Jeremy Conquers Everything
- Thread starter fade
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I like it though I don't think that I quite get it. It's like an adultish Shel Silverstein. Did you do the fonts too?
fade
Staff member
It wasn't for kids. It's just in that style.
No it's "Swingset" from Blambot.
I had trouble following it at first, but that was only because the images loaded out of sequence so it was a moment or two before I could read the whole thing.
I still feel like it is missing a panel just before "they came into Jeremy's room...," and also I felt the "the gun was made of iron" panel would be better moved to after the "Jeremy boughtthe an irony gun" panel. Yes I know it breaks the flashback-ness of the flow and the set-up of early tension, but the simplicity of the dialogue and curiosity about the string metaphor should still be enough to encourage readers to journey through the narrative.
Otherwise, the story is very evocative of Silverstein, and quite compelling, even if you make no changes. It does feel very much like one of those stories you wake up with in your head along with the I MUST COMMIT THIS TO PAPER AT ONCE urge.
--Patrick
I still feel like it is missing a panel just before "they came into Jeremy's room...," and also I felt the "the gun was made of iron" panel would be better moved to after the "Jeremy bought
Otherwise, the story is very evocative of Silverstein, and quite compelling, even if you make no changes. It does feel very much like one of those stories you wake up with in your head along with the I MUST COMMIT THIS TO PAPER AT ONCE urge.
--Patrick
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I did want to chime in from the perspective of someone who does battle with depression. The string metaphor was really resonant. The reason I said that the first 3 panels don't work is that the framing device doesn't really work that well. And as Patrthom said, I think it's not the first three, but mostly the gun panel that doesn't work where it is. I like the ironic pun, though, so I wouldn't want you to take it out.
I also have to say, the art is AMAZING for the way you're presenting this.
Honestly, I'd like to see you work on it a little bit and try for publication. I think that this would be really resonant with people with depression, particularly those with a creative drive (those two populations are usually pretty correlated).
I also have to say, the art is AMAZING for the way you're presenting this.
Honestly, I'd like to see you work on it a little bit and try for publication. I think that this would be really resonant with people with depression, particularly those with a creative drive (those two populations are usually pretty correlated).
fade
Staff member
I appreciate the feedback. I have to say I really like the flashback, myself. I think it would feel rudderless as a story without the framing it first.
I'll have to think about the gun page. I like it less at the end because if it's at the beginning, the reader knows this is very serious. Something has to happen or it's bad. Showing the gun introduces tension, that carries through the flashback. It feels like you guys don't like the abruptness, which is actually what I was going for. Kind of an arthouse film smash-cut kind of deal.[DOUBLEPOST=1428341720,1428341566][/DOUBLEPOST]The more I think about it, maybe it's a flow thing, because the gun page doesn't flow smoothly in dialogue. Maybe there's a page missing before the ironic gun page, or some reworking of dialogue.[DOUBLEPOST=1428342029][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, I don't talk about it a lot, but you can probably guess this is pretty personal.
I'll have to think about the gun page. I like it less at the end because if it's at the beginning, the reader knows this is very serious. Something has to happen or it's bad. Showing the gun introduces tension, that carries through the flashback. It feels like you guys don't like the abruptness, which is actually what I was going for. Kind of an arthouse film smash-cut kind of deal.[DOUBLEPOST=1428341720,1428341566][/DOUBLEPOST]The more I think about it, maybe it's a flow thing, because the gun page doesn't flow smoothly in dialogue. Maybe there's a page missing before the ironic gun page, or some reworking of dialogue.[DOUBLEPOST=1428342029][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, I don't talk about it a lot, but you can probably guess this is pretty personal.
When I first read it, I thought we had jumped to a different story after the gun page. It wasn't till a few pages later that I realized it was all one story. I really liked it though.
I too thought there had been some weird jump with the gun intro, like the forum had loaded the images in the wrong order.
But for the content, style, etc, it does resonate. Not everyone who's had depression/suicidal thoughts will see the same thing as resonant though, so don't lose confidence in it if someone who's had those things says they don't connect with it, because others who've had will (and already have).
But for the content, style, etc, it does resonate. Not everyone who's had depression/suicidal thoughts will see the same thing as resonant though, so don't lose confidence in it if someone who's had those things says they don't connect with it, because others who've had will (and already have).
I'd like it if there was some sort of visual cue that it's all related. Maybe part of it is we didn't know what to expect. For all we knew you did a bunch of short strips. If it's packaged as one long story it might work better.[DOUBLEPOST=1428346751,1428346648][/DOUBLEPOST]I do like that the gun scene is at the beginning. I don't think it would have the same impact if it was at the end.
fade
Staff member
My usual editor says she thinks it might be the use of the article "the", as in "the gun" as though I established it already. I can see that. It's a trope I see a lot of in children's books, and I was copying that style, where "thing" is established in the picture. Like "Billy caught the ball".
(Context edit: I composed this when the thread still ended at Dave's post)
-To touch on my rework again, I would change the panel to read "Jeremy bought an iron gun." That saves the "irony" reveal for the later panel and also serves to build apprehension as the reader gets to surf Jeremy's rationalization but has no power to turn him.
-I would then cut the "the gun was made of iron" panel from where it appears earlier and paste it unchanged to between the "bought" and "he sat on the bed an pointed it at himself" panels. The flashback/smash/jump cut that hooks the reader then becomes the "for no good reason, Jeremy cried" panel. Most comics span three panels, with the third panel being a tidy summation of the gag (Dilbert, Fox Trot, Garfield) but in your case, the third panel has him crying and is more open-ended, leaving a question in the reader's mind that can only be answered by reading further.
-I still think the flow demands another panel between the "string about his wrist" panel and the "they came into..." panel. I would suggest that that panel be solid white with no illustration/image at all and only the words "There were others." This serves as a framework to hang the insufficiently defined "they" in the next panel (while leaving it vague enough to not specifically be family/friends/counselors/peers) and the starkness of that three word admission/reminder sans any distracting image should be a powerful punch to the gut, especially for the depressed reader. The lack of imagery should also demonstrate that this is the point where the narrative changes direction.
I think the above changes would serve to make the whole resonate more with the depressed reader. You are of course under no obligation to use them, but I would encourage you to test those changes with people who aren't you and see what they have to say.
--Patrick
-To touch on my rework again, I would change the panel to read "Jeremy bought an iron gun." That saves the "irony" reveal for the later panel and also serves to build apprehension as the reader gets to surf Jeremy's rationalization but has no power to turn him.
-I would then cut the "the gun was made of iron" panel from where it appears earlier and paste it unchanged to between the "bought" and "he sat on the bed an pointed it at himself" panels. The flashback/smash/jump cut that hooks the reader then becomes the "for no good reason, Jeremy cried" panel. Most comics span three panels, with the third panel being a tidy summation of the gag (Dilbert, Fox Trot, Garfield) but in your case, the third panel has him crying and is more open-ended, leaving a question in the reader's mind that can only be answered by reading further.
-I still think the flow demands another panel between the "string about his wrist" panel and the "they came into..." panel. I would suggest that that panel be solid white with no illustration/image at all and only the words "There were others." This serves as a framework to hang the insufficiently defined "they" in the next panel (while leaving it vague enough to not specifically be family/friends/counselors/peers) and the starkness of that three word admission/reminder sans any distracting image should be a powerful punch to the gut, especially for the depressed reader. The lack of imagery should also demonstrate that this is the point where the narrative changes direction.
I think the above changes would serve to make the whole resonate more with the depressed reader. You are of course under no obligation to use them, but I would encourage you to test those changes with people who aren't you and see what they have to say.
--Patrick
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If you didn't genuinely want the criticism, then you wouldn't have posted it here and asked us to do so.
I know it can feel a bit like stopping and asking for directions, but if you're willing to open up and solicit our opinions, then we should respond by trying to give you quality critiques.
--Patrick
Jeremy spoke in class today.
I'm a fan of the smash cut. Though I'm not entirely sure I like the "sudden string around wrist" panel. I'd have imagined someone pulling a string leading to his wrist itself. Though I may be completely wrong in my interpretation of the string.
BTW fade, I really do like the art quite a bit.
I think that works much better. It helps it flow a lot better. With that added, I don't even find the jump as disjointed. I think maybe that was the issue with the first couple of panels. The jump after a couple of rather disjointed panels threw it out of whack.
I likes it.
Also, as for the metaphor of the string, my interpretation is that it is basic curiosity and skepticism. The need to pull the world (and life) apart and understand how it works. The problem is that the more you pull on that sting, the more it unravels the world in a way that you can no longer recognize it and put it back the way it was leaving you unable to feel the world the way everyone else does. So, the string becomes pain over time, but the pain can be used, harnessed and focused into beautiful things, such as the musicians. They are people who take the pain and knowledge that they've gained by "pulling their string" to restore a little bit of that unwinding. This overwhelming drive to pick the world apart can both be a blessing and a curse. To me, it speaks to the dichotomy of being a scientist/skeptic and an artist. They're two drives that kind of work contrary to each other, pulling between the head and the heart.
That was my interpretation, take it or leave it. The reason that I thought the jump worked contrary to that is that was that the string leads, drawing the main character along.
I likes it.
Also, as for the metaphor of the string, my interpretation is that it is basic curiosity and skepticism. The need to pull the world (and life) apart and understand how it works. The problem is that the more you pull on that sting, the more it unravels the world in a way that you can no longer recognize it and put it back the way it was leaving you unable to feel the world the way everyone else does. So, the string becomes pain over time, but the pain can be used, harnessed and focused into beautiful things, such as the musicians. They are people who take the pain and knowledge that they've gained by "pulling their string" to restore a little bit of that unwinding. This overwhelming drive to pick the world apart can both be a blessing and a curse. To me, it speaks to the dichotomy of being a scientist/skeptic and an artist. They're two drives that kind of work contrary to each other, pulling between the head and the heart.
That was my interpretation, take it or leave it. The reason that I thought the jump worked contrary to that is that was that the string leads, drawing the main character along.
fade
Staff member
Well, damn, I forgot all about that song. Wonder how much I was subconsciously inspired.
You are grunge.