Should I buy a new desktop pc?

Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

So, my desktop is getting a little long in the tooth.
Current specs:
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7600K CPU @ 3.80GHz 3.80 GHz
Installed RAM 64.0 GB
Video card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070.
Drives:
2TB NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD (C:/ boot)​
2TB SSD (D:/ games installation)​
4TB HD x2 (RAID backup).​
​

So, I've had this system literally for years..since 2017. It's getting long in the tooth. It still runs things fairly acceptably well, but the sound card is going out (at least once a day, the system freezes for 30 seconds, and then the sound card falls off my device list). This has been mitigated by running the sound through the HDMI cable to the monitor and using it as my 'sound device', and then running a cable from the monitor headphone jack back to the speakers I've been using. The front-of-case USB ports are loose and don't really hold cables well any longer (owing to how many times over the years i've tripped on those cables hanging out around my ankles).

Those are minor gripes and mostly mitigated. I don't need a new machine yet. But I kind of want a new machine. It's been 5 years. I don't build my own machines any longer, and I have $6000 in credit over at Dell, so I'm kind of salivating over this overpriced Alienware machine:
www.dell.com

Alienware Aurora R15 Gaming Desktop With Intel 13th Gen

Shop the Alienware Aurora R15 Gaming Desktop. Our most powerful Intel-based desktop offers enhanced cooling & improved performance, or view all gaming desktops at Dell.com
www.dell.com

13th Gen Intel® Core™ i9 13900KF (24-Core, 68MB Cache, 3.0GHz to 5.8GHz P-Core Thermal Velocity)
NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4090 24GB GDDR6X
32GB Dual Channel DDR5 (2x 16GB) at 4800MT/s; up to 64GB
Drives:
1TB NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD (Boot)​
1TB SATA 6Gb/s (Storage)​
​
My plan would be to use these 4tb drives I have from the NAS upgrade to fill out the machine to be similar in spec until I can get everything transferred over, and then move the NVMe and SSD from the old machine to the new machine.

I know I could probably price out the parts and build it myself cheaper. Last time my stepson was drooling over an Alienware, I built him the exact same machine for like $600 cheaper. But I can't do that with the Dell money. And I'm kind of tired of building machines.

Please tell me why this would be a bad idea :D
 
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GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
"My desktop is getting old"
*Lists specs 3 generations newer than my desktop that I've been running since 2013*

I'm still running an I7-4770 with 16gb of ram and a 1060 3gb

I mean, if you got Camel Cash burning a hole in your pocket, why not I suppose.

But if all this is just to mitigate a sound card issue... didn't you get that Audio Technica mic that has a 3.5mm output jack?
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

GasBandit said:
"My desktop is getting old"
*Lists specs 3 generations newer than my desktop that I've been running since 2013*

I'm still running an I7-4770 with 16gb of ram and a 1060 3gb

I mean, if you got Camel Cash burning a hole in your pocket, why not I suppose.

But if all this is just to mitigate a sound card issue... didn't you get that Audio Technica mic that has a 3.5mm output jack?
Click to expand...
The output jack is also feeds the mic input into it, like a monitor system. Which means I get room noise in it, not clean sound. But, as mentioned, I have the sound card issue mitigated. I'm mostly wanting to buy another '5 year pc'...something that'll last me a while. And a 24-core system seems a little more robust than the 2017 quad core I have now. Plus, the upgrade in graphics.

Your complaint that my 2017 is newer than your 2013 machine doesn't really hold sway with me, Mr. Windows XP lol. I don't usually hang onto my technology for a decade before upgrading.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Tinwhistler said:
The output jack is also feeds the mic input into it, like a monitor system. Which means I get room noise in it, not clean sound. But, as mentioned, I have the sound card issue mitigated. I'm mostly wanting to buy another '5 year pc'...something that'll last me a while. And a 24-core system seems a little more robust than the 2017 quad core I have now. Plus, the upgrade in graphics.

Your complaint that my 2017 is newer than your 2013 machine doesn't really hold sway with me, Mr. Windows XP lol. I don't usually hang onto my technology for a decade before upgrading.
Click to expand...
I'm running 7, not XP >_<

I do miss XP though.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

And if eh does, you can send your last decade PC to me:

Intel Core2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz
6 GB DDR2 RAM
GeForce GTX1050 (ok, this one i got in 2019)

Hell, if you have any 2 GB DDR2 sticks lying around, i'll take'em...
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

PatrThom said:
Now is an AWFUL time to try and build/buy a new PC.
Click to expand...
SO:
Here's the thing. The hardware market is really heavy into a transition period right now. Memory is moving from DDR4 to DDR5, CPUs are moving from monolithic (single) chips to multi-chip packages, the GPU market is also moving from monolithic to "chiplet" packaging, motherboards are moving from PCIe v4 to PCIe v5, and even onboard Ethernet is moving from 1 Gigabit to 2.5 Gigabit. On top of these, there are multiple other interconnect standards warring for dominance that might completely change or even replace current RAM and even PCIe tech. SSDs in your RAM slots? CAMMs instead of SO-DIMMs? Stacked caches? CXL memory? About the only thing that isn't changing is the sound hardware, mostly thanks to pressure from the entertainment industry not wanting to open up any new avenues for potential piracy. We also have the fallout from all that greedy scalping, both as a shortage of parts and also as an "opportunity" on the part of hardware manufacturers (most notably NVIDIA). What this all adds up to is that building any computer that you plan to use for any length of time is very complicated, since not only will the "good" parts end up being expensive, but there is the very real chance that personal computer technology in general might change substantially over even the next five years.

The hardware specs you post on that Alienware system aren't actually that bad. A 4090 is THE card to get these days, the 13900KF is probably going to be a gaming monster (but the F suffix means it won't come with QuickSync if you were hoping to use that for anything). My only real criticisms would be the following:
  • Not enamored of Windows 11 right now (it's okay, you could always use the included W11 license to downgrade to Windows 10 if you want).
  • You should step up to 64GB RAM (2x32) instead of the 32(2x16). You only get 2 RAM slots, might as well max them.
  • You should step up to a 2TB NVMe SSD instead of the 1TB SSD. A 4TB option is available but that's much more expensive.
  • You should probably get at least a 2TB HDD instead of the 1TB HDD. Or skip the HDD entirely and just install one of your own later.
  • Never a huge fan (heh) of liquid cooling, but that's just because you always have to plan for the day they start to leak.
  • Of the three choices, avoid the Realtek WiFi card (if you can). It's the only one that doesn't support WiFi 6E. That'll be important later.
  • Make sure they include the 1350W PSU. Having the 4090 means they're supposed to do that by default, but...just make sure.
As far as "conventional" PCs go, it has all the right parts (except for the recommended upgrades I mention above). I guess my only real beef(s) with it are Win11 (largely because of the TPM requirement) and the liquid cooling.

As I already grudgingly said in the other thread, any "new" builds these days should probably use the 4080 or 4090 GPUs. I say grudgingly because NVIDIA is deliberately overcharging for these cards, to the tune of at least US$200-400 or so, solely because they can*. In effect, they decided to scalp the cards themselves rather than let someone else keep all that extra money. The AMD 7900-series cards are ...okay, but they basically suffer from the same sort of problem that AMD's old Bulldozer CPU lineup did, except now in GPUs. AMD basically doubled up the number of compute units (CUs) but only has one path feeding every pair of CUs, which means performance is going to be lower when all those cores can't be kept fed. I'm sure they are amazing with certain specific workloads, but I feel like SOMEbody should've realized they already tried this kind of thing before, and seen the challenges coming. And Intel's GPU is not ready for prime time. NVIDIA knows all this, which is why they are charging out the wazoo for their top cards, and why the 4080 and 4090 are literally "the only cards worth getting" in 2022.

So...is it a good system for Q4 2022? Yes. Especially if you upgrade the RAM and SSD. But it didn't need to be that expensive. But it is.

--Patrick
The MSRP for last generation's "pro" NVIDIA card, the A6000 (based on the same "Ampere" chip as the RTX 3090) was US$4650. The refreshed A6000 "Ada Edition" (based on the RTX 4090's chip), though? US$7350. Or more.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

PatrThom said:
  • Not enamored of Windows 11 right now (it's okay, you could always use the included W11 license to downgrade to Windows 10 if you want).
  • You should step up to 64GB RAM (2x32) instead of the 32(2x16). You only get 2 RAM slots, might as well max them.
  • You should step up to a 2TB NVMe SSD instead of the 1TB SSD. A 4TB option is available but that's much more expensive.
  • You should probably get at least a 2TB HDD instead of the 1TB HDD. Or skip the HDD entirely and just install one of your own later.
  • Never a huge fan (heh) of liquid cooling, but that's just because you always have to plan for the day they start to leak.
  • Of the three choices, avoid the Realtek WiFi card (if you can). It's the only one that doesn't support WiFi 6E. That'll be important later.
  • Make sure they include the 1350W PSU. Having the 4090 means they're supposed to do that by default, but...just make sure.
Click to expand...
These are changes I mostly already put into the machine sitting in my cart with the exception of some of your drive choices.

I figured I'd get the 1tb NVMe SSD. I have a 2tb NVMe in the old machine that I can use without having to increase the price of this build, if I want. But the thing is, since I have other drives I use for photos, games, etc, plus the NAS, my boot drive is only 400 gigs full. I'm not even hardly using a quarter of the 2tb I have. I may just keep the 1tb it comes with and save the 2tb for a rainy day/emergency.

As for standard HDDs, I have 4x4tb sitting around after my NAS upgrade, doing nothing, so I plan on plunking at least two into the box.

I can't modify the PSU or the wifi card in the customization menu, which is annoying. But, it's supposed to come with the 1350W PSU, and it's supposed to have an 6E wifi card (Intel Killer Wi-Fi 6E). I have a 6E card in my current machine which I could pull out if necessary--the router I have does 6E, and it's a huge improvement.

PatrThom said:
As far as "conventional" PCs go, it has all the right parts (except for the recommended upgrades I mention above). I guess my only real beef(s) with it are Win11 (largely because of the TPM requirement) and the liquid cooling.
Click to expand...
I was hoping to hear from you. Because with my surface-level understanding these days, it certainly looked like a good setup, with the liquid cooling being my only concern. But it's come a long way since the early days of home-grown liquid cooling, so I'm hoping it won't be a huge issue. As for the big changes, this has been the way for at least a decade and a half now, which is why I hate building machines with an eye to upgrade over time these days. But hopefully, this one will last me at least another 5-6 years without me having to muck about with the internals, so it's less of a consideration for me.

PatrThom said:
So...is it a good system for Q4 2022? Yes. Especially if you upgrade the RAM and SSD. But it didn't need to be that expensive. But it is.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's very spendy. More spendy than it should be, but it is what it is. I've gotten used to the big spend every half-decade or so. I find, since I account for it so I can afford it, I'd rather do that than tinker with the machine every year as funds become available for upgrade.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

-If you already have a 2TB SSD on hand then you should be fine. Even if it is "only" a PCIe v3 NVMe. Having extra open space on your drive will extend its life and increase its performance, so if you're used to having ~60% of your 1TB drive free, then that's good and you should be fine.
-There are three options for WiFi cards for that machine. Two of them have 6e, one does not. So long as it shows "6E" in the cart, then you have one of the good ones.
-The specs sheet for the machine says that it only supports HDDs up to 2TB in size. I don't know why it wouldn't support >2TB drives but I would look into that before filling it with any larger ones. Oh, and the specs sheet also says that it can only support at most one 3.5in drive, though there is an option to get a cage that will allow mounting 2x2.5in drives. I did not look to see how many internal SATA ports are available, though.
Tinwhistler said:
I've gotten used to the big spend every half-decade or so.
Click to expand...
I try to go for more than 5yrs if possible, with a goal of 8-10, so my picks do tend to be a bit more on the overbuilt and/or upgradeable side.

--Patrick
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

PatrThom said:
-There are three options for WiFi cards for that machine. Two of them have 6e, one does not. So long as it shows "6E" in the cart, then you have one of the good ones.
Click to expand...
when I was customizing the machine, there were no wifi options. only this, with no option to choose otherwise:

1672298350053.png


As for the 2tb hdd limit, maybe they should upgrade their spec sheet? It seems like a dumb limit...and other Aurora versions at least seem to take larger drives with no problem (with the same 2tb limit in their spec sheets)

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com


I'm feeling confident I can get at least one of the 4tb drives in there. But if not, it's no biggie. They're just raid backup anyway. I can put them off in an external USB enclosure and use them that way if necessary.
 
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PatrThom

PatrThom

Yeah, 2TB hasn’t been a real limit for a long time now, unless they are just hedging their bets in case the customer INSISTS on partitioning it weird.

—Patrick
 
Far

Far

Steam Deck? I know you have Dell credit but it's been a legitimate option for some of us that were in the market. I know it's not exactly a replacement for a desktop but is maybe a thought?
 
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Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

Far said:
Steam Deck? I know you have Dell credit but it's been a legitimate option for some of us that were in the market. I know it's not exactly a replacement for a desktop but is maybe a thought?
Click to expand...
I hadn't considered it. In my brain, the Steam Deck has occupied the same use case as a Switch. I can go months without touching either Steam or my Switch, so it didn't seem like a replacement for the ol' desktop. I do a lot of things on the PC other than gaming.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Tinwhistler said:
I hadn't considered it. In my brain, the Steam Deck has occupied the same use case as a Switch. I can go months without touching either Steam or my Switch, so it didn't seem like a replacement for the ol' desktop. I do a lot of things on the PC other than gaming.
Click to expand...
I got a steam deck, and discovered to my joy that it works with basically ANY USB laptop dock. It outperforms my current gaming PC at just about everything when I have it docked, using 2 27 inch monitors. And it does have a "desktop mode" but it takes a little getting used to if you're not used to linux, but I'm sure you'll pick it up even faster than I did.

For me, it's basically a full on desktop that I have the option to pop out of the dock and take with me, with its own tiny built-in touchscreen monitor.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

I want to upgrade my monitor because my current is only 22in/56cm diagonal and maxes out at only 75Hz. I'm looking at 240Hz monitors since that's going to be the new standard for gaming, and there are a bunch of them on sale, but CES is this week and they're talking about sweet 240Hz OLED displays but no real pricing numbers yet aaaaaaaghhhh.

--Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Those two are roughly equivalent*, so...yay for him, I guess?

--Patrick
*The 7900XT is MUCH better at non ray-traced DX11 stuff than the 3070, but otherwise they're, like, maybe 10-15% different.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
Buddy of mine just bought a 7900xt video card. So he said he’d just give me his old one that he can’t use any more. It’s a 3070.
Click to expand...
I'm jealous. But also I realize that to get any benefit out of any card higher than a 10 series, I'd have to upgrade my motherboard at this point. Which is why the steam deck is basically my new desktop. I figure if they come out with a new steam deck in 5-7 years, I can buy another one... and it'll still be cheaper than upgrading my video card in my main PC >_<
 
Adam

Adam

Two weeks before COVID hit, I had bought a i9-9900K 3.6GHz with an RTX2070. It now sells new for $1000 more. This thing has kept me sane for the last years.
 
Far

Far

Yeah FedEx is the one company that when it shows in the notification as the carrier it doesn't make me shudder.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Please make sure to give us 10s on the "would recommend to a a friend or family". Literally anything else - yes, a 9/10 - is considered a bad score. And they've seriously made our bonuses dependent on that this year since our scores were too low.
Well, I'm pretty sure it's only in Europe ,but still.
 
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Reactions: Far
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Bubble181 said:
Please make sure to give us 10s on the "would recommend to a a friend or family". Literally anything else - yes, a 9/10 - is considered a bad score. And they've seriously made our bonuses dependent on that this year since our scores were too low.
Well, I'm pretty sure it's only in Europe ,but still.
Click to expand...
The Chevy dealership I bought my car from last month told me corporate does the same to them... They dock commissions for anything other than 10s across the board.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

Bubble181 said:
Please make sure to give us 10s on the "would recommend to a a friend or family". Literally anything else - yes, a 9/10 - is considered a bad score. And they've seriously made our bonuses dependent on that this year since our scores were too low.
Well, I'm pretty sure it's only in Europe ,but still.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, I don't think Fedex has ever sent me a survey.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Yeah, that reminds me, i was rating an app a while back, and 4/5 star was labelled "Average"...

Way to make them meaningless...
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

PC didn't arrive until today. Set it up, began the migration process.
Ran 3dmark while the Dell migration assistant was running, so cpu wasn't completely untaxed...but still
1676363807651.png
 
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