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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162-57482557/pa-church-pastor-charged-in-fake-kidnapping/

Well now, I've seen it all.

Silent Bob said:

Well now, I've seen it all.

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When you say stuff like that, the universe sees it as a challenge, you know.

I ...wish I could say that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard about a church youth group.

They're lucky nobody in the group was dumb enough to try to be a hero.

An error in judgement, to be sure. But excusable, if it doesn't happen again.

Hostage training for missionaries is one thing, but some to those kids were not involved with the church.

Also, let the professionals teach your missionaries how to survive those situations.

If you grab me, throw a bag over my head, and drive me away in a van while "interrogating" me all against my will and with no forewarning, that's not a mock kidnapping. That's kidnapping.

TommiR said:

An error in judgement, to be sure. But excusable, if it doesn't happen again.

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I really would love to be in some of these planning sessions. How the heck does that sound like a smart idea?

I like that a firearm was brandished about to add to the authenticity. Stay classy folks!

*facepalm*

Covar said:

I really would love to be in some of these planning sessions. How the heck does that sound like a smart idea?

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The lead guy didn't think it through, and nobody told him it was a bad idea. But on the whole, shit happens. Mistakes are occasionally made, and if you're unwilling to tolerate them, and seek to assign blame for everything that goes wrong, then pretty soon nothing gets done when people are more concerned about covering their own asses against failure than they are of doing what they are supposed to do.

It's like the psych professor that has a guy come in and assault them, then run out so the teacher can talk to the class about how bad eye witnesses are. It's shocking and trying to prove a point, but probably a bad, bad, bad idea.

Inexcusable.

Someone better get fired over this. At least a few people. This is the kind of dumb ass stuff I saw all the time when I was younger. These people are idiots.

Espy said:

Someone better get fired over this. At least a few people. This is the kind of dumb ass stuff I saw all the time when I was younger. These people are idiots.

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That's the way things are nowadays, isn't it. If something goes wrong, fire people. Everyone knows there is a plethora of replacements out there, so why tolerate people who can't get everything right 100% of the time. Or at least fire the ones who own up to it instead of trying to make it look like it was someone else's fault, as those obviously lack common sense. Right?

Dude, this isn't someone "making a mistake". This is someone committing a felony and saying "oh it was just pretend".

Like I said. Inexcusable.

TommiR said:

as those obviously lack common sense. Right?

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Yes. Glad we're in agreement.

If you exhibit gross incompetence to the point that you're committing a federal crime (which kidnapping is) then you should feel lucky if all you lose is your job.

Ravenpoe said:

Yes. Glad we're in agreement.

If you exhibit gross incompetence to the point that you're committing a federal crime (which kidnapping is) then you should feel lucky if all you lose is your job.

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Thisthisthis.

Necronic said:

Dude, this isn't someone "making a mistake". This is someone committing a felony and saying "oh it was just pretend".

Like I said. Inexcusable.

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Oh and this.

Gared said:

Dude... there is a huge, HUGE, difference between nothing getting done because people are more concerned about covering their asses and committing a federal felony kidnapping at gunpoint and then claiming it was all a stunt. You know... you actually seemed pretty level-headed in that whole discussion over eliminating minimum wage, albeit a little tunnel-visioned; but this is just pants-on-head retarded. This was a church youth-pastor. Are you really concerned that the Word of God won't get spread around anymore because people are too busy covering their asses to bother committed federal felony kidnappings?

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Alright, apparently I've crossed a line here. Ceasing and desisting.

I think once your actions delve into felony territory you have crossed most lines of common sense and deserve to be fired. I don't think the guy should go to jail (although I don't know all the particulars, if there really was a real gun/loaded gun then... maybe he should) over a really stupid mistake but just because it was a mistake doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences. Severe consequences.

If they wanted to teach religious persecution, they should have given all the kids spray tans, keffiyahs/hajibs, and let them loose in the Pennsyltucky countryside

TommiR said:

That's the way things are nowadays, isn't it. If something goes wrong, fire people. Everyone knows there is a plethora of replacements out there, so why tolerate people who can't get everything right 100% of the time. Or at least fire the ones who own up to it instead of trying to make it look like it was someone else's fault, as those obviously lack common sense. Right?

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They made a girl think she was going to get raped...


As far as teaching the lesson goes. You don't need to shock the class to get the point.

He could have had a demonstration in the class with volunteers to simulate what some people go through when persecuted for religious beliefs. That would have gotten the message through just fine. The only message that came across with this stunt was: when you're kidnapped and threatened with rape, it's scary.

TommiR said:

The lead guy didn't think it through, and nobody told him it was a bad idea. But on the whole, shit happens. Mistakes are occasionally made, and if you're unwilling to tolerate them, and seek to assign blame for everything that goes wrong, then pretty soon nothing gets done when people are more concerned about covering their own asses against failure than they are of doing what they are supposed to do.

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If the parents had signed off on this, if the kids had known they were going to encounter a "religious persecution simulation", if the simulation had ended with the trip across the parking lot (I.E, milk & cookies in the pastor's living room instead of interrogations), any number of "ifs" could move this from the "blatantly criminal" category into "well that was a bit much, don't do it again" category. None of that happened. I could not find the false imprisonment statutes for Pennsylvania, but I could kind the kidnapping statute, thought it might be a touch out of date, and I've highlighted the pertinent sections:

§ 2901. Kidnapping.
(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of kidnapping if he unlawfully removes another a substantial distance under the circumstances from the place where he is found, or if he unlawfully confines another for a substantial period in a place of isolation, with any of the following intentions:
(1) To hold for ransom or reward, or as a shield or
hostage.
(2) To facilitate commission of any felony or flight
thereafter.
(3) To inflict bodily injury on or to terrorize the victim or another.
(4) To interfere with the performance by public
officials of any governmental or political function.
(b) Grading.--Kidnapping is a felony of the first degree. A removal or confinement is unlawful within the meaning of this section if it is accomplished by force, threat or deception, or,
in the case of a person who is under the age of 14 years or an
incapacitated person, if it is accomplished without the consent
of a parent, guardian or other person responsible for general
supervision of his welfare.
(Apr. 16, 1992, P.L.108, No.24, eff. 60 days)

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Literally the only part of this case that is even iffy on qualifying is the "substantial distance under the circumstances" bit. And, while their actual destination was just across the parking lot, I'd argue that "in a van with a bag over your head while held at apparent gun point" renders almost any distance pretty substantial, especially if they made the kids think it was further.

You're right that some things just qualify as excusable fuck-ups. Accidentally committing a premeditated felony is not one of them.

The really important thing to me is that a believable threat of violence can seriously traumatic. Thinking you are going to be murdered or raped can leave you with serious psychological scars. To not have thought of that is mind bogling.