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Headphones

#1

Jay

Jay

I decided to replace my old PC 350 Sennheiser headphones (had them for 5 years now) due to a broken microphone.

I've been looking at many new headphones and checking their reviews. Preferably I wanted something 7.1 and wireless but from what I can see, most 7.1 are lackluster and wireless technology has been piss poor.

I might be leaning on the PC 360 Sennheiser, the new and improved cousin of the PC 350 along with an extended warranty.

I also want to finally buy a better sound card and I've been looking at the Asus Xonar series.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicati...onar&image122.x=0&image122.y=0&sort=1&recs=10

With this being possibly the choice I'm leaning towards

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2941927&CatId=2771

What do you think Audio gurus?

I'm looking for a high quality, long term solution.


#2

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I will be watching the answers in this as I would LOVE a good headset with some serious sound quality for late night gaming.


#3

Jay

Jay

I was hoping for the Astro A50 to be awesome as it is 7.1 and wireless but reviews are WAAAAY to unstable. Some people claim awesomeness, other claim many many issues and Astro has confirmed they need to work on new firmware to make their shit better and their support has been overwhelmed since it came out.

I've checked many wireless headsets but damn most look and are rated shit. Then for headsets that are wired, most are rated shit and those who aren't have various issues reported by many users.


#4

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

My problem usually is trying to find great headphones under $100 that aren't -review ruined- by audio-masterbaters.


#5

drifter

drifter

Xonar DSX is on sale at Newegg for like $50 bucks.

Although you might consider skipping a new sound card and getting a headphone amp, depending on your old sound card.

As to headphones, seems like most people recommend getting a pair of quality cans and a stand-alone mic. Apparently the cost/performance ratio for gaming headsets is terrible.


#6

Frank

Frank

5.1 and 7.1 headsets are silly if anything I've ever read by any audiophile is to be believed.


#7

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Frank said:
5.1 and 7.1 headsets are silly if anything I've ever read by any audiophile is to be believed.
Click to expand...
I've heard 7.1 Headphones (my sister owns a pair of Razer Megalodons) and it's really amazing how it really does create a virtual surround sound in your head. Sadly though they're way out of my budget and she has complained on occasion of their quality in sound.


#8

Frank

Frank

I was just looking up some articles on them and the consensus seems to be they're mostly a gimmick. It's stacking sound drivers on top of sound drivers. You're more often going to get a higher quality of sound emulating 5.1 with a decent sound card using a good quality set of stereo cans for a lot less money than you are paying the extra money for the 5.1 or the 7.1.

I don't know this for certain myself, as I'm not really an audiophile and I live by myself and have a nice set of speakers for my PC and home theater, I don't use my headphones very often.


#9

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Frank said:
I was just looking up some articles on them and the consensus seems to be they're mostly a gimmick. It's stacking sound drivers on top of sound drivers. You're more often going to get a higher quality of sound emulating 5.1 with a decent sound card using a good quality set of stereo cans for a lot less money than you are paying the extra money for the 5.1 or the 7.1.

I don't know this for certain myself, as I'm not really an audiophile and I live by myself and have a nice set of speakers for my PC and home theater, I don't use my headphones very often.
Click to expand...
I use headphones nightly, trying to keep the noise level down for the family as I'm a night owl and they're all early risers. I wouldn't say the 7.1 is a gimmick because you really do get 7 points of sound direction when they're on, I will however say that the quality isn't as -high- as a regular -audiophile- level of headphones.


#10

Frank

Frank

Like I said, audiophiles (this is from reading head-fi.org which seems to be the internet gathering of crazy audiophiles) seem to consider them gimmicks as you can achieve an equal or greater effect with stereo headphones and a good amp and sound card.


#11

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

I do fine with my Audio-Technica M-50s and an O2 amp. Using a Sound Blaster X-Fi USB widget in place of onboard sound to eliminate electrical noise.


#12

Frank

Frank

I didn't even know that existed.


#13

PatrThom

PatrThom

Good soundcard? Get ready to spend about $500-600.
Good enough soundcard is another story.

--Patrick


#14

figmentPez

figmentPez

I just want a soundcard that can do Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect, or whatever they're calling them these days, so I can make better use of my previously under-utilized Logitech Z-680 speakers, which I can now use more regularly now that I'm in my own place. I think I'll probably get a Xonar DS for Christmas.

For headphones I use a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 pro (ran me about $80), and just a cheap little $10 Logitech microphone for voice communication in games.

I don't know anything about 7.1 headsets, though Woot is currently having a sale on Turtle Beach headsets, through the 4th. Doesn't look like the level of quality you're looking for, though, Jay.


#15

GasBandit

GasBandit

I've got a pair of Audio Technica ATH-a700 headphones that literally made me weep the first time I used them. They're pricey and have no mic, but the Zalman ZM-MIC1 fits it perfectly and delivers astounding recording quality, especially for the pittance it costs.


#16

Adam

Adam

Considering I spend most of my day wearing headphones just to block out office noise, as such:

headphones.jpg


I found them really comfortable, especially on the top of my head where there's no hair to create a comfort zone. Just a pair of cheap iTec's from Walmart. Totally doesn't help you, but tough.


#17

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

That picture doesn't move, it loses points. :confused:


#18

drifter

drifter

Just for reference, seems like the PC360 is basically an HD555 with a mic attached.


#19

Jay

Jay

PatrThom said:
Good soundcard? Get ready to spend about $500-600.
Good enough soundcard is another story.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
\help meeeeeeeeeeeeee


#20

Adam

Adam

Gilgamesh said:
That picture doesn't move, it loses points. :confused:
Click to expand...
headless.gif


#21

bhamv3

bhamv3

As one of those people who just wants to hear if he's getting shot at while gaming, this thread fascinates and confuses me in equal measure.


#22

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

My current collection...

MEElectronics A151
Audio Technica ATH-M50
V-Moda V-80 (True Blood rebranded M-80)
Grado SR60i

And the Objective 2 amp.


#23

GasBandit

GasBandit

DarkAudit said:
My current collection...

MEElectronics A151
Audio Technica ATH-M50
V-Moda V-80 (True Blood rebranded M-80)
Grado SR60i

And the Objective 2 amp.
Click to expand...
You like the M50s? I've heard really nice things about them.


#24

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Can't argue with anything he said there. Definitely more comfortable than the V-80s, and less leaky than the SR60s.


#25

Jay

Jay

mmmmmm confused


#26

PatrThom

PatrThom

I think a lot of the recommendations anyone could make are going to hinge on the following: Does the mic have to be part of the headset? You will have a LOT more options if the mic can exist separately on your desk, but if you have to have something that has a boom mic as part of it, your options are going to be significantly reduced.

--Patrick


#27

Jay

Jay

I have no issues if I can attach it.


#28

GasBandit

GasBandit

Then I can't recommend the Zalman ZM-Mic1 enough. It's been my trusty mic for a couple years now, and I think it's the best one I've ever owned... and it cost less than 5 bucks. Clips right on to "thick" headset cables (the kind found on better headphones, not the skinny kind)


#29

Jay

Jay

Interesting

and options for a headset?


#30

GasBandit

GasBandit

Jay said:
Interesting

and options for a headset?
Click to expand...
If I were buying a new set of headphones today, I would get the Audio Technica ATH-M50 that Darkaudit linked, and attach the Zalman ZM-MIC1 to them.


#31

PatrThom

PatrThom

I've been using a pair of ATH-M40fs for almost 10yrs now, and I have no complaints.
Fair warning, though. Neither of these are surround headphones, they're just plain ol' 2-channel stereo.
They do sound really nice, though.

--Patrick


#32

drifter

drifter

From what I was reading, seems like people really like open-ear cans for gaming. Larger soundstage, FPS, blah blah blah. The AKG K701 and the ATH-AD700 both came up a lot. Of course, if sound isolation is an issue, this may not be for you.


#33

Jay

Jay

PatrThom said:
I've been using a pair of ATH-M40fs for almost 10yrs now, and I have no complaints.
Fair warning, though. Neither of these are surround headphones, they're just plain ol' 2-channel stereo.
They do sound really nice, though.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
But what if I want surround?


#34

strawman

strawman

Jay said:
for headsets that are wired, most are rated shit and those who aren't have various issues reported by many users.
Click to expand...
Surround sound headsets have a variety of issues that make them difficult to do well in every category.

In order to fit several speakers in a reasonable can, and position them so they actually produce a small but discernible surround stage, each speaker is small, and thus loses out in terms of frequency range, power, and audio quality.

So you will never see a surround sound headset with great audio quality. You can either have surround sound, or great audio, but not both in a headset. That's a fundamental tradeoff you're going to have to make, and many people who care about both have two or more headsets and switch between them as needed. Surround sound headsets aren't terrible - but they simply can't compete with a good stereo headset in terms of sound quality due to physical constraints.

The kicker is that even then you'll never have great surround either because the sound stage is too small. It's better than nothing - you can tell the difference, and that's important for games where you have to know where the sound is coming from, but it simply can't compete with even a cheap 5.1 speaker setup that covers the room. You choose gaming headsets when you can't have a lot of external noise, or when you do have a lot of external noise and can't crank your speakers up enough to drown out external noise. Otherwise reals speakers set up in the room will almost always beat headsets.

Further, the surround sound headsets have many, many more wires than stereo headsets, and as such there are a lot more points of failure. This also leads to thicker, stiffer cords - and the thinner the cord, the more likely it is to break.

So you will always find a variety of issues once you choose surround sound headsets. It just comes with the territory. They are a compromise, and you need to decide what you're going to settle for.

If you go read amazon reviews and other suggestions keeping these tradeoffs in mind, I think you'll find one or two that stand out for you.


#35

figmentPez

figmentPez

Steinman, what do you know about virtual surround tech like Dolby Headphone?


#36

PatrThom

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
Steinman, what do you know about virtual surround tech like Dolby Headphone?
Click to expand...
Like these?
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/product/gaming/headset/listing.html

(I've never looked into surround headphones, so this thread's research is for my benefit, too)

--Patrick


#37

strawman

strawman

figmentPez said:
Steinman, what do you know about virtual surround tech like Dolby Headphone?
Click to expand...
Hmmm. How to summarize.

Humans don't have 3D hearing. At best they have 2D hearing. The only reason we perceive 3D hearing is because our ear structure alters the sound slightly depending on what direction it's coming from, and our brain processes these minute differences, combines them with other cues (usually visual) and then recreates the 3D sound for you.

There are a number of audio illusions that show you just how much your brain is tricking you.

When you have multiple speaker surround sound you are attempting to recreate the actual sound in the room that you would have if you were in the environment being simulated by the game or entertainment. Your ears and brain then do the work of decoding the audio and causing you to perceive the environmental sound as 3D.

With virtual surround sound Dolby and others have attempted to reverse engineer the ear and processing your brain does. It then takes the multiple input surround sound, and pushes it through a signal filter which is essentially the reverse of what your ear and brain processing does, so that when your ear and brain do their job you perceive it as though you had received multiple sound sources, when you've really only received two, one for each ear.

This works partly because your ears are isolated in this case - this doesn't work very well without headsets since the sound going into each ear has to be carefully controlled.

Everyone's ears and brains are different though, so it's not a great experience, but by relying on common features (again, see the audio illusions) they can give most people a reasonable facsimile of surround sound with a stereo headset.

I haven't looked into the Dolby tech specifically. It looks like some of them do a little of both - multiple speakers and processing, but not as many speakers as would otherwise be used.


#38

Jay

Jay

While this is informative, I'm not getting recommendations.

lol


#39

figmentPez

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
Like these?
Click to expand...
No, I mean the tech that is part of a soundcard, and works with any set of stereo headphones. Like on the ASUS Xonar D1

It's too bad Youtube compresses audio so terribly, I'd love to see a comparison like this with lossless audio.


#40

strawman

strawman

Jay said:
While this is informative, I'm not getting recommendations.

lol
Click to expand...

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE RECOMMENDATIONS!


#41

GasBandit

GasBandit

Jay said:
While this is informative, I'm not getting recommendations.

lol
Click to expand...
Long story short - surround headphones are bollocks, and if you insist on them you're dumb as a foodie and twice as annoying.


#42

Jay

Jay

I tend to play a variety of games and I can tell you that being able to pinpoint where sounds come from (instead of behind you, you hear below you to left your left) is extremely relevant to me and with my still functional (except for the mic) PC 350 Sennheisers that I've had for the last 5 years is day and night compared to other type of headsets I've had in the past.

I heard that PC 360 speakers are better and being the rich bastard that I am, I'm willing to fork whatever it takes (albeit I'm not paying for 500$ headsets or sound cards). Thus I repeat, I'm looking for a top-tier but not ridiculously priced headset with mic functionality and a sound card to support it. Wireless would be nice but but wireless I've seen thus far have sucked a dick.

Some recommendations are noted but I'm still unsure.


#43

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

I use a pair of logitech G930 wireless surround sound headphones with built in mic. I'm not an audiophile, but I think they sound pretty damn good


#44

PatrThom

PatrThom

Jay said:
my still functional (except for the mic) PC 350 Sennheisers that I've had for the last 5 years [...] day and night compared to other type of headsets I've had in the past.
Click to expand...
Jay, just buy the Zalman ZM-Mic1 to replace your broken mic and keep your current cans. Total cost is about $5 and you can put the $250 or more you were going to spend on a new setup towards a 9in Wüsthof or something useful.

There, I've made my recommendation, and I'm sticking to it. If you're still looking to upgrade after replacing your mic, then you'll have bought plenty of time to cruise reviews (or even wait for new tech to come out) for the low, low cost of $5.

--Patrick


#45

Frank

Frank

GasBandit said:
Long story short - surround headphones are bollocks, and if you insist on them you're dumb as a foodie and twice as annoying.
Click to expand...
What kind of foodie are we talking about here? This forum has proven to be problematic on what a foodie is.


#46

GasBandit

GasBandit

Frank said:
What kind of foodie are we talking about here? This forum has proven to be problematic on what a foodie is.
Click to expand...
If it takes more than 4 words to describe an individual item of food on your plate, fuck you, foodie.


#47

PatrThom

PatrThom

I take all my previous headphone recommendations back. You need to get a pair of these.
5Hz-50kHz response, <1%THD even at full 133dB output*.

Then you need to invite me over so I can try them out.

--Patrick
*Not recommended.


#48

Frank

Frank

Hmm, what's the pricetag on tho....HOLY SHIT.


#49

bhamv3

bhamv3

Frank said:
Hmm, what's the pricetag on tho....HOLY SHIT.
Click to expand...
Oh come on, they couldn't possibly be that ba... WHAT THE SHIT.


#50

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

You guys have to be exaggerating, it's just a... HOLY FUCK!


#51

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Don't look at the pricetag on the Stax. It'll just make you cry.


#52

Jay

Jay

The fuck


#53

Silent Bob

Silent Bob

How about a gaming headset that doesn't crap out sound in one ear? That's all I want. Every. Single. Headset I've ever owned has had issues with one ear dying.


#54

drifter

drifter

Silent Bob said:
How about a gaming headset that doesn't crap out sound in one ear? That's all I want. Every. Single. Headset I've ever owned has had issues with one ear dying.
Click to expand...
By chance do you habitually take them off one-handed? Might be mechanical wear.


#55

Silent Bob

Silent Bob

drifter said:
By chance do you habitually take them off one-handed? Might be mechanical wear.
Click to expand...
Nope, it happens eventually with all my headsets. One ear channel craps out.


#56

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Silent Bob said:
Nope, it happens eventually with all my headsets. One ear channel craps out.
Click to expand...
I bought a wireless headset because the wire going to my headsets kept breaking


#57

drifter

drifter

Silent Bob said:
Nope, it happens eventually with all my headsets. One ear channel craps out.
Click to expand...
Hmm, well while I can't speak to gaming headsets specifically, I do have an old pair of ATH-M30's that I use for yardwork and such. I've used them through heat, sweat, and dirt, and long enough that the fake leather covering the earpads have completely disintegrated. I think it's been around a decade now that I've had them, and they're still going strong. Right now they're around $53 at Amazon, but I know I've seen them down around $40 before.

There's also the Monoprice 8323; I've not had them, but I mention them because they come with a removable headphone cord. If it's the wire that's the weak point, you can just replace it. Very good sound quality regardless of price, they're also less than $25, which makes them a huge bargain, and cheap enough to not worry about if they do happen to break. They're purported to have excellent build quality, but I've also heard they're not the most comfortable things (headband is a little tight, although your mileage may vary).

They're both over-ear closed-back headphones, which means good sound isolation, but your ears may get a little hot if you wear them a long time. They're also both regular headphones, so these are only options if you are amenable to using a clip-on mic or some such.


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