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That's going to become an issue long before he's out of office. If he's willing to openly take information and assistance from a foreign power in order to win an election, then he's someone who would trade information in private. How much of the United States wold Dolt45 trade away for an advantage in the election? How many state secrets would he turn over to bolster his ego?
I dunno, do you think there's any parades in Texas he could attend before he's out of office?
 
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Treason. Not a word to take lightly, but that is what is happening down south right now. The NYT have revealed that the US military is taking aggressive cyber actions against Russia. The treason? They are doing this without knowledge of the president. Why? Because they understand who they serve and who the president serves. So, yay treason!
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/politics/trump-cyber-russia-grid.html

Mr. Trump issued new authorities to Cyber Command last summer, in a still-classified document known as National Security Presidential Memoranda 13, giving General Nakasone far more leeway to conduct offensive online operations without receiving presidential approval.

But the action inside the Russian electric grid appears to have been conducted under little-noticed new legal authorities, slipped into the military authorization bill passed by Congress last summer. The measure approved the routine conduct of “clandestine military activity” in cyberspace, to “deter, safeguard or defend against attacks or malicious cyberactivities against the United States.”

Under the law, those actions can now be authorized by the defense secretary without special presidential approval.
That said, Trump said the REPORTING on the cyber attacks were the action of treason, not the acts themselves.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ares-report-us-cyber-actions-against-russian/
Do you believe that the Failing New York Times just did a story stating that the United States is substantially increasing Cyber Attacks on Russia. This is a virtual act of Treason by a once great paper so desperate for a story, any story, even if bad for our Country.
 
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Mr. Trump issued new authorities to Cyber Command last summer, in a still-classified document known as National Security Presidential Memoranda 13, giving General Nakasone far more leeway to conduct offensive online operations without receiving presidential approval.
Plan Arrr!

--Patrick
 
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Assuming that all this is true and accurate, I... actually agree with Trump? If the US military was conducting secret cyber warfare operations against Russia and the NYT printed the details, it’s a big problem. Wouldn’t it be akin to reporting on exact troops movements and locations during an invasion?

EDIT: If I’ve misunderstood something, please enlighten me.
 
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My assumption is that, if we're not actually at war with someone, we shouldn't be executing cyber warfare against them... because that would be wrong.

--Patrick
 
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My assumption is that, if we're not actually at war with someone, we shouldn't be executing cyber warfare against them... because that would be wrong.

--Patrick
That would be painfully naive of the NYT staff... which would fit.
 
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It's a reporter's job to report. If a government run attack wants to be clandestine, maybe don't get caught by reporters. But I'm always of the opinion that the people deserve to know what's happening.
 
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It's a reporter's job to report. If a government run attack wants to be clandestine, maybe don't get caught by reporters. But I'm always of the opinion that the people deserve to know what's happening.
I agree with you in principle, but I also see certain situations where a story should be restricted for security reasons. So I don’t think that what the NYT has done is actual treason (again, assuming it all went down the way Trump says it has), but I don’t think they should be publishing the story.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
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(again, assuming it all went down the way Trump says it has)
That's a pretty big IF.

Dolt45 is a known liar, but I also have no idea how to tell which parts of his story are true, and which parts are the lies.

Random possibilities:
- Trump actually ordered this cyber-attack, and someone at the military is falling on their sword by claiming it was without Presidential authorization

- Trump is the one who decided to leak the story to the press, out of spite because the military was acting without him

- The military "leaked" this information to the press because they wanted to bring attention to what they've done. There is an ongoing campaign to make Americans more aware that the military fights in the cyber realm (they've done videos with YouTubers talking about their efforts), and I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to grab the public's attention on the matter, by outing an action that's already done and is known by Russian intelligence anyway. (And Trump is shouting "treason" over this because he hates the press, and doesn't understand Military strategy.)

- The leak is deliberate misinformation from the military, helping to cover other actions.

There's a lot of possibilities. That's just what springs immediately to my mind based on my very limited knowledge.

Wouldn’t it be akin to reporting on exact troops movements and locations during an invasion?
Not if the action is already over and done with. Also, I'm not sure how much vulnerability for US agents this causes. It could be more akin to making the enemy aware that drones flew recon missions in their airspace. Or possibly akin to letting them know that their phones had been tapped. Is there more detail to what type of attacks these were? How much physical access was involved? Was this all just phishing and remote hacking? Was this reporting ongoing activity, or past events.
 
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There's a lot of possibilities, and since Trump is involved, its almost impossible to make out what's actually going on.
If the US military is making illegal (in the international court sense, not the US law sense) attacks on other countries, be it by air strike, boots on the ground, precision strikes, or cyberattacks, the public has a right to know. "We're doing this covertly" means you want to keep it silent, which is a-ok in some cases ,but can also be used to cover up a whole bunch of crap that isn't OK. Your president might decide a technique isn't torture and is fine to use on enemy combatants, international pacts and treaties might say otherwise. In which case it's whistle blowing...Which is sometimes considered treason by those who think what they're doing is good, because they're the good guys.
 

Dave

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Exaggeration. But they were still going to conventionally bomb Iran at several locations.

What a fucking shit show.

Fuck Trump. Fuck Bolton.
 
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Exaggeration. But they were still going to conventionally bomb Iran at several locations.

What a fucking shit show.

Fuck Trump. Fuck Bolton.
I figured as much but it wouldn't have stunned me.

It's just kinda amazing that the same morons that got us into Iraq, a decision almost universally recognized as awful (to put it lightly), get to still be in charge.
 

Dave

Staff member
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This time the lies are particularly transparent, though. At least the Bush regime fooled Colin Powell enough to torpedo his credibility by lying to the UN. In Trump's administration it's really, REALLY obvious they are trying to make shit up to start a war. It's telling that I believe the fucking IRANIANS over our own government when it comes to the drone shooting. The Iranians provided proof with coordinates and the US just said, "International waters. Trust us." Not exactly confidence builders.

Don't get me wrong. I'd really, REALLY like to believe our government on this. But I just can't. There's no trust or credibility left.
 
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Not only that bothers me. I'm honestly surprised at how little this is moving things on this forum...
Iran shot down a drone that had no business being there. It's not just Iran saying it, it's been confirmed by the Most Trustworthy of Sources, Russia.
Trump ordered retaliatory strikes - if this had been an Iranian drone anywhere near US waters he'd have shot it down in a heartbeat
Trump called the whole thing off, but....First it was with the planes already over Iranian ground, then with the planes just left, then with no planes in the air
Trump called them back because of the possibility of (up to 150) casualties. Because he thought you could bomb a bunch of military installations without deaths?
This whole thing is an enormous shitshow. I mean, yes, obviously Bolton & Co just want a war, and Trump will want to give it to get that good old war-support-re-election thing. But holy fuck they can't make it look like any sort of actual threat. The ENTIRE Iran thing is of their own construction. Backing out of the Iran nuclear deal was a horrible idea (but hey, Art of the Deal, you're in a much better place now!), then re-instating and applying extra sanctions, offending a bunch of high important people, cutting off aid, driving up tensions, support pretty much anything Saudi-Arabia has said even when the proof it was false was literally being supplied by the US army.

There's a very big, dangerous country ran by a plutocrat who's interfering in US elections, funneling money to extremist groups to undermine and destroy the USA from the inside, destabilize your government, and change the world order. There's also a country that's a dangerous religious zealot state, but that had been slowly but surely being drawn back into diplomatic society, being normalized, with rights for minorities and women slowly beign granted - with a young, blossoming democratic movement that just needed some time and help. One of these is the betest buddy in the whole wide world of your President, the other is currently being treated as if they've killed the Preident's dog. Honestly, even if Putin was the US president he couldn't be doing more to bring the US down and weaken them and destroy their reputation than Trump is doing.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
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Not only that bothers me. I'm honestly surprised at how little this is moving things on this forum...
Iran shot down a drone that had no business being there. It's not just Iran saying it, it's been confirmed by the Most Trustworthy of Sources, Russia.
Trump ordered retaliatory strikes - if this had been an Iranian drone anywhere near US waters he'd have shot it down in a heartbeat
Trump called the whole thing off, but....First it was with the planes already over Iranian ground, then with the planes just left, then with no planes in the air
Trump called them back because of the possibility of (up to 150) casualties. Because he thought you could bomb a bunch of military installations without deaths?
This whole thing is an enormous shitshow. I mean, yes, obviously Bolton & Co just want a war, and Trump will want to give it to get that good old war-support-re-election thing. But holy fuck they can't make it look like any sort of actual threat. The ENTIRE Iran thing is of their own construction. Backing out of the Iran nuclear deal was a horrible idea (but hey, Art of the Deal, you're in a much better place now!), then re-instating and applying extra sanctions, offending a bunch of high important people, cutting off aid, driving up tensions, support pretty much anything Saudi-Arabia has said even when the proof it was false was literally being supplied by the US army.

There's a very big, dangerous country ran by a plutocrat who's interfering in US elections, funneling money to extremist groups to undermine and destroy the USA from the inside, destabilize your government, and change the world order. There's also a country that's a dangerous religious zealot state, but that had been slowly but surely being drawn back into diplomatic society, being normalized, with rights for minorities and women slowly beign granted - with a young, blossoming democratic movement that just needed some time and help. One of these is the betest buddy in the whole wide world of your President, the other is currently being treated as if they've killed the Preident's dog. Honestly, even if Putin was the US president he couldn't be doing more to bring the US down and weaken them and destroy their reputation than Trump is doing.
TLDR: Nothing has changed.

Republicans want war.
The sitting President is an idiot.
The United States is actively harming the progress of democracy around the globe.
The US keeps backing out of treaties that are meant to make the world a safer, more humane place.

That's the entire Trump administration. (And some of these things go back even further.)
 
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And the sad thing is, you know he does that to really, really good expensive steak, not some faux-filet from a 20 year old cow that's otherwise inedible.
 

Dave

Staff member
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People are reading this as a "McCain is dead" thing? I don't see it. I guess he said something about McCain earlier in his speech?
 
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