Story Idea (Title: The Chronicles of the Third)

[Dave]

I have a story idea but I'm hitting a brick wall.

Setting: A world very unlike ours. Gravity is very low and nearly everything can travel vast distances quickly. Additionally, they have a strange magic/tech hybrid society - think organic steampunk. But the big thing is that when children are "born" they always do so in pairs. They're ALWAYS twins, one with the power of healing/life/nurturing and the other with the power over stone/non-living. The Al'thari and Dul'thari have lived in harmony for thousands of years and have no real government or armies on either side. But now something has happened - a triple birth has been found. One of the children is Al'thari, one is Dul'thari and the third has the powers of both.

What I'm running into while writing this is that I've made the creatures so reasonable that the only way I can introduce strife within the world would be to turn the Triplet into a Messiah-type and have them invent religion of a sort. A an agnostic, though, I find that I'm writing it almost like a challenge to religion and it's more combative than I'd like. It comes off like I'm preaching anti-religion but I'm not doing so on purpose.

What I'd like is to find another reason the Triplet birth would cause strife. I figured you guys would have some good ideas.

 

[Disconnected]

The third birth: Science abomination? Holy sign of the apocalypse? Societal outcast :/

social outcast angle might not be strong enough but essentially a split in acceptance/non acceptance of the society as he will upset whatever balance exists as well as not have position as the society is set up for twins, I imagine a lot of roles require duality and he has no pair.

 

[Fun Size]

Wouldn't both sides claim the triplet as their own? Seems like a split society like that would have separate education or child-rearing beliefs, and there would be conflict over how to raise the triplet.

 

[MindDetective]

1.) The Triplet is more powerful than any single person. They could abuse this power.
2.) Not sure how you are writing the story, but the strife could be more personal, between the siblings themselves. Jealousy? Murder...?
3.) Society could be faced with its first real instance of "different" and react accordingly. The Triplet is shunned because it is not normal.
4.) The combined abilities allow the Triplet to grant life to stone. A new enemy arises (accidentally or otherwise).
5.) The Triplet has a unique ability to petrify, making it a power to cause death. Strife unfolds as society begins to realize a potential threat.

Just some spitballin'

 

[Dave]

I like the amalgamation of Fun Size (and idea I toyed with initially, BTW) and MD's #4/5. Great stuff!

 

[figmentPez]

Perhaps you could explore the idea that they get along so well because they're unintentionally isolated from each other. They think they're connected, and understand each other, but that's only because they interact only on the levels that they choose. Trying to raise the child to be on both sides forces them to realize things about each other that they were mostly unaware of, and are uncomfortable with. A society built on the social niceties of being comfortably ignorant of other cultures, suddenly faced with more information being shared between different groups. Could have some parallels with the internet and the growth of information exchange and the conflict that happens when different cultural groups clash over ideologies. Doesn't have to be religious, just cultural. Food, art, social mores, whatever.

 

[strawman]

I think using the Third (and yes, that is what this individual should be referred to from now on) as a lens to show that the outwardly reasonable society is truly unreasonable is probably your best bet.

Everything goes smoothly as long as things follow the order that's been established over the centuries. Then the rebel appears and, whether willing or unwitting, the threads that bind people together are shown to be farces.

Reason, cast in a new light, appears to be unreasonable.

Harmony, cast in a new light, turns out to be coordinated disharmony.

Love turns out to be hate so deep and ingrained that, once discovered, becomes unmanageable.

The Third will obviously be baffled by, hate, embrace, or [insert emotion here] the dissonance, and this will depend on the age of the character as you explore the story, and will strongly influence the ending, and whether the Third made a positive impact overall, or negative impact on society. The drama and trauma are guaranteed - but what will they mean for society in the long run?

 

[sixpackshaker]

The prophecy/messiah angle has been done to death/then reborn. Make him the first of his kind period. Not the first in 3000 years, or the first of this generation. They will just have no Idea what to do with him.

"What do the prophecies say about one with such power?" - "NOTHING"

Not only does he have both forms of magic, but using his magic does not need to be recharged.
Added at: 22:10
If he truly becomes a threat, make it when he/she is fully grown and corrupted by the society that wants to "protect" him from the rest.

 

[PatrThom]

I can see some parallels with Xanth's Bink or the Darksword's Joram, except that this child's issue is the opposite. Instead of being born with (apparently) no ability, it is instead born with too much. Usually, authors use this sort of character as the catalyst for reuniting two feuding groups, but your groups aren't feuding. Some thoughts, then.

-As above, I can only see one of two outcomes. Either both groups will claim ownership, or neither group will want to be associated. I just don't think it would be likely that either faction would be of an "Eh, whatever." mindset.

-When do people find out their talent? If at birth, it all happens right away and everyone fights over a completely innocent infant. This has some possibilities from a 'message to the reader' standpoint (where the child just stands in for Innocence - imagine what happens if the struggle results in the child's death at the age of 3 months, or the story could be like that cornfield Twilight Zone kid). If at puberty (or some other 'awakening' ceremony), then there's a delay, and therefore a chance that the child may successfully keep it hidden for a while (if so desired) . If at marriage (or at loss of virginity or something), then there's a whole 'nother aspect to be had.

-What sort of demeanor will this child have? Do the siblings and parents die and set it on a path of revenge? Does it just want everyone to get along? Will it enjoy being different, or instead treat it as a curse (can't get a job, others make 'cheating' accusations).

-Consider that a skilled Nature practitioner could possibly "fix" this problem, permanently and irrevocably making the child one or the other. Will the story be about how the choice gets made? And will it be made by the parents, or the child?

-This story has huuuuuuge potential to be a metaphor for gender (especially if you consider the previous point). Not sure if you'll actually decide to open that door, but there you go. For that matter, does the child even have a gender?

-Are there any drawbacks? Is the child especially weak/frail (like Elric of Melnibone)? Blind? Disfigured? Deaf? Is it retarded developmentally disabled (and therefore extremely gullible - people use it like a weapon/tool rather than a person)?

-What is the family dynamic? If everyone has a twin, do twins have to marry twins (as pairs) or can people marry individually? Is everyone only allowed to marry the same or their opposite* (and if so, how can the child's 'alignment' be determined)?

- Is the child physically marked somehow that people can immediately tell it apart? Are there other differences between castes ('all Naturals are nocturnal,' for instance) that would make life a challenge?

Ok, that's what I've got in an hour's worth of doing a dozen things at once.

--Patrick
*Personally, I see this as probably the most potentially interesting idea in this post.

 

[Dave]

Further information about the world and how things work.

1. There are no real families. Like Prot from K-Pax, the children are created with something called a "joining". The Al'thari and Dul'thari each inject a portion of their life essence and the children are created. I didn't intend or plan on this being a story of the differences between the sexes. I guess no matter what I do people will read stuff into it. They will probably even say, "It's obvious what the author was trying to say." and they'll be completely wrong.
2. Children have their powers pretty much right away. As they are amalgamations of the "parents" they come in completely aware and share the knowledge and experiences of the essence donors. To whit: Al'thari A and Dul'thari B put their essences in to create a pair of twins. These twins will have the full memories of both parents. It still takes them a bit of time to reach physical maturity, but they are fully functioning both mentally and in power. The 'thari can only create 1 pair of twins.
3. The Third (which name I like, BTW) will either have all of the memories...or none. I haven't decided which. In the first case the action will be all about how the societies view him and what he portents, in the second case it would be about his wanting/needing to understand the entire social dynamic and how he fits into it. I have found the first situation to be easier to write but starts to humanize the races. The second situation is more difficult to write and allows me to keep the unique perspectives of the different races...but reads like a textbook at times as the Third gains an understanding and I try and communicate this.
4. The Al'thari will not know how to "fix" the Third. It wouldn't even enter their minds to try. That would be messing with the natural order of the thing. Now, the Dul'thari would try and figure out the Third as it's something abnormal. In fact, this is where the main crux of the matter may appear. Because the Third is living it's study/wellbeing comes under the Al'thari but because of other things (explained in #5) it comes under the demesne of the Dul'thari.
5. Like Humans, the 'thari can recognize individuals of their own races fairly easily. Additionally, the 'thari communicate using all of the senses and include a visible "aura". So a 'thari would know another based on view/smell/aura/taste (through touch). The reason that the Dul'thari feel they have a stake in the Third is that the Third doesn't have the aura and smells/tastes..."different". So the Third is immediately identified as being different, even from his twins.
6. Although the Al'thari and Dul'thari are different, they do not consider themselves different "castes". This concept to them would be very alien. It really is an idyllic place until the Third is born. No government, no religion, no money, no crime.
7. The 'thari do not die in the sense that we know dying. When one does have an accident or their body begins to shut down through age, they go through a sort of ceremony where the Al'thari and Dul'thari transfer the essence into themselves. This can only be done by a pair who have not yet created a set of twins as they pass the memories on to the twins which they create.

Keep the questions/ideas coming. I'd especially like to know what you guys think of point #3.

 

[strawman]

The big advantage of having no memory is that you have an easy method to explain this world to readers.

Think about Harry Potter - he wasn't born into the wizarding world, and thus JKR had an easy method to expose things to the reader, even in the last book where children's stories become important, she needed a way to teach the reader about the deathly hallows.

Many, many, many books use this tactic, although it needn't necessarily be the main character who is being introduced - it could be a sidekick, a pen pal, etc.

If you don't create a way to explain this odd world to the reader that fits into the story, you end up either leaving the reader out of a ton of interesting aspects of society, or you have long, ill-fitting exposition that you have to cram in there.

One additional opportunity that this raises, though, is that since it would be created without memories, a built in struggle emerges where he is trying to understand things that don't make sense, and others don't even comprehend that their assumptions of everyone's knowledge aren't present in him. Intellectually they may understand, but as a practical matter it may not occur to them that the reason he isn't as consistent about washing his feet daily is because he doesn't have the memory of his ancestors thousands of epochs ago that found foot washing to prevent the most common causes for death.

If you extend the transfer of memory to include the memory of pain, whether physical or emotional, then you can have interesting situations where he does things for momentary pleasure that will bring him eventual pain. Others don't perform short term mistakes because they keenly remember how much it hurt when their 32nd grandparent slid down the mountain on a board and broke several bones, requiring that they transfer their memory to another and die.

You can explore the idea that humans have very short memories, and often live for transient pleasures that may lead to significant consequences. This could be a good thing for society, that while "perfect" has become staid, old, and is invisibly decaying and calcifying.

Also, glad you like the Third.

 

[Dave]

Something Patr said has really stuck with me and I think I have a solution, but I wanted to throw it by you all. None of the characters in the book are going to be used by any gender. There will be no "she" or "he" in the book. Every character will be referred to as "it". I will be writing a forward that explains certain things such as the lack of gender.

Thoughts? Think it'll be confusing?

 

[figmentPez]

"It" is a difficult pronoun to use repeatedly without implying that you're referring to an object and not a person. If you want your characters to remain people to your readers you're going to have to work extra hard to overcome that, or come up with another solution, like custom created gender-neutral pronouns.

 

[Dave]

I'm learning that. So my choices are to either have it look like I'm making some sort of a statement about the wars between the genders or make it very difficult to write and read.

 

[figmentPez]

I read a Star Trek novel a long while back where one of the characters was a hermaphrodite. They used "hir" and "s/he" to refer to the character, if I recall correctly. That implies androgyny far more than gender-neutral, but it did read smoothly enough, since the words sound familiar, even if they're visually distinct.

 

[Null]

If you ever see yourself writing something starting with "As you already know...", erase it immediately.

 

[strawman]

Something Patr said has really stuck with me and I think I have a solution, but I wanted to throw it by you all. None of the characters in the book are going to be used by any gender. There will be no "she" or "he" in the book. Every character will be referred to as "it". I will be writing a forward that explains certain things such as the lack of gender.

Thoughts? Think it'll be confusing?

Create your own pronouns. It'll be better than hamfisting it with it, or coloring it with he/she/him/her/etc.

Science fiction authors have a long history of creating the language they needed to put forth their story. There's also a lot of discussion on androgynous pronouns: http://www.google.com/search?q=androgynous+pronouns

But you might benefit from having a small corpus of new words that represent aspects of the society that don't follow our norms. By creating different words you encourage readers to avoid assumptions base don their own culture and language, and it might be easier for them to accept that there aren't "couples" or "unions" but instead "bidants" or whatever which symbolize the ritualistic creation ceremony.

Crafting your own words is difficult, but once you do it, it frees both you and your reader to focus on the important aspects of the story, and encourages them to cast off the lenses they filter all of life through.

 

[Dave]

I could find a way to conjugate 'Al' & 'Dul' since they are the Al'thari & Dul'thari.

 

[KCWM]

My vote would be for the Third not having any memories. As someone pointed out, it opens an easy door for you to explain the universe that you've created. That's part of what sucked me into Harry Potter. I find the idea of the Third learning about the culture interesting...a lot of directions you could go into it. You mentioned concern about humanizing the character, but that might be your selling point. Part of being human is our learning processing...learning from mistakes, even going so far as to reject the advice of those who have experienced what we are going through. It could possibly give the reader something to connect to the character. Your concern could be one of the biggest hooks, IMHO.

 

[strawman]

I could find a way to conjugate 'Al' & 'Dul' since they are the Al'thari & Dul'thari.

Du'al. Because I like word play.

Dinal (from binal)

 

[Dave]

So would you have:

she = al
her = als
he = dul
his = duls

This is what I mean by the conjugation.

 

[PatrThom]

(sorry, been away a while)
Re: Words: It's your world, so you get to do whatever you want. If you want to invent words like "emfol" or "grok," that's your privilege. In fact, it may actually make reading easier since the reader's understanding will not be quantized or prejudiced by the words and you can build the meaning you want into the word(s) you create.

Re: Memories: You have possibly overlooked a third option, which is that the Third may end up with the memories of both um, "parents." Then rather than having the (possibly trite) vehicle of explaining everything to the reader ostensibly because the Third knows nothing, you instead get the excuse of being able to explain the du'ality of the groups as the Third tries to sort the memories of what it means to be an Al' from the memories of what it means to be a Dul'.
-Additionally, if the memory dynamic works the way you say, then the Third's siblings and parents each possess half of the Third's memories. This may be an inconvenient plot point (or convenient, if some or all of them meet with some sort of untimely end).

Re: Gender: It should not be difficult to avoid gender confusion...if there are some definite genders present (most likely some sort of contact with humankind). The Al'thari will no doubt be familiar with gender in the animal/plant kingdoms, the Dul'thari will be familiar with many complimentary processes (acid/alkali, light/dark, hot/cold, coke/pepsi). But any outsiders will of course interpret their duality as de facto gender, even if they themselves do not. This might allow you to squeak by on the pronoun problem, since if any of the story is told from the point of view of humankind, it would be natural for 'us' to have assigned gender references one way or the other.

Re: Castes: I didn't mean to imply that more or less value is placed on one or the other, rather that they are distinct and don't overlap. Not so much sergeant/captain (vertical) as I meant something like farmer/merchant (horizontal).

Re: Dying: I'm not sure I understand the 'essence' process you outline in #7, above. Do you mean that only childless couples can perform the ceremony? And if so, where does their essence go...into just the pair, or into the community as a whole? I assume you mean memories are never lost. If so, that means the memories must go back a looooooong way.

So what happens when two of the same 'thari get together? Anything? Is it even possible? What about inbreeding (not in the traditional sense, since parents can never 'breed' again)...what happens when twins take the dying essence of their parents? Is that even possible?

So many questions, and I swear I'll remember more of them when I'm not so mentally exhausted.

--Patrick

 

[Azurephoenix]

Further information about the world and how things work.
Children have their powers pretty much right away. As they are amalgamations of the "parents" they come in completely aware and share the knowledge and experiences of the essence donors. To whit: Al'thari A and Dul'thari B put their essences in to create a pair of twins. These twins will have the full memories of both parents. It still takes them a bit of time to reach physical maturity, but they are fully functioning both mentally and in power. The 'thari can only create 1 pair of twins.

If they can only create one pair of twins... does that mean there is no population growth? Just a recycling of genetic memories? How did such a mechanism evolve and how can they survive as a species with flat growth?

By the way... I like where you're going with this so far.

 

[Dave]

No population growth. It evolved because it basically had to. The 'thari used to "breed" indiscriminately but they were threatening to overpopulate. They turned the process into a ceremony and now this is just how it's done. Of course, they retain the memory of why and know that they can any time if they want, but they don't because that would be against society and abnormal.

Now to Patrick's points:

If the Third retained memory it would be from both parents. In fact, the normal twins do have memories from both parents. But the Al'thari can only access the powers of the Al'thuri and Dul'thari the Dul'thari. But the Al'thari do have the memories/feelings of the Dul'thari. It creates a duality/empathy loop that keeps the society stable.

There is no real gender.

Your caste thoughts are pretty much right on. The Al'thari have their place and the Dul'thari theirs. They each rely on the other but stay in their own roles.

Only childless couples can perform the ceremony. Memory goes back a very, very long way. When a 'thari dies, their essence is absorbed by an Al'thari and Dul'thari, which can then be passed on when they perform the twinning ceremony.

Al'thari and Al'thari can not Twin, nor can two Dul'thari. (No, this is not an anti-gay thing so don't read anything into it. It's one of the reasons I don't want gender pronouns.)

 

[Chad Sexington]

My only input as to conflict might be: Okay, so their society is wholly reasonable and non-conflicted. But if you have a child with no memory, and extraordinary power... Well I don't know if you want him to be villainous per se but he might just become arrogant and power-mad, n'est-ce pas?

 

[strawman]

He should totally conform, be the perfect dual nature citizen, then logically figure out that his race is doomed unless they face a threat, and choose to become the threat that will strengthen his race, sacrificing himself in the process.

 

[PatrThom]

(I'm gonna use "he" from now on only because a) it's tiresome to reword all the time, b) its technically correct, and c) I don't wanna use "it.")

-Well, the superhero angle is out (no possibility of secret identity unless he learns to cloak/manipulate his 'aura').
-The "Galahad" angle is out (since he has memories, he will not need his history explained to him(us), and there's no need for self-discovery).
-There can be no "mate/love/glory quest" since he has no equal, is an aberration, and there is no real gender nor ego.
-There can be no Unification or Yin/Yang storyline since society has already achieved Harmony (unless it is Unification against an outside influence).

-The memories thing isn't a hive-mind, right? (no real-time updating, only pass memories on conception/ceremony).
-Does personality come with the memories? Will he have two personalities warring for dominance, or will the Universal Harmony extend even to this?


Ooo, wait. I just came up with a possible solution that might reverse your difficult plot points into full-on centerpieces. Rather than having us discover him, have him be the one who discovers us. It doesn't even have to be a First Contact novel, this character could be an ambassador towards the rest of the galaxy (and by extension the reader). So much would fall into place:

-If he is an aberration, it would make others of his kind uncomfortable. As an ambassador, he is "away" most of the time. Problem solved (social).
-He has the memories and abilities of both lines. This makes him a perfect representative to other races/societies, as he knows everything that has come before and can act in situations requiring the experience or ability of either "caste" without having to drag his "spouse" along all the time. Problem solved (his duality becomes THE reason he is suited best for the role)
-Those he interacts with will not know the story of his people, so he will have to explain it. Problems solved (reader education).
-He will likely not know the story of our people (or whatever other races he interacts with), keeping him uncertain and cautious. Problem solved (reader empathy).

The analogy I'm about to make will be quite imperfect, but it will hopefully serve to illustrate what I'm going for. Write the character of the Third almost the same way as you'd write a late-series crew member addition to a Star Trek series...such as Seven (of Nine)*. She was a character with a massive amount of acquired knowledge (from an enormous number of individuals in the hive mind) and with no small amount of ability (though it's granted that there was never any doubt as to her gender), and I can see quite a few parallels as to the mechanisms of how the personality of the Third might develop and might be shown to the reader. I am not advocating that you write a Borg novel, or a novel about Neelix, Kes, or Data. I bring these characters up only because (at least in the Trek universe) they are pretty much the only member of their respective race that we ever see (that gets serious character treatment, that is). Another example of good singleton treatment might be Farscape, but as I've never seen the show I can't comment with certainty on it.** Write the story from the Third's POV as he discovers the rest of the world Universe outside of his relatively eons-of-ordinary experience.

--Patrick
*I almost want to make a 5th/3rd bank reference now.
**Yeah, I know. One series at a time, 'k?

 

[Dave]

Time to resurrect this old gem. Working on it again and I think I found a way around the exposition. Every other chapter at the start is going to be a flashback-style where the 'thari go through the formation of their society.

 

[Soliloquy]

I think the names need more apostrophes. One is just too commonplace.

(Seriously, though. This seems like an awesome idea.)

 

[Dave]

Thanks, So'lil'o'quy!

 

[Soliloquy]

No problem, D'av'''e'''''''!

 

[Dave]

Mine made more sense than yours. You could justify having 3 glottal stops in your name whereas mine none would make sense other than simply D'ave.

 

[Soliloquy]

Mine made more sense than yours. You could justify having 3 glottal stops in your name whereas mine none would make sense other than simply D'ave.

Pfft. Only in the sense of human linguistics, Dave. But you're trying to make a story that goes beyond that, aren't you?

(you just need to make a grunting noise for each apostrophe)

 

[Dave]

You are perfectly correct, except that the 'thari names are being written in their closest English approximation. So I'm still right.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Re-reading things, it sounds like you have a concept but not a plot, which might be better-suited to a short story, like Neil Gaiman's "Changes", than a novel. Just a thought.