[Question] Power tools

Gared

Gared

Ok, it's time for me to start acquiring a good selection of power tools. First on the list, a cordless drill. For the most part, this will just be used as either for drilling pilot holes for wall anchors in drywall, or as a bit driver for setting screws in said anchors; but I'd love something that can be used for wood (solid, ply, particle board, and MDF as necessary) as well. The last time I bought a cordless drill it was about as useful as tits on a mule. It never held enough charge to get full power and could only provide a few minutes of half- (or less) power. I'm hoping that the technology has come along a bit further in the past decade. Oh, and @Tinwhistler, I may also use this from time to time to aerate mead, if that factors in any.

I will also eventually need to add a router and circular saw and/or table saw to the mix. I don't (currently) do a lot of woodworking, but would like to get into it for hobby purposes now and for home building later so that I don't have to try to either buy a house that's perfect, or hire someone to make minor repairs.

Does Halforums have any recommended brands?
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

I can't recommend a cordless drill. Mine has a cord. It was cheaper, and everywhere I want to use it is near a power outlet.

This is what I use for aerating:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Workforce-5-Gallon-Helix-Paint-Mixer-HM5HD/202251543?N=5yc1vZc5bkZ1z0sv1q

That said, I read a recent study that shows a good sloshing is actually pretty dang good for aeration, so I don't bother with the fuss these days.

http://www.brewangels.com/Beerformation/AerationMethods.pdf
The most rapid method of oxygenating the water was achieved by the rocking/shaking method, in which over 90% saturation was achieved in less than 5 minutes of aeration
Click to expand...
Granted, this was comparing vs aeration stones (fish tank method), but it seems perfectly adequate without the need to pull out the drill and sanitize yet another tool.

I *may* experiment with using olive oil instead of aeration in the future. Basically you aerate so the yeast can divide. To divide, yeast need lipids for cell walls. Olive oil can supply the lipids instead of making the cells do the work to create them.
http://www.brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

It's an interesting idea. I'll probably give it a try in the next batch or two.
 
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sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

For buying your first round of power tools I'll second buying corded tools. Black and Decker is pretty good brand. They are cheap and reliable like me.

But, for my next cordless drill I will look at buying Milwaukee. I have owned DeWalt in the past, the first drill lasted nearly 10 years with 3 weeks of heavy use drilling through heavy gauge steel. Then the one I bought to replace it died within a year with out doing any heavy use.

If you go the really cheap route and buy from one of those Chinese import places like Harbor Freight, test the tool before you leave the store.
 
Gared

Gared

That is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure that it would really apply well to my homebrewing needs, since it seems more aimed at yeast slurry and I use exclusively (rehydrated) dry packets, and I would never use as much as a liter of yeast (though I'll definitely stow the info away in case I ever do achieve that dream of getting a commercial meadery off the ground). I do all of my aerating right now either by hand with a wire whisk or using my stick blender, but these work great for 1 gallon batches and not-so-great for 5+ gallon batches. If this hasn't been posted over at r/mead, you should post it. It sounds exactly like the sort of science that Bal would love to play with.[DOUBLEPOST=1420905575,1420905368][/DOUBLEPOST]
sixpackshaker said:
For buying your first round of power tools I'll second buying corded tools. Black and Decker is pretty good brand. They are cheap and reliable like me.

But, for my next cordless drill I will look at buying Milwaukee. I have owned DeWalt in the past, the first drill lasted nearly 10 years with 3 weeks of heavy use drilling through heavy gauge steel. Then the one I bought to replace it died within a year with out doing any heavy use.

If you go the really cheap route and buy from one of those Chinese import places like Harbor Freight, test the tool before you leave the store.
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Yeah... we've used Harbor Freight tools at work (though obviously a cabinet shop puts a lot more wear and tear on a tool than someone hanging curtains and towel racks)... won't do that again. They started failing in a matter of weeks. The reason I was looking for a cordless is that, while there are certainly plenty of outlets in this house, our furniture placement makes getting to the ones that would allow me to reach above the main windows less than ideal.

Edit: Though I suppose I should also own a good extension cord, which would mitigate that issue much better than buying a cheaply made cordless drill.
 
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strawman

strawman

Unless you're going to use it at least several times a month, cordless tools are more a burden than a help due to battery issues. I, too, recommend your first tools be corded. They'll cost half as much, have twice the power, and you don't have all the negatives of batteries to deal with along the way (waiting for it to charge, eventually not holding a good charge, replacement, can't use it for more than a few hours without then waiting for it to charge before resuming work, etc, etc, etc)

I have a corded makita 3/8" drill (fairly light duty) that has been working well for me for 16 years. Over the last 5 years I've gone through 3-4 harbor freight cordless drills - finally found one that was well built and it's been going strong for several years. I'm waiting another year or two for the lithium ion battery tools to become so pervasive that manufacturers won't keep changing the battery design.

When I do get my "good set" of cordless tools, I want to be able to use them for a decade without having a zillion different battery types.

Until then, I treat cordless tools as essentially disposable and buy a new $15 cordless tool from harbor freight when it's on sale, combining with a 20% off coupon. Even after all these "disposable" cordless drills I still haven't approached the cost of a good cordless tool, and after 5 years the battery in the good tools need replacing anyway, so as far as I can tell I'm still way out ahead in terms of cost.

Plus I end up with some great low voltage motors perfect for halloween projects.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

I bought a Bosch 32614 (I actually bought the "kit" package) about 8 years ago and haven't had any trouble since. Plenty of torque*, two speeds, and light and small enough to use one-handed in close quarters for an extended period of time (but I might be spoiled because what I had before was just a 9V Black & Decker). They make an 18V version as well, but the specs are pretty much identical (except for runtime) and the 14V was lighter/smaller. I wanted to buy one good cordless drill that would last pretty much the rest of my life, and so far that's exactly what's happening. Granted, I only use it now about once every couple of months, but every time I fire it up, it still makes that "brand new drill" smell.

--Patrick
*In low gear, I've easily driven 3-3/4" wood screws with no pilot.
 
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WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

I was also going to recommend a Bosch. I know a lot of our woodworking customers used that brand when I worked for my parents saw sharpening business. DeWalt is another brand I saw a lot in shops. We've had one of their cordless drills for close to 10 years and never had a problem with it. Makita and Ryobi are also good brands to look into. They're ones my dad would probably recommend.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

PatrThom said:
I only use it now about once every couple of months
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I want to clarify that when I bought it, I then used it to floor about 800sq feet of attic with 3/4" plywood sitting on top of 2x4's on edge (to allow for air/wiring), ringed with more 2x4's (to keep things from sliding off the edge into the surrounding insulation), and to re-do my entire 200sq ft workroom floor first with 1/2" plywood atop new 2x10" studs and then 3/4" plywood on top of that to repair all the preexisting water damage from the utility room next door, and all of it was done with screws (not nails) since I was going to be doing audio work and didn't want the floor to squeak. The first 5-6 months of that drill's existence were pure Hell, and it didn't even seem to notice. Its life now is one of relative luxury hanging the occasional picture, installing shelf braces, etc.

--Patrick
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

When I worked in a cabinet shop we used DeWalt cordless drills and Miter/Chop saws, Porter Cable routers, and industrial shapers and table saws. They all worked great, and we used them everyday. I think we burned out one router and two drills in the 3.5 years that I was there; not bad for 40+ hrs a week.

I have personally used Ryobi, Makita, Bosch, Delta, Milwaukee, and Black and Decker. I haven't had much trouble with any of them.

Post some pics if you ever make anything!

On this topic, I am going to this:
http://www.woodwrightschool.com/dovetails-2013/
I don't know why it says 2013. It should be a lot of fun. I have only made dovetails with a jig and haven't attempted to make them with hand tools.
 
Mathias

Mathias

I'm a DeWalt/Makita man, myself. I do not agree with Steiny, however, as I find my cordless drill to be infinitely more useful around the house than my corded one. Ain't no problem a good 18V cordless can't tackle. Keyword: Good. Don't go cheap on a drill. It's probably your most important tool next to a circular saw. Two batteries and you're set.

I will also eventually need to add a router and circular saw and/or table saw to the mix. I don't (currently) do a lot of woodworking, but would like to get into it for hobby purposes now and for home building later so that I don't have to try to either buy a house that's perfect, or hire someone to make minor repairs.
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I would hold off on a table saw, as they're expensive and you can get most hardware places to rip the width board you need. A router set will run you a couple hundred bucks and isn't crazy useful unless you're planning on making stuff like furniture, signs, and designs. For household needs, you absolutely want a drill, circular saw, miter saw, hammer-drill, jigsaw, and reciprocating saw in that order. I highly recommend building your own workbench, as it's customizable to any space you got and a great experience.
 
Mathias

Mathias

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-1...KA/100596156?N=5yc1vZc27fZ4j2Z1z0ulnwZ1z140i3

A little on the pricey side, but you won't need a new drill for a looong time. I'm still packing my 14V DeWalt and it's been going strong since I was a teenager. I just had to buy a new battery for it three years ago after like 10 years of regular use.

I personally think Makita makes the best the best saws (especially circular saws). I bought a cheapo Milwaukee reciprocating saw because those are mainly used for demolition work, so I didn't care about the quality. I've been pleasantly surprised with how rugged it is.[DOUBLEPOST=1421124056,1421124014][/DOUBLEPOST]
PatrThom said:
...it's a bit like forging your own ironworking tools.

--Patrick
Click to expand...

Yep. I consider it a handyman right of passage. Here's mine in the background. I made it on the cheap with like 100 bucks of 2x4's and ply when we first moved in. I went nuts with the top. That's an 8' sheet of 3/4" MDF with a 3/4" sheet of birch on top. Let's just say it's pretty solid. I have two more benches on the project list. One strictly for woodwork (lots of mounts and clamp holes), and a metal fabrication bench (duh) is in progress.
 
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drawn_inward

drawn_inward

If you do go for a cordless, I'd go for a light-weight compact one instead of the big full-size varieties. Unless you are using it everyday, I think it would be better to have something that is light and easy to use and manipulate.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

Mathias said:
I'm a DeWalt/Makita man, myself. I do not agree with Steiny, however, as I find my cordless drill to be infinitely more useful around the house than my corded one. Ain't no problem a good 18V cordless can't tackle. Keyword: Good. Don't go cheap on a drill. It's probably your most important tool next to a circular saw. Two batteries and you're set.



I would hold off on a table saw, as they're expensive and you can get most hardware places to rip the width board you need. A router set will run you a couple hundred bucks and isn't crazy useful unless you're planning on making stuff like furniture, signs, and designs. For household needs, you absolutely want a drill, circular saw, miter saw, hammer-drill, jigsaw, and reciprocating saw in that order. I highly recommend building your own workbench, as it's customizable to any space you got and a great experience.
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back when I was making wooden tinwhistles, I was able to make due with a $100-ish Riyobi table saw from home depot. Certainly a light-weight tool, but perfectly adequate for my purposes. And I used it to help build my own workbenches, using these plans:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/982334_.html

About $25 in materials (2x4s and MDF board) and they're really sturdy.
 
strawman

strawman

I, too, have a $100 table saw, and it's fine for a lot of work, but it's a tool I'd buy long after a circular saw, which can do nearly everything the average DIY person would need a rotating blade saw for. I'd even recommend a circular saw before a miter/chop saw. Of course I now have an extraordinarily nice table saw, which I find wonderful for many of my recent projects, so this isn't meant to put down table saws in general, just to suggest that you needn't collect tools for the sake of having the best tool for the job - sometimes a job can be done well enough for your needs with a cheaper, smaller tool you already have.

Mathias is pretty much spot on here, though I think we could all argue about the last three items priority. I suggest simply saving money, and as you need a tool for a specific project and have it budgeted, get it. No need to buy tools speculatively. I don't have a hammer drill, though there's been several times in the past year I could have used one, for instance.

Mathias said:
For household needs, you absolutely want a drill, circular saw, miter saw, hammer-drill, jigsaw, and reciprocating saw in that order. I highly recommend building your own workbench, as it's customizable to any space you got and a great experience.
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If you can't do a workbench just yet, buy a piece of plywood or MDF that you can place on your table or on sawhorses. It stores easily, and protects whatever table you use it on pretty well. Remember that a workbench is meant to be used - don't be afraid to screw things to it, or drill or cut it in the process of completing your project - it's another tool, not a fine piece of furniture.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

stienman said:
a workbench is meant to be used - don't be afraid to screw things to it, or drill or cut it in the process of completing your project
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When I was laying all the laminate flooring, my workbench was an oil-filled radiator.
I was verrry careful not to cut into it with my circular saw. I only nicked it once.

--Patrick
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

stienman said:
I, too, have a $100 table saw, and it's fine for a lot of work, but it's a tool I'd buy long after a circular saw, which can do nearly everything the average DIY person would need a rotating blade saw for. I'd even recommend a circular saw before a miter/chop saw.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree on any particular point. I just wanted to point out that table saws don't have to be terribly expensive--and for my purposes it was more handy to own one of those than a circular saw. Just try ripping 4x4x12 pieces of exotic hardwood into 1x1x12 pieces with a circular saw ;)
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

Build this workbench:
Starts about the 55 sec mark.


Just kidding, it's a bit overkill and too top heavy, but it sure looks nice.

I've never enjoyed posting in a thread as much as I have in this one. :tearsofjoy:
 
strawman

strawman

Yeah, a table saw would be better, though I'd almost recommend a radial arm saw for the work you were doing. Still, hard to beat a $100 table saw for that.

The disappointments I have in my current table saw are that they are 10" blades, and have a smaller depth of cut, so they can't handle four-by-x lumber. The powermatic is 3.125" depth, and the contracter's saw (forget the brand) is barely 3.25.
 
WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

@stienman - I called my dad because this didn't sound right to me. My dad's saying his DeWalt 10" chop saw goes through a 4 x 4 easily. First, are you sure it's not a metric blade? If it's a 250mm blade it will be about 1/8" - 3/16" smaller than a full 10" blade. I used to see that a lot. He also said to make sure your blade is going all the way to the top. If there is sawdust or something blocking the blade from coming up it will cut short. Then he said to make sure to check the washer/collar size to make sure it isn't too big. That will make your cut more shallow, too.[DOUBLEPOST=1421183932,1421183736][/DOUBLEPOST]
drawn_inward said:
I've never enjoyed posting in a thread as much as I have in this one. :tearsofjoy:
Click to expand...
I never thought I'd have a place to talk about what I learned while I worked for my parents' business!
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

WasabiPoptart said:
@stienman - I called my dad because this didn't sound right to me. My dad's saying his DeWalt 10" chop saw goes through a 4 x 4 easily. First, are you sure it's not a metric blade? If it's a 250mm blade it will be about 1/8" - 3/16" smaller than a full 10" blade. I used to see that a lot. He also said to make sure your blade is going all the way to the top. If there is sawdust or something blocking the blade from coming up it will cut short. Then he said to make sure to check the washer/collar size to make sure it isn't too big. That will make your cut more shallow, too.[DOUBLEPOST=1421183932,1421183736][/DOUBLEPOST]
I never thought I'd have a place to talk about what I learned while I worked for my parents' business!
Click to expand...
I think @stienman is talking about his table saw not cutting through 4" stock, not the chop saw/miter saw.
 
WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

I'm thinking what my dad meant is that he's using a chop saw blade with his table saw. I asked twice to be sure that he was still talking about what could be wrong with the table saw and that it should cut something that's a 4 x whatever.
 
strawman

strawman

My sliding compound miter saw will barely manage 4x4 (3.5") stock, so I'm fine there. But if I want to cut a 4x4 lengthwise (say I'm making a kubb set) then cutting all the way through requires two passes on my table saw. That's because the table saw motor is more powerful, larger, and thus prevents the blade from coming up quite as far. Further, there's a table between the motor and stock, which takes up more blade depth.

The miter saw motor is not as powerful, smaller diameter, and there's no table between the motor and stock, so that provides more blade for cutting.

There are probably 10" table saws which can handle 3.5" depth, and I'm sure people are putting larger blades on their table saws as well. Mine don't. Maybe I could modify them, but it's not something I can't easily work around anyway.

Here are the kubb sets I made recently for Christmas gifts. Each one uses exactly one 4x4x8, and the throwing sticks and corner markers require a cut lengthwise through the 4x4. The kubbs (smaller rectangular blocks) don't need to go all the way through the 4x4, but I had to do two passes for the sticks:




They fit into an 8" x 8" x 17" duffel bag, and between the wood and the bag I spent about $16 per set.
 
Mathias

Mathias

Tinwhistler said:
I don't disagree on any particular point. I just wanted to point out that table saws don't have to be terribly expensive--and for my purposes it was more handy to own one of those than a circular saw. Just try ripping 4x4x12 pieces of exotic hardwood into 1x1x12 pieces with a circular saw ;)
Click to expand...

I'd still take the circular saw. Mount a circular saw upside down on some plywood and viola, quick and dirty table saw!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-a-hand-held-circular-saw-into-a-table-saw/

[DOUBLEPOST=1421197233,1421197147][/DOUBLEPOST]
drawn_inward said:
Build this workbench:
Starts about the 55 sec mark.


Just kidding, it's a bit overkill and too top heavy, but it sure looks nice.

I've never enjoyed posting in a thread as much as I have in this one. :tearsofjoy:
Click to expand...

That's what I'm building for my woodwork! Can never have enough clamps![DOUBLEPOST=1421197388][/DOUBLEPOST]
stienman said:
I, too, have a $100 table saw, and it's fine for a lot of work, but it's a tool I'd buy long after a circular saw, which can do nearly everything the average DIY person would need a rotating blade saw for. I'd even recommend a circular saw before a miter/chop saw. Of course I now have an extraordinarily nice table saw, which I find wonderful for many of my recent projects, so this isn't meant to put down table saws in general, just to suggest that you needn't collect tools for the sake of having the best tool for the job - sometimes a job can be done well enough for your needs with a cheaper, smaller tool you already have.

Mathias is pretty much spot on here, though I think we could all argue about the last three items priority. I suggest simply saving money, and as you need a tool for a specific project and have it budgeted, get it. No need to buy tools speculatively. I don't have a hammer drill, though there's been several times in the past year I could have used
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is the general rule of thumb I follow. Be careful with that entire philosophy though. I've had a few instances where I tried to "jury-rig" shit using tools I have, and ended up just buying the right tool for the job after struggling all day.[DOUBLEPOST=1421197583][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh and yard sales! YARD SALES!


Great way to buy some good vintage tools! Target old people's houses. I highly recommend any old school Craftsman tools (circa 70's and 80's).
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

Speaking of pallet projects. There are loads of pallets around at our loading dock. Every time I pass by I think of Norm Abram's pallet coffee table. Since the labs in the build get big equipment, there are all sorts and sizes of pallets. There's one out there begging to be turned into a dining table. I don't have room for it sadly.
 
fade

fade

Staff member
I'm going to have to agree with Mathias. I'm a big time DIYer, and the power tool I get the most use out of is my cordless drill. I have a corded one and a drill press, but I almost never use either. The corded drill is louder, takes more effort to set up, and requires a cord. None of that is a deal-breaker, but it makes the cordless more appealing. I have a Craftsman that came with two batteries. I always leave one in the charger. Conventional wisdom says that this will shorten the life of the battery, but I've this drill for about 10 years with no noticeable effect on the battery life. It was a little pricey, though. I think I paid about $100 bucks or so for it. But given the sheer amount of usage I've gotten, that's money well spent.
 
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