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Catholic sex guide!

May 14, 2009#1

@Li3n

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8049853.stm

A Polish Catholic priest has published a book which provides married couples with a theological and practical guide to spicing up their sex lives.

In his book, Sex as you don't know it: for married couples who love God, Father Ksawery Knotz aims to sweep away the strait-laced attitudes many hold.

Sex in marriage, the Franciscan friar explains, should not be boring but "saucy, surprising and fantasy packed".

The book, which has the backing of the Polish Catholic Church, has been a hit.

The Sw. Pawel publishing house has ordered a reprint after Poles snapped up the first 5,000 copies within weeks of them going on sale.

'Sought-after caresses'

In the book that has been dubbed the "Catholic Kama Sutra", Father Knotz goes into graphic detail about a subject many in the Church consider taboo.

Some people [think married sex] has to be sad like a traditional church hymn
Father Ksawery Knotz

"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Father Knotz believes sex is an important way for a husband and wife to express their love and grow closer to God.

"Married couples celebrate their sacrament, their life with Christ also during sex," he writes.

"Calling sex a celebration of the marriage sacrament raises its dignity in an exceptional way. Such a statement shocks people who learned to look at sexuality in a bad way. It is difficult for them to understand that God is also interested in their happy sex life and in this way gives them his gift."

But Father Knotz stresses the book does not differ from the Church's view on sex. He discourages the use of contraceptives, saying they "lead a married couple outside of Catholic culture and into a completely different lifestyle".

He also dismisses those that have questioned the competency of a celibate monk to write about sex, saying his experience comes from counselling married couples and from running a website giving sexual advice for almost a year.

And their priest don't even get married...

May 14, 2009#2

Iaculus

@Li3n said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8049853.stm

A Polish Catholic priest has published a book which provides married couples with a theological and practical guide to spicing up their sex lives.

In his book, Sex as you don't know it: for married couples who love God, Father Ksawery Knotz aims to sweep away the strait-laced attitudes many hold.

Sex in marriage, the Franciscan friar explains, should not be boring but "saucy, surprising and fantasy packed".

The book, which has the backing of the Polish Catholic Church, has been a hit.

The Sw. Pawel publishing house has ordered a reprint after Poles snapped up the first 5,000 copies within weeks of them going on sale.

'Sought-after caresses'

In the book that has been dubbed the "Catholic Kama Sutra", Father Knotz goes into graphic detail about a subject many in the Church consider taboo.

Some people [think married sex] has to be sad like a traditional church hymn
Father Ksawery Knotz

"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Father Knotz believes sex is an important way for a husband and wife to express their love and grow closer to God.

"Married couples celebrate their sacrament, their life with Christ also during sex," he writes.

"Calling sex a celebration of the marriage sacrament raises its dignity in an exceptional way. Such a statement shocks people who learned to look at sexuality in a bad way. It is difficult for them to understand that God is also interested in their happy sex life and in this way gives them his gift."

But Father Knotz stresses the book does not differ from the Church's view on sex. He discourages the use of contraceptives, saying they "lead a married couple outside of Catholic culture and into a completely different lifestyle".

He also dismisses those that have questioned the competency of a celibate monk to write about sex, saying his experience comes from counselling married couples and from running a website giving sexual advice for almost a year.

Click to expand...

And their priest don't even get laid (mostly)...

Fixed for accuracy. Holy Orders are a bitch.

May 14, 2009#3

JONJONAUG

Iaculus said:
@Li3n said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8049853.stm

A Polish Catholic priest has published a book which provides married couples with a theological and practical guide to spicing up their sex lives.

In his book, Sex as you don't know it: for married couples who love God, Father Ksawery Knotz aims to sweep away the strait-laced attitudes many hold.

Sex in marriage, the Franciscan friar explains, should not be boring but "saucy, surprising and fantasy packed".

The book, which has the backing of the Polish Catholic Church, has been a hit.

The Sw. Pawel publishing house has ordered a reprint after Poles snapped up the first 5,000 copies within weeks of them going on sale.

'Sought-after caresses'

In the book that has been dubbed the "Catholic Kama Sutra", Father Knotz goes into graphic detail about a subject many in the Church consider taboo.

Some people [think married sex] has to be sad like a traditional church hymn
Father Ksawery Knotz

"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Father Knotz believes sex is an important way for a husband and wife to express their love and grow closer to God.

"Married couples celebrate their sacrament, their life with Christ also during sex," he writes.

"Calling sex a celebration of the marriage sacrament raises its dignity in an exceptional way. Such a statement shocks people who learned to look at sexuality in a bad way. It is difficult for them to understand that God is also interested in their happy sex life and in this way gives them his gift."

But Father Knotz stresses the book does not differ from the Church's view on sex. He discourages the use of contraceptives, saying they "lead a married couple outside of Catholic culture and into a completely different lifestyle".

He also dismisses those that have questioned the competency of a celibate monk to write about sex, saying his experience comes from counselling married couples and from running a website giving sexual advice for almost a year.

Click to expand...

And their priest don't even get laid (mostly)...

Click to expand...

Fixed for accuracy. Holy Orders are a bitch.

And now in before the inevitable pedophile joke.

May 14, 2009#4

@Li3n

Iaculus said:
And their priest don't even get laid (mostly)...

Click to expand...

Fixed for accuracy. Holy Orders are a bitch.

Not something i would bet money on...

May 14, 2009#5

HowDroll

Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed.

May 14, 2009#6

Kitty Sinatra

HowDroll said:
Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed.

Well, it is directed at married couples :uhhuh:

May 14, 2009#7

HowDroll

Gruebeard said:
HowDroll said:

Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed.

Click to expand...

Well, it is directed at married couples :uhhuh:

My point stands.

May 14, 2009#8

Iaculus

@Li3n said:
Iaculus said:

And their priest don't even get laid (mostly)...

Click to expand...

Fixed for accuracy. Holy Orders are a *.

Click to expand...

Not something i would bet money on...

Hence the 'mostly'. Besides, the Franciscans take a fairly strict line on such matters.

May 14, 2009#9

The Mike

HowDroll said:
Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed.

But priests know a lot about sexual stimulation, that's actually what they are good at

May 14, 2009#10

Shannow

Anal.

May 14, 2009#11

ElJuski

The Catholic Sex Guide

Chapter 1: Missionary

...and the rest of the pages are just blank

May 14, 2009#12

sixpackshaker

It sure beats the advice,

Close your eyes and think of England.

May 14, 2009#13

CynicismKills

ElJuski said:
The Catholic Sex Guide

Chapter 1: Missionary

...and the rest of the pages are just blank

It's not a book so much as a pamphlet.

Also

the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God

So who exactly is this priest planning to sex?

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUnTOa1qKIY:2o5m7kbc][/youtube:2o5m7kbc]

May 14, 2009#14

Silver Jelly

This is ridiculous. A priest giving sex guidance?

But it isn't, when most sex related information catholic people have gotten from their priests has been: SEX? More like MORTAL SIN!

If this just came from the Vatican, and not from some bloke in Poland, we would be one step closer to losing some of the stupid baggage most cristianism comes with.

May 14, 2009#15

CrimsonSoul

Seems the same message that this site has

May 14, 2009#16

sixpackshaker

Silver Jelly said:
This is ridiculous. A priest giving sex guidance?

But it isn't, when most sex related information catholic people have gotten from their priests has been: SEX? More like MORTAL SIN!

If this just came from the Vatican, and not from some bloke in Poland, we would be one step closer to losing some of the stupid baggage most cristianism comes with.

The Church will still treat Extra-marital sex as a mortal sin. It is just too many people carry their sexual hang-ups into marriage, and wreck the relationship.

May 14, 2009#17

North_Ranger

Next week: Taking driving lessons from the Amish!

May 14, 2009#18

HowDroll said:
Gruebeard said:

HowDroll said:

Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed.

Click to expand...

Well, it is directed at married couples :uhhuh:

Click to expand...

My point stands.

:finger:

May 14, 2009#19

Silver Jelly

sixpackshaker said:
Silver Jelly said:

This is ridiculous. A priest giving sex guidance?

But it isn't, when most sex related information catholic people have gotten from their priests has been: SEX? More like MORTAL SIN!

If this just came from the Vatican, and not from some bloke in Poland, we would be one step closer to losing some of the stupid baggage most cristianism comes with.

Click to expand...

The Church will still treat Extra-marital sex as a mortal sin. It is just too many people carry their sexual hang-ups into marriage, and wreck the relationship.

One step at a time!

(By the way, this is lost when it leaves my brain, but the concept of "Mortal Sin" is ridiculous to me...)

May 14, 2009#20

JCM

Let me guess, man on top, oral sex is a no-no and anal brings you and your wife to the fiery pits of hell?

May 14, 2009#21

JCM said:
...and anal brings you and your wife to the fiery pits of hell?

If you're doing it right. :unibrow:

May 14, 2009#22

Silver Jelly

I still say that, even if it's the most ridiculously inhibited book... I sometimes think I should try to be a priest just to do this kind of stuff* from inside the church. I still find that not equating the idea that pleasure through sex with sin is something good.

*Or, you know, BETTER stuff.

May 14, 2009#23

JCM

Seeing that he´s a priest, which means he doesnt even have sex, might I suggest the other guides- "The blind´s guide to looking?" or "Mav´s tips on how to get a girl into bed"?

May 14, 2009#24

sixpackshaker

Why do you keep thinking priests don't have any sex. They have a vow of Celibacy not Chastity.

Etymology

From Latin caelibatus (“‘celibacy, a single life’”), perfect passive participle of caelibare, from caelebs (“‘unmarried’”)

[edit] Noun

Singular
celibacy

Plural
uncountable

celibacy (uncountable)

1. Abstaining from marriage; the state of being unmarried.
2. Abstaining from sexual relations.

The second definition is there because of popular confusion about the term.

May 14, 2009#25

Ravenpoe

sixpackshaker said:
Why do you keep thinking priests don't have any sex. They have a vow of Celibacy not Chastity.

Etymology

From Latin caelibatus (“‘celibacy, a single life’”), perfect passive participle of caelibare, from caelebs (“‘unmarried’”)

[edit] Noun

Singular
celibacy

Plural
uncountable

celibacy (uncountable)

1. Abstaining from marriage; the state of being unmarried.
2. Abstaining from sexual relations.

Click to expand...

The second definition is there because of popular confusion about the term.

The second definition is there because it's how the word is often defined in everyday language? Shocking.

May 14, 2009#26

tegid

Also:

Priests cannot marry.
Catholics cannot have sex outside of marriage.

THEREFORE (and pretty simply so)

Priests cannot have sex.

May 14, 2009#27

Chibibar

tegid said:
Also:

Priests cannot marry.
Catholics cannot have sex outside of marriage.

THEREFORE (and pretty simply so)

Priests cannot have sex.

^-- This.

That is why I wonder how does priest come up with Sex advice. It is like blind leading the blind.

May 14, 2009#28

tegid

Well, but I'm very much of Silver's opinion too.

It's great that priests and other people in the church that are going to be listened to say sex isn't bad, being gay isn't bad, whatever.

Still, the pope is a jackass more usually than not and the catholic dogma says he's infallible...

May 14, 2009#29

Silver Jelly

tegid said:
Still, the pope is a * more usually than not and the catholic dogma says he's infallible...

I bet a Pope made that be dogma. Probably when he found out he sucked at Trivial Pursuit.

May 14, 2009#30

Ravenpoe

Chibibar said:
tegid said:

Also:

Priests cannot marry.
Catholics cannot have sex outside of marriage.

THEREFORE (and pretty simply so)

Priests cannot have sex.

Click to expand...

^-- This.

That is why I wonder how does priest come up with Sex advice. It is like blind leading the blind.

You realize that being a priest does not mean that person is a virgin. I mean, they weren't born priests, they became one later in life.

May 14, 2009#31

R

Raemon777

I actually think this guy did a pretty good thing. Is his advice going to be perfect? No, but it's also not necessarily going to be useless - it's not like you can't research this sort of thing. And it's important that this DOES come from a priest. The whole point is to give an official, church-sanctioned "Okay, look, we realize you may have gotten the message that anything fun ever is basically a sin, but seriously, it's okay for you guys to do fun kinky stuff once you're married."

I don't particularly like the Catholic Church, but there are plenty of people who do find it an important element of their lives, and it's good that some priests are trying their best to help married couples have better sex lives.

May 14, 2009#32

Iaculus

Ravenpoe said:
Chibibar said:

tegid said:

Also:

Priests cannot marry.
Catholics cannot have sex outside of marriage.

THEREFORE (and pretty simply so)

Priests cannot have sex.

Click to expand...

^-- This.

That is why I wonder how does priest come up with Sex advice. It is like blind leading the blind.

Click to expand...

You realize that being a priest does not mean that person is a virgin. I mean, they weren't born priests, they became one later in life.

Dude's a Franciscan friar who claims he got his material from conversations with married couples.

'Nuff said.

May 14, 2009#33

Chazwozel

JCM said:
Seeing that he´s a priest, which means he doesnt even have sex, might I suggest the other guides- "The blind´s guide to looking?" or "Mav´s tips on how to get a girl into bed"?

"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Father Knotz believes sex is an important way for a husband and wife to express their love and grow closer to God.

"Married couples celebrate their sacrament, their life with Christ also during sex," he writes.

"Calling sex a celebration of the marriage sacrament raises its dignity in an exceptional way. Such a statement shocks people who learned to look at sexuality in a bad way. It is difficult for them to understand that God is also interested in their happy sex life and in this way gives them his gift."

But Father Knotz stresses the book does not differ from the Church's view on sex. He discourages the use of contraceptives, saying they "lead a married couple outside of Catholic culture and into a completely different lifestyle".

He also dismisses those that have questioned the competency of a celibate monk to write about sex, saying his experience comes from counselling married couples and from running a website giving sexual advice for almost a year.

Christ almighty, do you ever actually read anything before you post?

May 14, 2009#34

Espy

Chazwozel said:
Christ almighty, do you ever actually read anything before you post?

You must be new here.

May 14, 2009#35

Kitty Sinatra

Dude, Chaz's been around here forever. How have you not seen him around?

May 14, 2009#36

Bubble181

He was too busy reading a certain book.

Also, I'm curious aboutt his book.

May 15, 2009#37

JCM

Chazwozel said:
JCM said:

Seeing that he´s a priest, which means he doesnt even have sex, might I suggest the other guides- "The blind´s guide to looking?" or "Mav´s tips on how to get a girl into bed"?

Click to expand...

"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Click to expand...

Christ almighty, do you ever actually read anything before you post? Because I sure dont do it.

Yep you cant read. A guide to sex by a priest (who either hasnt had much sex lately) is as idiotic as having a dumb dramatic jock who cant read post exactly what I questioned.

I suggest sticking to Karate for dummies.

He was too busy reading a certain book.

Also, I'm curious aboutt his book.

May 15, 2009#38

Chazwozel

JCM said:
Chazwozel said:

JCM said:

Seeing that he´s a priest, which means he doesnt even have sex, might I suggest the other guides- "The blind´s guide to looking?" or "Mav´s tips on how to get a girl into bed"?

Click to expand...

"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Click to expand...

Christ almighty, do you ever actually read anything before you post? Because I sure dont do it.

Click to expand...

Yep you cant read. A guide to sex by a priest (who either hasnt had much sex lately) is as idiotic as having a dumb dramatic jock who cant read post exactly what I questioned.

I suggest sticking to Karate for dummies.
[quote:j1pmfph8]He was too busy reading a certain book.

Also, I'm curious aboutt his book.

[/quote:j1pmfph8]

In what you have bolded, the priest is pretty much saying that if you fuck doggy style, clad in assless leather chaps that you're doing God's will by enjoying the sex with your married partner.

Here's what you said in your very first post:

Let me guess, man on top, oral sex is a no-no and anal brings you and your wife to the fiery pits of *?

You didn't even read the OP quote and made that assumption. Am I anywhere disagreeing that a sex book by a priest is a little weird? I agree, it's a stupid concept to take sex tips from a priest, but your assumptions are completely pulled out of your ass when the OP quotes him as stating the complete opposite. And you can start throwing around your childish insults all you want, I'm not the one who posts assumptions without even reading the source material and understanding it.

Oh another thing. I don't usually stand up for Mav or anyone around here, but why would you say that about the dude? That's kind of fucked up berating him in a thread he's not even participating in. If you want to play hardball on those terms: JCM's guide to life: Make up sex stories, pretend to be a master of the jungle, make up professions, play internet tough guy, get a sexually transmitted disease from a Thai she-man, pretend to dabble through various religions to find purpose to your meaningless and vapid life, die. New York Times best seller.

May 15, 2009#39

Math242

god damn it, you two better not ruin this thread.

May 15, 2009#40

LordRavage

I worry about you Chaz.

I keep picturing a blood vessel in your skull ready to pop everytime you read the forums. :uhhuh:

May 15, 2009#41

Chazwozel

Math242 said:
god damn it, you two better not ruin this thread.

I said what I have to say. That's all from me. There's no possible way he can bullshit himself out of this one. There's no opinion to the matter at all, so anything he has to say any further than what I posted is moot.

-- Fri May 15, 2009 9:23 am --

LordRavage said:
I worry about you Chaz.

I keep picturing a blood vessel in your skull ready to pop everytime you read the forums. :uhhuh:

What?!? Really? I'm fine and dandy. I take pleasure in picking apart JCM's nonsensical logic. In the tasering thread Tin and I were having a good laugh over PM's. Honestly, I've only been set off like once or twice by bewildering stupidity, otherwise I'm happy as a clam when I post.

May 15, 2009#42

"Priests do it Dogma style!"

"This is my flesh. Eat it."

I could go on.

May 15, 2009#43

Shannow

Cum unto the children?

May 15, 2009#44

zero

Heh... well, you gotta admit, Catholic church view on sex is something that is very badly misunderstood, even by some Catholics (and yeah, the church is to blame on that). JCM's assumptions are sadly very common, even within Catholics. In fact, I'm somehow surprised Chaz is so enlightened in this obscure matter (I remember something about Chaz being raised as a Catholic, but driven away by some idiotic priest... am I right?).

The whole view of the Church on sex is to create huge solid catholic families. Here's some Catholic church "do and do not" concerning sex:

- Do not have sex before marriage.
- Do not have sex outside your marriage.
- Do not use contraceptives.
- DO have a LOT OF sex with your mate (in fact, it is a severe sin to not have sex while being married).

About anal and oral, they aren't by any means a "sin" inside the catholic church! Just make sure you won't be doing it in prejudice of the traditional way (otherwise, see, no babies...).

Certainly, the contraceptive matter is the most controversial today, it is not clear that the population grow is sustainable in today's world (although the effects of increased lifespan are arguably much worse, and I don't see many people defending the hurling of elders in tar pits). Besides that one, I'd say those aren't really unreasonable... (yes, yes, before anyone ask, I am NOT married, I DO have sex while using contraceptives... shame on me, I guess... )

May 15, 2009#45

Chazwozel

zero said:
Heh... well, you gotta admit, Catholic church view on sex is something that is very badly misunderstood, even by some Catholics (and yeah, the church is to blame on that). JCM's assumptions are sadly very common, even within Catholics. In fact, I'm somehow surprised Chaz is so enlightened in this obscure matter (I remember something about Chaz being raised as a Catholic, but driven away by some idiotic priest... am I right?).

The whole view of the Church on sex is to create huge solid catholic families. Here's some Catholic church "do and do not" concerning sex:

- Do not have sex before marriage.
- Do not have sex outside your marriage.
- Do not use contraceptives.
- DO have a LOT OF sex with your mate (in fact, it is a severe sin to not have sex while being married).

About anal and oral, they aren't by any means a "sin" inside the catholic church! Just make sure you won't be doing it in prejudice of the traditional way (otherwise, see, no babies...).

Certainly, the contraceptive matter is the most controversial today, it is not clear that the population grow is sustainable in today's world (although the effects of increased lifespan are arguably much worse, and I don't see many people defending the hurling of elders in tar pits). Besides that one, I'd say those aren't really unreasonable... (yes, yes, before anyone ask, I am NOT married, I DO have sex while using contraceptives... shame on me, I guess... )

I'm not debating anything other than what the priest was quoted in saying and what JCM inferred the book was going to be about without actually reading the source material (or reading it and completely doing a fly by in understanding it).

Let me put this bluntly: I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS PRIEST OR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS TO SAY ABOUT SEX.

May 15, 2009#46

Bubble181

zero said:
I don't see many people defending the hurling of elders in tar pits

Sounds like a plan, I'm all for it. Age 37 or a bit higher? :-P

May 15, 2009#47

zero

Chazwozel said:
Let me put this bluntly: I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS PRIEST OR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS TO SAY ABOUT SEX.

May 15, 2009#48

Chibibar

zero said:
- DO have a LOT OF sex with your mate (in fact, it is a severe sin to not have sex while being married).

A sever sin huh? I guess a lot of married couple are going to hell now

(general assumption that married people have fewer sex, at least for some couple :whistling:

)

May 15, 2009#49

Iaculus

Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

May 15, 2009#50

sixpackshaker

Iaculus said:
Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

By dogma, the most famous married couple in the Bible did not have children of their own. They got a loaner from God.

May 15, 2009#51

Chazwozel

Chibibar said:
zero said:

- DO have a LOT OF sex with your mate (in fact, it is a severe sin to not have sex while being married).

Click to expand...

A sever sin huh? I guess a lot of married couple are going to * now (general assumption that married people have fewer sex, at least for some couple )

Yeah the sacrament of marriage is deeply steeped in the whole concept of "go forth and multiply" business. I mean the whole institution is one of only seven sacramental rights of the religion, so it's understandable that lack sex (sex being an important concept of marriage) would be a sin. A priest would phrase it as "denying a gift that God has given you."

May 15, 2009#52

zero

Iaculus said:
Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Damn Iaculus, now you hit a touchy subject... You are right, many priests refuse to celebrate weddings between infertile people. It seems a little harsh, but if you consider that the catholic wedding is not about celebration of love between two people but as the beginning of a new family, some feel it would be hypocritical to do otherwise...

May 15, 2009#53

Chibibar

zero said:
Iaculus said:

Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Click to expand...

Damn Iaculus, now you hit a touchy subject... You are right, many priests refuse to celebrate weddings between infertile people. It seems a little harsh, but if you consider that the catholic wedding is not about celebration of love between two people but as the beginning of a new family, some feel it would be hypocritical to do otherwise...

So lets assume that a couple who is not infertile married, but later decide NOT to have kids and have his tube tied (or hers) would that consider be contraceptive? or commit great sin since they can't produce kids.

While it is all fine and dandy of producing a family BUT it is expensive to raise a child (or slew of them), the money required rest upon the couple and their family.

May 15, 2009#54

Chazwozel

Iaculus said:
Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

I'm not sure, but I don't think a priest and bishop would have particular beef with that kind of marriage. There are other aspects to marriage aside from having children of your own.

Priest to infertile married couple: "Eh, gimme 15 Hail Mary's and 2 Apostle's Creeds and we'll call it even."

May 15, 2009#55

zero

Chazwozel said:
Yeah the sacrament of marriage is deeply steeped in the whole concept of "go forth and multiply" business. I mean the whole institution is one of only seven sacramental rights of the religion, so it's understandable that lack sex (sex being an important concept of marriage) would be a sin. A priest would phrase it as "denying a gift that God has given you."

Chaz, you can't really blame people who get confused about your interest on Church's view on sex (particularly considering the subject of this thread...)

May 15, 2009#56

Chazwozel

zero said:
Iaculus said:

Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Click to expand...

Damn Iaculus, now you hit a touchy subject... You are right, many priests refuse to celebrate weddings between infertile people. It seems a little harsh, but if you consider that the catholic wedding is not about celebration of love between two people but as the beginning of a new family, some feel it would be hypocritical to do otherwise...

Really? I've never heard of this.

May 15, 2009#57

Chazwozel said:
Priest to infertile married couple: "Eh, gimme 15 Hail Mary's and 2 Apostle's Creeds and we'll call it even."

I swore you said "Apollo Creeds" at first. I laughed until I realized I read it wrong.

May 15, 2009#58

Chazwozel

zero said:
Chazwozel said:

Yeah the sacrament of marriage is deeply steeped in the whole concept of "go forth and multiply" business. I mean the whole institution is one of only seven sacramental rights of the religion, so it's understandable that lack sex (sex being an important concept of marriage) would be a sin. A priest would phrase it as "denying a gift that God has given you."

Click to expand...

Chaz, you can't really blame people who get confused about your interest on Church's view on sex (particularly considering the subject of this thread...)

Just because I was (still am I guess) Catholic and understand the mindset doesn't particularly mean I endorse it. I grew up Catholic, so I do know a thing or two about the religion.

May 15, 2009#59

zero

Chibibar said:
zero said:

Iaculus said:

Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Click to expand...

Damn Iaculus, now you hit a touchy subject... You are right, many priests refuse to celebrate weddings between infertile people. It seems a little harsh, but if you consider that the catholic wedding is not about celebration of love between two people but as the beginning of a new family, some feel it would be hypocritical to do otherwise...

Click to expand...

So lets assume that a couple who is not infertile married, but later decide NOT to have kids and have his tube tied (or hers) would that consider be contraceptive? or commit great sin since they can't produce kids.

While it is all fine and dandy of producing a family BUT it is expensive to raise a child (or slew of them), the money required rest upon the couple and their family.

Yeah, to marry within the Catholic Church and decide to not have children after is a severe no-no... In fact, even have a few children and have your "tubes tied" could be frowned upon (which isn't admittedly very reasonable considering, as you said, the resources involved in raising a child today...)

May 15, 2009#60

JCM

DramaLlamaChaz said:
ANGRY LLAMA IS ANGRY!!
ANGRY LLAMA CANNOT UNDERSTAND SIMPLE ENGLISH!!
JCM NERD MUST NOT HAVE SEX GAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!
ANGRY LLAMA WRITE IN BOOOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its always interesting to see the idiotic jock mentality over and over, maybe I should buy "Chaz´ guide to the internet: whine that nerds get sex, cousin beats you at a videogame, say "yes master" to women, quit forums and still entertain others"

I love making fun of your nonsense Chaz, please do keep it up.

LordRavage said:
I worry about you Chaz.

I keep picturing a blood vessel in your skull ready to pop everytime you read the forums. :uhhuh:

I must admit loving to bait him into another goodbye thread, posting shitty traced drawings or complaining about nerds.

Anyway, my question still stands, how is a priest anyway able to give sex advice?
If its relationship advice, based on counselling couples, I do admit I´d buy it.

-- Fri May 15, 2009 10:20 am --

Iaculus said:
Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Ouch... thats a good question.

Anyone here might enlighten us?

May 15, 2009#61

zero

JCM said:
Iaculus said:

Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Click to expand...

Ouch... thats a good question.

As I said, that's a very touchy subject. A priest could in thesis refuse to celebrate such wedding, although it may be unlikely (after all, one can always argue that infertility is by no means an absolute, Medical science evolves, and miracles may happen...). But this is all speculation from my part. What I know for sure is that infertility is one of the few solid reasons for nullification of a Catholic marriage.

May 15, 2009#62

@Li3n

There are plenty of examples in the Bible of infertile women giving birth by the grace of God... so if the priest says something about it just slap him with one...

May 15, 2009#63

JCM

zero said:
JCM said:

Iaculus said:

Incidentally, what's the Catholic take on marrying someone you know is infertile? Given that marriage is largely about producing children from that perspective.

Click to expand...

Ouch... thats a good question.

Click to expand...

As I said, that's a very touchy subject. A priest could in thesis refuse to celebrate such wedding, although it may be unlikely (after all, one can always argue that infertility is by no means an absolute, Medical science evolves, and miracles may happen...). But this is all speculation from my part. What I know for sure is that infertility is one of the few solid reasons for nullification of a Catholic marriage.

I teach a group of priests every Monday, this will be an interesting question to put forth to them, but so far what I know is that the church doesnt condemn it or other cases like older infertile people having sex.

Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."144 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.145

Some good links on this would be-
http://marriage.about.com/od/catholic/a/catholicsex.htm

Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul II:
http://www.foryourmarriage.org/interior ... d=20398964

However, I cant find anything on infertile marriage itself.

May 15, 2009#64

@Li3n

Well i can't speak for catholics, but as i recall it's the trying that's important... being infertile isn't a choice like using contraceptives.

May 15, 2009#65

Chazwozel

Ah I see JCM hasn't failed to disappoint.

-- Fri May 15, 2009 10:44 am --

@Li3n said:
Well i can't speak for catholics, but as i recall it's the trying that's important... being infertile isn't a choice like using contraceptives.

Yeah, like I said, I've never heard of a priest of bishop denying marriage to an infertile couple (or older people for that matter).

May 15, 2009#66

@Li3n

he never does... good ol trusty jcm... you can always count on him

May 15, 2009#67

JCM

@Li3n said:
he never does... good ol trusty jcm... you can always count on him

*bows* Always glad to poke fun at jocks stuck in mid-age crisis.

Well i can't speak for catholics, but as i recall it's the trying that's important... being infertile isn't a choice like using contraceptives.

Found this-

In 1965 Pope Paul VI confirmed his predecessor's teaching in his encyclical Humanae Vitae. "Similarly excluded is any action, which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation…." However, he made the two new concessions quoted by Adam Schwartz: "If therefore there are reasonable grounds for spacing births…then married people may take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and use their marriage at precisely those times that are infertile…." The other concession is to infertile couples.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2669

May 15, 2009#68

Chazwozel

JCM said:
@Li3n said:

he never does... good ol trusty jcm... you can always count on him

Click to expand...

*bows* Always glad to poke fun at jocks stuck in mid-age crisis.

Well i can't speak for catholics, but as i recall it's the trying that's important... being infertile isn't a choice like using contraceptives.

Click to expand...

Again, reading comprehension fail.

btw, I'm 27, although I have been looking into buying a BMW M3... :drool:

May 15, 2009#69

Espy

Chibibar said:
zero said:

- DO have a LOT OF sex with your mate (in fact, it is a severe sin to not have sex while being married).

Click to expand...

A sever sin huh? I guess a lot of married couple are going to * now (general assumption that married people have fewer sex, at least for some couple )

Actually there was a few studies that came out a couple of years ago that showed that married couples tend to have the most satisfying sex lives. :heythere:

May 15, 2009#70

JCM

Espy said:
Actually there was a few studies that came out a couple of years ago that showed that married couples tend to have the most satisfying sex lives.

I must agree with this 100%... I wouldnt change sex in a relationship for various sex partners ever... while the hunt is fun, there´s nothing like the closeness and familiarity of someone you love.

Chaz said:
btw, I'm 27, although I have been looking into buying a BMW M3...

Offtopic insistence fail?

Congrats on the car, if what you´ve said about all your studying is true, you deserve it.

May 15, 2009#71

JCM said:
Chaz said:

btw, I'm 27, although I have been looking into buying a BMW M3...

Click to expand...

Offtopic insistence fail?
Congrats on the car, if what you´ve said about all your studying is true, you deserve it.

Not off topic. You told him he was moving into middle age.

May 15, 2009#72

Chazwozel

JCM said:
Espy said:

Actually there was a few studies that came out a couple of years ago that showed that married couples tend to have the most satisfying sex lives.

Click to expand...

I must agree with this 100%... I wouldnt change sex in a relationship for various sex partners ever... while the hunt is fun, there´s nothing like the closeness and familiarity of someone you love.

Chaz said:

btw, I'm 27, although I have been looking into buying a BMW M3...

Click to expand...

Offtopic insistence fail?
Congrats on the car, if what you´ve said about all your studying is true, you deserve it.

Dude, seriously, you need to take English 101.

It's not an off-topic statement if it's a play on an existing subject. You said mid-life crisis. What do people usually buy when they're having a mid-life crisis? A sports car. :blargh: Fucking retard.

-- Fri May 15, 2009 11:13 am --

Edrondol said:
JCM said:

Chaz said:

btw, I'm 27, although I have been looking into buying a BMW M3...

Click to expand...

Offtopic insistence fail?
Congrats on the car, if what you´ve said about all your studying is true, you deserve it.

Click to expand...

Not off topic. You told him he was moving into middle age.

See, he was able to comprehend it!

May 15, 2009#73

Ouch!

May 15, 2009#74

JCM

Says Mr "I cant relate question to thread", but hey, your nerd rages do keep me entertained.

OP: Priest guide to sex
Thread: countless Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed and Taking driving lessons from the Amish!
Chaz: Getting panties in bunch and whining about learning to read.
Thread: 10 posts on how Chaz isnt making sense.
JCM: bait

Edrondol said:
JCM said:

Espy said:

Actually there was a few studies that came out a couple of years ago that showed that married couples tend to have the most satisfying sex lives.

Click to expand...

I must agree with this 100%... I wouldnt change sex in a relationship for various sex partners ever... while the hunt is fun, there´s nothing like the closeness and familiarity of someone you love.

Chaz said:

btw, I'm 27, although I have been looking into buying a BMW M3...

Click to expand...

Offtopic insistence fail?
Congrats on the car, if what you´ve said about all your studying is true, you deserve it.

Click to expand...

Not off topic. You told him he was moving into middle age.

While talking about the subject at hand and replying to lame ad-homins? :slywink: But hey, he entertains me, brb.

May 15, 2009#75

Chazwozel

Time to spoon feed the moron.

JCM said:
Let me guess, man on top, oral sex is a no-no and anal brings you and your wife to the fiery pits of hell?

Priesty Priest said:
"Some people, when they hear about the holiness of married sex, immediately imagine that such sex has to be deprived of joy, frivolous play, fantasy and attractive positions," he writes.

"[They think] it has to be sad like a traditional church hymn.

"Every act - a type of caress, a sexual position - with the goal of arousal is permitted and pleases God. During sexual intercourse, married couples can show their love in every way, can offer one another the most sought-after caresses."

Do me a favor add this to your sig:

May 15, 2009#76

JCM

Guess not making it beyond your contry and one language does make a drama llama unable to understand a "joke",
or unable to read page 1? Jesus. learn to read my good man, but since you rely on "Karate for dummies", here is-
The 1st pages of the thread for dummies (or in this case, angerllama)

HowDroll said:
Anyone who takes sex advice from a priest must have a very poor sex life indeed.

Iaculus said:
And their priest don't even get laid (mostly)...

@Li3n said:
Fixed for accuracy. Holy Orders are a bitch.

Not something i would bet money on...

Shannow said:
Anal.

The Mike said:
But priests know a lot about sexual stimulation, that's actually what they are good at

sixpackshaker said:
It sure beats the advice, Close your eyes and think of England.

But it isn't, when most sex related information catholic people have gotten from their priests has been: SEX? More like MORTAL SIN!

It's not a book so much as a pamphlet.

North_Ranger said:
Next week: Taking driving lessons from the Amish!

Silver Jelly said:
This is ridiculous. A priest giving sex guidance?

JCM said:
Let me guess, man on top, oral sex is a no-no and anal brings you and your wife to the fiery pits of hell?

ZenMonkey said:
If you're doing it right.

Chibibar said:
That is why I wonder how does priest come up with Sex advice. It is like blind leading the blind.

Edrondol said:
"Priests do it Dogma style!"
"This is my flesh. Eat it."
I could go on.

Shannow said:
Cum unto the children?

Heck, even you cracked a stupid joke-

AngerLLama said:
Priest to infertile married couple: "Eh, gimme 15 Hail Mary's and 2 Apostle's Creeds and we'll call it even."

Here, take this-

Now is this where you say the whole forum is full of idiots and quit it again, or where you say that we´re all nerds and should learn to be a priest the hard way?
Suggestion, since you cant get past English, do learn it, and read the thread.

May 15, 2009#77

Chazwozel

Wakka Wakka Wakka

May 15, 2009#78

JCM

WAKA-WAKA?

May 15, 2009#79

Chibibar

so what I learn from this Thread. (I was born Catholic but no longer one in my mind since I practice other beliefs)

A Catholic Priest wrote a book on how to have good sex.
A Catholic Priest are not allow to marry
Having sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Having sex with someone else when you are marry is a sin.
NOT having sex with your married partner is a sin.

What we infer so far from not having read this book.
The priest could be getting information from married couples
The priest could be using from past experience and hopefully he was married at the time (or it would have been a sin) but I guess he would be divorce now since he is a priest? (what is the rule on that?)
having different type of sex within the married couple is ok (other than missionary, blow jobs, anal, cosplay, BSDM etc etc)
Having sex during a "none fertile" time to space out child producing is ok. (i.e. don't have sex while the woman is on her more fertile time)

did I miss anything so far?

May 15, 2009#80

zero

Chibibar said:
The priest could be using from past experience and hopefully he was married at the time (or it would have been a sin) but I guess he would be divorce now since he is a priest? (what is the rule on that?)

Hey, it's not a problem to have sinners becoming priests. What WOULD be a problem is for a divorced man to become a priest, since there's no such thing inside the Church (as I said, there are nullifications, but those are somehow complex...).

May 15, 2009#81

CrimsonSoul

You missed the christian nymphos

May 15, 2009#82

Chibibar

zero said:
Chibibar said:

The priest could be using from past experience and hopefully he was married at the time (or it would have been a sin) but I guess he would be divorce now since he is a priest? (what is the rule on that?)

Click to expand...

Hey, it's not a problem to have sinners becoming priests. What WOULD be a problem is for a divorced man to become a priest, since there's no such thing inside the Church (as I said, there are nullifications, but those are somehow complex...).

Ok. So a priest could have sex outside of marriage and use that information in his book, and it will be ok, but as long he was not married and divorce later on (since priest can't be married right?) would not be ok or even allowed. (unless the priest nullified the marriage)

May 15, 2009#83

JCM

Chibibar said:
zero said:

Chibibar said:

The priest could be using from past experience and hopefully he was married at the time (or it would have been a sin) but I guess he would be divorce now since he is a priest? (what is the rule on that?)

Click to expand...

Hey, it's not a problem to have sinners becoming priests. What WOULD be a problem is for a divorced man to become a priest, since there's no such thing inside the Church (as I said, there are nullifications, but those are somehow complex...).

Click to expand...

Ok. So a priest could have sex outside of marriage and use that information in his book, and it will be ok, but as long he was not married and divorce later on (since priest can't be married right?) would not be ok or even allowed. (unless the priest nullified the marriage)

We do have the problem of that being adultery, and correct me if I am wrong, but arent catholic priests supposed not to marry, as that is the case here in Brazil.

May 15, 2009#84

Chibibar

JCM said:
Chibibar said:

zero said:

Chibibar said:

The priest could be using from past experience and hopefully he was married at the time (or it would have been a sin) but I guess he would be divorce now since he is a priest? (what is the rule on that?)

Click to expand...

Hey, it's not a problem to have sinners becoming priests. What WOULD be a problem is for a divorced man to become a priest, since there's no such thing inside the Church (as I said, there are nullifications, but those are somehow complex...).

Click to expand...

Ok. So a priest could have sex outside of marriage and use that information in his book, and it will be ok, but as long he was not married and divorce later on (since priest can't be married right?) would not be ok or even allowed. (unless the priest nullified the marriage)

Click to expand...

We do have the problem of that being adultery, and correct me if I am wrong, but aren't catholic priests supposed not to marry, as that is the case here in Brazil.

Well I was trying to guess where the priest could get information from. I presume the priest would have repent if he had sex before marriage and then became a priest (since sinners can become priest) but divorce in Catholics is a no-no. Since priests are not allow to marry and you can't have sex outside of marriage (especially as a priest even after you repent) the information he use in the book could be from past experience AND advice from married couples (since I would assume a Catholic priest would not use information from sinners, i.e. people who have sex outside of marriage or adultery.

May 15, 2009#85

zero

JCM said:
Chibibar said:

zero said:

Chibibar said:

The priest could be using from past experience and hopefully he was married at the time (or it would have been a sin) but I guess he would be divorce now since he is a priest? (what is the rule on that?)

Click to expand...

Hey, it's not a problem to have sinners becoming priests. What WOULD be a problem is for a divorced man to become a priest, since there's no such thing inside the Church (as I said, there are nullifications, but those are somehow complex...).

Click to expand...

Ok. So a priest could have sex outside of marriage and use that information in his book, and it will be ok, but as long he was not married and divorce later on (since priest can't be married right?) would not be ok or even allowed. (unless the priest nullified the marriage)

Click to expand...

We do have the problem of that being adultery, and correct me if I am wrong, but arent catholic priests supposed not to marry, as that is the case here in Brazil.

I think he meant "a guy could have sex without being married then afterward join the Church". If that's the case Chibi, you are correct. In fact, I knew personally a priest whose history was precisely that.

May 15, 2009#86

Chibibar

zero said:
I think he meant "a guy could have sex without being married then afterward join the Church". If that's the case Chibi, you are correct. In fact, I knew personally a priest that falls precisely in this case.

^-- This. My assumption that if the priest use personal experience, it would be this.

May 15, 2009#87

JCM

Chibibar said:
zero said:

I think he meant "a guy could have sex without being married then afterward join the Church". If that's the case Chibi, you are correct. In fact, I knew personally a priest that falls precisely in this case.

Click to expand...

^-- This. My assumption that if the priest use personal experience, it would be this.

That was the case I´d questioned a page back.

Lets hope that this is the case for the aforementioned priest?

May 15, 2009#88

Espy

Oh hey look, a *insert religious leader of choice* is trying to encourage the believers of their faith to have better relationships and sex lives. OMG everyone freak out and/or overanalyze it. :eyeroll:

May 15, 2009#89

Chibibar

Espy said:
Oh hey look, a *insert religious leader of choice* is trying to encourage the believers of their faith to have better relationships and sex lives. OMG everyone freak out and/or overanalyze it. :eyeroll:

only if the *insert religious leader of choice* use the proper research. What if this person never had sex, and never use his congregation's opinion and wrote what he think people should do, would you follow it if you were in his congregation?

May 15, 2009#90

Espy

Chibibar said:
Espy said:

Oh hey look, a *insert religious leader of choice* is trying to encourage the believers of their faith to have better relationships and sex lives. OMG everyone freak out and/or overanalyze it. :eyeroll:

Click to expand...

only if the *insert religious leader of choice* use the proper research. What if this person never had sex, and never use his congregation's opinion and wrote what he think people should do, would you follow it if you were in his congregation?

If the sum of his information is "Hey! Married couples! Have sex, it's not against the rules of this religions! Have fun with it and here is some advice from my years of working with married couples" then why the hell would you have a problem with it?
Seriously, you guys are really reading way to much into what seems like a really positive thing overall. Keep in mind, I'm not saying his advice is "good" advice, I don't really care. There are a billion "therepists" out there with differing views, this is just one of many. What we do have is someone saying "Hey, religious people, lighten up about sex! Have it! Enjoy it!" and you guys freak out over that? Considering how much time some people here spend bashing religions as "uptight" I would think you would applaud this sort of thing.

May 15, 2009#91

Chibibar

Espy said:
Chibibar said:

Espy said:

Oh hey look, a *insert religious leader of choice* is trying to encourage the believers of their faith to have better relationships and sex lives. OMG everyone freak out and/or overanalyze it. :eyeroll:

Click to expand...

only if the *insert religious leader of choice* use the proper research. What if this person never had sex, and never use his congregation's opinion and wrote what he think people should do, would you follow it if you were in his congregation?

Click to expand...

If the sum of his information is "Hey! Married couples! Have sex, it's not against the rules of this religions! Have fun with it and here is some advice from my years of working with married couples" then why the hell would you have a problem with it?
Seriously, you guys are really reading way to much into what seems like a really positive thing overall. Keep in mind, I'm not saying his advice is "good" advice, I don't really care. There are a billion "therepists" out there with differing views, this is just one of many. What we do have is someone saying "Hey, religious people, lighten up about sex! Have it! Enjoy it!" and you guys freak out over that? Considering how much time some people here spend bashing religions as "uptight" I would think you would applaud this sort of thing.

My defense for questioning it is that, if this guy is legit (i.e. not sinning while being a priest) then "yay! it is all good" but if he is sinning (i.e. research via having sex himself) then it would invalidate the writing and people would shun his work and thus have negative effect. I am trying to ensure that the research are within the Catholic teaching and thus we all can go "yay!! we have as much sex and type of sex as long we are married"

May 15, 2009#92

Espy

Chibibar said:
My defense for questioning it is that, if this guy is legit (i.e. not sinning while being a priest) then "yay! it is all good" but if he is sinning (i.e. research via having sex himself) then it would invalidate the writing and people would shun his work and thus have negative effect. I am trying to ensure that the research are within the Catholic teaching and thus we all can go "yay!! we have as much sex and type of sex as long we are married"

There are so many weird things in this paragraph I don't even know where to start. Firstly: Why on earth do you care so much about something that matter so little to you? Are you Catholic and your church has said you have to read this book (which could be the case, I don't know if you are or not)? Secondly: How exactly do you plan to find out if he is:"having sex himself". On second thought... I don't even want to know that... :Leyla:

May 15, 2009#93

Chibibar

Espy said:
Chibibar said:

My defense for questioning it is that, if this guy is legit (i.e. not sinning while being a priest) then "yay! it is all good" but if he is sinning (i.e. research via having sex himself) then it would invalidate the writing and people would shun his work and thus have negative effect. I am trying to ensure that the research are within the Catholic teaching and thus we all can go "yay!! we have as much sex and type of sex as long we are married"

Click to expand...

There are so many weird things in this paragraph I don't even know where to start. Firstly: Why on earth do you care so much about something that matter so little to you? Are you Catholic and your church has said you have to read this book? Secondly: How exactly do you plan to find out if he is:"having sex himself". On second thought... I don't even want to know that...

Born Catholic. I guess I am one those "fallen" people. I still follow some basic belief (the core if you will) so I hate to see bad things happen to any religion where the core is good but the execution of it all (lead by other people) turn bad. My current belief is that all religion has a good base core belief that is similar to other belief. It is the people's interpretation and complication muck it all up. So in a way, it is semi personal to me since it ties to my father's root (who passed away and was a Catholic)

If it was anything else like Hindu or Mormon, I wouldn't have care as much personally (since I have not studied them in extend or influence by them.)

as for the 2nd, I don't want to discover it myself regard how is the research is done, but I'm sure someone will go into this more than I.

May 15, 2009#94

HowDroll

May 15, 2009#95

Espy

Chibibar said:
Born Catholic. I guess I am one those "fallen" people. I still follow some basic belief (the core if you will) so I hate to see bad things happen to any religion where the core is good but the execution of it all (lead by other people) turn bad. My current belief is that all religion has a good base core belief that is similar to other belief. It is the people's interpretation and complication muck it all up. So in a way, it is semi personal to me since it ties to my father's root (who passed away and was a Catholic)

Fair enough, but again, taken at face value, how is this book "bad"? You say you see all the "bad" stuff people do in your former religion (and I'm not denying that mind you) and so again, I ask, "How is a religious leader trying to encourage the believers of their faith to have better relationships and sex lives" bad? You talk about research, and he says it's from his time working with married couples and such. He's not saying he has all the answers to everything on earth just that he wants to see married couples have freedom to enjoy their sex lives? And that's automatically a "bad" thing if he wasn't the one having sex? I do not follow this logic at all.

Chibibar said:
as for the 2nd, I don't want to discover it myself regard how is the research is done, but I'm sure someone will go into this more than I.

They probably won't. Because it's not a big deal. Unless he's offering some HORRIBLE advice that will destroy people's lives (and I really doubt even anyone here thinks this is more than basic "love each other a ton and have sex and don't be afraid to enjoy things outside of missionary position") then it really doesn't matter very much.

May 15, 2009#96

zero

Espy said:
Oh hey look, a *insert religious leader of choice* is trying to encourage the believers of their faith to have better relationships and sex lives. OMG everyone freak out and/or overanalyze it. :eyeroll:

I beg you pardon? Who is freaking out here? I'm afraid you missed completely the point...

Here, lemme show you, check this thread, or no, even better, that one.

Far from being exceptions, those threads exemplify the essence of what happens around here. In fact, I'm surprised by your reaction Espy... Really, you see a thread about something seemly trivial, bearing almost no real significance to anyone's life, see everybody jumping at an intense discussion about it and you ask yourself why?

BECAUSE WE ARE FRIGGIN' BORED
really, it's surprising one need to actually say it...

May 15, 2009#97

Actually I was finding Chibi's and Espy's conversation interesting because somehow I agree with both of them.

May 15, 2009#98

Espy

:eyeroll:
I'm sorry I forgot, if you find it ridiculous how up in arms people are getting over something and comment on it then you are WRONG.

(Damn ninja post! This isn't at you Zen, I know you know that but... just being clear and all that).

May 15, 2009#99

zero

Espy said:
:eyeroll:
I'm sorry I forgot, if you find it ridiculous how up in arms people are getting over something and comment on it then you are WRONG.

Well indeed you are! It is revolting how someone can be so up in arms about how people get up in arm about... erm... where were we again?

Seriously... no hard feelings here (unless you're questioning Chaz x JCM, but I suppose you know better)... In fact, I do find this discussion to be quite civil, by halforum standards...

May 15, 2009#100

Espy

No hard feelings at all, in fact, my initial reaction upon glancing over the thread was, "Why the hell is a priest writing a book about this". Then I read the story and it sounds like people are getting upset by him doing something that is actually really good. Encouraging married couples to have better sex lives and even going into they theological reasoning for it, which is a great thing to give to religious people.

Of course, I'm totally open to his advice being HORRIBLE. After all, he's Polish. :tongue:

May 15, 2009#101

Chibibar

Espy said:
No hard feelings at all, in fact, my initial reaction upon glancing over the thread was, "Why the hell is a priest writing a book about this". Then I read the story and it sounds like people are getting upset by him doing something that is actually really good. Encouraging married couples to have better sex lives and even going into they theological reasoning for it, which is a great thing to give to religious people.

Of course, I'm totally open to his advice being HORRIBLE. After all, he's Polish. :tongue:

I don't think the advice is horrible. I am afraid if he also use personal experience while being a priest would invalidate his claim and thus people would go "Can't believe what this sinner priest say... bad bad bad." even if the original message is good.

Personally I think it would be great if this is accepted world wide. I remember that some people was saying other sex other than missionary is sinful (and thus there was sodomy laws)

May 15, 2009#102

Chazwozel

I gotta agree with espy. Excuse the bad analogy but does a therapist have to be mentally ill to treat a patient? Does a marriage counselor have to go through a divorce to see couples? I mean that's in the same vein isn't it. His book is simply counseling couples who might be having issues. I doubt the book goes into detail on how to do double-reverse cowgirl while hanging upside down from a tree.

May 15, 2009#103

Espy

Chibibar said:
Espy said:

No hard feelings at all, in fact, my initial reaction upon glancing over the thread was, "Why the * is a priest writing a book about this". Then I read the story and it sounds like people are getting upset by him doing something that is actually really good. Encouraging married couples to have better sex lives and even going into they theological reasoning for it, which is a great thing to give to religious people.

Of course, I'm totally open to his advice being HORRIBLE. After all, he's Polish. :tongue:

Click to expand...

I don't think the advice is horrible. I am afraid if he also use personal experience while being a priest would invalidate his claim and thus people would go "Can't believe what this sinner priest say... bad bad bad." even if the original message is good.

Okay, I see that that is your concern, and I agree, that would be bad, but I just don't see anything to justify having that concern other than "What if?".
I guess I don't see anything suspicious about his sources.

Thanks Chaz, I just don't see what all the hubbub is about. I can study how cats have sex without having sex with a cat can't I? Not that I would study that... that would be REALLY weird... in fact? Forget I said it.

May 15, 2009#104

Chibibar

Chazwozel said:
I gotta agree with espy. Excuse the bad analogy but does a therapist have to be mentally ill to treat a patient? Does a marriage counselor have to go through a divorce to see couples? I mean that's in the same vein isn't it. His book is simply counseling couples who might be having issues. I doubt the book goes into detail on how to do double-reverse cowgirl while hanging upside down from a tree.

heh.. this reminds me a scene from Firefly about Early. "I think doctors should be shot to know how it feels of being shot"

May 15, 2009#105

Kitty Sinatra

Espy said:
I can study how cats have sex without having sex with a cat can't I?

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY WINDOW :Leyla:

May 15, 2009#106

Gruebeard said:
Espy said:

I can study how cats have sex without having sex with a cat can't I?

Click to expand...

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY WINDOW

*tucks Zen and Satori away in their closet hideyhole*

May 15, 2009#107

Chazwozel

ZenMonkey said:
Gruebeard said:

Espy said:

I can study how cats have sex without having sex with a cat can't I?

Click to expand...

STAY THE smurf AWAY FROM MY WINDOW

Click to expand...

*tucks Zen and Satori away in their closet hideyhole*

I'm in the closet. :drool: :drunk:

May 15, 2009#108

Chazwozel said:
I'm in the closet. :drool:

I always suspected.

May 15, 2009#109

Chazwozel

ZenMonkey said:
Chazwozel said:

I'm in the closet. :drool:

Click to expand...

I always suspected.

Oh damn, touche Zen. Tou-fuckin-che'

I give you an internet for that one.

Now where are my assless leather chaps?

May 15, 2009#110

zero

Chazwozel said:
I doubt the book goes into detail on how to do double-reverse cowgirl while hanging upside down from a tree.

Well, bugger...

May 15, 2009#111

Kitty Sinatra

zero said:
Chazwozel said:

I doubt the book goes into detail on how to do double-reverse cowgirl while hanging upside down from a tree.

Click to expand...

Well, bugger...

yeah it prolly doesn't go into that, either

May 15, 2009#112

Chazwozel said:
I give you an internet for that one.

Woo hoo, my first one! Now what to do with it......

zero said:
Well, bugger...

Probably doesn't instruct on that either.

DAMN YOU GRUEBEARD AND THIS MALFUNCTIONING NINJA ALERT SYSTEM!

May 15, 2009#113

Espy

NOW this thread is cooking! Hell, we take this here bone? Throw it in a pot, add some broth, a potato. Baby, you've got a stew going.

May 15, 2009#114

CrimsonSoul

Anyone need to be humped like a dog? I'm your man!

May 15, 2009#115

Shegokigo

All I'm gonna say is, I'm glad "god" is only pleased when "married couples" have sex. :eyeroll:

May 15, 2009#116

Chazwozel

Shegokigo said:
All I'm gonna say is, I'm glad "god" is only pleased when "married couples" have sex. :eyeroll:

Don't worry, lesbian sex pleases me very much so. :drool:

May 15, 2009#117

CrimsonSoul

Chazwozel said:
Shegokigo said:

All I'm gonna say is, I'm glad "god" is only pleased when "married couples" have sex. :eyeroll:

Click to expand...

Don't worry, lesbian sex pleases me very much so. :drool:

May 15, 2009#118

Silver Jelly

JCM said:
Silver Jelly said:

This is ridiculous. A priest giving sex guidance?

Click to expand...

Way to get my quote out of context.

May 15, 2009#119

@Li3n

shego said:
ll I'm gonna say is, I'm glad "god" is only pleased when "married couples" have sex.

well he did go to all that trouble making it up in the first place... i'd be pissed off too by people making it rather pointless.

May 15, 2009#120

@Li3n said:
shego said:

ll I'm gonna say is, I'm glad "god" is only pleased when "married couples" have sex.

Click to expand...

well he did go to all that trouble making it up in the first place... i'd be pissed off too by people making it rather pointless.

Really? If I were a god who invented sex, I'd be furious that instead of just being thankful, humans decided to make a bunch of laws deciding who can screw whom and how.

(Well, except for pedophilia. I can't imagine any decent god that approves of that shit.)

May 16, 2009#121

JCM

Anyway, the page of priest jokes aside, as long as he´s focusing on relationships and sex counselling, instead of laying down rules, it cant be that bad, can it?

(Well, except for pedophilia. I can't imagine any decent god that approves of that shit.)

This.

May 16, 2009#122

Shegokigo

ZenMonkey said:
(Well, except for pedophilia. I can't imagine any decent god that approves of that poop.)

Well some of the ones preaching Catholic word think it's fine. :slywink:

Great documentery btw.

May 16, 2009#123

@Li3n

@Shegokigo

Yeah, but Catholics are wrong anyhow.

ZenMonkey said:
Really? If I were a god who invented sex, I'd be furious that instead of just being thankful, humans decided to make a bunch of laws deciding who can screw whom and how.

I don't know, considering all the bad stuff that you can get from sex, even after all the millennia of advancement in medicine (how is Calleja btw?) we had i'd say it wasn't ever intended to be a free for all...

ZenMonkey said:
(Well, except for pedophilia. I can't imagine any decent god that approves of that shit.)

Pedobear is a indecent god. :twisted:

May 16, 2009#124

Espy

@Li3n said:
ZenMonkey said:

Really? If I were a god who invented sex, I'd be furious that instead of just being thankful, humans decided to make a bunch of laws deciding who can screw whom and how.

Click to expand...

I don't know, considering all the bad stuff that you can get from sex, even after all the millennia of advancement in medicine (how is Calleja btw?) we had i'd say it wasn't ever intended to be a free for all...

Thats an intriguing point.

May 16, 2009#125

Shegokigo

Espy said:
@Li3n said:

ZenMonkey said:

Really? If I were a god who invented sex, I'd be furious that instead of just being thankful, humans decided to make a bunch of laws deciding who can screw whom and how.

Click to expand...

I don't know, considering all the bad stuff that you can get from sex, even after all the millennia of advancement in medicine (how is Calleja btw?) we had i'd say it wasn't ever intended to be a free for all...

Click to expand...

Thats an intriguing point.

No, it's not. It's not even an intelligent nor thought out point.

May 16, 2009#126

Silver Jelly

Shegokigo said:
Espy said:

@Li3n said:

ZenMonkey said:

Really? If I were a god who invented sex, I'd be furious that instead of just being thankful, humans decided to make a bunch of laws deciding who can screw whom and how.

Click to expand...

I don't know, considering all the bad stuff that you can get from sex, even after all the millennia of advancement in medicine (how is Calleja btw?) we had i'd say it wasn't ever intended to be a free for all...

Click to expand...

Thats an intriguing point.

Click to expand...

No, it's not. It's not even an intelligent nor thought out point.

Thou Shalt Not Eat!

Considering all the bad stuff you can get from food...

May 16, 2009#127

Espy

Silver Jelly said:
Considering all the bad stuff you can get from food...

And yet we have hundred of thousands of rules for various foods and how to safely eat them, store them, etc. Do you really want to compare sex to eating?

May 16, 2009#128

Kitty Sinatra

Well, I hunger for both food and sex, and find both quite satisfying (sometimes, anyway. Sometimes my belly feels all weird after)

May 16, 2009#129

Espy

Gruebeard said:
Well, I hunger for both food and sex, and find both quite satisfying (sometimes, anyway. Sometimes my belly feels all weird after)

Touche' my good man, touche'!

For the record, I don't give a shit who has sex with whom and what they do or what they get. I do like the speculative discussion Zen started about why a god would create sex though. I actually think sex can be a bit like food, both can be fantastic and both can mess you up, both can be fun to do and both can make things come out of you that you never wanted.

May 16, 2009#130

JCM

Why god created sexual pleasure? As an incentive for us to get up and procreate, after all, how many babies would be born if no biological lust, pleasure nor orgams came along with sex?

Espy said:
Silver Jelly said:

Considering all the bad stuff you can get from food...

Click to expand...

And yet we have hundred of thousands of rules for various foods and how to safely eat them, store them, etc. Do you really want to compare sex to eating?

True, most rules about sex (or wether you can get any) are mostly religious and cultural taboos.

I don't know, considering all the bad stuff that you can get from sex, even after all the millennia of advancement in medicine (how is Calleja btw?) we had i'd say it wasn't ever intended to be a free for all...

Like everything in life, its a matter of chosing well, and still being careful, just like one could get food poisoning or sick if he were to grab any fruit on the ground after 15 beers.

May 16, 2009#131

Kitty Sinatra

also, most gods seem to put a limit on food - Hindus can't eat beef, it's gotta be kosher for jews. There's something about fish and Lent for Christians.

Gods didn't make eating a free for all. It makes sense they'd put limits on sex, too.

May 16, 2009#132

Shegokigo said:
ZenMonkey said:

(Well, except for pedophilia. I can't imagine any decent god that approves of that poop.)

Click to expand...

Well some of the ones preaching Catholic word think it's fine. :slywink:

You've...seen gods preaching Catholic word? :eek:

But anyway, I think some people in this thread (not you, Shego, I'm just taking the piss) are conflating "god" and "religion." Of course most of the world does that anyway...

May 16, 2009#133

Kitty Sinatra

ZenMonkey said:
But anyway, I think some people in this thread (not you, Shego, I'm just taking the piss) are conflating "god" and "religion."

If you mean me, Zen, as I'm not being terribly serious I'm not worrying about making the distinction.

May 16, 2009#134

zero

Shegokigo said:
Well some of the ones preaching Catholic word think it's fine. :slywink:

Unless you're implying that the incidence of pedophilia is higher among Catholic preachers, I fail to see the point...

May 16, 2009#135

@Li3n

Silver Jelly said:
Shegokigo said:

Espy said:

[quote="@Li3n":32mu4jd3]
I don't know, considering all the bad stuff that you can get from sex, even after all the millennia of advancement in medicine (how is Calleja btw?) we had i'd say it wasn't ever intended to be a free for all...

Click to expand...

Thats an intriguing point.

Click to expand...

No, it's not. It's not even an intelligent nor thought out point.

Thou Shalt Not Eat!

Considering all the bad stuff you can get from food...[/quote:32mu4jd3]

If god wanted you to eat salmonella he wouldn't have invented typhoid fever... (btw, none of the above where meant to be take too seriously...)

Zen said:
But anyway, I think some people in this thread (not you, Shego, I'm just taking the piss) are conflating "god" and "religion."

Bah, agnostics need to take a side already and stop trying to have it both ways...

(might work better replacing "religion" with "what the people in charge of your church say"... mouthful, i know)

May 16, 2009#136

@Li3n said:
(might work better replacing "religion" with "what the people in charge of your church say"... mouthful, i know)

To my mind they're pretty much the same thing. I don't mean that in an anti-religious way. Religion can be a good thing. But as soon as faith and belief become codified in any way, the discussion about "what god wants" changes significantly and often becomes "what the church wants." (Temple, shul, mosque, etc. etc.)

May 16, 2009#137

@Li3n

IMO, if god exists then faith and belief are codified by (it), and what the church says is rather immaterial... (if i remember right that's actually how it works for us, with individual churches, priests etc. being able to have different views on some stuff as long as they respect the parts that where decided by the ecumenical councils or something like that).

May 16, 2009#138

Denbrought

Do you really think that, lets assume the existence of God/s, a God's thought process goes "ewww pedos" or "ewww" anything? If they didn't like something, they would rationally just not let it exist at all--if they acted rationally, that is. Mayhaps the God takes pleasure in the suffering of its creations, and that is the reason for our belligerent and cruel nature? Then it would go the opposite, cherishing humanity's depraved actions. Or it just doesn't give a shit about what happens, it's all fun either way.

So if a God entity were to exist I'd like to think if it as an ADHD child in the playground of creation, throwing together shit at random just because there's nothing better to do around, not giving a crap about the actual results.

May 16, 2009#139

Being a spiritual atheist I can't really answer that. :rofl:

May 16, 2009#140

Denbrought

ZenMonkey said:
Being a spiritual atheist I can't really answer that.

Being atheist doesn't mean your imagination is gone, does it? Mine isn't >_>

Then again, it must be the age

May 16, 2009#141

No, it means I don't have much interest in speculating about what a unicorn might look like.

I love it when people accuse you of having no imagination if you don't believe in something. Like when someone said I had no imagination because I think "aliens" is a lazy, tired cliché of an explanation for phenomena that might have fascinating natural explanations. I see incredible adaptations of insects, for example, and my mind spirals around evolution, biology, and all the amazing ways that these flies have learned how to mug ants for food. But according to some, if I don't see it as "God," then I have no imagination.

That said, I have no problem if someone sees the same thing and says "Aren't God's creatures amazing?" (As long as they keep it out of science textbooks, but that's a whole other can of posts.) I don't begrudge people the comfort of their faith.

May 16, 2009#142

Silver Jelly

Denbrought said:
Do you really think that, lets assume the existence of God/s, a God's thought process goes "ewww pedos" or "ewww" anything? If they didn't like something, they would rationally just not let it exist at all--if they acted rationally, that is. Mayhaps the God takes pleasure in the suffering of its creations, and that is the reason for our belligerent and cruel nature? Then it would go the opposite, cherishing humanity's depraved actions. Or it just doesn't give a poop about what happens, it's all fun either way.

So if a God entity were to exist I'd like to think if it as an ADHD child in the playground of creation, throwing together poop at random just because there's nothing better to do around, not giving a crap about the actual results.

Well, I've always seen God as a programmer, not as a writer. An origin that creates the set of rules in wich our existance... wel, exists. Well, it's a little more complex than that, but I imagine he doesn't want to interfere, at least not directly. What we do is up to us. (In this light, the teachings of Jesus become a way of telling us the way he'd want us to be... but he can't force us to do that: if the creation is just a puppet play, it has no sense. Creatoin, destruction and all that's in between become senseless).

I'm trying to explain a "diet" version of some of my religious ideas, but they don't look especially well thought nor working in their diet version.

May 16, 2009#143

Denbrought

I guess that's you. I find speculation to be a very stimulating endeavour. I'd understand someone not wanting to do it if their views weren't set strong enough to defend them from internal debate, but otherwise it's a nice topic. Even if cats don't speak, we have icanhascheezburger emotes

Also... I don't think I've ever had someone accuse me of not having imagination for not believing in something. Rather, I'm called on how much more complicate it all is if you don't take a God-like thing at the top of the pyramid for simpleness' sake.

May 16, 2009#144

I just don't have any interest in what "God" might be like. It's not an all-encompassing "I don't like to speculate" disorder. (I just reread my previous post and realized I didn't edit it as I meant to; unicorn should not be in there. :rofl:

)

Denbrought said:
Also... I don't think I've ever had someone accuse me of not having imagination for not believing in something.

I find it pretty weird, myself. But it's happened to me more than once.

May 17, 2009#145

@Li3n

"Don't eat from that tree, or bad things will happen" => bad thing happen now... it's all there in the manual people.

No, it means I don't have much interest in speculating about what a unicorn might look like.

It's a horse with a horn on it's head...

Being a spiritual atheist I can't really answer that.

i don't think that's what you would be called...

May 17, 2009#146

@Li3n said:
i don't think that's what you would be called...

From the reading I've been doing I'm finding it's almost exactly what I would be called.

May 17, 2009#147

@Li3n

ZenMonkey said:
@Li3n said:

i don't think that's what you would be called...

Click to expand...

From the reading I've been doing I'm finding it's almost exactly what I would be called.

I don't know... there are plenty of religions that don't have gods per se (e.g. Buddhism).

May 17, 2009#148

@Li3n said:
I don't know... there are plenty of religions that don't have gods per se (e.g. Buddhism).

Actually Buddhism is often cited in writings about spiritual atheism, I've found, because the Buddha encouraged people to focus on this world and this life. (I know I'm oversimplifying; no offense intended towards Buddhists.)

But my point is not "I'm trying to find a religion." My point is I've found my own beliefs to be in tune with the spiritual atheism viewpoint. Basically I made up that term for myself and then after some research found that "spiritual atheism" is in fact an existing belief system.

May 18, 2009#149

@Li3n

Isn't Buddhism the one that say the world is all an illusion?

And just because it exists doesn't make it any less silly... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... Skepticism

May 18, 2009#150

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that what I believe in is silly and comparing it to a TV trope? I need to be clear on this before I respond.

May 18, 2009#151

@Li3n

Nah, i find your definition (or at least the words use) of your belief silly... (and looking it up it sounds more and more like a form of agnosticism).

May 18, 2009#152

I haven't defined my belief for you at all. You have no idea what I personally believe, especially if you think I'm an agnostic.

So I'm finished having this conversation with you if all you care to do is make dismissive, reductive assumptions and say "that's silly" like a 3-year-old.

May 18, 2009#153

@Li3n

What's a name if not a short description of something?!

Sorry if i made it seem i'm dismissing your belief, i'm not, i just find the actual words you use to describe it silly... like i find negative profit to be a silly thing.

As for the agnostic thing... did i not say that was based on looking up spiritual atheism on the internet?!

May 18, 2009#154

Enresshou

@Li3n said:
What's a name if not a short description of something?!

Sorry if i made it seem i'm dismissing your belief, i'm not, i just find the actual words you use to describe it silly... like i find negative profit to be a silly thing.

As for the agnostic thing... did i not say that was based on looking up spiritual atheism on the internet?!

Personally, I do believe a name is a short description of something. Spiritual atheist is exactly that: an atheist who has spiritual aspects to their life. I'd classify myself as such, because--although I'd like to believe in the supernatural, and am completely fascinated by the concept of ghosts and the paranormal--I have such a high standard of proof that belief is impossible for me.

That being said, there are spiritual aspects of my life. I never felt any sort of stirring or joy in church or in praying, but the ocean makes me feel at peace and in the presence of something beautiful. The awe I never found in God I find in the sheer beauty of life, and trying to understand it in the laboratory.

Spirituality and religion are two different things to me; and spirituality involves, but does not necessitate, religion.

May 18, 2009#155

@Li3n

Of course words are descriptives... that's the whole point of language. It was rhetorical...

I have such a high standard of proof that belief is impossible for me.

Unless ur a fan of the whole "nothing is real, it's all in our heads" thing, you don't believe in something that's proven... because something that's proven simply is (of course even then you can debate the merits of the proof, but that's a different animal). Also, agnosticism is all about the "impossible to prove" thing... that's why there's both Atheist and Theist agnosticism...

As for finding joy in the ocean or other stuff... i tend to call that being normal... (and curious for the lab thing).

May 18, 2009#156

JCM

Anyway, the only ok religious guide to sex that is worth a read

Sadly, most typical americans-only-have-a-wife-so-others-must-never-have-had-sex only skip to the latter half of the book, on poisitions and consorts, and skip shitloads of important tips on hygiene (specially down there), making yourself smell/look/taste/feel good (down there too) and simple tips on handling your sex partner.

Sadly, it seems the indians were averse on women receiving oral sex, or anal, so you´ll find little on that, except that it should only be done with whores.

May 18, 2009#157

Chazwozel

JCM said:
Sadly, most typical americans-only-have-a-wife-so-others-must-never-have-had-sex only skip to the latter half of the book, on poisitions and consorts, and skip shitloads of important tips on hygiene (specially down there), making yourself smell/look/taste/feel good (down there too) and simple tips on handling your sex partner.

I'd like to nominate that for the most ignorant and moronic statement of the year award. I don't want to start another flame war, but sometimes I honestly think you're the amalgamation of a thousand chimps behind a thousand computers that just vomit up blanket garble.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to imply about 'Americans'? That we're dirty? "Only have a wife so others must never have had sex?" It's like trying to decipher cave-man talk. Oh I see, you're claiming that Americans don't see other cultures as being sexual? We're unworldly. What a load of garbage. Have you personally interviewed every American who's read the Kama Sutra? Do you have the numbers for making a statement that most Americans skip over the 'hygienic parts' of it? Are you implying that Americans smell, look, taste, feel? bad because they under your assumption they don't read those parts of the book? So, pretty simply, you're rolling out with this: Americans are uncultured about world-wide sexual practices and they're poor lovers as a result. That's a pretty bold claim based completely in ignorance and prejudice.

May 18, 2009#158

Silver Jelly

If he's brazilian, isn't he an american too?

May 18, 2009#159

Espy

Silver Jelly said:
If he's brazilian, isn't he an american too?

Technically yes, but the common usage of the term "American" is generally referring to citizens of the U.S. It's not technically correct but in most countries it's what is generally implied, hence it's a safe assumption to take it as such.

May 18, 2009#160

Silver Jelly said:
If he's brazilian, isn't he an american too?

Nicely done!

As to the Kama Sutra, I haven't been able to get past page 2. Not because I'm worried about health or good hygiene - I'm just done.

I did look at some of the stuff later on and won't do it because I'm not double jointed.

Plus I don't have fur covered stilts.

Yes, I know there's no fur covered stilts in the book. That's why it's a joke.

May 18, 2009#161

Chazwozel

Silver Jelly said:
If he's brazilian, isn't he an american too?

He used American in "U.S. citizen" sense.

May 18, 2009#162

sixpackshaker

There are priest that have been married, and a few that are married. The Catholic Church uses Deacons. They are normally married men that later felt the calling to serve. They go through seminary, but they do not take the final vows to be priests. They can only become priests after the death of their spouse. So normally when an older man becomes a priest it is through this path.

The married priests come from Anglican Churches that have voted to leave their old church and join the Roman Catholic Church. I think in Texas alone there have been some 14 churches to do that. Since the Anglican Priests can be married, when they moved over, they got to remain priests and keep their spouses.

May 18, 2009#163

Silver Jelly

Chazwozel said:
Silver Jelly said:

If he's brazilian, isn't he an american too?

Click to expand...

He used American in "U.S. citizen" sense.

Yeah, I was just trying to be clever.

May 18, 2009#164

Chazwozel

Silver Jelly said:
Chazwozel said:

[quote="Silver Jelly":35xjzejn]If he's brazilian, isn't he an american too?

Click to expand...

He used American in "U.S. citizen" sense.

Yeah, I was just trying to be clever.[/quote:35xjzejn]

Oh and: In before JCM posts back with a million pictures of llamas and Ogre.

May 18, 2009#165

First!

May 18, 2009#166

Chazwozel

Edrondol said:
First!

May 18, 2009#167

JCM

You beat me to it!

Chazwozel said:
Blablabla from Mr "Yes-wife"

:drool:

Why the fuck would I listen to somene who doesnt have a spine to argue with his own wife, yet whines in forums and leads the drama/rage department?

Technically yes, but the common usage of the term "American" is generally referring to citizens of the U.S. It's not technically correct but in most countries it's what is generally implied, hence it's a safe assumption to take it as such.

This.

Although I speak of the countless film and abridged articles on Kama Sutra, its like they cant grasp that its a huge bookfull of stuff, instead all they do is concentrate on the sex positions. If one could show some film/documentary version showing the other 3/4ths of it, I´d be glad to change that view, but for the most part of it, its just viewed as a tantric sex guide.

Which is a pity, as far as foreplay, hygine, behavior and even having a relationship (without having to be spineless and pretend to agree with her), its a pretty good book to read, not an all-emcompassing manual, but a nice little further reading.

May 18, 2009#168

Chazwozel

JCM said:
You beat me to it!

Chazwozel said:

Blablabla from Mr "Yes-wife"

Click to expand...

:drool:

Why the smurf would I listen to somene who doesnt have a spine to argue with his own wife, yet whines in forums and leads the drama/rage department?

Technically yes, but the common usage of the term "American" is generally referring to citizens of the U.S. It's not technically correct but in most countries it's what is generally implied, hence it's a safe assumption to take it as such.

Click to expand...

This.

Although I speak of the countless film and abridged articles on Kama Sutra, its like they cant grasp that its a huge bookfull of stuff, instead all they do is concentrate on the sex positions. If one could show some film/documentary version showing the other 3/4ths of it, I´d be glad to change that view, but for the most part of it, its just viewed as a tantric sex guide.

Which is a pity, as far as foreplay, hygine, behavior and even having a relationship (without having to be spineless and pretend to agree with her), its a pretty good book to read, not an all-emcompassing manual, but a nice little further reading.

ugh... the personal attacks. Always fun. Maybe I should take a chapter from the JCM book of philosophy and coax ugly girls into threesomes =with my equally ugly girlfriend. Film and articles do not account for "most" Americans. If that's what you were talking about then learn to articulate better instead of coming off as a third world uninformed piece of shit.

May 18, 2009#169

Espy

You two should just make out already.

Or have a fight to the death, PPV of course.

May 18, 2009#170

Chazwozel

Espy said:
You two should just make out already.

Or have a fight to the death, PPV of course.

I'd love to just punch him in the fucking head sometimes, but then he'd call the Brazilian police on me. Being they're so much more humane than U.S. police, I'd expect to come home in a body bag after three days of "police interrogation". Truth be told, JCM is alright when he's not having delusions of grandeur on his status as some worldly guru, but I can only stand so much bullshit before I have to call it out.

May 18, 2009#171

JCM

Of course Chaz, on the internet you are a KungFu master with a 20-inch penis and Mensa-like IQ who can defeat everyone.
After all, one´s life must be so pathetic that losing to a kid at a game means running away from the forum with drama, and yes, it must hurt needing to punch anything to compensate for a sad existence?

I need to photoshop a llama onto that cover

Chazwozel said:
JCM said:

You beat me to it!

Chazwozel said:

Blablabla from Mr "Yes-wife"

Click to expand...

:drool:

Why the smurf would I listen to somene who doesnt have a spine to argue with his own wife, yet whines in forums and leads the drama/rage department?

Technically yes, but the common usage of the term "American" is generally referring to citizens of the U.S. It's not technically correct but in most countries it's what is generally implied, hence it's a safe assumption to take it as such.

Click to expand...

This.

Although I speak of the countless film and abridged articles on Kama Sutra, its like they cant grasp that its a huge bookfull of stuff, instead all they do is concentrate on the sex positions. If one could show some film/documentary version showing the other 3/4ths of it, I´d be glad to change that view, but for the most part of it, its just viewed as a tantric sex guide.

Which is a pity, as far as foreplay, hygine, behavior and even having a relationship (without having to be spineless and pretend to agree with her), its a pretty good book to read, not an all-emcompassing manual, but a nice little further reading.

Click to expand...

Whine!!

Aww, Mr Blob needs to say yes to get anything from wifey´s feelings is hurt?

Of course everything all the countless girls in pics Ive posted and you can never get is ugly.
Just like a videogame you can never play is bad.
A little kid you can never beat at a game must suck.
Art you never draw is bad.
A life you will never be able to lead is all lies!

So pathetic, really. But I do await more fun, the personal attack bit did make me spit coke, coming from the spineless shite that started with the ersonal attacks in the first place.

I await more drama :popcorn:

May 18, 2009#172

Wasabi Poptart

Espy said:
You two should just make out already.

Or have a fight to the death, PPV of course.

Annnnnnnd...... action!

May 18, 2009#173

Chazwozel

yawn... anything new Julio? I can almost predict your responses at this point.

May 18, 2009#174

JCM

Nah, I´ve gotta go out soon.

God, I´d enter it just to record the whole taunting bit, sure I might not win in a physical fight with a blob, but it´ll be great for a awsuit and setting up a youtube page.

DramaLLama said:
"I KNOW KARATE YOU NERDS!! I AM STROOONGAAAARGGGH!!!*
*except for the wife, I meekly say yes to whatever she says, even when she wants to peg me with a dildo
*and I need two cop buddies and a tazer to take down anyone

May 18, 2009#175

Chazwozel

May 18, 2009#176

JCM

May 18, 2009#177

Chazwozel

JCM said:

I'm not Puerto Rican.

May 18, 2009#178

JCM

May 18, 2009#179

Chazwozel

JCM said:

And there you have it folks, the monkeys have nothing to write about.

May 18, 2009#180

JCM

Chazwozel said:
There you have it folks, people dont want to play with the wife-pegged-him-in-the-arse jock blob.

Werent the llama just posting pics?

Anyway, again I´ll leave you the last post, as I know that KARATEMASTER blobs and their blobbish wives cant live without it, and I´d hate you leave the forum again, and its so important to you. :slywink:

May 18, 2009#181

The funny thing is that neither of them really care what the other thinks, but they both keep at it so that they get in the last word.

Frankly I'm loving this. The Chaz/JCM battles are frightfully funny.

And God DAMN does Julio have a lot of llama pictures!

May 18, 2009#182

Chazwozel

Edrondol said:
The funny thing is that neither of them really care what the other thinks, but they both keep at it so that they get in the last word.

Frankly I'm loving this. The Chaz/JCM battles are frightfully funny.

And God DAMN does Julio have a lot of llama pictures!

Alright, I'll let the baby have his bottle. After all, coaxing an intelligent argument out of JCM is damn near impossible.

May 18, 2009#183

May 18, 2009#184

Chazwozel

ThatNickGuy said:

Don't get too smug about internet dueling there, chief...

May 18, 2009#185

Chazwozel said:
ThatNickGuy said:

Click to expand...

Don't get too smug about internet dueling there, chief...

:waah:

I just don't have the great capabilities to be an internet douche like everybody else.

May 18, 2009#186

Chazwozel

ThatNickGuy said:
Chazwozel said:

ThatNickGuy said:

Click to expand...

Don't get too smug about internet dueling there, chief...

Click to expand...

:waah:

I just don't have the great capabilities to be an internet douche like everybody else.

Sure you do. Let me just dig up your internet suicide note...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4246

May 18, 2009#187

Enough.

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