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Why Apple products are made in China

Jan 25, 2012#1

GasBandit

An interesting article on the NY Times this week. Very long but worth reading.

TLDR version: Because Chinese manufacturing isn’t merely cheaper, but also perhaps even more importantly, nimbler, more flexible, and faster.

Jan 25, 2012#2

strawman

One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”

Yeah, that wouldn't happen in the US. And if we used robots it would take a week - minimum - for a technician to reprogram it for a new part or assembly technique.

Jan 25, 2012#3

strawman

“The entire supply chain is in China now,” said another former high-ranking Apple executive. “You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That’s the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours.”

A few years after Mr. Saragoza started his job, his bosses explained how the California plant stacked up against overseas factories: the cost, excluding the materials, of building a $1,500 computer in Elk Grove was $22 a machine. In Singapore, it was $6. In Taiwan, $4.85. Wages weren’t the major reason for the disparities. Rather it was costs like inventory and how long it took workers to finish a task.

“We were told we would have to do 12-hour days, and come in on Saturdays,” Mr. Saragoza said. “I had a family. I wanted to see my kids play soccer.”

Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.

Interesting.

Jan 26, 2012#4

GasBandit

I remember watching "Gung Ho" and when that one guy yelled at michael keaton "I haven't seen my kids in a week!" I wanted to stick my head in the tv and remind him he was competing with workers who didn't "see their kids" hardly at all, ever... and their system was the only thing that put their company in a position to buy his floundering company and keep his pasty butt employed.

When it comes to manufacturing the west just can't compete.

Jan 26, 2012#5

Tress

You heard it here first, folks: GasBandit thinks China is the ideal that the US should strive towards.

Jan 26, 2012#6

GasBandit

Tress said:
You heard it here first, folks: GasBandit thinks China is the ideal that the US should strive towards.

Hey, I'm all about grinding little people down into the insect drones they were meant to be. You always knew that, though, didn't you?

Jan 26, 2012#7

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
TLDR version: Because Chinese manufacturing isn’t merely cheaper, but also perhaps even more importantly, nimbler, more flexible, and faster.

Now those are some interesting words to use...

But that's still working more for less pay...

Jan 26, 2012#8

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Now those are some interesting words to use...

But that's still working more for less pay...

There's a great deal that foxconn city can do that you couldn't do in America as quickly at any price.

Jan 26, 2012#9

Mathias

stienman said:
Yeah, that wouldn't happen in the US. And if we used robots it would take a week - minimum - for a technician to reprogram it for a new part or assembly technique.

China is using robots....

Human ones...

Jan 27, 2012#10

@Li3n

Something to ponder about when it comes to a working economy not reliant on slave labour: https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/01/26-3

GasBandit said:
There's a great deal that foxconn city can do that you couldn't do in America as quickly at any price.

Only if you're sticking to the laws in place... and as that article shows, the plant itself denied it's that flexible because it's illegal in China too... well that and American not having enough people who would let themselves be used like that...

Jan 27, 2012#11

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
well that and American not having enough people who would let themselves be used like that...

So we are agreed, the will of the American people must be crushed for America to become great again! Let's get to work!

Jan 27, 2012#12

SeraRelm

I thought it was...

Jan 27, 2012#13

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
So we are agreed, the will of the American people must be crushed for America to become great again! Let's get to work!

Newt?

Jan 27, 2012#14

doomdragon6

I've actually had to design and navigate from China some custom items for our convention. The manufacturers we worked with really did reference all these other manufacturers that were "down the street" and worked with each other. We were able to get our stuff for 33 cents each, when anywhere else it would be well over a dollar. (Huge difference when talking in thousands of a product.)

China's ridiculous, in other words.

Jan 27, 2012#15

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
So we are agreed, the will of the American people must be crushed for America to become great again! Let's get to work!

Or you could do it the old fashion American way and exploit immigrants (or import your own slave labour again)...

Jan 27, 2012#16

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Or you could do it the old fashion American way and exploit immigrants (or import your own slave labour again)...

Europe would have abused immigrants more if it could have, but they were all going to America. HEYOOOO.

Jan 27, 2012#17

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Europe would have abused immigrants more if it could have, but they were all going to America. HEYOOOO.

Yes, coz Europe at the time was totally into allowing immigration...

Jan 27, 2012#18

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Yes, coz Europe at the time was totally into allowing immigration...

Sour grapes on an international scale.

Jan 27, 2012#19

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Sour grapes on an international scale.

Yeah, just ask the jews how much Europe loved immigrants...

Jan 27, 2012#20

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Yeah, just ask the jews how much Europe loved immigrants...

Did that have to do with them being immigrants, or being jews?

Jan 27, 2012#21

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Did that have to do with them being immigrants, or being jews?

Yeah, it was totally the baby eating... also why we had no problem with arabs, gypsies, people of other denominations, anyone not aryan (including south europeans) and more or less anyone not of our ethnic background...

Jan 27, 2012#22

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Yeah, it was totally the baby eating... also why we had no problem with arabs, gypsies, people of other denominations, anyone not aryan (including south europeans) and more or less anyone not of our ethnic background...

Europe's tendency to kill eachother alot every few decades or so aside, people were leaving these nations in droves to come to the US. Despite what you seem to be implying (there you go implying instead of saying again), the US was not the only possible destination for immigrants who wanted to find a better life... it was just the most obvious. Because it was better.

Jan 27, 2012#23

Adammon

And then when they got to the US, they realized Canada was better, and all the cool people came up here - all 10 of them.

Jan 27, 2012#24

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Europe's tendency to kill eachother alot every few decades or so aside, people were leaving these nations in droves to come to the US. Despite what you seem to be implying (there you go implying instead of saying again), the US was not the only possible destination for immigrants who wanted to find a better life... it was just the most obvious. Because it was better.

Oh yeah, plenty also went to a penal colony... so what where the other choices again?

Jan 27, 2012#25

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Oh yeah, plenty also went to a penal colony... so what where the other choices again?

Australia stopped being a penal colony in 1868. If the only reason people went to America was because it was the only choice, shouldn't ours have seen a dramatic drop around then?

Jan 27, 2012#26

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Australia stopped being a penal colony in 1868. If the only reason people went to America was because it was the only choice, shouldn't ours have seen a dramatic drop around then?

Yes, it's like when you stop using a facility as a prison it becomes a luxury hotel the next day...

But the point is there where a lot more reason why people came to the US besides "coz we're awesome"... that's why plenty of people did go elsewhere...

Jan 27, 2012#27

DarkAudit

Awesome at... burying hundreds of immigrants under a mountain at once *cough*Monongah*cough*.

Jan 29, 2012#28

ElJuski

man, if making America "Great" again comes at the expense of the soul and humanity of it's denizens, fuck being great, I'd prefer being decent.

Jan 29, 2012#29

Covar

@Li3n said:
Yes, it's like when you stop using a facility as a prison it becomes a luxury hotel the next day...

But the point is there where a lot more reason why people came to the US besides "coz we're awesome"... that's why plenty of people did go elsewhere...

I don't know I consider allowing people into a country regardless of their ethnicity to be pretty damn great. But hey, feel free to keep thinking that being horribly intolerant and exclusionary was/is a good thing.

Jan 29, 2012#30

@Li3n

Covar said:
But hey, feel free to keep thinking that being horribly intolerant and exclusionary was/is a good thing.

Yes, that is totally what i said...

Jan 29, 2012#31

Tress

@Li3n said:
Yes, that is totally what i said...

Considering your piss-poor grammar, vague posts, passive-aggressive horseshit, and inane babbling, it's hard to tell exactly what you're saying anyway.

Jan 29, 2012#32

@Li3n

Tress said:
Considering your piss-poor grammar, vague posts, passive-aggressive horseshit, and inane babbling, it's hard to tell exactly what you're saying anyway.

And obviously the answer is to infer hating immigrants is something i admire... because i don't talk good... heh.

Jan 30, 2012#33

Necronic

GasBandit said:
When it comes to manufacturing the west just can't compete.

Oh wow this is so completely wrong.

First off the chinese model is completely unsustainable because of the massive environmental and human rights issues going on there right now. The wealthier they get the more serious and unignorable these issues become. They are already seeing their industrialization get targeted by regulations. They are going through their gilded age, but it won't last for the same reason ours didn't.

Second off the comparison to Japan is interesting because of the current state of their economy (lolwut we should have listened to our central bank and not let our currency get so expensive), but more importantly because of their proffesional culture. The salaryman cutlure there is absolutely fascinating, particularly how they interact with their superiors and foreign customers. To say they are liars isn't correct, but there is a complete acceptance there that what you say doesn't have to be what you mean. For instance if an american client comes in and says "Hey I need these technical specs on my desk tommorow" and the salaryman responds with "Yes of course" there's like a 20% chance you will ever see that work.

American proffesional culture is actually a massive strength that we have in any industry, including manufacturing. We don't care about offending people, we just want the work done. That's actually quite unique.

Jan 30, 2012#34

GasBandit

Necronic said:
Oh wow this is so completely wrong.

First off the chinese model is completely unsustainable because of the massive environmental and human rights issues going on there right now. The wealthier they get the more serious and unignorable these issues become. They are already seeing their industrialization get targeted by regulations. They are going through their gilded age, but it won't last for the same reason ours didn't.

I only meant from an "as things are right now" standpoint. Speculating too far into the future is pointless... nuclear war, economic collapse, or huge deposits of Unobtanium beneath montana could all change the whole game at any time.

Jan 30, 2012#35

Covar

GasBandit said:
Unobtanium

I still can't believe someone got paid money to come up with that name.

Jan 30, 2012#36

SeraRelm

Covar said:
I still can't believe someone got paid money to come up with that name.

You mean like Engineers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

Feb 1, 2012#37

DarkAudit

Posting without comment...

Feb 1, 2012#38

Mathias

DarkAudit said:
Posting without comment...

Suicides: horrible comparison. Not taking into the fact mental illness, type of job situation, other stresses associated with different jobs etc... It's comparing apples to oranges. I'd like to see how much that value drops if you compare foxconn to a similar American or Canadian company, or hell even South Korean. 18 suicides per million workers is a lot for one company. Real context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides That's some fucked up shit right there. The national suicide rate is always going to be higher over a company no matter how you work the numbers. It say per million workers in a clever attempt to make it seem like the comparison is level. It's not. The majority of a nations population is going to be a "worker". In the case of China, you're talking about the average suicide rate for about 1 billion people divided into per million unit the chart uses.

Fatal Injuries: Again a national average is taking into account accidents that occur across a broad spectrum of industries. Some are far more dangerous than others - even in America. A proper comparison would be against the average among the same industry. I bet Foxconn would still be horrible or just about the same.

Now where does that 6k figure come from? Is that the average salary or the salary of a worker they chose at random. Notice how the chart doesn't say.

Buy Apple indeed...
Fucking Fanboys need to learn how to do proper statistics.

Feb 1, 2012#39

sixpackshaker

It is hard to have fatal injuries in a plant where every thing is weighed by percents of a gram.

Oh noes! I dropped a 2 inch by 4 inch piece of wafer thin glass on my toe!!!

Feb 1, 2012#40

AshburnerX

sixpackshaker said:
It is hard to have fatal injuries in a plant where every thing is weighed by percents of a gram.

Oh noes! I dropped a 2 inch by 4 inch piece of wafer thin glass on my toe!!!

Except for that explosion they had a while back that killed 2 workers and injured 16 more. I believe it was because of some powdered aluminum they use for making the iPad 2.

Really, that's the biggest problem: Improper handling and storage of the minerals and chemicals they use to make stuff. They don't have OSHA over there to look out for the safety of the workers.

Feb 1, 2012#41

sixpackshaker

But it is OK, according to the graph they are just a statistic.

Feb 1, 2012#42

strawman

It's fine that it's just a statistic, because human life has a dollar amount anyway. According to one study (which, admittedly, may not directly apply but provides fascinating numbers anyway) the value of one human life in Taiwan is under $2million[USD] while the value is nearly $7million[USD] in the US.

But the US is below average. In the UK the value of one human life is $26million[USD]. Even Canada values human life more at $9million[USD]. You'd have to read through the study to understand why (largely it has to do with the money the state spends in improving and saving human lives - think education and healthcare).
Added at: 10:50
Here's a better study with different numbers:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/e-journals/jtep/pdf/Volume_34_Part_2_169-188.pdf

Feb 1, 2012#43

Tress

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Feb 2, 2012#44

bhamv3

stienman said:
It's fine that it's just a statistic, because human life has a dollar amount anyway. According to one study (which, admittedly, may not directly apply but provides fascinating numbers anyway) the value of one human life in Taiwan is under $2million[USD] while the value is nearly $7million[USD] in the US.

Feb 2, 2012#45

Terrik

bhamv3 said:

It's ok. You're worth at least 2.3, or 2.4 million in my opinion.

Mar 17, 2012#46

DarkAudit

You can't throw a rock at any tech or Apple blogs today without hitting the news that Mike Daisey just made shit up about Foxconn.

Mar 17, 2012#47

AshburnerX

Why would you even bother making up stuff about them? They already do a lot of horrible stuff that can be confirmed.

Mar 17, 2012#48

strawman

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/ieconomy/acclaimed-apple-critic-made-details

What makes this a little complicated is that the things Daisey lied about seeing are things that have actually happened in China: Workers making Apple products have been poisoned by Hexane. Apple’s own audits show (PDF) the company has caught underage workers at a handful of its suppliers. These things are rare, but together, they form an easy-to-understand narrative about Apple.

He's claimed his stuff is theater, which is the problem because this american life is theatrical journalism - still journalism, but presented in a story-telling and compelling manner. This guy's monologue was journalistic theater - theater, but presented in a journalistic way with none of the standards journalists are held to.

However, up until he was exposed, he always portrayed every anecdote and story as though it were true, to every news program he got on, so while he claims it was always theater now, he didn't previously.

His mission - to get people to change their behavior and habits to improve the lives of others - is a good one. His methods aren't, and once uncovered he does irreparable harm to his own message. He's not going to be taken seriously again, and this will cause people to discount the terrible-working-conditions message when they hear it again in the future.

So yeah, it's a big deal.

Mar 17, 2012#49

ElJuski

Listen to this week's This American Life, people! Audio is already up.

Mar 18, 2012#50

Necronic

Ouch man, that's pretty rough. TAL is a pretty respected source that does a very good job of making sure it's statements are more or less acurate (even if they do editorialize). They've been threatened with lawsuits for libel/etc on multiple occasions and have been able to stand their ground due to their inscrutability.

IRA says it well in the second line of the episode about the retraction:

"I'm coming to you today to say something that I've never had to say on our program."

Mar 20, 2012#51

DarkAudit

Mike Daisey hays he "will not remain silent."

Well, no one's listing to you anymore, douchebag.

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