust [Crowley's] judgment implicitly. He is a stellar officer,\" Haas said.
He added the department is \"very proud about its diversity within this community and how hard we've worked over the years to build a strong, solid relationship [between] the department and the community.\"
Haas said he agreed with Crowley about Obama's remarks.
\"I have to tell you the officers take that very personally and basically feel hurt by that comment. We truly are trying to do the best service we can to the community and sometimes we make mistakes. We're human. But we learn from those mistakes and we move on,\" he said.
Numerous police officers, including African-Americans, have spoken up on Crowley's behalf and portrayed him as a good and fair officer. Crowley, who is white, had once been chosen by a black police officer to teach a police academy course on ways to avoid racial profiling.
Obama said he had heard of Crowley's record, saying, \"I don't know all the extenuating circumstances, and as I said, I respect what police officers do. From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably it would have been better if cooler heads prevailed.\"
Gates' legal team argues that authorities are misrepresenting the professor and the officer, and Gates has said he is determined to keep the issue alive despite the charges being dropped.
\"This is not about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America,\" he said this week.
Ogletree said Gates might sue the department and would bring forward witnesses who say they've had similar experiences with Crowley.
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When asked for examples, Ogletree said only that they may come out in time depending on how the police department handles the situation moving forward.
\"I think you will be hearing much more complex and different perspective on him [Crowley] in the coming days and weeks,\" Ogletree said, alleging that Crowley \"is well-known among people, particularly young people, for some of his police practices.\"
#2
Sldghmr
Sldghmr
Yeah, from everything I've seen on the incident so far, I really have to side with the professor on this one. I don't understand why the officer was so adamant about there being "No apology", either. Saying that in front of a bunch of reporters just blew things up.
And for the police being insulted about Obama using the word "stupid" to describe the arrest, not the officer himself, just the actions, it seems to me like a legitimate way to describe it. It looks like a bunch of stupid decisions on the officer's part.
And for the police being insulted about Obama using the word "stupid" to describe the arrest, not the officer himself, just the actions, it seems to me like a legitimate way to describe it. It looks like a bunch of stupid decisions on the officer's part.
#3
D
Dubyamn
D
Dubyamn
The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
#4
Krisken
Krisken
You're the first person I've seen describe it like this. Is there somewhere I can read it from this perspective (neutral news source, preferably)?Dubyamn said:The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
#5
Chibibar
1. Gates DID break into his own home cause the lock was broken/not working/lost keys (not sure which but he had to)
2. Neighbor called the cops seeing a person (not recognizing the person) breaking into the home.
3. Police arrive on the call and question the "suspect"
4. After learning that Gates is the owner couple of things should have happen.
Cop side
1. Should have just report that it was false alarm and go home. There is no break in. I don't think it is against the law to break into YOUR own home (especially if you prove it)
2. Should have just let the guy vent and leave.
Gates (being a professor)
1. should have kept his cool, but I guess after a long trip and having to break into YOUR own home, well... I would not be in the best of moods at the time
2. Should have realize (being an intelligent man) that the cop is doing his duty and let the cop go (of course the allege name calling happening here which we still don't have proof yet. It is all "He said, he said"
both are being a dick, but the "cooler head" should have been the cop and just let it go.
Now.... we do have some officers on the forum, do you agree with my assessment?
Chibibar
I been following this since yesterday, but with current facts (at least what is reported)Chazwozel said:Normally I side with the police in terms of tasers on naked wizards and other assholes, but seriously this cop and his prescient are a bunch of moronic bullies who are getting called out on their ignorance and stupidity. You don't just arrest a dignified scholar in his own home for stupid reasons. I'm not saying that Dr. Gates is above the law, but he clearly showed it was his house, and the cop was NOT needed there any further. He should have FUCKING LEFT, GATES'S HOUSE after it was established that it was his home. I fully understand why Gates would become irate after a long business trip, having to bust open his own door, and then being bothered by a bully cop who refuses to leave his property.
1. Gates DID break into his own home cause the lock was broken/not working/lost keys (not sure which but he had to)
2. Neighbor called the cops seeing a person (not recognizing the person) breaking into the home.
3. Police arrive on the call and question the "suspect"
4. After learning that Gates is the owner couple of things should have happen.
Cop side
1. Should have just report that it was false alarm and go home. There is no break in. I don't think it is against the law to break into YOUR own home (especially if you prove it)
2. Should have just let the guy vent and leave.
Gates (being a professor)
1. should have kept his cool, but I guess after a long trip and having to break into YOUR own home, well... I would not be in the best of moods at the time
2. Should have realize (being an intelligent man) that the cop is doing his duty and let the cop go (of course the allege name calling happening here which we still don't have proof yet. It is all "He said, he said"
both are being a dick, but the "cooler head" should have been the cop and just let it go.
Now.... we do have some officers on the forum, do you agree with my assessment?
#6
D
Dubyamn
D
Dubyamn
Unfortunately there is no neutral news source that has any kind of story that isn't directly lifted from Gates' lawyer or from the official report. There is only one news story that I found that had any kind of witness statement but the only thing the witness said was that Gates was belligerent and was yelling.
http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-st ... s-gates-jr
Lawyer's version of events
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ates1.html
Police report.
I go with the police reports version of events because it actually makes sense to me. Gates' version of events just doesn't.
http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-st ... s-gates-jr
Lawyer's version of events
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ates1.html
Police report.
I go with the police reports version of events because it actually makes sense to me. Gates' version of events just doesn't.
#7
Singularity.EXE
Singularity.EXE
I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
#8
sixpackshaker
Cops are normally expected to take shit of the people that they are trying to protect, but they don't have to.
Gates did not need to be arrested, but at some point a cop does not need to have his mother insulted.
-- Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:49 pm --
sixpackshaker
Every time I've read the story, that is how it is described. The cops were called to the scene of a break in. They ask for credentials to prove that the man in the house belonged there. Gates starts screaming at the cops about being profiled, wanting the badge # of the cop. Which btw is on his badge. The officer refused to give his badge #, which again is in plain sight. The cop leaves, and Dr. Gates follows him outside and continues to insult the cop. The photo on Yahoo news looks to back up the cop's story. There was even another African American cop on the scene.Krisken said:You're the first person I've seen describe it like this. Is there somewhere I can read it from this perspective (neutral news source, preferably)?Dubyamn said:The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
Cops are normally expected to take shit of the people that they are trying to protect, but they don't have to.
Gates did not need to be arrested, but at some point a cop does not need to have his mother insulted.
-- Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:49 pm --
Right, it sounded like the cop was the one getting bullied by a celebrity professor at one of the world's best colleges.Singularity.EXE said:I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
#9
Espy
Espy
Yeah, outside of the lawyer I haven't heard any other version.sixpackshaker said:Every time I've read the story, that is how it is described.Krisken said:You're the first person I've seen describe it like this. Is there somewhere I can read it from this perspective (neutral news source, preferably)?Dubyamn said:The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
#10
Singularity.EXE
Singularity.EXE
Holy shit, I just read the lawyer's statement. Are you fucking kidding me?
I want to hear something from the witnesses, it seemed like there should be a lot of them.
I want to hear something from the witnesses, it seemed like there should be a lot of them.
#11
MindDetective
MindDetective
I'm not siding with the cops here but it doesn't sound like there is much dignity in Professor Gates' actions to me.Chazwozel said:dignified
#12
rac3r_x
rac3r_x
This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.
"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP"
"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!"
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the shit out?
"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP"
"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!"
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the shit out?
#13
Espy
Espy
I must have missed that, did they do any of that to him? Sounded to me like they just handcuffed him for disorderly conduct, which if it's true is well within their rights to do so.rac3r_x said:Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
#14
rac3r_x
rac3r_x
No that last part is not referring to Gates but to the trend I have seen lately in most stories about people detained wrongfully by police.Espy said:I must have missed that, did they do any of that to him? Sounded to me like they just handcuffed him for disorderly conduct, which if it's true is well within their rights to do so.rac3r_x said:Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
#15
GasBandit
GasBandit
Related?
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoeRxnHKaRs:3emq7aqm][/youtube:3emq7aqm]
You don't wanna miss 3:40.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoeRxnHKaRs:3emq7aqm][/youtube:3emq7aqm]
You don't wanna miss 3:40.
#16
D
Dubyamn
D
Dubyamn
So we should be celebrating that the cop was a professional all the way through the incident? I mean the cop never reached for or drew a weapon and was able to cuff him without incident. To top it off he tried multiple times to calm the situation down and was actually leaving while Gates pursued and made a scene.rac3r_x said:This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.
\"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP\"
\"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!\"
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
#17
Neither side did what they should have. And Obama should have not answered the question as he ends up looking like a tool no matter which way he answered it. His answer should have been, "The incident was unfortunate but at this time I think commenting would be premature."
End of story.
End of story.
#18
Chibibar
While I can see that being a friend would normally take your friend's word, but the president has a "higher image" and should be careful of every action (I mean the new talk about Obama's jean for crying out loud)
Chibibar
^-- agreeEdrondol said:Neither side did what they should have. And Obama should have not answered the question as he ends up looking like a tool no matter which way he answered it. His answer should have been, "The incident was unfortunate but at this time I think commenting would be premature."
End of story.
While I can see that being a friend would normally take your friend's word, but the president has a "higher image" and should be careful of every action (I mean the new talk about Obama's jean for crying out loud)
#19
MindDetective
MindDetective
It kinda seemed like they wanted the last question to take the lead to me. Maybe not, but the White House is pretty damn media savvy these days...Edrondol said:Neither side did what they should have. And Obama should have not answered the question as he ends up looking like a tool no matter which way he answered it. His answer should have been, "The incident was unfortunate but at this time I think commenting would be premature."
End of story.
#20
Espy
Espy
I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
#21
Chibibar
Chibibar
I was kind of shock on how quickly Obama commented on this matter. He usually is very careful about these kind of things.Espy said:I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
#22
MindDetective
MindDetective
All the more reason I think it may have been intentional. Obama prefaced his calling on the last reporter by saying he'd promised one last question to her. If intentional, it was either to take focus of a healthcare debate that is directionless or to put focus on race relations. I'd guess the former but maybe it was all just a cock up.Chibibar said:I was kind of shock on how quickly Obama commented on this matter. He usually is very careful about these kind of things.Espy said:I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
#23
D
Dubyamn
Then in 3 minutes he managed to destroy all that because nobody cares what he said about health care reform. For the same effect he could have spent the night eating Bon-Bons watching sportscenter and then write it up and give it to his press secretary to read for him and we would have no different news coverage right now.
And he's not going to be able to get back on message because he has the Police union sending him open letters, the cop talking back in the press and police across the country shaking their heads at him.
D
Dubyamn
I don't know if Obama or some other democrat had been having some kind of scandal I think he would have loved to get America interested in some other shiney ball. but nobody was investigating a scandel or anything else. As it is Obama spent all of that night talking about his health care reforms. How it'll lower costs, bring healthcare to millions and cause us to live longer healthier lives.MindDetective said:It kinda seemed like they wanted the last question to take the lead to me. Maybe not, but the White House is pretty damn media savvy these days...
Then in 3 minutes he managed to destroy all that because nobody cares what he said about health care reform. For the same effect he could have spent the night eating Bon-Bons watching sportscenter and then write it up and give it to his press secretary to read for him and we would have no different news coverage right now.
And he's not going to be able to get back on message because he has the Police union sending him open letters, the cop talking back in the press and police across the country shaking their heads at him.
#24
GeneralOrder24
GeneralOrder24
Sounds to me like the man was a total dick in this situation. The man kept asking for his name, and just talked over him when he went to give it. The officer went to leave, and the man followed him out and became more irate. As there was already a crowd of people there, the cop warned the man twice that he was being disorderly. When he was arresting the man, the man said he couldn't walk without his cane so he moved the cuffs to the front so he could hold his cane.
Oh yeah, sounds totally racist to me. The cop definitley needs to apologize now.....twice for good measure.
Oh yeah, sounds totally racist to me. The cop definitley needs to apologize now.....twice for good measure.
#25
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
Just read the number of names that get added to America's Peace Officer's Memorial each year to figure out why cops will put people to the ground so fast.rac3r_x said:This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.
\"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP\"
\"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!\"
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
#26
Espy
Espy
Wasn't it just recently that they were caught basically planting questions from the Huffpo? I think he knew exactly what was going on when he called on that reporter.MindDetective said:All the more reason I think it may have been intentional. Obama prefaced his calling on the last reporter by saying he'd promised one last question to her. If intentional, it was either to take focus of a healthcare debate that is directionless or to put focus on race relations. I'd guess the former but maybe it was all just a * up.Chibibar said:I was kind of shock on how quickly Obama commented on this matter. He usually is very careful about these kind of things.Espy said:I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
#27
Chazwozel
Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
Chazwozel
Singularity.EXE said:I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
#28
This just in:
I call bullshit. What else does "they acted stupidly" mean?
CNN said:Obama speaks to police officer in Gates case
WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Barack Obama said Friday he spoke with the police officer who arrested a Harvard professor and told the officer that he did not mean to malign the Cambridge Police Department.
I call bullshit. What else does "they acted stupidly" mean?
#29
GasBandit
GasBandit
From what I read, he refused at first to show any ID, but when the handcuffs came out so did the school ID... but by then it's too late to un-disorderly yourself.Chazwozel said:Singularity.EXE said:I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
#30
Espy
Espy
If that is true then yeah, he made a mistake and had to pay for it. You act like a dick to cops and surprise! You go to jail.GasBandit said:From what I read, he refused at first to show any ID, but when the handcuffs came out so did the school ID... but by then it's too late to un-disorderly yourself.Chazwozel said:Singularity.EXE said:I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
#31
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
It means he took his friend's side of the story. In reality a President should not speak out on a police matter with out a Justice Department Inquiry to back him up.Edrondol said:This just in:
CNN said:Obama speaks to police officer in Gates case
WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Barack Obama said Friday he spoke with the police officer who arrested a Harvard professor and told the officer that he did not mean to malign the Cambridge Police Department.
I call bullshit. What else does "they acted stupidly" mean?
#32
D
Dubyamn
D
Dubyamn
It's not Gates at first refused to ID himself but later on he retrieved his Harvard ID for the officer. At that point the officer started calling in that it was a false alarm but had to go out of the house because of Gates' yelling. Gates pursued and continued to yell which is when he was told to calm down and subsequently arrested.Espy said:If that is true then yeah, he made a mistake and had to pay for it. You act like a * to cops and surprise! You go to jail.
#33
Espy
Espy
So it's purely a disorderly conduct thing then. Fair enough. Hardly sounds like an abuse of police power if the report is correct.Dubyamn said:It's not Gates at first refused to ID himself but later on he retrieved his Harvard ID for the officer. At that point the officer started calling in that it was a false alarm but had to go out of the house because of Gates' yelling. Gates pursued and continued to yell which is when he was told to calm down and subsequently arrested.Espy said:If that is true then yeah, he made a mistake and had to pay for it. You act like a * to cops and surprise! You go to jail.
#34
GeneralOrder24
It was both. The cop asked for ID, the man refused and cried racism for a bit, and then went inside to get his wallet. The copy arrested him AFTER seeing his ID, as the man was repeatedly loud and disorderly outside.
GeneralOrder24
GasBandit said:From what I read, he refused at first to show any ID, but when the handcuffs came out so did the school ID... but by then it's too late to un-disorderly yourself.Chazwozel said:Singularity.EXE said:I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
It was both. The cop asked for ID, the man refused and cried racism for a bit, and then went inside to get his wallet. The copy arrested him AFTER seeing his ID, as the man was repeatedly loud and disorderly outside.
#35
Chibibar
Chibibar
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5186611n
I can feel the man. sometimes I answer these post faster than getting my brain wrap around it and people jump on my case.
I do love the last comment at the end of the video
I can feel the man. sometimes I answer these post faster than getting my brain wrap around it and people jump on my case.
I do love the last comment at the end of the video
#36
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
All too often? It's because you don't read stories where police aren't being accused of some sort of misconduct because no one writes them. You'll never see in the paper, "Officer arrests man accused of crime relatively peacably, things sorted out later at station." because that is not news. That happens hundreds of times a day in every city in the world.rac3r_x said:This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.
\"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP\"
\"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!\"
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the shit out?
#37
Zappit
Zappit
From what I've been hearing/reading, Gates wouldn't initially provide ID to prove he was who he claimed he was, then started crying race. He then produced ID, and when the cops were leaving, he went off on them. Basically, disorderly conduct was happening, and if he was insulting the cops and their mothers, he could have gotten an assault charge. (verbal)
The arresting officer is an expert on racial issues, even teaching classes at the police academy on that topic for five years; he was appointed by a former chief of police who himself was black. This is not someone who would harass someone based on race. He arrested a man who was getting out of control. He followed protocol. Would you follow a report of a break-in, and then simply leave if the guy inside says, "It's my house."? It gets to a point where the police don't have to take shit from an uncooperative person. I don't think that cop has anything to apologize for - now that more information is coming out, it seems that he was acting pretty responsibly, and he's got every right to say he's got nothing to apologize for.
As for the Obama comments - good job, moron. "I don't have all the facts, but I do think the police acted stupidly." He shouldn't have been commenting on a local issue at all, let alone condemning and downright insulting the cops at the same time. But, you know, Gates and Obama are friends, so it's not too surprising he took Gates' side. If anything, the president's blunt, irresponsibly reactionary comments didn't do too much for race relations with those statements. I'm disappointed, more than anything, because he really seemed like he was above that kind of thing, or at least smarter than that.
The arresting officer is an expert on racial issues, even teaching classes at the police academy on that topic for five years; he was appointed by a former chief of police who himself was black. This is not someone who would harass someone based on race. He arrested a man who was getting out of control. He followed protocol. Would you follow a report of a break-in, and then simply leave if the guy inside says, "It's my house."? It gets to a point where the police don't have to take shit from an uncooperative person. I don't think that cop has anything to apologize for - now that more information is coming out, it seems that he was acting pretty responsibly, and he's got every right to say he's got nothing to apologize for.
As for the Obama comments - good job, moron. "I don't have all the facts, but I do think the police acted stupidly." He shouldn't have been commenting on a local issue at all, let alone condemning and downright insulting the cops at the same time. But, you know, Gates and Obama are friends, so it's not too surprising he took Gates' side. If anything, the president's blunt, irresponsibly reactionary comments didn't do too much for race relations with those statements. I'm disappointed, more than anything, because he really seemed like he was above that kind of thing, or at least smarter than that.
#38
Chibibar
I think Gates did act poorly, but he did just came home after a long trip from China, had to break into his own house because the front door is faulty, while surveying his house, saw a police in his porch. I'm sure Gates was cranky at the time, but we have no record of what is actually was said (or tone for that matter) and Gates just jump the cop verbally and it kinda escalate from there.
Chibibar
yea.. the police report link (page 1) show that Gates did show the ID later and it was establish that Gates is the owner/resident of the home.Zappit said:From what I've been hearing/reading, Gates wouldn't initially provide ID to prove he was who he claimed he was, then started crying race. He then produced ID, and when the cops were leaving, he went off on them. Basically, disorderly conduct was happening, and if he was insulting the cops and their mothers, he could have gotten an assault charge. (verbal)
The arresting officer is an expert on racial issues, even teaching classes at the police academy on that topic for five years; he was appointed by a former chief of police who himself was black. This is not someone who would harass someone based on race. He arrested a man who was getting out of control. He followed protocol. Would you follow a report of a break-in, and then simply leave if the guy inside says, "It's my house."? It gets to a point where the police don't have to take shit from an uncooperative person. I don't think that cop has anything to apologize for - now that more information is coming out, it seems that he was acting pretty responsibly, and he's got every right to say he's got nothing to apologize for.
As for the Obama comments - good job, moron. "I don't have all the facts, but I do think the police acted stupidly." He shouldn't have been commenting on a local issue at all, let alone condemning and downright insulting the cops at the same time. But, you know, Gates and Obama are friends, so it's not too surprising he took Gates' side. If anything, the president's blunt, irresponsibly reactionary comments didn't do too much for race relations with those statements. I'm disappointed, more than anything, because he really seemed like he was above that kind of thing, or at least smarter than that.
I think Gates did act poorly, but he did just came home after a long trip from China, had to break into his own house because the front door is faulty, while surveying his house, saw a police in his porch. I'm sure Gates was cranky at the time, but we have no record of what is actually was said (or tone for that matter) and Gates just jump the cop verbally and it kinda escalate from there.
#39
Zappit
Zappit
He could have been cranky, but you have got to keep your cool with the police. There has never been any exceptions to that rule, and it's always been that way. He initially didn't cooperate, but got even more upset after the cops were starting to leave. If he really did lose his temper and insulted the cops, the arrest was justified. If not, then the cops acted out of line. Gates is claiming he willingly offered his ID immediately, never cried race, and was an absolute gentleman the entire time the police were there. That just doesn't seem to be the story, though.
All we need is more time to find out what really happened. Maybe there's something on a dashboard cam. Maybe there's some other witnesses. We just need to wait and see.
All we need is more time to find out what really happened. Maybe there's something on a dashboard cam. Maybe there's some other witnesses. We just need to wait and see.
#40
Krisken
Krisken
Ooooohh, not a good word to use. Just FYI.Zappit said:He could have been cranky, but you have got to keep your cool with the police. There has never been any exceptions to that rule, and it's always been that way. He initially didn't cooperate, but got even more uppity after the cops were starting to leave. If he really did lose his temper and insulted the cops, the arrest was justified. If not, then the cops acted out of line. Gates is claiming he willingly offered his ID immediately, never cried race, and was an absolute gentleman the entire time the police were there. That just doesn't seem to be the story, though.
All we need is more time to find out what really happened. Maybe there's something on a dashboard cam. Maybe there's some other witnesses. We just need to wait and see.
#42
Krisken
Krisken
You're kidding, right?redthirtyone said:Howso?Krisken said:Ooooohh, not a good word to use. Just FYI.
#43
Cajungal
Cajungal
You're never heard the insult "uppity n****." It was generally used when someone felt that a black person didn't "know their place." I don't know if everyone would pick up on that today, but I kind of thought the same thing.
#44
Krisken
Sadly, the word is still pretty well known for those negatives here in the United States. While not said, it's well understood what is usually implied.
Keep in mind I in no way was trying to say that Zappit was making a covert offensive comment. I just thought that I would point out a word that is a poor choice and could detract from the message he wished to portray.
Edit: For what I really wanted to say, not what it said
Krisken
It has dawned on me that redthirtyone might not be American, which would help to understand why he wouldn't know the words negative connotation.Cajungal said:You're never heard the insult "uppity n****." It was generally used when someone felt that a black person didn't "know their place." I don't know if everyone would pick up on that today, but I kind of thought the same thing.
Sadly, the word is still pretty well known for those negatives here in the United States. While not said, it's well understood what is usually implied.
Keep in mind I in no way was trying to say that Zappit was making a covert offensive comment. I just thought that I would point out a word that is a poor choice and could detract from the message he wished to portray.
Edit: For what I really wanted to say, not what it said
#45
Chazwozel
Dude, what rock did you just crawl out from under?
And a big :eyeroll: to people using the police report as a source for the time that Gates showed his I.D. I'm sure the cop wrote everything down according to exactly how it happened.
Chazwozel
redthirtyone said:Howso?Krisken said:Ooooohh, not a good word to use. Just FYI.
Dude, what rock did you just crawl out from under?
And a big :eyeroll: to people using the police report as a source for the time that Gates showed his I.D. I'm sure the cop wrote everything down according to exactly how it happened.
#46
redthirtyone
redthirtyone
Well - now that its been pointed out - yeah I've heard of it before. But the wrong person fell for the bait.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity
Was where I had to go to be "reminded" of this connotation, and of the 10 definitions there, only the one has it a such. So basically - the word uppity can't be used in this situation because the person acting in such an uppity was is black?
Because that's exactly how he was acting. He was being a snobby, elitist, educated prick. The whole thing smells of Gates whipping out the "don't you know who I am?" line that "famous" people like to use when they're not getting the royal treatment the feel they deserve. He even went so far as to complete the set by asking for the cop's badge # - which is law enforcement for "Let me speak to your manager". The fact that he is black just allows a larger group of people to be sympathetic to his version of the story. Oh - and then we throw in the cane bit :eyeroll:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity
Was where I had to go to be "reminded" of this connotation, and of the 10 definitions there, only the one has it a such. So basically - the word uppity can't be used in this situation because the person acting in such an uppity was is black?
Because that's exactly how he was acting. He was being a snobby, elitist, educated prick. The whole thing smells of Gates whipping out the "don't you know who I am?" line that "famous" people like to use when they're not getting the royal treatment the feel they deserve. He even went so far as to complete the set by asking for the cop's badge # - which is law enforcement for "Let me speak to your manager". The fact that he is black just allows a larger group of people to be sympathetic to his version of the story. Oh - and then we throw in the cane bit :eyeroll:
#47
Chazwozel
...or he was exhausted from an almost 24 hour long day of travel from China, had to bust open his front door, and then deal with the embarrassment of getting hounded by a cop for longer than required.
Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
Chazwozel
redthirtyone said:Well - now that its been pointed out - yeah I've heard of it before. But the wrong person fell for the bait.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity
Was where I had to go to be \"reminded\" of this connotation, and of the 10 definitions there, only the one has it a such. So basically - the word uppity can't be used in this situation because the person acting in such an uppity was is black?
Because that's exactly how he was acting. He was being a snobby, elitist, educated *. The whole thing smells of Gates whipping out the \"don't you know who I am?\" line that \"famous\" people like to use when they're not getting the royal treatment the feel they deserve. He even went so far as to complete the set by asking for the cop's badge # - which is law enforcement for \"Let me speak to your manager\". The fact that he is black just allows a larger group of people to be sympathetic to his version of the story. Oh - and then we throw in the cane bit :eyeroll:
...or he was exhausted from an almost 24 hour long day of travel from China, had to bust open his front door, and then deal with the embarrassment of getting hounded by a cop for longer than required.
Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
#48
Krisken
Krisken
Stop acting like it's unknown. It's on the front page when you google "uppity definition".
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
#49
Zappit
Zappit
Okay - kicking my own ass for that one. I was not familiar with that term. I meant that Gates was acting aggressive and obnoxious - that's all.
#50
Steve
Steve
Last thing we need is the press asking Obama what he things about Halforum's use of the word "uppity".
#51
blotsfan
blotsfan
If Gates was white, he wouldn't have bitched about racism.Chazwozel said:redthirtyone said:Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
#52
Krisken
Krisken
They have to fill the 24 hour news cycle somehow. :heythere:Steve said:Last thing we need is the press asking Obama what he things about Halforum's use of the word "uppity".
Um, duh? Unless you're implying he should considering all that oppression white men have felt over the years.blotsfan said:If Gates was white, he wouldn't have bitched about racism.Chazwozel said:redthirtyone said:Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
#53
blotsfan
blotsfan
Well, it sounds like that the anger over the perceived racism is what got him in trouble, so its very obvious that if he was white he wouldn't have been arrested.
#54
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
What technically constitutes "disorderly conduct"? It seems very ambiguous. I have a hard time seeing a middle-aged man mouthing off on his own property as anything that even remotely requires arrest, as opposed to just walking out the door.
#55
D
Dubyamn
Maybe the cop would have acted differently maybe he wouldn't have but Gates wouldn't have acted the way he did.
D
Dubyamn
No he's just pointing out how comparing what would have happened if Gates was white is like comparing Apples and Oranges because Gates would have acted completely differently if he was white.Krisken said:Um, duh? Unless you're implying he should considering all that oppression white men have felt over the years.blotsfan said:If Gates was white, he wouldn't have bitched about racism.Chazwozel said:redthirtyone said:Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
Maybe the cop would have acted differently maybe he wouldn't have but Gates wouldn't have acted the way he did.
#56
Chazwozel
Yeah those wacky black people and their sense of self worth and dignity. :eyeroll: Gotta hate when they stand up for themselves and get all 'uppity'.
Chazwozel
Dubyamn said:No he's just pointing out how comparing what would have happened if Gates was white is like comparing Apples and Oranges because Gates would have acted completely differently if he was white.Krisken said:Um, duh? Unless you're implying he should considering all that oppression white men have felt over the years.blotsfan said:If Gates was white, he wouldn't have bitched about racism.
Maybe the cop would have acted differently maybe he wouldn't have but Gates wouldn't have acted the way he did.
Yeah those wacky black people and their sense of self worth and dignity. :eyeroll: Gotta hate when they stand up for themselves and get all 'uppity'.
#57
blotsfan
blotsfan
Well, you were whining that the only reason the cops went after him was because he was black, when the act that he was arrested for wouldn't have happened if he was white.
#58
Cat
Cat
Fuck the police, am I right?
#59
redthirtyone
Point being - I live in KY. Not the heart of the south but close enough to catch some racial sensitivity, and despite not having heard the term in a while, when I hear the term "uppity", regardless of the context, my mind does not go straight where yours (and apparently a few others) go. Apparently in the Match Game that you guys are playing, the $1000 response is the n-word. There's a lot more words that have been paired over the years with that term, are we forbidden from using those too? Point being that Zappit made a comment, and because of a connotation that he was unaware of - due to some bigoted crusty old white boys in the dark past - is made to feel like a shitty racist. Hell he's even fucking apologizing for it. Good call on his part however, shouldn't be necessary, but good call.
The underlying bit of it all. It is a thankless job. Nobody WANTS to see the police. The only time anybody's ever happy to see a cop is when something bad has already happened or is about to. Then you draw the short straw and get a call to go investigate a possible break-in at a residence, and some guy who doesn't know you from Adam goes off on you and calls you a racist. Next you know you're national news. I feel bad for the guy, because Gates & his lawyer are not going to let this go away like it should, and as we see quite often, money & prestige get you lots of things in the legal world. I'm sure it will be terribly difficult for Gates' team to find some young black kids to testify that the cop is racist. It doesn't help that the mayor fell all over herself to apologize to Gates in the early going.
I hope that they can quickly get past it all to the part about the three of them having a beer on the white house lawn.
redthirtyone
Oh please wtf-ever. I've been around the several incarnations of this forum for years now and hardly ever post, but this one instance makes me a troll now.Krisken said:Stop acting like it's unknown. It's on the front page when you google "uppity definition".
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
Point being - I live in KY. Not the heart of the south but close enough to catch some racial sensitivity, and despite not having heard the term in a while, when I hear the term "uppity", regardless of the context, my mind does not go straight where yours (and apparently a few others) go. Apparently in the Match Game that you guys are playing, the $1000 response is the n-word. There's a lot more words that have been paired over the years with that term, are we forbidden from using those too? Point being that Zappit made a comment, and because of a connotation that he was unaware of - due to some bigoted crusty old white boys in the dark past - is made to feel like a shitty racist. Hell he's even fucking apologizing for it. Good call on his part however, shouldn't be necessary, but good call.
Somewhere up there this last line got attributed to me - anyways. I don't care how exhausted, tired or frustrated he was. He is supposedly well-educated enough to know his place. A cop shows up and says he's investigating a call for a possible break-in, you cooperate with him to rectify the situation, and then you thank him for making the trip over. You DON'T however, start accusing the man of racism. From the accounts I've read, the first time the officer saw Gates in person was when Gates finally opened the door after several requests and said "why? because I'm a black man in america?"Chazwozel said:...or he was exhausted from an almost 24 hour long day of travel from China, had to bust open his front door, and then deal with the embarrassment of getting hounded by a cop for longer than required.
Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
and THERE it is. :eyeroll:Cat said:fuck the police, am I right?
The underlying bit of it all. It is a thankless job. Nobody WANTS to see the police. The only time anybody's ever happy to see a cop is when something bad has already happened or is about to. Then you draw the short straw and get a call to go investigate a possible break-in at a residence, and some guy who doesn't know you from Adam goes off on you and calls you a racist. Next you know you're national news. I feel bad for the guy, because Gates & his lawyer are not going to let this go away like it should, and as we see quite often, money & prestige get you lots of things in the legal world. I'm sure it will be terribly difficult for Gates' team to find some young black kids to testify that the cop is racist. It doesn't help that the mayor fell all over herself to apologize to Gates in the early going.
I hope that they can quickly get past it all to the part about the three of them having a beer on the white house lawn.
#60
SpecialKO
If the cop gave him a fine for being noisy than this would have just been funny, but the arrest really rubs me the wrong way, the more I read about it.
Was there any indication whatsoever of physical or about-to-be physical altercation? Did Gates make any kind of threatening statement?
If Cambridge police are allowed to arrest people because their moms got insulted, I wouldn't want them as school traffic monitors.
SpecialKO
Personally, I'm far more concerned that a man, whatever his race, can be arrested for, apparently, just yelling on his own property, and then having cops, various media outlets, and individuals line up and say the arrest was the proper procedure.redthirtyone said:Point being - I live in KY. Not the heart of the south but close enough to catch some racial sensitivity, and despite not having heard the term in a while, when I hear the term "uppity", regardless of the context, my mind does not go straight where yours (and apparently a few others) go.
If the cop gave him a fine for being noisy than this would have just been funny, but the arrest really rubs me the wrong way, the more I read about it.
Was there any indication whatsoever of physical or about-to-be physical altercation? Did Gates make any kind of threatening statement?
If Cambridge police are allowed to arrest people because their moms got insulted, I wouldn't want them as school traffic monitors.
#61
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Conor Friedersdorf makes a very fair point about perspective.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... about.html
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... about.html
#62
Chazwozel
Damn!
Chazwozel
redthirtyone said:Oh please wtf-ever. I've been around the several incarnations of this forum for years now and hardly ever post, but this one instance makes me a troll now.Krisken said:Stop acting like it's unknown. It's on the front page when you google "uppity definition".
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
Point being - I live in KY. Not the heart of the south but close enough to catch some racial sensitivity, and despite not having heard the term in a while, when I hear the term "uppity", regardless of the context, my mind does not go straight where yours (and apparently a few others) go. Apparently in the Match Game that you guys are playing, the $1000 response is the n-word. There's a lot more words that have been paired over the years with that term, are we forbidden from using those too? Point being that Zappit made a comment, and because of a connotation that he was unaware of - due to some bigoted crusty old white boys in the dark past - is made to feel like a shitty racist. * he's even smurfing apologizing for it. Good call on his part however, shouldn't be necessary, but good call.
Somewhere up there this last line got attributed to me - anyways. I don't care how exhausted, tired or frustrated he was. He is supposedly well-educated enough to know his place. A cop shows up and says he's investigating a call for a possible break-in, you cooperate with him to rectify the situation, and then you thank him for making the trip over. You DON'T however, start accusing the man of racism. From the accounts I've read, the first time the officer saw Gates in person was when Gates finally opened the door after several requests and said "why? because I'm a black man in america?"Chazwozel said:...or he was exhausted from an almost 24 hour long day of travel from China, had to bust open his front door, and then deal with the embarrassment of getting hounded by a cop for longer than required.
Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
Damn!
#63
Krisken
I wasn't looking for an apology, and I should have sent a PM just to let him know about it.
What I will not agree with is that racism is somehow in the past. It isn't. It's silly to even assert that it is.
I think what I find saddest is that you are insistent in trying to frame this as some sort of free speech debate. Like being aware of a words negative meaning and being made aware of it is somehow an asshole maneuver. I never asked for the banning of a word. I simply asked for understanding of it's common perceived context.
But who knows. You're from Kentucky, where racism is apparently dying out.
Krisken
Fake outrage? Really? I don't care how often you post. I was referring to this...redthirtyone said:Oh please wtf-ever. I've been around the several incarnations of this forum for years now and hardly ever post, but this one instance makes me a troll now.Krisken said:Stop acting like it's unknown. It's on the front page when you google "uppity definition".
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
However, lets ignore this stupidity and hop into what's actually interesting, ok?redthirtyone said:Well - now that its been pointed out - yeah I've heard of it before. But the wrong person fell for the bait.
Nobody called Zappit racist. Hell, if you bothered to read my posts instead of going super rage you would have seen I specifically said that I understood it was probably a word used without any thought to the connotation. It's ok, it's hard to understand the difference between the "What you are" and the "What you said" argument. It's easy to get the two mixed up.redthirtyone said:Point being - I live in KY. Not the heart of the south but close enough to catch some racial sensitivity, and despite not having heard the term in a while, when I hear the term "uppity", regardless of the context, my mind does not go straight where yours (and apparently a few others) go. Apparently in the Match Game that you guys are playing, the $1000 response is the n-word. There's a lot more words that have been paired over the years with that term, are we forbidden from using those too? Point being that Zappit made a comment, and because of a connotation that he was unaware of - due to some bigoted crusty old white boys in the dark past - is made to feel like a shitty racist. Hell he's even fucking apologizing for it. Good call on his part however, shouldn't be necessary, but good call.
I wasn't looking for an apology, and I should have sent a PM just to let him know about it.
What I will not agree with is that racism is somehow in the past. It isn't. It's silly to even assert that it is.
I think what I find saddest is that you are insistent in trying to frame this as some sort of free speech debate. Like being aware of a words negative meaning and being made aware of it is somehow an asshole maneuver. I never asked for the banning of a word. I simply asked for understanding of it's common perceived context.
But who knows. You're from Kentucky, where racism is apparently dying out.
#64
Le Quack
Le Quack
Its my opinion that cops can go fuck themselves.
But thats just me. Go pres Obama.
Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
But thats just me. Go pres Obama.
Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
#65
D
Dubyamn
Nice work putting words in my mouth by the way really adds a whole level of respectability to your argument that you can't even argue against what I said.
D
Dubyamn
Do you really believe that a white professor would have acted the way Gates did by immediately bringing up race?Chazwozel said:Yeah those wacky black people and their sense of self worth and dignity. :eyeroll: Gotta hate when they stand up for themselves and get all 'uppity'.
Nice work putting words in my mouth by the way really adds a whole level of respectability to your argument that you can't even argue against what I said.
#66
Chibibar
Chibibar
it all boils down to two people SHOULD have acted properly.
We have a professor who is well educated (Harvard Professor no less. When people say Harvard University, most people would think these are well educated or rich
)
We have a police office with GREAT service record and TEACH racial profiling.
The situation was pretty much the "worst case" scenario that both could have done (well.. it could have lead to a gun fight but at least verbally)
The officer should have given a ticket to Gates for being an ass and disturbing the peace. The officer could have just wrote down his name and badge number and hand to the guy.
The professor should have a cooler head cause he had to deal with college student. Yes, he was on a week long trip and just got home, had to break into his own home due to a broken door BUT that shouldn't be nothing compare the stuff he gets at school.
Basically, both of them show the "worst" light in this situation and kinda escalate from there. I hope that Pride doesn't get the better of each of the them and just forgive and forget and move on and have that beer with the President (hell, I would just drop anything to get that chance)
We have a professor who is well educated (Harvard Professor no less. When people say Harvard University, most people would think these are well educated or rich
)We have a police office with GREAT service record and TEACH racial profiling.
The situation was pretty much the "worst case" scenario that both could have done (well.. it could have lead to a gun fight but at least verbally)
The officer should have given a ticket to Gates for being an ass and disturbing the peace. The officer could have just wrote down his name and badge number and hand to the guy.
The professor should have a cooler head cause he had to deal with college student. Yes, he was on a week long trip and just got home, had to break into his own home due to a broken door BUT that shouldn't be nothing compare the stuff he gets at school.
Basically, both of them show the "worst" light in this situation and kinda escalate from there. I hope that Pride doesn't get the better of each of the them and just forgive and forget and move on and have that beer with the President (hell, I would just drop anything to get that chance)
#67
Espy
Espy
Man, I would love to see your judgement scale.Le Quack said:Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
#68
MindDetective
MindDetective
He's clearly talking about original sin.Espy said:Man, I would love to see your judgement scale.Le Quack said:Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
#69
Espy
Espy
Lovely! A theologian! Who knew?MindDetective said:He's clearly talking about original sin.Espy said:Man, I would love to see your judgement scale.Le Quack said:Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
#70
T
The Messiah
T
The Messiah
I say uppity all the time, mostly to my employees. Don't get all uppity. UPPITY UPPITY.
I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.
As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.
Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''
This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.
He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?
UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY
I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.
As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.
Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''
This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.
He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?
UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY
#71
Chibibar
Chibibar
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates. ... index.html
Hmmm.. This is interesting...
So the police report could be wrong?
Hmmm.. This is interesting...
So the police report could be wrong?
The woman who made the 911 call that led to the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. never referred to race when she contacted authorities for what she thought was a potential break-in, her attorney told CNN on Monday.
Attorney Wendy Murphy also categorically rejected part of the police report that said her client, Lucia Whalen, talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.
\"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene,\" Murphy said. \"And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period.\"
She added, \"I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color.\"
Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. In the police report, filed by Crowley, he says he spoke with Whalen outside the home before he approached Gates' house.
\"She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street,\" the report says. \"She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry.\"
Murphy's comments add yet another layer of intrigue to the July 16 arrest that has prompted heated discussion across the nation on race relations in America.
Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. \"The fact is she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic,\" Murphy said
#72
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
G-g-g-Glenn Beck?The Messiah said:I say uppity all the time, mostly to my employees. Don't get all uppity. UPPITY UPPITY.
I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.
As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.
Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''
This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.
He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?
UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY
#73
D
Dubyamn
D
Dubyamn
Wouldn't the second thing that the 911 operator asks for be a description of the individuals?
Definitely starting to look like the cops need to release the tapes from the initial phone call to the arrest.
Definitely starting to look like the cops need to release the tapes from the initial phone call to the arrest.
#74
Krisken
Krisken
That still won't have the conversation between the woman and the police officer on the scene, though.Dubyamn said:Wouldn't the second thing that the 911 operator asks for be a description of the individuals?
Definitely starting to look like the cops need to release the tapes from the initial phone call to the arrest.
#75
D
Dubyamn
D
Dubyamn
Shouldn't it? I thought that cops carried mics that linked with the dashboard cam. Which is why you can actually understand anything that anybody is saying during the release of those tapes.Krisken said:That still won't have the conversation between the woman and the police officer on the scene, though.
#76
Krisken
Krisken
I was unaware that police men were miked. If this is the case, I would definitely be interested it being released.Dubyamn said:Shouldn't it? I thought that cops carried mics that linked with the dashboard cam. Which is why you can actually understand anything that anybody is saying during the release of those tapes.Krisken said:That still won't have the conversation between the woman and the police officer on the scene, though.
#77
SpecialKO
Heh.
I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered "uppity" and worthy of arrest.
Worthy of a fine for disturbing the peace, sure. If he was walking down a public street screaming and refused to stop, okay. If he had completely refused to identify himself and wasn't doing anything notably different from your average robbery, like bringing in his suitcases and putting his coat in closet, okay.
But the idea that you can be arrested for yelling in your own home is ludicrous. If he had physically threatened the officer (or anyone else), then okay, case closed. I have yet to see anything saying that at all, let alone from a credible source.
I said it before; if you're so badly emotionally injured by someone making remarks about your mother that you have to arrest the person who said it to feel better, you have no business being a traffic monitor, let alone a police officer.
SpecialKO
G-g-g-Glenn Beck?[/quote:r0zrfmvp]Charlie Dont Surf said:[quote="The Messiah":r0zrfmvp]I say uppity all the time, mostly to my employees. Don't get all uppity. UPPITY UPPITY.
I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.
As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.
Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''
This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.
He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?
UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY
Heh.
I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered "uppity" and worthy of arrest.
Worthy of a fine for disturbing the peace, sure. If he was walking down a public street screaming and refused to stop, okay. If he had completely refused to identify himself and wasn't doing anything notably different from your average robbery, like bringing in his suitcases and putting his coat in closet, okay.
But the idea that you can be arrested for yelling in your own home is ludicrous. If he had physically threatened the officer (or anyone else), then okay, case closed. I have yet to see anything saying that at all, let alone from a credible source.
I said it before; if you're so badly emotionally injured by someone making remarks about your mother that you have to arrest the person who said it to feel better, you have no business being a traffic monitor, let alone a police officer.
#78
Zappit
Zappit
I had thought that dashcams were pretty popular and commonplace now - I hadn't heard much about cops being miked up.
Honestly, I'm more surprised that there isn't a cell-phone video of this out there somewhere. Everything's on YouTube now.
As for where Gates was arrested, I read today in my local paper that Gates followed Crowley outside, still berating him and yelling at him, and because he was outside the home, and that's the reason the officer arrested him for disorderly.
If you really look at it, the whole thing just seems like a clash of egos - Gates lost his temper and berated a cop, and Crowley just decided not to take crap and took advantage of a technicality - could we agree that possibly, possibly, both men were just a bit at fault here?
Honestly, I'm more surprised that there isn't a cell-phone video of this out there somewhere. Everything's on YouTube now.
As for where Gates was arrested, I read today in my local paper that Gates followed Crowley outside, still berating him and yelling at him, and because he was outside the home, and that's the reason the officer arrested him for disorderly.
If you really look at it, the whole thing just seems like a clash of egos - Gates lost his temper and berated a cop, and Crowley just decided not to take crap and took advantage of a technicality - could we agree that possibly, possibly, both men were just a bit at fault here?
#79
Chibibar
Chibibar
oh yea... you can bet BOTH men are at fault.Zappit said:I had thought that dashcams were pretty popular and commonplace now - I hadn't heard much about cops being miked up.
Honestly, I'm more surprised that there isn't a cell-phone video of this out there somewhere. Everything's on YouTube now.
As for where Gates was arrested, I read today in my local paper that Gates followed Crowley outside, still berating him and yelling at him, and because he was outside the home, and that's the reason the officer arrested him for disorderly.
If you really look at it, the whole thing just seems like a clash of egos - Gates lost his temper and berated a cop, and Crowley just decided not to take crap and took advantage of a technicality - could we agree that possibly, possibly, both men were just a bit at fault here?
#80
MindDetective
MindDetective
That's how it usually is...
#81
Cajungal
Cajungal
Sorry, had to.
#82
Chippy
AHHHAAAA!
You sir, are a comedic genius! Such wit!
Chippy
AHAHAHAHAHA!!! HOLY SHIT! AHAHAHAHAH!!! FUCKIN' A!!!The Messiah said:Buttcrack Obama
AHHHAAAA!
You sir, are a comedic genius! Such wit!
#83
Dieb
Dieb
I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report. Gates didn't just follow the police officer outside after the officer said he would leave. Not even the police report says that. The police officer ASKED Gates to step outside. Again, in the official police report: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ates2.html
Of course, the police report is almost certainly lying in at least one matter. In that report, the officer says he spoke to the woman who called 911, Lucia Whalen when he arrived at Gates' house, and that she then told the officer that she had seen two black men entering the house. However, as Chibibar linked to, Lucia Whalen denies that she ever spoke to the police officer in question. Moreover, she says she says she didn't get a clear look at Gates when he was entering the house and was unaware that he was black. This later assertion is backed by the release of the 911 call she made, in which she said one man might be hispanic and that she was completely unsure about the race of the other. So yea, I think it's pretty damn likely that the police officer has lied in this matter, at least.
Again though, we KNOW Gates didn't just follow the police officer outside, the police officer ASKED him to step outside, because that is what the police report asserts, and presumably that report is not biased against the police officer.
Of course, the police report is almost certainly lying in at least one matter. In that report, the officer says he spoke to the woman who called 911, Lucia Whalen when he arrived at Gates' house, and that she then told the officer that she had seen two black men entering the house. However, as Chibibar linked to, Lucia Whalen denies that she ever spoke to the police officer in question. Moreover, she says she says she didn't get a clear look at Gates when he was entering the house and was unaware that he was black. This later assertion is backed by the release of the 911 call she made, in which she said one man might be hispanic and that she was completely unsure about the race of the other. So yea, I think it's pretty damn likely that the police officer has lied in this matter, at least.
Again though, we KNOW Gates didn't just follow the police officer outside, the police officer ASKED him to step outside, because that is what the police report asserts, and presumably that report is not biased against the police officer.
#84
T
The Messiah
T
The Messiah
The report doesn't say he asked him to come outside. He said he would be outside if Gates had any questions. Since the guy was screaming he had to go outside to talk on his radio. Nowhere does it say he asked him to come outside.
#85
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Radley Balko has a good article about a federal appeals decision about insulting cops.
#86
T
The Messiah
T
The Messiah
38 Responses to “The First Amendment and Insulting Cops” ...
It doesn’t matter what the law says. It doesn’t matter that the constitution says. Did you ever see the constitution jump out of its glass case in the museum and throw itself between and angry police officer and his victim? Cops can do whatever they want because there is no one to enforce the law when they break it. Who’s going to enforce the laws against a cop?
Geez, JS. You obviously don’t know much about the US Constitution. Of course it doesn’t jump out of glass case in a museum to come and protect our rights.
If you had paid attention during your high school civics class, you’d know that when the Constitution is being violated, the president stands in front of a mirror and reads the Preamble to the Constitution three times. This causes the image of Lincoln on the penny nearest to the constitutional violator to come to life and grow 10 feet tall (while retaining its copper luster, of course). The giant re-animated Lincoln then wrestles the violator to the ground and forces him to say “uncle”.
The Post Office is in on it, too. That’s why stamps are never priced at amounts divisible by 5, so there will still be pennies.
#87
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Doesn't remotely invalidate the federal appeals court decision, sorry.
#88
@Li3n
@Li3n
You americans are crazy... next thing i'll hear is how someone had a tan so wasn't white at that moment.Chibibar said:Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. "The fact is she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic," Murphy said
#89
Tress
I agree with what others said: I think both men could have handled this better. As for the President's response, it was heated and he probably should have chosen his words better. I still am not going to hold it against him. He gave a passionate defense of a friend. I don't think any of it is relevant to the President's performance as commander-in-chief.
P.S. I respect and admire the police, but Krisken's right: "Disorderly conduct" is sometimes used as a catch-all phrase for "person pissed me off, and I wanted to get back at him by arresting him." The fact that the charges were dropped quickly doesn't do anything to dispute that interpretation.
Tress
You're both wrong. He never ordered Gates to go outside, and he never phrased it as a command. However, when one says "I'll speak to you outside," it's an implied request to continue the conversation outside. So he did ask him outside, and he didn't at the same time.The Messiah said:The report doesn't say he asked him to come outside. He said he would be outside if Gates had any questions. Since the guy was screaming he had to go outside to talk on his radio. Nowhere does it say he asked him to come outside.
I agree with what others said: I think both men could have handled this better. As for the President's response, it was heated and he probably should have chosen his words better. I still am not going to hold it against him. He gave a passionate defense of a friend. I don't think any of it is relevant to the President's performance as commander-in-chief.
P.S. I respect and admire the police, but Krisken's right: "Disorderly conduct" is sometimes used as a catch-all phrase for "person pissed me off, and I wanted to get back at him by arresting him." The fact that the charges were dropped quickly doesn't do anything to dispute that interpretation.
#90
T
The Messiah
Anyway, the report says one thing, but we all know cops are full of shit. So take it with a grain of salt. I got pulled over once by cops looking for someone who stole a truck just like mine. The description of the thieves was ''3 black guys with guns.'' I am actually one white guy, with no gun. That didn't stop the police from pushing me down in the middle of the street and standing on me. Yes, I said STANDING on me, making it impossible to breathe or speak. After I filed a complaint with the Tampa PD, I got a chance to read the report. You can guess how similar the report was to actual real life events.
So, make of it what you will in that regard.
I still haven't seen or heard dash cam/mike footage, the definitive and largely final word on these types of things.
T
The Messiah
The report says ''If you want to discuss it further I will be outside.'' Gates continues screaming and he says ''We can discuss this outside.'' He said it only because the dude was screaming and acting the fool. Dare I say, getting UPPITY?Tress said:You're both wrong. He never ordered Gates to go outside, and he never phrased it as a command. However, when one says "I'll speak to you outside," it's an implied request to continue the conversation outside. So he did ask him outside, and he didn't at the same time.The Messiah said:The report doesn't say he asked him to come outside. He said he would be outside if Gates had any questions. Since the guy was screaming he had to go outside to talk on his radio. Nowhere does it say he asked him to come outside.
Anyway, the report says one thing, but we all know cops are full of shit. So take it with a grain of salt. I got pulled over once by cops looking for someone who stole a truck just like mine. The description of the thieves was ''3 black guys with guns.'' I am actually one white guy, with no gun. That didn't stop the police from pushing me down in the middle of the street and standing on me. Yes, I said STANDING on me, making it impossible to breathe or speak. After I filed a complaint with the Tampa PD, I got a chance to read the report. You can guess how similar the report was to actual real life events.
So, make of it what you will in that regard.
I still haven't seen or heard dash cam/mike footage, the definitive and largely final word on these types of things.
#91
SpecialKO
Looks like Massachusetts judicial precedent requires public (as in not by a police officer) complaint for disorderly conduct to apply on private property.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa
-- Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 am --
I'm fairly sure that Chibibar's interpretation of events is pretty spot-on.
SpecialKO
Yeah, in his own house, as he was being hassled by a police officer.The Messiah said:The report says ''If you want to discuss it further I will be outside.'' Gates continues screaming and he says ''We can discuss this outside.'' He said it only because the dude was screaming and acting the fool. Dare I say, getting UPPITY
Looks like Massachusetts judicial precedent requires public (as in not by a police officer) complaint for disorderly conduct to apply on private property.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa
-- Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 am --
I'm fairly sure that Chibibar's interpretation of events is pretty spot-on.
#92
Krisken
Krisken
I would bet that's why the charges got dropped.TeKeo said:Yeah, in his own house, as he was being hassled by a police officer.The Messiah said:The report says ''If you want to discuss it further I will be outside.'' Gates continues screaming and he says ''We can discuss this outside.'' He said it only because the dude was screaming and acting the fool. Dare I say, getting UPPITY
Looks like Massachusetts judicial precedent requires public (as in not by a police officer) complaint for disorderly conduct to apply on private property.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa
-- Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 am --
I'm fairly sure that Chibibar's interpretation of events is pretty spot-on.
#93
Chazwozel
Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.
Chazwozel
Dieb said:I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.
Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.
#94
Krisken
# birth, esp. with reference to place, time, or accompanying conditions
# Astrol. the horoscope for the time of a given person's birth
Krisken
His nativity?Chazwozel said:Dieb said:I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.
Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.
# birth, esp. with reference to place, time, or accompanying conditions
# Astrol. the horoscope for the time of a given person's birth
#95
Espy
Espy
Holy crap. This changes everything.Krisken said:His nativity?Chazwozel said:Dieb said:I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.
Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.
#96
T
The Messiah
T
The Messiah
Chazwozel said:Dieb said:I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.
Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.
#97
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
look everyone, the messiah learned a new word
#98
Chazwozel
So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?
Chazwozel
The Messiah said:Chazwozel said:Dieb said:I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.
Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.
So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?
#99
Cuyval Dar
Additionally, they had already been able to enter through the back door, so it really was not necessary to break the front door
And it did look like a break in to the woman who called 911.
He called the officer racist, which is harmful to his ability to maintain control of a situation, especially with a crowd forming that may be prone to violence if they see a black man playing the race card hauled off by a white police officer.
For the TL
Rers. In summary, STFU and RTFUBA (Unbiased Articles).
Cuyval Dar
He and his driver were trying to break down the front door of the university's house. So it was not even his property that he was essentially destroying.TeKeo said:Heh.
I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered "uppity" and worthy of arrest.
Additionally, they had already been able to enter through the back door, so it really was not necessary to break the front door
He was outside screaming obscenities and accusing the officer and the police in general of racism, drawing a fairly large crowd.TeKeo said:Worthy of a fine for disturbing the peace, sure. If he was walking down a public street screaming and refused to stop, okay. If he had completely refused to identify himself and wasn't doing anything notably different from your average robbery, like bringing in his suitcases and putting his coat in closet, okay.
And it did look like a break in to the woman who called 911.
He was not inside a home, his or another person's. Rules are different based on what property you are on.TeKeo said:But the idea that you can be arrested for yelling in your own home is ludicrous. If he had physically threatened the officer (or anyone else), then okay, case closed. I have yet to see anything saying that at all, let alone from a credible source.
He called the officer racist, which is harmful to his ability to maintain control of a situation, especially with a crowd forming that may be prone to violence if they see a black man playing the race card hauled off by a white police officer.
How dense do you have to be to think that the officer was offended by an old, foolish man (falsely) seeing racial profiling in everything.TeKeo said:I said it before; if you're so badly emotionally injured by someone making remarks about your mother that you have to arrest the person who said it to feel better, you have no business being a traffic monitor, let alone a police officer.
For the TL
Rers. In summary, STFU and RTFUBA (Unbiased Articles).
#100
T
The Messiah
T
The Messiah
He is too uppity for me. Or not uppity enough. Either way, I am clearly racist for using the U word (pssst--UPPITY).Chazwozel said:The Messiah said:Chazwozel said:Dieb said:I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.
Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.
So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?
#102
Cuyval Dar
Cuyval Dar
Ok, folks, the thread is over. Please leave through the exit to your left.Chippy said:Chazwozel said:What's the deal?
#103
Chazwozel
It's like watching a 3rd grader learn the word 'fuck' for the first time, isn't it?
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
Mother mother fuck. Mother mother fuck fuck. Mother fuck mother fuck.
Noise noise noise.
1 2 1 2 3 4
Noise noise noise.
Smokin weed, smokin weed.
Doin' coke, drinkin beers.
Drinkin beers, beers beers.
Rollin' fatties, smokin blunts.
Who smokes the blunts? We smoke the blunts.
Rollin' blunts and smokin um'
<>
15 bucks, little man, put that shit in my hand.
If that money doesn't show then you owe me owe me owe.
My jungle love.
Oh e oh e oh.
I think I wanna know ya know ya ... yeah, what.
Chazwozel
He is too uppity for me. Or not uppity enough. Either way, I am clearly racist for using the U word (pssst--UPPITY).[/quote:qm4ki3zx]The Messiah said:Chazwozel said:[quote="The Messiah":qm4ki3zx]Chazwozel said:Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.
So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?
It's like watching a 3rd grader learn the word 'fuck' for the first time, isn't it?
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
Mother mother fuck. Mother mother fuck fuck. Mother fuck mother fuck.
Noise noise noise.
1 2 1 2 3 4
Noise noise noise.
Smokin weed, smokin weed.
Doin' coke, drinkin beers.
Drinkin beers, beers beers.
Rollin' fatties, smokin blunts.
Who smokes the blunts? We smoke the blunts.
Rollin' blunts and smokin um'
<>
15 bucks, little man, put that shit in my hand.
If that money doesn't show then you owe me owe me owe.
My jungle love.
Oh e oh e oh.
I think I wanna know ya know ya ... yeah, what.
#104
SpecialKO
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa
Claiming that gates was trying to incite the crowd of his neighbors to riot is pretty severely at odds with the police report, let alone the account of his lawyer.
SpecialKO
Um, it makes no difference whether he owned or rented. As far as the police are concerned, it is not a public space.Cuyval Dar said:He and his driver were trying to break down the front door of the university's house. So it was not even his property that he was essentially destroying.TeKeo said:Heh.
I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered \"uppity\" and worthy of arrest.
The police report itself points out that he was standing on his porch, and the officer had to step back onto that porch to arrest him. So no, he was not "outside".He was outside screaming obscenities and accusing the officer and the police in general of racism, drawing a fairly large crowd.
Which is not what the officer arrested him for.And it did look like a break in to the woman who called 911.
Massachusetts judicial precedent says that's not enough to arrest a man for disorderly conduct.He called the officer racist, which is harmful to his ability to maintain control of a situation, especially with a crowd forming that may be prone to violence if they see a black man playing the race card hauled off by a white police officer.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa
Claiming that gates was trying to incite the crowd of his neighbors to riot is pretty severely at odds with the police report, let alone the account of his lawyer.
The police report and that link I posted make it pretty clear you have not taken your own advice.In summary, STFU and RTFUBA (Unbiased Articles).
#105
Cuyval Dar
2. Check. He was loudly, publicly accusing a police officer of racism and racial profiling.
3. Throwing a huge fit, cursing out a cop and pulling the race card? Check. Drawing a large crowd? Check. Engaging in behavior that appeared to be a robbery, and diverted emergency resources? Check.
http://blogs.masslawyersweekly.com/news ... es-arrest/
I think that this guy from Off The Wall put it best.
The ruling that you posted involved no one but the cops and a guy making a lot of noise, with no public audience. Gates made enough noise to draw a crowd.
Thanks, but I RTFA. Please try again.
Cuyval Dar
Merriam-Webster said:2. outside - the outer side or surface of something
inside, interior - the inner or enclosed surface of something
Mind explaining how a porch is "inside" of a house?Definition of a porch said:1. A covered platform, usually having a separate roof, at an entrance to a building.
2. An open or enclosed gallery or room attached to the outside of a building; a verandah.
3. Obsolete A portico or covered walk.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-53.htmThe State ofMassachusetts said:CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER
Chapter 272: Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses
Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
1. Check. He was drawing a crowd. And you know how crowds can get when they see a white policeman hauling of a black man.blogs.masslawyersweekly.com said:In order to secure a disorderly conduct conviction, the prosecution would have to show three things:
1. That Gates engaged in fighting, threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior or created a hazardous condition by an act that served no legitimate purpose;
2. That Gates’ actions were reasonably likely to affect the public; and
3. That the defendant either intended to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, alarm or recklessly created a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.
2. Check. He was loudly, publicly accusing a police officer of racism and racial profiling.
3. Throwing a huge fit, cursing out a cop and pulling the race card? Check. Drawing a large crowd? Check. Engaging in behavior that appeared to be a robbery, and diverted emergency resources? Check.
http://blogs.masslawyersweekly.com/news ... es-arrest/
I think that this guy from Off The Wall put it best.
pigeon768 said:Nobody's questioning his right to be angry. I'd be angry too. But I wouldn't stand on my front porch, yelling loud enough to draw a crowd, and insulting the guy who responded to a 911 call with the intent of protecting my property.
So yeah, it's his fault. Cop shows up and asks for ID, you show him your ID, give him the stink eye, and tell him to leave once he established that you're not robbing your own home. If you start hollering and create a scene, you get arrested for disorderly conduct. Seems simple enough to me.
The ruling that you posted involved no one but the cops and a guy making a lot of noise, with no public audience. Gates made enough noise to draw a crowd.
Thanks, but I RTFA. Please try again.
#106
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
A porch is still on the property, and remains distinct from public space. That he is physically "outside" is not by itself enough to be considered public.
Also, you apparently still haven't read the police report, which appears to indicate two things:
-the "crowd" was already outside before Gatea stepped onto his porch, so you're just guessing when you say his shouting drew a crowd
-the language in the report does not give any indication that Gate's was deliberately attempting to incite the crowd
So your "checks" seem to be complete conjecture, which, as your own link points out, the prosecution would need to prove, something which they apparently were not comfortable doing, for whatever reason.
Also, you apparently still haven't read the police report, which appears to indicate two things:
-the "crowd" was already outside before Gatea stepped onto his porch, so you're just guessing when you say his shouting drew a crowd
-the language in the report does not give any indication that Gate's was deliberately attempting to incite the crowd
So your "checks" seem to be complete conjecture, which, as your own link points out, the prosecution would need to prove, something which they apparently were not comfortable doing, for whatever reason.
#107
Cuyval Dar
Cuyval Dar
Would you want to be the DA trying to get re-elected while under the spectre of a case involving "the most influential black scholar" calling a white cop racist?
And that was before Obama came in on the side of his old teacher. Unfortunately, if you are rich/famous/influential, you can have any criminal charges dropped or reduced in this country.
And that was before Obama came in on the side of his old teacher. Unfortunately, if you are rich/famous/influential, you can have any criminal charges dropped or reduced in this country.
#108
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
I certainly wouldn't want to be the DA prosecuting a case where a police officer decided to arrest a man for no reason beside him being rude in his own house.
I especially wouldn't want to be the DA trying to prove that same man was trying to incite his witnessing and not reacting neighbors to violence through some mysterious means besides asking them to, and that the only way for the officer to prevent the impending race riot was to arrest said man anyway instead of simply leaving that property and driving away.
I especially wouldn't want to be the DA trying to prove that same man was trying to incite his witnessing and not reacting neighbors to violence through some mysterious means besides asking them to, and that the only way for the officer to prevent the impending race riot was to arrest said man anyway instead of simply leaving that property and driving away.