Chris Brown vs John Lennon

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Necronic

Necronic

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There are a lot of arguments out there that you shouldn't buy Chris Browns music because he hit women, and he's a piece of shit for it. Fair argument, but by that standard, why not John Lennon? He admitted to hitting women, repeatedly. Why give him a pass?

Is it racism?

Is it because John Lennon is a better artist?

Is it because we are intellectually lazy and have a short memory?

Are any of those good reasons?
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Or that as one of the older guys here, I was 11 when Lennon died... That is not short memory, it was a long time ago when it was basically accepted. I've never seen a picture of Yoko or Cynthia all black and blue.
 
phil

phil

I didn't know John Lennon hit women until yesterday when I first saw this argument. I remember the Chris Brown incident from when it first happened. If calleja were still around I'd be interested to hear his opinion, as both a Beatles worshiper and poster child for reddit.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Ha, yeah I learned this on reddit as well. It was pretty shocking. And frankly I feel a little betrayed that I didn't hear it earlier.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

I actually had no idea about the John Lennon hitting women thing until I read this thread.

I think the Chris Brown situation is a little more toxic since it's... still ongoing and he's actually still in a relationship with someone whom he beat pretty savagely.
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I actually had no idea about the John Lennon hitting women thing until I read this thread.

I think the Chris Brown situation is a little more toxic since it's... still ongoing and he's actually still in a relationship with someone whom he beat pretty savagely.
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I guess that's true, but only because it's fresh. If Lennon was still around, would we feel the same?
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I really hate hand-waving away bad shit since it was done long ago, but it was slightly a different era
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This is called cognitive dissonance. I mean, I have the same dissonance, because it's hard to change one's opinion on someone like Lennon when you learn of these things so late, but I do recognize it's there.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Honestly, what Chris Brown does has no effect on whether or not I like his music. I don't like his music because his music is shitty.

I like Snoop Dogg and Eminem's music, who both have pretty much admitted to spousal abuse, but that's because they are actually talented.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Honestly, what Chris Brown does has no effect on whether or not I like his music. I don't like his music because his music is shitty.

I like Snoop Dogg and Eminem's music, who both have pretty much admitted to spousal abuse, but that's because they are actually talented.
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Yeah, learning to seperate a person's personal life from their professional has been something I've done (I still enjoy Tom Cruise movies) however, there's also the problem that continuing to purchase their products is almost in a way supporting their actions. There's nothing there for them to feel like they did anything wrong if the money keeps pouring in.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Seriously, as someone who worked in a bar for many years, I'd rather deal with a group of high people than a group of drunk people anyday.

A high man won't even be able to get mad at you. A drunk man will threaten to beat you up for imagined slights.
 
Tress

Tress

I did not know about this. But I try to separate the personal life from the work. There are too many examples to count throughout history of artists producing amazing works while being horrible, shitty people.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
I mean...I get the separatin the Art from the artist, but how does that Have anythig to do with our attitudes towards Chris Brown or John Lennon? Chris Brown isn't vilified because of his music, it's because he hits women. So why don't we vilify others? Is it just because Chris Browns music also sucks? Because if so that's not separating the art and the artist.
 
Tress

Tress

I can only speak for me.

I don't hate Chris Brown's music because he's an asshole. I hate it because it's crap. I also hate him as a person, because he's such an asshole.

I enjoy Lennon's music, despite the fact that he's (apparently) an asshole. But now that I know he is an asshole, my personal opinion of him has dropped dramatically.

I feel like that's pretty consistent for me. Other people don't always seem to make the same choices.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

sixpackshaker said:
This is the reason that he is vilified.
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Her music took a shift for the worse after the incident as well.

Tress - That's another major thing about it isn't it? He isn't apologetic in the least. He did some fake apologies right after the backlash but if you've seen any of his tweets in the last year? Yeah he's 100% fine with what he did.
 
Necronic

Necronic

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I guess we'll never know about how Lennon would have responded when confronted. But the character I am discovering is a pretty awful one. Physical abuse of multiple women. Emotional abuse of a child. The only hint at what it would have been like if it was public during his life is this quote from his lawyer about his attitude towards the media:

The real Lennon was not the public statements that he made. They were made because they were public statements, and he was looking to make a point. He couldn't give a shit (about lying) because to a certain extent he had contempt for the media because they bought all the crap. He was there to manipulate the media. He enjoyed doing that. He understood how to use the media. You got to give him credit for that, and you got to give her credit... They would use the media, but it was not that they believed it, but that was the image they wanted to present
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In all honesty this bothers me more than Chris Brown. Chris Brown is blatantly a bastard. He doesn't espouse peace or love. Lennon, beyond being abusive, was also a lie. A lie he perpetuated for his own spiritual and monetary benefit.

(some other stuff worth reading, I know it's NY Post but it's mainly quotes from Ono in a recent biography. Pretty fucked up stuff.)


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...1lN;jsessionid=617AEAF86426A7B3B534E9798B2224

ed: Better source

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/05/music
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
Jeez.

Not to make light of what either of them did, but everyone has secrets. Not everyone gets caught. I wonder about the people I admire. Sometimes people's dirty laundry doesn't get aired out until after they die. Musicians, writers, artists of any kind... they tend to be a bit nuts. I'm not excusing them, but learning about the private lives of creative people can teach you to love what they create without looking to them as a role model.

I know that doesn't exactly answer the OP question... just thoughts. I suppose I also suffer from the "what can one person do" mentality. If I stop supporting someone famous who does things I don't like, will it deter them in any way? It's not the best attitude... but will it?
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Its a fair point. If my life (or google history) was held to an even remotely close scrutiny I would be villified (apparently Smurf Guro isn't "socially acceptable".)
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Yeah, Lennon was in a different era, but I'm pretty sure there were a lot of men back then who did not beat women and in that aspect, they were better than him.

Chris Brown is proud of what he did.

One was an asshole. The other is an asshole.
 
Zappit

Zappit

Staff member
Never knew that about Lennon. Did he admit it because he was repentant? Did he do it after admitting it? If he outed himself on that because he was sorry for those actions, yes, he should get more leeway than Brown.

Chris Brown seemed to apologize because he got caught. Since he mashed Rihanna's face into a purple bubble, he's trashed a Today Show green room, and reportedly sucker-punched Frank Ocean over a parking space. Doesn't strike me as somebody who's learned a lesson.
 
Squidleybits

Squidleybits

Chris Brown is a shitty person all around. What he did to Rihanna is unacceptable and it really concerns me that so many Hollywood types seem to have forgotten what he's done. It's also alarming to me that he keeps having violent outbursts and incidents with no real consequences. He's only "sorry" when he has something to promote or sell and even then its not real remorse, its anger than anyone ever dared to hold him responsible for his actions. It bothers me that they're back together.

And the other part that I really have a problem with? I have young cousins that absolutely idolize him and THAT is scary. How can young girls be okay with this?
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Squidleybits said:
And the other part that I really have a problem with? I have young cousins that absolutely idolize him and THAT is scary. How can young girls be okay with this?
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Have you seen the thousands of tweets from teenage girls saying -Chris Brown can beat me all he wants.- -I wish Chris Brown would beat me- etc
 
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