Apple whips out some major dickery (maybe)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Necronic

Staff member
So one of the cool things with the Palm Pre was that it would sync with your itunes. Turns out Apple didn't like that and in their latest update broke that ability.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple- ... ,8267.html

To me this is absurd, especially considering that one of the great features of my iphone is that I can sync it with my MICROSOFT OUTLOOK. I don't understand for the life of me why they would do this other than shutting down competition. Well, there was this one thing in the comments. Could someone please explain this to me? Like I'm 12.
 
Apple is the kid that gets a few laughs with a dirty joke then moves on to yelling out ethnic slurs at the bus stop.

Does someone happen to have a link to their latest issue with Microsoft advertising?
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

The rumour is that the Palm Pre essentially hacked a code loophole fooling iTunes into thinking thinking the Pre was an iPhone, and was advertising "compatibility" as a selling point.

No reason for Apple to stand for that.

-- Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:29 pm --

Necronic said:
Cat said:
Apple is the kid that gets a few laughs with a dirty joke then moves on to yelling out ethnic slurs at the bus stop.

Does someone happen to have a link to their latest issue with Microsoft advertising?

Yup, here you go.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple- ... ,8268.html

Looks like they got a little butthurt
For a company with such a strong sense of presentation, it's a bit funny how dumb they are when it comes to PR.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

TeKeo said:
The rumour is that the Palm Pre essentially hacked a code loophole fooling iTunes into thinking thinking the Pre was an iPhone, and was advertising "compatibility" as a selling point.

No reason for Apple to stand for that.
Ah, this could be interesting.
 
C

Cuyval Dar

Wrong. This is lockout, plain and simple. Despite it being slow, glitchy, and bloated, iTunes is used by a huge number of people worldwide. This is locking out a competitor.
Apple is using its monopolistic position as both a hardware and software vendor to ensure domination of its products.

Fortunately, US copyright law allows reverse-engineering to spread a product (legally purchased, or in this case, EULA signed) to as many platforms as possible.

Where is the justice? You see the European Union and US State Department screaming for blood at IBM, Intel and Microsoft. I guess that its only a 1-way street.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Cuyval Dar said:
Wrong. This is lockout, plain and simple. Despite it being slow, glitchy, and bloated, iTunes is used by a huge number of people worldwide. This is locking out a competitor.
Leaving aside whether this is actually the protected form of reverse-engineering (that they're selling the exploit makes it a little grey), there is nothing that legally obligates Apple to oblige Palm by keeping the exploit working.

Even were the DoJ to get involved and force Apple to open their software up to 3rd-party development, they would probably also force Palm to scrap their exploit and buy a development license from Apple.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

TeKeo said:
Cuyval Dar said:
Wrong. This is lockout, plain and simple. Despite it being slow, glitchy, and bloated, iTunes is used by a huge number of people worldwide. This is locking out a competitor.
Leaving aside whether this is actually the protected form of reverse-engineering (that they're selling the exploit makes it a little grey), there is nothing that legally obligates Apple to oblige Palm by keeping the exploit working.

Even were the DoJ to get involved and force Apple to open their software up to 3rd-party development, they would probably also force Palm to scrap their exploit and buy a development license from Apple.
I doubt anything Palm did was illegal. All they did was have the Pre send an iPod product ID to iTunes when when it tried to sync.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Shakey said:
TeKeo said:
Cuyval Dar said:
Wrong. This is lockout, plain and simple. Despite it being slow, glitchy, and bloated, iTunes is used by a huge number of people worldwide. This is locking out a competitor.
Leaving aside whether this is actually the protected form of reverse-engineering (that they're selling the exploit makes it a little grey), there is nothing that legally obligates Apple to oblige Palm by keeping the exploit working.

Even were the DoJ to get involved and force Apple to open their software up to 3rd-party development, they would probably also force Palm to scrap their exploit and buy a development license from Apple.
I doubt anything Palm did was illegal. All they did was have the Pre send an iPod product ID to iTunes when when it tried to sync.
No, it's not illegal, but if the DoJ forces Apple to open their software to 3rd-party development, depending on how that happens, it could become actionable in a civil suit if Palm then doesn't apply for a 3rd-party development license from Apple. Just as reverse-engineering software is legal, so are anti-tamper measures.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Apple's new logo:

It Just Works*

* By "it" Apple only refers to apple products and apple software and their interactions together. If an apple product or software is ever to be in the presence of any other product then it shall no longer be held to this standard.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Apple are cunts for a big number of reasons - the fact that they actively prevent Mac OS X from being used on a PC (lawsuits) just goes to show they are. Microsoft may not be much better, but MS has had that bad reputation for over a decade and Apple is wrongful perceived as being more reliable when, in fact, they're WORSE than Microsoft. They charge an arm and a leg, abuse their monopoly in certain areas a lot more than Microsoft, play dirty games as well, deceive their customers, rip off their customers, etc. etc.

Let me put it like this: if Microsoft had dared release an OS that looks the same and works the same like Apple have been doing for the past 6 years, and charged that much money, people would have been bitching for months yet Apple gets away with it. And how about the many MANY laws Apple is breaking all over the world. Bundling iTunes and a bunch of other software with their Macs, Mac OS X being forced to be bought with an Apple computer, etc. They get away with it because they're the "little" one but it's pathetic to then see Mac fanatics bitch about MS when their own idol is worse!
 
J

JCM

Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Icarus said:
Apple are cunts for a big number of reasons - the fact that they actively prevent Mac OS X from being used on a PC (lawsuits) just goes to show they are. Microsoft may not be much better, but MS has had that bad reputation for over a decade and Apple is wrongful perceived as being more reliable when, in fact, they're WORSE than Microsoft.
Their products are reliable, its just the company is not ethical.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

TeKeo said:
No, it's not illegal, but if the DoJ forces Apple to open their software to 3rd-party development, depending on how that happens, it could become actionable in a civil suit if Palm then doesn't apply for a 3rd-party development license from Apple. Just as reverse-engineering software is legal, so are anti-tamper measures.
There is no 3rd party development to be done here though. It's just letting other media players sync with iTunes. iTunes specifically looks for only apple products and will not sync with anything else. If they open that up, it's done. Palm doesn't have to do anything and there is no reason for Apple to license anything. The only thing they may have to think about licensing is their DRM, which isn't going to happen.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

JCM said:
Icarus said:
Apple are ham sandwich for a big number of reasons - the fact that they actively prevent Mac OS X from being used on a PC (lawsuits) just goes to show they are. Microsoft may not be much better, but MS has had that bad reputation for over a decade and Apple is wrongful perceived as being more reliable when, in fact, they're WORSE than Microsoft.
Their products are reliable, its just the company is not ethical.

I used to think this, and in certain circumstances (like apple software on apple hardware) their products are really reliable. However, whenever they have to deal with another company, they sometimes have pretty bad reliability issues. Be it iTunes or Quicktime on a windows PC (massive memory leaks) or Apps for my iPhone (all sorts of freezing issues).
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Shakey said:
If they open that up, it's done. Palm doesn't have to do anything and there is no reason for Apple to license anything.
Besides all the money they could make if the DoJ accepts a licensing solution?

It depends on what the DoJ determines is adequate as "opening it up". If I were Apple, and the subject to a DoJ anti-competition inquiry, the first thing I would offer is a 3rd-party licensing program. What have they got to lose at that point?
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

JCM said:
Icarus said:
Apple are ham sandwich for a big number of reasons - the fact that they actively prevent Mac OS X from being used on a PC (lawsuits) just goes to show they are. Microsoft may not be much better, but MS has had that bad reputation for over a decade and Apple is wrongful perceived as being more reliable when, in fact, they're WORSE than Microsoft.
Their products are reliable, its just the company is not ethical.
Their software is actually not that reliable and still has major compatibility issues. In our office, we've had more Mac software issues than on our PC. Example:

1- massive problems concerning PC servers. Since all servers ARE PC servers, this is a huge problem.
-- files with more than 16 letters (or so) are shortened on a Mac. This means that you have to rename the files on a Mac (PCs can read files made on a Mac fine). Talk about inconvenient ...

2- MASSIVE network problems. Mounted network drives disappearing, refusing to be mounted, constantly losing connection, shared folders on the server not even appearing in the list, etc. etc. None of our PCs have had any problems whatsoever with sharing folders.

3- A lot of things are slower on a $3000 iMac than on a $500 PC. :facepalm:

4- Oh, here's a fun one: CDs REFUSING TO BE EJECTED! We've lost HOURS because the fancy Mac OS refused to eject and just said "fuck you" to us. Since the DVD drive has no actual button because Apple are such cunts they think a button would harm the style, you're stuck with hoping Mac OS X will eject it.

(Incidentally, not a SINGLE internal DVD drive has ever survived more than a year in ANY Mac in our office (mostly Mac G5s from several generations). How much does a proper DVD drive cost again, Apple? You'd expect some proper hardware for the ridiculous prices charged! Right now, every Mac has an external LaCie or Sony drive as a result.)

5- Not software but I like to add this one as well because it annoyed me so much at the time: Their keyboards are hideously expensive yet you can't even open them yourself if you accidentally poor something on them unless you have one of those rarely-used keys. One of my co-workers pored soda on it which is very sticky. Even a $5 keyboard can be opened at the back and dried out but the Mac keyboard can't be. It uses a special key to be opened and of course, no-one has one. Result: $80 for another keyboard.

6- Mac OS has to be rebooted more often than Windows Vista when using Adobe programs. On ALL Macs, font issues arise all the time which requires a reboot. Actually, font management on Mac OS X is shoddy to say the least ...

-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:13 pm --

Necronic said:
JCM said:
Icarus said:
Apple are ham sandwich for a big number of reasons - the fact that they actively prevent Mac OS X from being used on a PC (lawsuits) just goes to show they are. Microsoft may not be much better, but MS has had that bad reputation for over a decade and Apple is wrongful perceived as being more reliable when, in fact, they're WORSE than Microsoft.
Their products are reliable, its just the company is not ethical.

I used to think this, and in certain circumstances (like apple software on apple hardware) their products are really reliable. However, whenever they have to deal with another company, they sometimes have pretty bad reliability issues. Be it iTunes or Quicktime on a windows PC (massive memory leaks) or Apps for my iPhone (all sorts of freezing issues).
Yeah that's very true. Anyone who has used Quicktime in the early 90's when it used to run in Windows 3.1 may remember the TONS of issues.

Incidentally, Quicktime was primarily aimed at the PC market. A lot of Windows games used the technology but thanks to Apple's typical crappy backward-compatibily, there were massive problems when you had a newer version. The only solution was removing the new version and reinstalling the old one in most cases. Later on, you even had to install TWO versions. Not only was the software very buggy as well (games used to crash all the time due to Quicktime errors) but it was a pain to use.

iTunes was just as bad. A simplistic and shallow program that used 3 times more memory than Media Player or Winamp, when both of these had FAR more features. Unforgivable. But the fact that music would stutter and skip the moment you were even just saving a file or loading a program, was totally unacceptable. And the fact that Apple were such cunts by forcing you to download AND install both iTunes and Quicktime when you just wanted Quicktime annoyed me even more at the time. It took them more than a year to make iTunes optional.

Basically, not a single piece of software from Apple on the PC has worked like it should. I bet that if Mac OS X had to be made for PC, it would be a disaster as well. It's easy to have a big mouth but when you got to support more than a handful of hardware combinations, things aren't exactly so easy, are they, Apple?
 
J

JCM

Apple software for PC is basically a name for bloatware.

I use Floola to get music in my ipod, the exe runs off the ipod itself, and its damn light.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

First off, let me just say I am not a hater, I like Apple products, I like my iPhone, I like my gfs Macbook. If I ever buy a laptop it will be a mac. That said...

One of my big beefs with their attitude on high quality equipment is compatibility. Microsoft/windows doesn't do nearly as good as an apple when apple gets top down control over all the parts associated, but as soon as apple is held to the same standard Microsoft (ie needs to play well with others) Apple drops the ball.

Many Microsoft products are effectively a necessity on apple computers, like MS Office, and not because they are in some way forced on you, like iTunes is for any iphone/ipod owners (unless you jailbreak them, which doesn't really count) but because they are the best possible product for what they do. Microsoft XL or Microsoft Access or Powerpoint are pretty much the standard for the best general versions of what they do. Yeah, there are lots of alternatives to XL, like Statistica or JMP or SPSS, but they are far less general and fail in many areas outside of their specific use, although within their specific use they are much much better.

On the other hand what Apple software products does any PC user use because its the best? Maybe iTunes depending on the person (I actually like it, but my computer can handle the bloat). Quicktime is about up there with Realplayer in terms of quality (if not lower). Safari? Not a bad browser, but there are plenty of others that are better. That to me shows a huge failing in their abilities as a company, especially when compared to Microsoft.
 

Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Necronic said:
One of my big beefs with their attitude on high quality equipment is compatibility. Microsoft/windows doesn't do nearly as good as an apple when apple gets top down control over all the parts associated, but as soon as apple is held to the same standard Microsoft (ie needs to play well with others) Apple drops the ball.
Couldn't agree more, both in the micro and the macro senses of "compatibility." For example, so many times on the WoW forums for Mac support (which is probably the best computer-related customer support I've ever gotten), I see people asking about this bug or that feature and the reply is basically that Apple doesn't have their stuff together. Couched much more diplomatically than that, of course. I love my Mac goodies as well but Apple is definitely in some kind of ivory tower where people don't use their products in the real world.
 
C

Chazwozel

Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Necronic said:
Cat said:
Apple is the kid that gets a few laughs with a dirty joke then moves on to yelling out ethnic slurs at the bus stop.

Does someone happen to have a link to their latest issue with Microsoft advertising?

Yup, here you go.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple- ... ,8268.html

Looks like they got a little butthurt

Those laptop commercials are one of those few competitor commercials that are 100% true. You do NOT get a good value for what you pay for for an Apple laptop.

-- Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:16 am --

JCM said:
Icarus said:
Apple are ham sandwich for a big number of reasons - the fact that they actively prevent Mac OS X from being used on a PC (lawsuits) just goes to show they are. Microsoft may not be much better, but MS has had that bad reputation for over a decade and Apple is wrongful perceived as being more reliable when, in fact, they're WORSE than Microsoft.
Their products are reliable, its just the company is not ethical.

Really? I always had fun watching my PI in grad school "trick" his Apple to do what he wants. :D Anytime I was in his office going over data on his computer, something would crash, not open, not be compatible. This was one of those insanely huge, new iMacs too.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

spending $80 on an apple keyboard as a replacement instead of buying a cheap third party? your IT dept sounds like idiots.
 
Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Covar said:
spending $80 on an apple keyboard as a replacement instead of buying a cheap third party? your IT dept sounds like idiots.
But you can't pick the keyboard when you buy an iMac. Apple forces you to buy it along with the mouse and its software whenever you buy one of their computers so you can bet you paid close to $80 in the first place when you originally bought it. My point was that the damn things are hugely expensive yet can't even be properly opened without special tools.

Today, I had another "great" discussion with Mac-fanatics. They said I was talking bullshit when I said that my Vista workstation hasn't been restarted in three months. I showed them proof, they said it was not true. It can't be because Vista would crash long before that they said. I told them Vista, on proper hardware (i.e. not cheap crap with poor drivers), Vista is at least as stable as Mac OS X and can easily run for months without any need for reboot. My father's PC, get this, hasn't been restarted in half a year and then it was due to a thunder storm forcing him to unplug it. AND he has a $450 PC too! Cheap as hell but decent hardware. See, it's crap like this that makes me dislike a lot of Mac users - they don't understand how it works. They see a family member running a 5 year old PC and then see how Vista struggles on the outdated PC that cost next to nothing even when they bought it. Then they go all arrogant and think their Mac, which cost 5 times as much, is better. :facepalm: I'm sorry if I take price/quality balance into account.
 
C

Chazwozel

Apple whips out some major * (maybe)

Icarus said:
Covar said:
spending $80 on an apple keyboard as a replacement instead of buying a cheap third party? your IT dept sounds like idiots.
But you can't pick the keyboard when you buy an iMac. Apple forces you to buy it along with the mouse and its software whenever you buy one of their computers so you can bet you paid close to $80 in the first place when you originally bought it. My point was that the damn things are hugely expensive yet can't even be properly opened without special tools.

Today, I had another "great" discussion with Mac-fanatics. They said I was talking bullshit when I said that my Vista workstation hasn't been restarted in three months. I showed them proof, they said it was not true. It can't be because Vista would crash long before that they said. I told them Vista, on proper hardware (i.e. not cheap crap with poor drivers), Vista is at least as stable as Mac OS X and can easily run for months without any need for reboot. My father's PC, get this, hasn't been restarted in half a year and then it was due to a thunder storm forcing him to unplug it. AND he has a $450 PC too! Cheap as * but decent hardware. See, it's crap like this that makes me dislike a lot of Mac users - they don't understand how it works. They see a family member running a 5 year old PC and then see how Vista struggles on the outdated PC that cost next to nothing even when they bought it. Then they go all arrogant and think their Mac, which cost 5 times as much, is better. :facepalm: I'm sorry if I take price/quality balance into account.
I've seen the spinning apple wheel of death
far more times then I've ever gotten a blue screen crash in windows.
 
Palm is stepping it up a bit. This article also goes over how they are getting the Pre to sync.
Palm has released webOS 1.1, which, along with offering more robust EAS support for business users, re-enables Palm media sync,” said company spokesperson Lynn Fox. “Palm believes that openness and interoperability offer better experiences for users by allowing them the freedom to use the content they own without interference across devices and services, so on behalf of consumers, we have notified the USB Implementers Forum [USB-IF] of what we believe is improper use of the Vendor ID number by another member.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top