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Does human aggression require an outlet?

#1

strawman

strawman

Is aggression a feeling, like love, that must be satisfied in some way to feel "complete" as a homo sapiens?


#2

MindDetective

MindDetective

No.


#3

strawman

strawman

Whew!


#4

MindDetective

MindDetective

I also disagree with the love assumption.


#5

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I have to say completely and totally: Yes it does.

I used to have serious anger management issues. I worked through it for years through study and professional help. It does require an outlet and is very similar to stress.


#6

PatrThom

PatrThom

To answer the question posed as the title of this thread: "Does Human aggression require an outlet?" my answer is an unequivocal, "Yes." Aggression should not be allowed to fester, it requires action or channeling to resolve, or else damage (physical or mental) to the organism may result.

To instead answer the different question posed in the OP: "Is aggression a feeling, like love, that must be satisfied in some way to feel 'complete' as a homo sapiens?" my answer is just as unequivocally, "No."

Aggression is not like vitamins, nor exercise. It is not a required part of the Human experience. In my opinion, stress (and external stressors in general) are required in order for any and all of Humanity to fully flower and grow, however aggression is but one of many responses to stress. It is a completely valid and acceptable response, mind you, but it is not the only response, nor does it seem to me that there would be definitive times when aggression would be the one-and-only valid and acceptable response, which is why I answer the second question with, "No."

--Patrick


#7

MindDetective

MindDetective

Arm chair psychologists. Sheesh. These questions are testable, by the way. Oh, and look, they have been tested!


#8

Calleja

Calleja

You guys shouldn't argue with MindDetective on this, I mean, DETECTING MINDS IS WHAT HE DOES.


#9

PatrThom

PatrThom

MindDetective said:
Arm chair psychologists. Sheesh. These questions are testable, by the way. Oh, and look, they have been tested!
Click to expand...
Ah, if only everyone knew everything. But then what would we discuss?

--Patrick


#10

MindDetective

MindDetective

Google is your friend! Google Scholar is your nerdy, know-it-all friend.


#11

Calleja

Calleja

PatrThom said:
Ah, if only everyone knew everything. But then what would we discuss?

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Things that we still don't know everything about, there will ALWAYS be more of those.


#12

Wahad

Wahad

PatrThom said:
Ah, if only everyone knew everything. But then what would we discuss?

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Opinions rather than facts, one would presume.


#13

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

MindDetective said:
Google is your friend! Google Scholar is your nerdy, know-it-all friend.
Click to expand...
Life experience is mine.


#14

WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

Because anecdotal evidence always trumps scientific proof.


#15

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

We know jack shit all about how the mind works.


#16

strawman

strawman

WasabiPoptart said:
Because anecdotal evidence always trumps scientific proof.
Click to expand...
Well maybe scientific proof needs to work on her poker face, and consider bluffing once in awhile, then she might stand a chance.


#17

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

WasabiPoptart said:
Because anecdotal evidence always trumps scientific proof.
Click to expand...
It does when it's happened to you and is directly against the scientific evidence. It might not be the same for everyone, but for the person that it happened to, it's fact vs opinion.[DOUBLEPOST=1357675444][/DOUBLEPOST]Disagree with what exactly Calleja?


#18

Calleja

Calleja

Perception is not fact. Your perception can be altered by an incredibly numerous and varied amount of things, including shit like hormones and mood. Not to mention chemicals.

Plus, human memory is like the most unreliable thing humans have. And that includes erections after lots of whiskey.


#19

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Perception of what?

If a study shows that something is not true, but it happens to someone anyway, that person won't give two shits about the study. They lived the truth.


#20

MindDetective

MindDetective

Gilgamesh said:
It does when it's happened to you and is directly against the scientific evidence. It might not be the same for everyone, but for the person that it happened to, it's fact vs opinion.
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I would posit that you couldn't articulate accurately what has happened to you, nor are you likely aware of all of the underlying, implicit (that is, unconscious) processes involved. This is why introspection has failed as a reliable investigative technique. It also underscores why a single data point is almost always insufficient for drawing strong conclusions about anything.


#21

Calleja

Calleja

Perception of REALITY dude. I'm sorry to tell you, but every single thing you see, hear and experience goes through an incredible amount of biological, cultural and neurological filters. This is why we create standards. What you perceive is not truth. The closest we can get to the truth is by studying what everyone perceives and see what's the most overlapping perception.


#22

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

MindDetective said:
I would posit that you couldn't articulate accurately what has happened to you, nor are you likely aware of all of the underlying, implicit (that is, unconscious) processes involved. This is why introspection has failed as a reliable investigative technique. It also underscores why a single data point is almost always insufficient for drawing strong conclusions about anything.
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Correct. As is a single or even multiple studies when put against someone's actual experience.

Calleja said:
Perception of REALITY dude. I'm sorry to tell you, but every single thing you see, hear and experience goes through an incredible amount of biological, cultural and neurological filters. This is why we create standards. What you perceive is not truth. The closest we can get to the truth is by studying what everyone perceives and see what's the most overlapping perception.
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Standards also do not apply to everyone or shall we bring up studies from the 1900-1950s and compare them to today's -standards-?


#23

MindDetective

MindDetective

Gilgamesh said:
Correct. As is a single or even multiple studies when put against someone's actual experience.
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This is patently untrue. Your memory and perception are inherently flawed, and thus will never trump systematic investigation.


#24

Calleja

Calleja

No. That's why I said "closest" and "overlap".

And I'm sorry, but if you think what you experience is THE TRUTH, you're incredibly narcissistic. You may argue about your OWN truth, but then you open yourself up to a whole new range of counterarguments. Psychopaths have their own truths, too.


#25

PatrThom

PatrThom

WasabiPoptart said:
Because anecdotal evidence always trumps scientific proof.
Click to expand...
It does require a letter of excuse from time to time, yes (ball lightning, people who survive skydiving accidents, school behavior, Greek fire, the Tunguska fireball, etc).

--Patrick


#26

Calleja

Calleja

PatrThom said:
It does require a letter of excuse from time to time, yes (ball lightning, people who survive skydiving accidents, school behavior, Greek fire, the Tunguska fireball, etc).

--Patrick
Click to expand...
For any of those to actually challenge scientific lnowledge, there HAS to be evidence beside the anecdote, and that's the truth for every example. We didn't just believe a guy survived a skydiving accident, we SAW the footage and the results. There's a difference.


#27

BananaHands

BananaHands

'dem disagrees.


#28

MindDetective

MindDetective

To put a finer point on it (without knowing any details of your experience): I surmise that you didn't develop an outlet for aggression but learned contrary behaviors to unhealthy aggressive behaviors. These are very different things, mind you. In the one case, you are satisfying some kind of aggressive urge that is going to be released no matter what. In the other, you are replacing one behavior with another behavior, which then restricts your ability to even engage in unhealthy behavior. The discrepancy here is not that you have changed at all, but in your interpretation of the underlaying processes involved.


#29

Calleja

Calleja

Someone needs to read "The Doors of Perception".


#30

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

Wow, I've never seen more disagrees in such a short span.

Let me further articulate my short post that didn't really answer the question and tell you that I'm very jaded when it comes to problems of the mind due to family experience.

After seeing first hand the effects of personality disorders and mind breakdowns on family members with doctors left scratching their heads as to what's going on... we know very VERY little about how the mind works.

**edit... I'm probably seriously off topic too so you know... take that with a grain of salt**


#31

Gared

Gared

Pudding.


#32

Calleja

Calleja

Azurephoenix said:
Wow, I've never seen more disagrees in such a short span.

Let me further articulate my short post that didn't really answer the question and tell you that I'm very jaded when it comes to problems of the mind due to family experience.

After seeing first hand the effects of personality disorders and mind breakdowns on family members with doctors left scratching their heads as to what's going on... we know very VERY little about how the mind works.

**edit... I'm probably seriously off topic too so you know... take that with a grain of salt**
Click to expand...
We know a minimal percentage of what there is to know, yeah, but I would still say it's unfair to say we know "jack shit".

The problem is that we know very, very VERY little about the mind of an INDIVIDUAL, cause, see, brains aren't like hearts or lungs. What is true of one is not of the other, the mere WIRING of it changes it dramatically and drastically. There are identical twins with the exact same genetic code where one is autistic and the other is completely normal. The only difference would then be their brain wiring, which does NOT seem to be genetic. At least not completely. This is why @Gilgamesh's arguments about his perception being THE TRUTH to the extent of questioning studies with large samples is laughable.


#33

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I dunno what else to say honestly. I had aggression issues, I found outlets, through professionals, for them. I no longer have aggression issues. That's about all I can say.

So my response to the original post was and still will be: Yes, aggression needs an outlet.


#34

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

Calleja said:
We know a minimal percentage of what there is to know, yeah, but I would still say it's unfair to say we know "jack shit".
Click to expand...
This is true and I apologize for my knee-jerk use of hyperbole. I'm just sad about what has happened to the minds of a few family members in the past few years and that there really isn't anything we can do about it... at all.

I also agree with your comment about knowing the mind of an individual. Hell, my mom doesn't respond to any drugs the way she is supposed to and can't be clearly diagnosed as she has elements from all kinds of different disorders.


#35

Calleja

Calleja

Gilgamesh said:
I dunno what else to say honestly. I had aggression issues, I found outlets, through professionals, for them. I no longer have aggression issues. That's about all I can say.

So my response to the original post was and still will be: Yes, aggression needs an outlet.
Click to expand...
YOUR aggression needs an outlet. Notice the key difference. Your touting what worked for YOU as TRUTH. That's literally like saying Reggaeton is the best thing humankind has made and insisting it's a FACT because YOU believe it.


#36

fade

fade

I miss having MindDetective around more. Also, Google Scholar may be a nerdy know-it-all when it comes to your field, but it's more like a highly inept librarian when it comes to geoscience.


#37

Calleja

Calleja

But, but.. geology rocks!


#38

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Calleja said:
YOUR aggression needs an outlet. Notice the key difference. Your touting what worked for YOU as TRUTH. That's literally like saying Reggaeton is the best thing humankind has made and insisting it's a FACT because YOU believe it.
Click to expand...
I never claimed it was fact for everyone, as I clearly stated:

Gilgamesh said:
It might not be the same for everyone but for the person that it happened to, it's fact vs opinion.
Click to expand...


#39

Calleja

Calleja

Umm

Gilgamesh said:
I have to say completely and totally: Yes it does.

I used to have serious anger management issues. I worked through it for years through study and professional help. It does require an outlet and is very similar to stress.
Click to expand...

You're definitely talking in absolutes here. Also:
"For the person that it happened, it's fact vs opinion"

You're still considering it "FACT". Facts are NOT subjective. If you said it's personal experience vs scientific consensus, then you're not sounding like you believe to be the sole possessor of human knowledge.


#40

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Calleja said:
Umm




You're definitely talking in absolutes here. Also:
"For the person that it happened, it's fact vs opinion"

You're still considering it "FACT". Facts are NOT subjective. If you said it's personal experience vs scientific consensus, then you're not sounding like you believe to be the sole possessor of human knowledge.
Click to expand...
That's how it was taken, then I guess I can simply say that the intention was:

Despite studies to the contrary, sometimes they don't apply to everyone and in my experience having an outlet was what my professional recommended based on his extensive studies and experience on the subject. Due to his analysis and suggestions, I found that outlets helped with my aggression issues and are no longer a problem.

Studies are also not 100% concrete as we're finding out many years later after -studies from the 1900s-1950s have been found very faulty.


#41

Calleja

Calleja

Only Sith deal in absolutes, Gilgy.

(And yes, just saying that means I'm a sith.)


#42

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Calleja said:
Only Sith deal in absolutes, Gilgy.

(And yes, just saying that means I'm a sith.)
Click to expand...
I would say I walk a fine line between the two personally. I wasn't really versed in the SW Universe, was there ever any kind of really badass Neutral Jedi/Sith guy?


#43

Calleja

Calleja

Gilgamesh said:
I would say I walk a fine line between the two personally. I wasn't really versed in the SW Universe, was there ever any kind of really badass Neutral Jedi/Sith guy?
Click to expand...
In the EU yeah, sure, lots, Gray jedi. The New Jedi Order Luke creates after is actually sorta kinda that, he tried to move away from the Jedi monk beliefs (no loving, no marrying) cause he believed extremes to be bad. I'm such a nerd.


#44

fade

fade

Well, I always thought that was what the movies were getting at anyway. That neither the Jedi nor the Sith were right. Luke brought balance to the force because he embodied both. There were good things about the Sith, and they weren't inherently "evil", just prone to self-service. I actually really liked that Palpatine (EU notwithstanding) seemed to geniunely care about Anakin, and showed concern when he kneeled over his burned body.

train.jpg


#45

WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

fade said:
Well, I always thought that was what the movies were getting at anyway. That neither the Jedi nor the Sith were right. Luke brought balance to the force because he embodied both. There were good things about the Sith, and they weren't inherently "evil", just prone to self-service. I actually really liked that Palpatine (EU notwithstanding) seemed to geniunely care about Anakin, and showed concern when he kneeled over his burned body.

View attachment 9601
Click to expand...


#46

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Gilgamesh said:
I would say I walk a fine line between the two personally. I wasn't really versed in the SW Universe, was there ever any kind of really badass Neutral Jedi/Sith guy?
Click to expand...
Qui Gon Motherfucking Jin.

Also, Jolee Bindo


#47

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Ravenpoe said:
Qui Gon Motherfucking Jin.

Also, Jolee Bindo
Click to expand...
Qui Gon was very much Jedi with a slight rogue streak, I wouldn't go so far as to call him Neutral.


#48

strawman

strawman

No, Anakin brought balance to the force by making sure there were only two jedi and two sith alive at once.

:troll:


#49

bhamv3

bhamv3

I find it amusing that this thread got really aggressive.


#50

Calleja

Calleja

It's cause I've injected the latin flavor back into the boards. It's not aggressiveness, it's CALOR! *rolls his tongue and screams like a mariachi*


#51

bhamv3

bhamv3

Calleja said:
It's cause I've injected the latin flavor back into the boards. It's not aggressiveness, it's CALOR! *rolls his tongue and screams like a mariachi*
Click to expand...
So you're getting calory with us?

Maybe if more of us behaved more like you, we could all become calories!

Man, this pun sounded so much better in my head.


#52

PatrThom

PatrThom

bhamv3 said:
Man, this pun sounded so much better in my head.
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Is your head full of calories, bhamv3 ?

Lessee...
pork-brains_label_jpg_627x1000_q85.jpg


Average brain is about 1350g, so if we dock a bit to account for the milk, your brain has about 1200 calories, or about 1/2 the total daily calorie intake for an average human being, but it comes with the collateral damage of bringing about 100x the recommended daily amount of cholesterol! Man! Looks like eating brains can kill ya even if you don't get kuru!

--Patrick


#53

Wahad

Wahad

PatrThom said:
Is your head full of calories, bhamv3 ?

Lessee...
View attachment 9613

Average brain is about 1350g, so if we dock a bit to account for the milk, your brain has about 1200 calories, or about 1/2 the total daily calorie intake for an average human being, but it comes with the collateral damage of bringing about 100x the recommended daily amount of cholesterol! Man! Looks like eating brains can kill ya even if you don't get kuru!

--Patrick
Click to expand...
They're so delicious though. I hate that mad cow/CJD is a thing because I love me some brains. I've had them only once, and they're like bonemarrow, if bonemarrow had the consistency of pudding.


#54

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

Wahad said:
They're so delicious though. I hate that mad cow/CJD is a thing because I love me some brains. I've had them only once, and they're like bonemarrow, if bonemarrow had the consistency of pudding.
Click to expand...

Oh man, there's no barf rating... so I'll just have to put it here. :puke:


#55

MindDetective

MindDetective

fade said:
I miss having MindDetective around more. Also, Google Scholar may be a nerdy know-it-all when it comes to your field, but it's more like a highly inept librarian when it comes to geoscience.
Click to expand...
It's not my preferred database but it will do in a pinch. I do like how it will find PDFs out in the ether that my university may not subscribe to otherwise.


#56

Bowielee

Bowielee

I think it would be extremely helpful if Gilgamesh defined what he means by "outlet". If he's talking about venting aggression via expressing himself verbally or creatively over say, beating a pillow, those are two completely different things.

One increases aggression, the other decreases it.


#57

Calleja

Calleja

Wahad said:
They're so delicious though. I hate that mad cow/CJD is a thing because I love me some brains. I've had them only once, and they're like bonemarrow, if bonemarrow had the consistency of pudding.
Click to expand...
We eat brains down here in tacos and quesadillas all the time, they're called "sesos" and are delicious. Some people even call them sesadillas. Funny mexicans.


#58

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I'm impressed by the number of ways you guys managed to derail the thread in the space of a page. Well done, all.


#59

Jax

Jax

Pfff one page? It usually takes just one post on this board:drunk:


#60

Wahad

Wahad

Calleja said:
We eat brains down here in tacos and quesadillas all the time, they're called "sesos" and are delicious. Some people even call them sesadillas. Funny mexicans.
Click to expand...
I have yet to eat sesos. Seems like a good idea! What else is in them besides brains?


#61

Calleja

Calleja

Wahad said:
I have yet to eat sesos. Seems like a good idea! What else is in them besides brains?
Click to expand...

Umm.. salsa and lime? It's literally brains on a tortilla, mostly. And cheese if they're sesadillas.

They sometimes also add them to like a mixture of meat, but then it's not sesos, it's.. well.. stuff with sesos, depending what it is


.


#62

fade

fade

That's eating smart.


#63

Calleja

Calleja

Not really, cows aren't very bright.


#64

WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

Bowielee said:
I think it would be extremely helpful if Gilgamesh defined what he means by "outlet". If he's talking about venting aggression via expressing himself verbally or creatively over say, beating a pillow, those are two completely different things.

One increases aggression, the other decreases it.
Click to expand...
I started thinking about this, too, last night. Maybe his "outlet" is actually behavioral modification techniques to help him manage his anger more productively. They aren't exactly the same thing.


#65

Frank

Frank

Calleja said:
Not really, cows aren't very bright.
Click to expand...
Also, brains are Kerrrr-razy high in cholesterol.


#66

Calleja

Calleja

But the good kind, right?

Right?


#67

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Calleja said:
But the good kind, right?

Right?
Click to expand...
Umm...


#68

Calleja

Calleja

IMG WHAT!?


#69

bhamv3

bhamv3

Holy shit...


#70

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Brains are fish food.


#71

strawman

strawman

A pig's brain is about the size of a duck's egg, so there's probably a little over one pig's worth of brains in that can.

From http://justcookit.blogspot.com/2009/06/nose-to-tail-tuesday-n3t-brains.html

Sitting opposite each other in unintentional gladiatorial style, we each picked up a piece of battered brain and took a bite.

It is not necessary for something to taste actively bad in order to be unpleasant. Texture plays a major role in how we enjoy food. Few westerners enjoy the sticky, glutinous quality of many Asian delicacies such as Natto, made from fermented soybeans.

In that respect brain is unpleasant. Deeply so. What little flavour there is, is not nice. Faintly eggy but not strong enough in of itself to warrant being labelled disgusting.

But the texture of brain is what made us wince. Hard to pin down we tried to find a foodstuff with which to compare it to. The uncooked top of an inadequately fried egg. The slight ickiness of a cloying curdled milk product. Yoghurt that has gone flying far, far beyond its best before date.

It’s somewhere ethereal beyond liquid but stopping short of being solid and it disappeared in the mouth in an alarming fashion, almost flooding the palate with its bizarre nature. The brief respite of the batter only accentuated the downright unpleasantness of what was inside.

We ate another, with slightly more mayonnaise and slightly less gusto in order to galvanise our findings hoping that having removed the shock and awe factor, our second taste wouldn’t be clouded with prejudice. But prejudice merely gave way to knowledge and expectation. I’m not sure if it was better or worse. There was certainly no pride.

The remaining two nuggets were dissected and picked apart in order to pin down what the texture was like but we were still left without an adequate comparison.

A truth universally acknowledged? There is an exception that proves every rule and brain is the one.

Verdict? Brain has made the list. The. List. The list of foods I will happily go a lifetime without tasting again. It has happy company along with tinned tuna and hundred year egg. Don’t try this at home.
Click to expand...


#72

Frank

Frank

Canned tuna...?

That's not terrible. At all.

Hmm, that site makes my antivirus go nuts too.


#73

Calleja

Calleja

Bah, brains are delicious


#74

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Canned tuna is delicious.


#75

fade

fade

100 year egg? Seriously? That stuff is awesome!


#76

PatrThom

PatrThom

Calleja said:
brains down here [are] called "sesos" and are delicious.
Click to expand...
I am now imagining a large number of ribald cartoons where an "n" is substituted in that word, and people are shown happily "eating" them.

--Patrick


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