[Movies] MCU: Phase 3 And Beyond
- Thread starter BananaHands
- Start date
Man, judging by the trailer I guess Riggan Thomson went down a darker road than we thought! But seriously though it looks awesome. But whose Pete's friend while we're at it? Eddie Brock? I hope so, can't wait for the not-racist racists complaining about it.
It's Ganke in all but name, so ... Miles territory again.
From what others are saying, it's Ned Leeds.
Yep Tobey was a great Peter, okay Spiderman. Andrew, not a great peter, awesome Spiderman.
Right, Spiderman.
GasBandit
Staff member
Why does She-Hulk need web?HYPHEN! Spider-man!
That's not web... she, uh, kind of gets around.
figmentPez
Staff member
The next Spider-man movie after Homecoming already has a release date, July 5, 2019.
I suspected this was going to be how it went. Sony will want to see the cash influx, meaning more Spidey movies than others. I don't have a problem with it as long as they start scripting as early as they're announcing release dates.
I suspected this was going to be how it went. Sony will want to see the cash influx, meaning more Spidey movies than others. I don't have a problem with it as long as they start scripting as early as they're announcing release dates.
So, since I did a a top-to-bottom list of X-Men movies, I figured I'd do one for the Avengers films, too. I should add that I don't think any of them are "bad" movies. Unlike some of the worst X-Men movies, they're all enjoyable and watchable in their own way. Kind of like Pixar movies: even a bad one is an enjoyable movie.
1) The Winter Solder
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) The Avengers
4) Captain America The First Avenger
5) Civil War
6) Thor
7) Iron Man
8) Ant-Man
9) Dr. Strange
10) Age of Ultron
11) Iron Man 3
12) Thor The Dark World
13) Iron Man 2
14) Incredible Hulk
Some reasoning behind this list:
-I firmly believe the Captain America trilogy is the best trilogy we've seen in a long time. All three of them are fantastic and amazingly diverse. Chris Evans is the true MVP of the MCU, arguably bigger than Robert Downy Jr.
-Iron Man 1 is lower on the list largely for the third act. Which was fine, but the villain suddenly went from a backstabbing backstage player to a cackling, rampaging madman. The final fight is largely forgettable.
-On the other hand, I think Thor does a great job of introducing fantastical elements to the Marvel Universe. And it does it by telling a simple, down to earth redemption story. Plus, the designs were largely based on Jack Kirby's work, so who can say that's ever a bad thing?
-I thought about putting Age of Ultron higher, but really, compared to the others above it, they are better films overall. I liked AoU more than other people and don't think it's that bad. It's a major disappointment after the jaw-dropping first Avengers.
-Ant-Man and Dr. Strange are probably interchangeable.
1) The Winter Solder
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) The Avengers
4) Captain America The First Avenger
5) Civil War
6) Thor
7) Iron Man
8) Ant-Man
9) Dr. Strange
10) Age of Ultron
11) Iron Man 3
12) Thor The Dark World
13) Iron Man 2
14) Incredible Hulk
Some reasoning behind this list:
-I firmly believe the Captain America trilogy is the best trilogy we've seen in a long time. All three of them are fantastic and amazingly diverse. Chris Evans is the true MVP of the MCU, arguably bigger than Robert Downy Jr.
-Iron Man 1 is lower on the list largely for the third act. Which was fine, but the villain suddenly went from a backstabbing backstage player to a cackling, rampaging madman. The final fight is largely forgettable.
-On the other hand, I think Thor does a great job of introducing fantastical elements to the Marvel Universe. And it does it by telling a simple, down to earth redemption story. Plus, the designs were largely based on Jack Kirby's work, so who can say that's ever a bad thing?
-I thought about putting Age of Ultron higher, but really, compared to the others above it, they are better films overall. I liked AoU more than other people and don't think it's that bad. It's a major disappointment after the jaw-dropping first Avengers.
-Ant-Man and Dr. Strange are probably interchangeable.
GasBandit
Staff member
I feel differently than you about CA:FA, IM1 and Thor1. Captain America: The First Avenger kinda fell flat for me when I saw it in the theater. I mean, it wasn't bad, but it was just OK. Same for Thor 1, and I thought IM1 was uhMAAAAzing. IM1 and 2 kept me interested in the MCU as a whole when CA:FA and Thor were fizzling out. I also think the Dark World was WAY better than Thor 1.
For me, I guess, the List goes (bearing in mind I didn't even bother watching Incredible Hulk):
1) Winter Soldier
2) GOTG
3) Ant Man
4) Avengers
5) Civil War
6) IM2
7) Dr. Strange
8) IM
9) Thor 2 (Dark World)
10) CA: First Avenger
11) Thor
12) Age of Ultron
13) IM3
The first 5 items on my list are neck and neck, and the last two should be numbered somewhere in the 20s, really - they were almost Fox bad.
For me, I guess, the List goes (bearing in mind I didn't even bother watching Incredible Hulk):
1) Winter Soldier
2) GOTG
3) Ant Man
4) Avengers
5) Civil War
6) IM2
7) Dr. Strange
8) IM
9) Thor 2 (Dark World)
10) CA: First Avenger
11) Thor
12) Age of Ultron
13) IM3
The first 5 items on my list are neck and neck, and the last two should be numbered somewhere in the 20s, really - they were almost Fox bad.
I think Incredible Hulk's worth at least one watch. It's not bad, but it's mostly forgettable and doesn't really matter much in the big scheme of things.
See, I guess I loved First Avenger for a few reasons: it's a great period piece, it's directed the same guy that did the criminally underrated Rocketeer, Chris Evans completely owns the character, and it feels like a great pulp adventure, complete with action montages to show the passage of time throughout the war.
IM2 is fine and as I said, not a bad movie. But it's the first movie where they're trying to tie everything in, to show that they have future plans, and it's a little sloppy. Whiplash doesn't really do much (and is punked out at the end like nothing). But RDJ and company still manage to make it fun.
I really don't agree that the last two are Fox bad. IM3 has its problems, but it's still a great action flick. And to this day, I still don't understand the hate for Age of Ultron. Even if I'll admit it has its issues.
See, I guess I loved First Avenger for a few reasons: it's a great period piece, it's directed the same guy that did the criminally underrated Rocketeer, Chris Evans completely owns the character, and it feels like a great pulp adventure, complete with action montages to show the passage of time throughout the war.
IM2 is fine and as I said, not a bad movie. But it's the first movie where they're trying to tie everything in, to show that they have future plans, and it's a little sloppy. Whiplash doesn't really do much (and is punked out at the end like nothing). But RDJ and company still manage to make it fun.
I really don't agree that the last two are Fox bad. IM3 has its problems, but it's still a great action flick. And to this day, I still don't understand the hate for Age of Ultron. Even if I'll admit it has its issues.
GasBandit
Staff member
For me, at least, it's because Ultron (the character) was such a crappy villain, for me, mostly. He had one moment of being genuinely menacing, right near the beginning, but after that, he completely and utterly failed to act like Ultron. He felt generic. Like a random guy in a metal suit, not a horrifying AI gone genocidal.
That, and the action was kinda blah, and it felt like they killed off quicksilver to check a box on a list, and just all in all it was a pretty sorry followup to the epic and amazing Avengers 1.
The "everybody tries to lift the hammer" bit was endearing though, and is pretty much the reason I didn't demand a refund.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah, I kinda agree there.. Civil War was the sequel Avengers deserved, and Ultron was... well...
I thought the action was great. Not as good as the first one, but still very good. And you're certainly not wrong about Ultron. It felt more like an excuse to give the team something to hit for two hours.
Personally, like the first Avengers, I felt it was largely just an excuse to get everyone together and watch all these different personalities play off each other. As you said, the life-the-hammer scene was endearing, and that's what I enjoy most out of both Avengers movie (and Civil War): seeing this variety of characters with different powers and personalities play off each other. And it's clear the cast has a blast doing it, too, which makes it even more fun.
MovieBob described the first Avengers more as a celebration that they managed to pull off what many thought was impossible, complete with a 45-minute fireworks display for the finale. And he's not wrong. On its surface, the first Avengers is a very basic story that's mostly well paced, but also mostly just an excuse to see all these characters clash with each other. Age of Ultron was more of that, so I can't really complain.
Of course, Civil War blows it out of the water and says, "See? THIS is how you make all these different personalities clash."
fade
Staff member
This is exactly the problem I had with Nolan/Ledger's Joker. Aside from the makeup, he was a generic psychopath villain. He could've been pulled from any of those mid-to-late 90s movies that were obsessed with psychopaths. There was nothing particularly "Joker-y" about him. I realize I'm outnumbered in thinking this, but think it I do.
Movies with Mikey made me appreciate - at the very least - Ledger's performance more than before. I think he raises a lot of solid points about this particular Joker.
This is my beef with most of these movies, including dumb shit like Transformers. The villains are all awful.
I think only Loki manages to be an endearing villain, probably because they didn't just kill him off immediately like they normally do.
GasBandit
Staff member
Arnim Zola was a better technovillain for his 5 minutes in Winter Soldier than Ultron was in all of Age of Ultron (except for the post-party initial confrontation).
Not to mention, Alexander Pierce was a terrifyingly effective villain throughout Winter Soldier, and was very nearly successful in his goals. And he never took a threat lightly. Blew up the heroes with a missile? Send a platoon of armed goons to be sure. Taking him captive in an elevator? Use a dozen large, well trained men with stun weapons, restraints, and armed backup at the ready.
And The Winter Soldier himself - as Pierce's secret weapon, he was terrifyingly lethal. When loyal S.H.I.E.L.D. aircrews were set to help Cap and Falcon take down the helicarriers, he tore through them like a tornado through a field of wheat. He nearly killed Nick Fury, shot Black Widow (twice), and rampaged his way through the entire J-SOC base in Civil War. Not to mention one of the best theme songs ever:
Since, you were all wondering, "Gee, what does drawn_inward think about super-hero movies?":
1) Iron Man
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) Civil War
4) The Avengers
5) Ant-Man
6) Thor
7) Captain America The First Avenger
8) Iron Man 2
9) Incredible Hulk
10) Winter Soldier
11) Iron Man 3
12) Thor The Dark World
13) Age of Ultron
Dr. Strange - haven't seen it. The wife wanted to see that shitty harry potter movie instead. Am I bitter? Yes.
I can't drop Iron Man from no. 1. It was just so good. Technically, should bump GotG and CW above it since I have watched both of those multiple times, but Iron Man was so refreshingly good. I enjoyed every second of that movie. While, I agree with Nick that Chris Evans was made to play the Cap, and I really do like his character. I was bored by the first two movies. I didn't like that they shoe-horned weak-sauce characters in those films.
Thor has turned out to be a fairly boring character.
Like the rest of you. I do like all of them for the most part.
1) Iron Man
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) Civil War
4) The Avengers
5) Ant-Man
6) Thor
7) Captain America The First Avenger
8) Iron Man 2
9) Incredible Hulk
10) Winter Soldier
11) Iron Man 3
12) Thor The Dark World
13) Age of Ultron
Dr. Strange - haven't seen it. The wife wanted to see that shitty harry potter movie instead. Am I bitter? Yes.
I can't drop Iron Man from no. 1. It was just so good. Technically, should bump GotG and CW above it since I have watched both of those multiple times, but Iron Man was so refreshingly good. I enjoyed every second of that movie. While, I agree with Nick that Chris Evans was made to play the Cap, and I really do like his character. I was bored by the first two movies. I didn't like that they shoe-horned weak-sauce characters in those films.
Thor has turned out to be a fairly boring character.
Like the rest of you. I do like all of them for the most part.
Since this is now a thing, might as well give my take on it.
1) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) Captain America: Civil War
4) Ant-Man
5) The Avengers
6) Iron Man
7) Thor
8) Captain America: The First Avenger
9) Iron Man 2
10) Incredible Hulk
11) Iron Man 3
12) Age of Ultron
13) Thor: The Dark World
I haven't seen Dr. Strange, but I'd imagine it'd be around #6 or 7.
Why is Thor: The Dark World so low? Because Jane Foster is a millstone for most of the movie and Natalie Portman was obviously phoning it in; because Malekith was terrible, being unsympathetic, dull, and self-sabotaging; because Odin took a tremendous level in Jerkass; because of the drab color palette for most of it; because the Dark Elves aside from Kurse were impossible to take as a serious threat; because the Einherjar thus came off as kind of pathetic;because the only truly entertaining scenes happened with Loki.
Age of Ultron also suffers from Whedon and the studio visibly being at odds, and as a result failing to tell a complete story. And honestly, the Hulk/Widow chemistry was at best strained. The movie feels like there's a lot missing and too many ideas are introduced that don't really pay off during the movie itself, even if they might in later films.
1) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) Captain America: Civil War
4) Ant-Man
5) The Avengers
6) Iron Man
7) Thor
8) Captain America: The First Avenger
9) Iron Man 2
10) Incredible Hulk
11) Iron Man 3
12) Age of Ultron
13) Thor: The Dark World
I haven't seen Dr. Strange, but I'd imagine it'd be around #6 or 7.
Why is Thor: The Dark World so low? Because Jane Foster is a millstone for most of the movie and Natalie Portman was obviously phoning it in; because Malekith was terrible, being unsympathetic, dull, and self-sabotaging; because Odin took a tremendous level in Jerkass; because of the drab color palette for most of it; because the Dark Elves aside from Kurse were impossible to take as a serious threat; because the Einherjar thus came off as kind of pathetic;because the only truly entertaining scenes happened with Loki.
Age of Ultron also suffers from Whedon and the studio visibly being at odds, and as a result failing to tell a complete story. And honestly, the Hulk/Widow chemistry was at best strained. The movie feels like there's a lot missing and too many ideas are introduced that don't really pay off during the movie itself, even if they might in later films.
What weak-sauce characters and how were they shoe-horned in?
At the time of release I didn't think that they would top The Avengers movie and yet here we are.
1) Guardians of the Galaxy
2) The Avengers
3) Captain America: The First Avenger
4) Iron Man
5) Ant-Man
6) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
7) Age of Ultron
8) Thor: The Dark World
9) Thor
10) Captain America: Civil War
11) Iron Man 3
12) Iron Man 2
13) Incredible Hulk
Iron Man is a tough one for me since it holds a special place as being the movie that established the universe and made it clear that Marvel could put together a hell of a movie
1) Guardians of the Galaxy
2) The Avengers
3) Captain America: The First Avenger
4) Iron Man
5) Ant-Man
6) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
7) Age of Ultron
8) Thor: The Dark World
9) Thor
10) Captain America: Civil War
11) Iron Man 3
12) Iron Man 2
13) Incredible Hulk
Iron Man is a tough one for me since it holds a special place as being the movie that established the universe and made it clear that Marvel could put together a hell of a movie
1. Guardians of the Galaxy
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America
4. Captain America: Civil War
5. The Avengers
6. Doctor Strange
7. Iron Man
8. Ant-Man
9. Thor
10. Avengers: Age of Ultron
11. Iron Man 3
12. Iron Man 2
13. The Incredible Hulk
14. Thor: The Dark World
These lists are going to get more difficult as these movies keep coming.
Anyway, here's a fun video:
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America
4. Captain America: Civil War
5. The Avengers
6. Doctor Strange
7. Iron Man
8. Ant-Man
9. Thor
10. Avengers: Age of Ultron
11. Iron Man 3
12. Iron Man 2
13. The Incredible Hulk
14. Thor: The Dark World
These lists are going to get more difficult as these movies keep coming.
Anyway, here's a fun video:
I'll get flak for this, but Hawkeye and Black Widow.
They haven't done well with their female characters (the secondary roles are good, but the leads are weak), IMHO. Hawkeye was better in Civil War, but has been a dud for me.[DOUBLEPOST=1485190997,1485190630][/DOUBLEPOST]Man - I am in the minority when it comes to Winter Soldier. I must have missed something.
Disclaimer: I have two toddlers, and most nights, we (my wife and I) get to watch 1/2 a movie a night. So, movies enjoyment does suffer a bit. I'll give it another shot some day.
They're both staple characters of the Avengers comics, though, so that's hardly shoe-horned in. I wouldn't call them weak-sauce, either. They both got their hits in on Loki during throughout the movie (Widow actually tricking him by playing the weak woman, Hawkeye with his trick exploding arrow that blasts Loki out of the sky). Like Hawkeye said himself, "The city's flying, there's an army of robots, and I have a bow and arrow. None of this makes any sense." That's them literally saying, "Don't think about it too much."
I 100% agree on their treatment of female characters, though. Personally, I'd love to see a Black Widow solo movie that also includes Maria Hill and Sharon Carter. That'd be badass.[DOUBLEPOST=1485191117,1485191017][/DOUBLEPOST]
That might be exactly why. It's a movie you gotta watch from beginning to end, I think, to really appreciate the pacing and intrigue. Not to say it's some deep political thriller, but it's definitely more complicated than Marvel's usual basic story arcs.
I'm hoping that the MCU produces an excellent Captain Marvel movie. First, I like the cosmic origins movies (Guardians is my second favorite MCU film). Second, it would just be weird having a character named Ms. Marvel. Third, it would be nice to see a female lead done right. Fourth, I'd get to see the MRAs on Reddit completely lose their shit once again.
GasBandit
Staff member
Heh, I can almost hear the dialog already.
"Well then, Miss Marvel..."
"Captain. Captain Marvel. Savvy?"
I would also like a Ms. Marvel movie - it could be sweet.
The films are drowning in dudes. How could anyone complain about a lead female character? My complaint is due to the lack of well-written female leads. Not the damsel in distress/love interest. They got it so right with Jessica Jones. I know they had tons of time to build her character so it's not fair. I just want a good female lead in the films. I don't think Black Widow is it. Scarlett Witch has potential. Gamora has a decent character developing. We'll see what they do with her in the second film. Ms Marvel could be great.
The films are drowning in dudes. How could anyone complain about a lead female character? My complaint is due to the lack of well-written female leads. Not the damsel in distress/love interest. They got it so right with Jessica Jones. I know they had tons of time to build her character so it's not fair. I just want a good female lead in the films. I don't think Black Widow is it. Scarlett Witch has potential. Gamora has a decent character developing. We'll see what they do with her in the second film. Ms Marvel could be great.