[News] No thread yet on Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin?

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BananaHands

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One almost has to wonder if a major split in the Republican party would open up the doors to the idea of a more than two party system. It could be interesting, at least.
I've actually been rooting for this since the Tea Party started having a bigger and bigger influence. Fiscal conservatives breaking away from the party would be the best thing to happen to this country. It'd open the door for additional parties, which would be great.
 
If we could just isolate the zealots and knee-jerk social conservatives so they can't infect others with their stupidity, that would be great.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
There's some people starting to accuse him of being bought off to say what he said and stay in the running. And it turns out his democrat opponent spent a lot of money on campaign ads in Akin's favor during the primary.
 
There's some people starting to accuse him of being bought off to say what he said and stay in the running. And it turns out his democrat opponent spent a lot of money on campaign ads in Akin's favor during the primary.
You'd have to be a moron not to though. All she's saying is, "Please do my work for me."[DOUBLEPOST=1345674605][/DOUBLEPOST]
I'm much less opposed than I probably should be to a joke told by Gabriel Iglasias becoming true life, with a few additions. Let the DNC and RNC put together small groups of people that they think are qualified to run the country, hold very brief primary election cycles, giving the candidates a month at most to get their platforms explained to the masses, then, once we're down to 2 candidates left, hold an American Idol-esque 2 hour TV show called "Who's gonna run this bitch?" and open the phone lines for votes after the show, tabulate all of the votes, and announce the winner the next night.
Great idea, but, who's gonna MC that bitch?
 
Reality has very little to do with political elections. Similarly, there's no guarantee that he actually believes what he said. He could very well have been attempting to appeal to the religious conservative base and not cared that the statement made him look foolish to the secular base, because he doesn't expect the secular base to vote for him in November anyway; and it just backfired on him because either he or his speech writer couldn't figure out a way to say what he said without pissing so many people off. On the other hand, it's also possible that the only reason he wanted to get onto the science committee was so he could weigh in on debates and discussions from the religious perspective.
Does...does anyone actually seriously believe that the average church-going person believes this sort of thing?
 
The average church-going person? No. The shrill, crazy religious right? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Based on what? Where else have you heard it before?

I think Akin said something idiotic on his own. I don't see how/why that ties it to anyone else or why it would mean anyone in any large number shares his beliefs.
 
For more and more every day jobs, you need to take psychotechnical tests, psychosocial tests, assessment after assessment, leadership skill tests, you have to have X years of experience, etc etc.
For politics and running a country, you just need opposition that's more incompetent than you. Or enough idiots of one type to get elected, either way.
No, vetting by the press, that oh so independent and controlled-by-the-people organisation with as their only goal to improve life for everyone, doesn't count.
No, having some government bureau check the applicants for all politically important jobs isn't the solution - far from it.

Still, it's odd that you have to prove your intelligence and leadership skills and so on and so forth to get into middle management of a random company, but not to get into Senate or House or worse.
 

Dave

Staff member
I agree Terrik , the type of people HowDroll is talking about usually believe in stupider and worse ideas than Akins.
I read a story yesterday about a school that started using biometrics to identify students to make it easier and more efficient to pay for school lunch and get them through the line. A bunch of parents threw a hissy fit because biometrics is the precursor to marking our children with the "mark of the beast" from revelations.

Think that's crazy? Google "mark of the beast biometrics". 116,000 hits. Droll is spot on.
 
Just what would it cost Disney to tell Pat Robertson he's not getting a free ride for the 700 Club on ABC Family anymore? Isn't there anyone in that company with enough balls to tell that senile, bigoted piece of excrement to just dry up and blow away?
 
What'd I miss? Disney? Pat Robertson?
Just riffing on the religious whackjobbery...

Pat Robertson put in a clause that whoever purchased the latest incarnation of what started life as CBN (The Family Channel, Fox Family, now ABC Family) was contractually bound to air the 700 Club in perpetuity. So you buy the network, you're stuck with Pat, even though he sold his interest in it decades ago.

Who has the cojones to tell him to fuck off and tear up that contract in the name of common decency?
 

Dave

Staff member
Just riffing on the religious whackjobbery...

Pat Robertson put in a clause that whoever purchased the latest incarnation of what started life as CBN (The Family Channel, Fox Family, now ABC Family) was contractually bound to air the 700 Club in perpetuity. So you buy the network, you're stuck with Pat, even though he sold his interest in it decades ago.

Who has the cojones to tell him to fuck off and tear up that contract in the name of common decency?
Well, you can't just tear it up, but there has to be an end to it somewhere. If there's not then you're stuck with him unless you want them to get sued and give them lots of money that way.
 
I read a story yesterday about a school that started using biometrics to identify students to make it easier and more efficient to pay for school lunch and get them through the line. A bunch of parents threw a hissy fit because biometrics is the precursor to marking our children with the "mark of the beast" from revelations.

Think that's crazy? Google "mark of the beast biometrics". 116,000 hits. Droll is spot on.
Wow...

It still amazes me that this kind of thing can happen in the US. I guess it clashes hard with the image I had as a kid of the US being the most advanced country in the world, which must still be there somewhere.
 
We are the most advanced society, but we still have a large number of kooks. It just comes from being such a large nation.
I think you don't do yourselves any favor by just dismissing bigotry as a natural consequence of being so many people. The US has about 300 million people, whereas Europe has about 700 million*, and I'd say we don't have nearly as much religious bigotry, or at least it doesn't have as much impact on politics...

(Maybe we have a more racism instead, and that has its own causes we need to address)

*If you prefer we can compare to individual countries. France has about 60M people, Spain 46M. Ratio of 5 and about 7 respectively, the comparison still works. I don't have news of creationism almost being taught in Science class here...

In the same vein, a more nuanced view in which you aren't THE most advanced society but perhaps more advanced in some respects. That's the way to keep advancing.
 
I think you don't do yourselves any favor by just dismissing bigotry as a natural consequence of being so many people. The US has about 300 million people, whereas Europe has about 700 million*, and I'd say we don't have nearly as much religious bigotry, or at least it doesn't have as much impact on politics...

(Maybe we have a more racism instead, and that has its own causes we need to address)

*If you prefer we can compare to individual countries. France has about 60M people, Spain 46M. Ratio of 5 and about 7 respectively, the comparison still works. I don't have news of creationism almost being taught in Science class here...

In the same vein, a more nuanced view in which you aren't THE most advanced society but perhaps more advanced in some respects. That's the way to keep advancing.
While I agree with you, I think you're forgetting such lovely new European countries as Poland and throwbacks like Italy, where the Catholic Church still has waaaayyyy too much power.

What I don't understand is why practically all large and institutionalized versions of Christianity (not all) end up in the far-right-wing nutjob fringe on the ethical scale. Antisemitism? Anti-women? Anti-gay? And so on and so on - none of that has anything to do with what Christ taught. Eh well.
 
I think it has to do with large and instituzionalized, more than with Christianity. Or with these organizations being traditional and bringing in more the traditional sort of people.

On Europe and the church: I live in Spain, for Chrissake, and still don't feel this kind of thing happens nearly as much.

PS.: Ok, I see there was controversy about creationism in schools some years ago in Poland. My point is weakened but I think it still stands.
 
They could run a chimp with an (R) by their name and a great lot of idiots would vote for them. We could say the same for the (D) but I'd be willing to bet that the number would be far, far lower.
I'd be willing to take that bet.  I haven't seen any great evidence that those on the left are any less fervent in voting for "their guy/party/ideology/dude who's against the dude who believes things you hate for some reason".
 

Necronic

Staff member
It's hard to tell if Europe has less religious bigotry for a couple reasons

1) There are almost zero immigrants in a lot of Europe when compared to the US. Comparing cultural tolerances in places which have different quantities of immigrants is really hard.

2) On the other hand, Europe is simply geographically closer to a lot of foreign cultures, like the middle east, which means that the influences you feel from them may be stronger than we do. Similar to the immigrant thing, but different side of the coin. Americas southern border brings in a strong Catholic influence, but it's northern border is culturally insignificant. There's a reason we call Canada our hat.

3) While Europe may have less religious bigotry, it also may have less religious tolerance. France is a good example of the kind of laws that would NEVER be accepted in the US (outlawing Burka's in public or religious symbols in public schools.)
 
I'd be willing to take that bet.  I haven't seen any great evidence that those on the left are any less fervent in voting for "their guy/party/ideology/dude who's against the dude who believes things you hate for some reason".
Hmmm. I dunno. I think there's a lot more "moderates" and "undecideds" who vote mostly Democrat, and therefore, wouldn't vote for the chimp. Let's say there's (ass-pulled figures incoming!) 10% who will vote Democrat no matter what, because Republicans are soulless moneywhores who want to force unwanted babies on minority semi-slave workers. I'd guess there's at least double the amount of people who'll vote Republican no matter what, because Democrats are heathen communists who want to take your guns, kill your babies, and turn the States into a big socialist welfare camp, paid for out of the pockets of the working man. More undecided/moderate votes go to the Democrats, but those are always more fickle and more prone to running away - and they won't vote for a chimp.
 
I don't think the Akin situation reveals anything about the right wing as specific as his view. What I DO think it brings to light is the misogynistic undertones that seem to have permeated the conservative right for a long time now. I find it very disturbing. I think view like his are very prevalent in a lot of Christianity and in many parts of America.

There are some attitudes towards women in this country that I really think the right wing needs to shake off if they want to be able to not be looked at as nuts.
 
Well, you can't just tear it up, but there has to be an end to it somewhere. If there's not then you're stuck with him unless you want them to get sued and give them lots of money that way.
That's just it. Disney's legal team could just destroy him, if they really wanted to make an effort. Even if he eventually "won", it would more likely be his estate's estate's estate that would ever collect any settlement.
 
It's hard to tell if Europe has less religious bigotry for a couple reasons

1) There are almost zero immigrants in a lot of Europe when compared to the US. Comparing cultural tolerances in places which have different quantities of immigrants is really hard.
Dude, that's been untrue for almost 20 years. The idea of the USA as the big melting pot vs the monocultural Europe is complete nonsense. Almost 40% of people in Belgium (and we're smack-dab in the heart of the EU, not on the borders, so compare us to, say, Kansas or Colorado, geographically speaking) has roots in the last 2 generations outisde of the EU. It goes up to over 60% if you include other EU countries (and yes, Spain or Finland or Poland have a different culture than Belgium or each other.) Literally over 50% of children born last year had parents of a non-EU origin. There are now more practicing muslims than practising Christians in Belgium (according to official figures from 2010).

2) On the other hand, Europe is simply geographically closer to a lot of foreign cultures, like the middle east, which means that the influences you feel from them may be stronger than we do. Similar to the immigrant thing, but different side of the coin. Americas southern border brings in a strong Catholic influence, but it's northern border is culturally insignificant. There's a reason we call Canada our hat.
Meh, you're saying Canada and the US are one and the same culture throughout? I don't agree at all, but let's agree to disagree.

3) While Europe may have less religious bigotry, it also may have less religious tolerance. France is a good example of the kind of laws that would NEVER be accepted in the US (outlawing Burka's in public or religious symbols in public schools.)
On the other hand, school books presenting creationism as a valid scientific theory on the same level as evolution would NEVER be accepted in practically all of Western Europe. Different emphasis placed on different things. Outlawing religious symbols in public schools, to me, points in entirely the opposite direction: it's a sign of acceptance, plurality and tolerance, not the other way around. Public schools, run and paid for by the state, have to be neutral, open and inviting to everyone. Loading them up with crucifixes, praying before the school day, taking the class to mass,... are not acceptable when you're dealing with people of dozens of religions.
Anyway, the difference in what would be "acceptable" and what not, is mostly one of the way you look at religion. In (Western) Europe, it's quickly becoming generally accepted that religion is perfectly fine, but no religion whatsoever should meddle with/interfere in public life on any level. Do whatever you want in name of your religion - but do it at home, out of sight, and without showing it or forcing it on anyone else. Be it slaughtering a sheep according to religious rites, fasting a month, covering your hair, circumsizing your children, baptising your babies, or whatever.
In the USA, just like in most of the Middle East, there's still a significant part of the population which believes a church (no matter which one - the one those people happen to belong to) has a right/obligation to try and enforce their ethical and moral views on the rest of society. Whether you're a muslim stoning a woman for not covering her hair, or a christian threatening women who need an abortion, it's equally disgusting and dispicable. Your religion is your concern, not mine. Don't force it on me and I won't force mine on you. Living according to the Sharia or according Leviticus is equally backwards and against my - and many Europeans - principles.
 
That pic reminds me of the Conservatives in Britain during WWI. They wanted the Army to recall all of the steel helmets, because they were causing more head wounds.

Not to say that the death rate from shrapnel fell significantly, but because those that would have died without the helmet is now costing us more money because they have more wounded.

Always be wary of politicians when they throw around baseless statistics.
 
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