[Movies] Captain America: Civil War (spoilers!)

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Except as Falcon pointed out, they're really just shifting the blame to their oversight committee. They'd essentially be treated like a weapon, the way Tony was treating Scarlet Witch, the way Ross referenced Thor and Hulk. That's not really taking responsibility, that's being able to ignore it because you were just following orders.

Really I think T'Challa says everything that needs to be said. Two people in a room can get more done than 100. How long would it have taken the U.N. to decide to send the Avengers to Sokovia, and what restrictions would they have had? I have a feeling it would've resembled the shadowy council from the first Avengers movie, where they wanted to nuke New York City to make the problem go away. They would've had the Avengers just destroy it all, because by the time they decided to send them in, it would've been too late to follow Cap's intent of evacuating civilians.

Obviously the counter-argument is the damage and death caused by letting that situation drag out. There's no perfect right answer.
 
Sparhawk

Sparhawk

GasBandit said:
Although, can someone explain the "orange slices" thing when Scott Lang un-giants?
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He mentions that he got a huge headache when he experimented with it in the lab, vitamin C is a natural analgesic and possibly a reference to being "out of the game" on the fight.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Jax said:
I don't think sport analogies are the right kind here.. If a soldier in a battlefield loses control and kills civilians, do you drag him to court-martial or his CO (or even the general/government that issued the mission) that sent him there?
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If a solider "loses control", the soldier. If his "smart bombs" blow up a hospital because he was aimed that way, his CO. "Collateral damage" is sadly a big thing in real life, and some governments care less than others.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
klew said:
I figured it was a reference to orange slices being served at halftime at kid soccer games.
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Huh. I didn't know that was a thing. TIL.[DOUBLEPOST=1462719246,1462719180][/DOUBLEPOST]
Sparhawk said:
He mentions that he got a huge headache when he experimented with it in the lab, vitamin C is a natural analgesic and possibly a reference to being "out of the game" on the fight.
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But if it was a headache joke, wouldn't it have been more obvious/accessible if he'd said something like "Anybody got any ibuprofen?"
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
GasBandit said:
Although, can someone explain the "orange slices" thing when Scott Lang un-giants?
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Before he goes big he talks about how he's only done it once in a lab and afterwards he passed out. Orange slices help replace electrolytes (it's what the body craves!) and staves off passing out.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
Before he goes big he talks about how he's only done it once in a lab and afterwards he passed out. Orange slices help replace electrolytes (it's what the body craves!) and staves off passing out.
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Alrighty then. You'd think this wouldn't have been news to me, what with doctors for parents, but this was the first time I've ever heard of the orange slices thing.
 
klew

klew

Plus, I know they wanted the teams to start out even (6v6?), even though Vision is already OP, but if Spider-Man had time to think about both sides, he might agree more with Captain America's stance on personal responsibility, what with his realization about great power after walking away when someone needed help.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Finally saw it. While it didn't do great on opening day it blew everything away internationally for the first weekend. Unless we see a huge drop off next week it's primed to take the top spot for the year so far.

I think all the great points about the movie have already been said, but I wanted to say something a little against the grain from what I have seen around the net. Zemo was a great villain.

Okay, maybe that isn't entirely accurate, since Zemo was not really a "villain" in the general sense. Not on the same level as Ronan or Ultron or even Peirce.

Zemo's entire arc was hinted at very early when Tony Stark is confronted by that woman in the hallways about her dead son, and how she blamed him for it. Zemo was not, in the end, a rich billionaire scratching some itch to watch powerful people fight, or a man hellbent on world domination looking to utilize super-soldiers, or all the other contrived, generic things he could have easily been. No, he was a regular man, with some military background, that lost everything he loved in Sokovia during the events of AoU, driven by vengeance, and had the patience to work towards a seemingly impossible goal, to tear down the Avengers from within. He had no henchman, having to rely on trickery to get the code book, used a regular carrier service to deliver an EMP, and took a regular old flight to Russia.

I love that the Winter Soldiers that Cap and Bucky thought he was going to unleash were a total red herring, and that all he wanted in the end was the video of Bucky killing Tony's parents. He was just looking for the hail merry that he knew would destroy the unity of the Avengers, and he played a long game to get it.

He was the every man, and a representative of all the people that have suffered in the shadows from the Avengers, and provided that perspective in a very satisfying way for me. The third, powerless side to all this crazy meta-human insanity. Even for the little time he was in the movie, he is now up there with Loki and Peirce as my favorite Marvel "villains".
 
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ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

HCGLNS said:
Can we talk about how awesome the kiss scene was, because it was pretty awesome.
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Dude, Steve is smooching his old love interests niece. That's pretty weird.

Speaking of Peggy, watching her funeral, and later watching Howard Stark get punched to death in the face, is going to make the next season of Agent Carter really, REALLY bittersweet.

P.S. It's a bit weird watching Agents of Shield, with all Hydras obsession making Super Soldiers, and then find out they have five perfectly viable ones frozen in Russia. I guess they just forgot about them? I know the flashback showed they were hard to control, so I guess they were just scrapped and left for a later phase that never came.
 
Dei

Dei

Yeah, non pliable super soldiers are not very useful.

I agree the actual kiss felt so squicky to me, but Falcon and Bucky in the car was awesome.
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

Y'know, the feeling I got was that Steve kissed Sharon as a way of thanking her, because he can tell she's got the hots for him. He may not really like her in a romantic sense, but he's willing to let her briefly indulge in the fantasy because of all she's done for him.

But of course, to Sam and Bucky, they're all like, "Aww yeah, that's my boy!"
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ScytheRexx said:
Finally saw it. While it didn't do great on opening day it blew everything away internationally for the first weekend. Unless we see a huge drop off next week it's primed to take the top spot for the year so far.

I think all the great points about the movie have already been said, but I wanted to say something a little against the grain from what I have seen around the net. Zemo was a great villain.

Okay, maybe that isn't entirely accurate, since Zemo was not really a "villain" in the general sense. Not on the same level as Ronan or Ultron or even Peirce.

Zemo's entire arc was hinted at very early when Tony Stark is confronted by that woman in the hallways about her dead son, and how she blamed him for it. Zemo was not, in the end, a rich billionaire scratching some itch to watch powerful people fight, or a man hellbent on world domination looking to utilize super-soldiers, or all the other contrived, generic things he could have easily been. No, he was a regular man, with some military background, that lost everything he loved in Sokovia during the events of AoU, driven by vengeance, and had the patience to work towards a seemingly impossible goal, to tear down the Avengers from within. He had no henchman, having to rely on trickery to get the code book, used a regular carrier service to deliver an EMP, and took a regular old flight to Russia.

I love that the Winter Soldiers that Cap and Bucky thought he was going to unleash were a total red herring, and that all he wanted in the end was the video of Bucky killing Tony's parents. He was just looking for the hail merry that he knew would destroy the unity of the Avengers, and he played a long game to get it.

He was the every man, and a representative of all the people that have suffered in the shadows from the Avengers, and provided that perspective in a very satisfying way for me. The third, powerless side to all this crazy meta-human insanity. Even for the little time he was in the movie, he is now up there with Loki and Peirce as my favorite Marvel "villains".
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Yes, all of this. Zemo in this movie felt like a character much in line with the tone of Captain America: The Winter Soldier. I totally bought the red herring and cannot express how pleasantly surprised I was about how everything turned out. What a masterful plan he put together, using very simple means to achieve grandiose results. I'm hoping the internet video reviewers blasting this for not having a big monster villain at the end are the minority. If not, I hope people come around, because the Russo brothers really deserve praise for how they handled the finale. This was much more intelligent and emotionally charged than having Thanos show up all of a sudden as Half in the Bag suggested.

There's a simple storytelling beauty in having it be just this ordinary man. No suit, no tools, no powers. And he's not the mustache-twirling emotionless dickshit like Ronan either. He shows remorse to T'Challa, fully expecting to get killed at that moment, and then willing to do it himself when T'Challa won't. He didn't even wait to watch his work play out; this was all he'd set out to do and he let it go, become the chaos he wanted. I love the line that I'm going to mangle "I can't beat them. Stronger men than me have tried."
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Zemo got me as I expected a full on Hydra connection and in the end it was just a common surname.

Tricksies Marvels!
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Zero Esc said:
There's a simple storytelling beauty in having it be just this ordinary man. No suit, no tools, no powers. And he's not the mustache-twirling emotionless dickshit like Ronan either. He shows remorse to T'Challa, fully expecting to get killed at that moment, and then willing to do it himself when T'Challa won't. He didn't even wait to watch his work play out; this was all he'd set out to do and he let it go, become the chaos he wanted. I love the line that I'm going to mangle "I can't beat them. Stronger men than me have tried."
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Honestly when he was sitting on the mountain, and they were playing that same dialog of his wife talking to him on the phone about the smile on his sons face, and how she was tired and going to sleep, my brain went "Oh no... no no no no. Oh god it's a message. They are dead." and then T'Challa shows up, and Zemo talks about what happened to his family, how they felt safe and then were crushed under the debris from the falling landmass, I felt for him. This is a man that in the end killed countless people through his schemes, including a innocent psychiatrist and the King of Wakanda, but I felt for him because I couldn't even grasp what I would do if I was pulling the dead bodies of those I love from a pile of rubble created by things that I am not strong enough to stop. When they showed him pull up the phone and that he finally deleted the message, I think a tear went down my cheek.

"I pulled the corpses of my family from the rubble, and the Avengers... they just flew home."

In the end he knew what he did was wrong, he was prepared to die in payment for it, but he was mournful and angry, and he was going to put the Avengers through the same pain as him before he paid that debt.

P.S. Also, watching this man who was suffering, and what his vengeance lead him to do, was what ultimately showed T'Challa that he can't let his own desire for vengeance send him down a similar path. He set out to murder Bucky for the death of his father, and in the end when confronted with the real killer, he absolved to save his fathers killer and take him to justice instead. Great moment for T'Challa that really let him grow (which is amazing considering he was a side character in the whole movie.)
 
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Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ScytheRexx said:
P.S. Also, watching this man who was suffering, and what his vengeance lead him to do, was what ultimately showed T'Challa that he can't let his own desire for vengeance send him down a similar path. He set out to murder Bucky for the death of his father, and in the end when confronted with the real killer, he absolved to save his fathers killer and take him to justice instead. Great moment for T'Challa that really let him grow (which is amazing considering he was a side character in the whole movie.)
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That whole scene was fantastic. Really wish we were getting the Black Panther movie earlier than we are, but I understand Marvel bumped Spidey up so they could make his movie rather than let Sony grow impatient and fuck around again.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Saw it yesterday afternoon. Some bullet thoughts:

-I am absolutely ready for Black Panther and Spider-Man's solo movies. They were unquestionably the best parts of this movie.

-I want a Falcon/Winter Soldier Lethal Weapon-like buddy movie.

-Much as I loved every minute of Spidey, it still felt like a giant "Go see his solo movie!" advertisement. Like, as enjoyable as the whole Tony-in-his-apartment stuff was, I thought it brought the pacing to a screeching halt.

-Similarly, as awesome as the clusterfuck action scene was, it honestly felt out of place with the rest of the movie's mostly espionage style storytelling. Like, most of the movie was a thematic continuation of Captain America: Winter Soldier, and then suddenly, it's "AND NOW AVENGERS CLUSTERFUCK TIME!" I had a similar issue with Falcon's scene in Ant-Man because it felt tacked on. Here, it didn't necessarily feel tacked on. Just that it didn't really fall in line with the rest of the movie's pacing.

-LOVED Zemo's twist at the end and showing the footage that opened the movie. When the tape showed "1991," my jaw dropped and I knew what the last part of the movie would be.

-I don't know why, but Vision wearing normal clothes for most of the movie cracked me up.

-Zemo accomplished what Loki failed to do: destroy the Avengers by pinning them against each other.

-The shaky cam was REALLY bad in this movie. In Winter Soldier, the action was mostly pretty clear from what I remember. Here, every fight scene and car chase had horrendous shaky cam. I'm ready for that style of filmmaking to die in a fire.

Criticisms aside, I still loved the hell out of this and am considering seeing it again before it leaves theatres (likely with my sister and my nieces). Not sure where I'd place it on my list of the 13 Marvel movies to date, but it'd be relatively near the top, I think. Top 5, maybe.
 
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Frank

Frank

I got lots to say, but this is the main thing I will, the casting of Marisa Tomei as Aunt May is super awkward. A buddy said to me over text that no one should want to bone Aunt May. I think I agree.
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Frank said:
I got lots to say, but this is the main thing I will, the casting of Marisa Tomei as Aunt May is super awkward. A buddy said to me over text that no one should want to bone Aunt May. I think I agree.
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By keeping her a helpless, frail old biddy we got One More Day.:p
 
Frank

Frank

I'm so glad Giant Man wasn't spoiled in the trailers. That was a legit fun super hero movie moment. It was the best Avengers movie by a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG shot.
 
Sparhawk

Sparhawk

Frank said:
I'm so glad Giant Man wasn't spoiled in the trailers. That was a legit fun super hero movie moment. It was the best Avengers movie by a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG shot.
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I had Giant Man spoiled to me by a Pop! figure in Target, the back of the Crossbones had a picture of the Giant Man figure.[DOUBLEPOST=1462849301,1462849196][/DOUBLEPOST]
Frank said:
I got lots to say, but this is the main thing I will, the casting of Marisa Tomei as Aunt May is super awkward. A buddy said to me over text that no one should want to bone Aunt May. I think I agree.
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Tomei is 51, exactly in the range of having a nephew in high school. She looks younger than the "traditional" May, but chronologically right on target.
 
strawman

strawman

I think the aunt may thing will dismay a lot of people because they expect gray hair, and because the target audience is now within her dating age.

Ask any 20 year olds and they'll think her a little to old to date. Any attraction is really just a reflection of your own age...
 
Frank

Frank

stienman said:
I think the aunt may thing will dismay a lot of people because they expect gray hair, and because the target audience is now within her dating age.

Ask any 20 year olds and they'll think her a little to old to date. Any attraction is really just a reflection of your own age...
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Having a multi-decade crush on Marisa Tomei doesn't help any.

Though the biggest crush I had in that movie was on Chris Evans' workout regimen. That helicopter sequence....lordy!
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
Frank said:
Having a multi-decade crush on Marisa Tomei doesn't help any.

Though the biggest crush I had in that movie was on Chris Evans' workout regimen. That helicopter sequence....lordy!
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I straight up blushed during that scene.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Aunt May being in her 50s makes sense. Any older and she's getting into being more believably Peter's great aunt instead.

ThatNickGuy said:
Not sure where I'd place it on my list of the 13 Marvel movies to date, but it'd be relatively near the top, I think. Top 5, maybe.
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Definitely in my top 5. So for me that's the three Cap movies, Avengers 1, and Guardians of the Galaxy.
 
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