[News] Israel will never satisfy its lust for dead women and children

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I feel like if this was the U.S. in Israel's position, opinions would shift differently, mainly because of the "say one thing, do another". Israel isn't expressing a regret for the loss of life while killing people, whereas the U.S. would totally be doing that to try appearing more sympathetic as the shellings continued. And it's not like the U.S. wouldn't do this if the cartels really took over Mexico and began threatening our borders with levels of violence that would make Hamas look sweet.
You beat me to the example.

Seriously ask the question: what if the Cartels took control of Northern Mexico, and the central government could do NOTHING to stop them, and even maybe brought them into their government to "control" them a bit? And then they started lobbing mortars over the border. Or missiles that could hit all of Los Angelas. And any other cities with 200-ish miles of the border. What would your government's response to this be? What would your PEOPLE demand the response to this be? And throw in the idea that Mexicans might see most of California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas as "theirs" and "stolen" by Americans in the Mexican-American war, and want a "right of return" even for descendants of refugees? And remember, they're firing the missiles from Churches, Schools, and Hospitals, almost-exclusively, so if you want to destroy the missiles, you MUST kill innocents too.

Way to parallel? Too much? TOO BAD! That's a disturbingly-close parallel to what is happening in Israel. Except the fighting has actually started.


TLDR: If 200+ miles of the USA-Mexico border was getting rocket attacks constantly, with tunnels & human shields being used, what would you advocate for your government to do?
 
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Considering current cartel tactics, it'd be less missiles at our cities and more of, each morning find another ten families who were raped and then taken apart by chainsaws, or a pile of heads in a town shopping center that used to belong to the town's police force.
 

GasBandit

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it's a fact that his dumb scenario in USA/Mexico is the same thing as the Middle East?
It's an undisputed fact that the much of the Palestinian population considers Israel stolen territory, just like Mexico and the American southwest.
It's an undisputed fact that northern Mexico is almost completely in the grip of criminal organizations, just like Hamas controls Gaza - in fact, they were even elected.
It's an undisputed fact that Los Angeles is within rocket range of the US/Mexico border, just like Gaza and major metropolitan Israeli centers.

As undisputed facts, they don't need citations.

The rest of the post poses a hypothetical situation and asks what the response would be, which cannot be cited as it is hypothetical.

Get it? Kthx.

 

Necronic

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Also, for the US/mexico example, we've already had that situation over here in two situations:

1) Pancho Villa

2) Pablo Escobar (ok this wasn't in Mexico but it was cartel.)

I have always been a strong fan of the second method. Assassinations have historically been an amazing way of dealing with these kinds of groups, going all the way back tot he days of the Romans. Israel could actually learn a lot from the Romans. In the beginning they would assassinate leaders of uprisings in places like Gaul etc. and make sure not to screw the population over too much. In their later years they began doing more "revenge" oriented punitive campaigns that led to deep resentment and unrest in the population that eventually made them entirely unmanageable.

I'm super pro-assassination.[DOUBLEPOST=1406829252,1406829222][/DOUBLEPOST]
Even if you could define "Occupied territory" to everyone's satisfaction, this wouldn't stop Hamas sending rockets into Israel.
It would remove a vast amount of the support for them though.
 
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Rule 1: In war, people die.
Rule 2: There's not a whole hell of a lot you can do about rule 1.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...el-palestinians-ceasefire-begins-live-updates

from a reporter in Gaza:
Fishermen in Gaza City set out to sea for the first time since the war began as inhabitants tentatively left their homes, some for the first time for days. Queues formed for taxis. Most of those immediately on the streets were hoping to return to homes they had not seen for weeks, or salvage belongings. Grocery shops rapidly opened, selling basic foodstuffs.
While most seemed optimistic and pleased that the ceasfire had been declared others remained defiant. Rocket fire from Hamas also continued until the ceasefire came into effect.
Samira Attar, 27, a housewife, sitting in a donkey cart with her husband and five children and three mattresses, said she was heading back to her house in Atattraa, in the north of the strip.
“I am going back to my house for the first time for 17 days. I hope this ceasefire will hold for the whole 72 hours and longer, God willing. We don’t need more bloodshed, or more devastation. I’d like to see Israel to be defeated and broken but the circumstances were very difficult,” Attar said.
Harth Nassr, 34, a restaurant worker from Beit Hanoun, a heavily-hit village in the north east of the Gaza Strip, said he too was optimistic. “I think it will hold this time. Everybody is tired of this war,” he said.
Nassr’s home was destroyed after he evacuated following a warning from Israeli forces to leave the area.
“I left my house ten days ago. I went there only once in the last ten days and found the whole building, all three storeys, destroyed. I’m going back today to see if I can get any of my belongings.”
However, others doubted that the war, in which 59 Israelis and more than 1,440 Palestinians, largely civilians, have died, was over.
Isham Abu Ramadan, 42, said he was not optimistic: “We have long experience of Israel. They break the ceasefire all the time. They want to hit us more. They want more massacres.
“Israel doesn’t want to end the war as well as they don’t want a peace settlement. I don’t want a ceasefire. I want the resistance to fire until the end when Israel is defeated and asks for a truce,” Ramadan, a construction worker who said his house was destroyed in an air strike earlier this month, told the Guardian.
from Amnesty International:

Reckless targeting is a recurring problem, and the hand-wringing and words of regret no longer have any value. If you are making the same mistakes again and again, you would hope something is being learned,” she said, adding there was no sign of any disciplinary action for IDF mistakes that kill civilians. “There is no pattern of anyone being held to account, and impunity just leads to more reckless behaviour.
 

GasBandit

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About the only reliable quote in there was the one about the palestinian wanting to see Israel defeated and broken. Palestinians have zero room to talk about breaking cease fires and "not wanting peace, just massacres." That they even think that a military defeat for Israel in this engagement is a possibility ("I don't want a ceasefire, I want the resistance to fire until the end when Israel is defeated and asks for a truce") shows how ignorant they are of the actual situation.
 
About the only reliable quote in there was the one about the palestinian wanting to see Israel defeated and broken. Palestinians have zero room to talk about breaking cease fires and "not wanting peace, just massacres." That they even think that a military defeat for Israel in this engagement is a possibility ("I don't want a ceasefire, I want the resistance to fire until the end when Israel is defeated and asks for a truce") shows how ignorant they are of the actual situation.
It's almost like people are driven to extremes when their kids are blown apart and their homes are destroyed. Israel's actions are causing far more misery and breeding far more extremists than anything Hamas has accomplished.
 

GasBandit

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It's almost like people are driven to extremes when their kids are blown apart and their homes are destroyed. Israel's actions are causing far more misery and breeding far more extremists than anything Hamas has accomplished.
Now THAT is a [citation needed].
 

GasBandit

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Hamas violates yet another cease fire. You can't deal with these subcreatures. Time to plow Gaza under and push everything into the Mediterranean. If the other countries of the world are so bent out of shape about the "humanitarian crisis" then let them send ships to take in refugees within their own borders. It's time to stop pretending Palestine exists. It may be the wrong testament for Israelis, but I'm sure they can appreciate Matthew 24:2 about now.
 

Dave

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Most Palestinians are pretty pissed at Hamas. Razing Gaza isn't the answer. It's punishing the family because your crazy uncle starts shit with a bigger guy.
 

GasBandit

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Most Palestinians are pretty pissed at Hamas. Razing Gaza isn't the answer. It's punishing the family because your crazy uncle starts shit with a bigger guy.
Sorry, can you repeat that? It got drowned out by the sound of smiling palestinians dancing in the streets when they heard about the 9-11 attacks.

 
It's pathetic how much everyone loves to demonize and make the Palestinians "subhuman" "monsters" "animals" so it's easier to not have to face the massive human body count Israel is racking up.[DOUBLEPOST=1406917363,1406917327][/DOUBLEPOST]
Hamas violates yet another cease fire. You can't deal with these subcreatures. Time to plow Gaza under and push everything into the Mediterranean. If the other countries of the world are so bent out of shape about the "humanitarian crisis" then let them send ships to take in refugees within their own borders. It's time to stop pretending Palestine exists. It may be the wrong testament for Israelis, but I'm sure they can appreciate Matthew 24:2 about now.

alternate post: who gave Ann Coulter an account?
 

Dave

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Sorry, can you repeat that? It got drowned out by the sound of smiling palestinians dancing in the streets when they heard about the 9-11 attacks.

Dude, that was 13 years ago. You think that is the same as not liking Hamas for not letting cease-fires take effect? What the hell?
 

GasBandit

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It's pathetic how much everyone loves to demonize and make the Palestinians "subhuman" "monsters" "animals" so it's easier to not have to face the massive human body count Israel is racking up.
What do you mean "have to face the body count?" We've all read the statistics, Israel's killed 1500 palestinians as of today. As has been stated time and again, people die in war. Blame those who use the innocent as shields.


alternate post: who gave Ann Coulter an account?
Alternate post: STFU Charlie.
 

GasBandit

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Dude, that was 13 years ago. You think that is the same as not liking Hamas for not letting cease-fires take effect? What the hell?
It predates Hamas control. It shows that the Palestinians are not just some hapless people who just want to live in peace with their israeli neighbors - as the video (and the quotes in charlie's earlier post) shows, these are people who will never accept that Israel exists, and wish nothing but death and destruction upon Israel and America.


"Dude that was 13 years ago."

You've forgotten, Dave.

 
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I wonder how many Palestinians would be willing to move to another Arab country that would take them. Id bet it would be a significant amount.
 

GasBandit

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I wonder how many Palestinians would be willing to move to another Arab country that would take them. Id bet it would be a significant amount.
I bet so too, if only they'd accept them. However, all the neighboring Arab countries have refused to take in any palestinian refugees because that would be the first step in accepting/normalizing Israel's legitimate existence.
 
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It's pathetic how much everyone loves to demonize and make the Palestinians "subhuman" "monsters" "animals" so it's easier to not have to face the massive human body count Israel is racking up.
Yeah guys, Charlie has a point, the only group of people that we need to dehumanize in this thread are Israelis. So lets stay on topic please? Thanks.
 

GasBandit

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Yeah guys, Charlie has a point, the only group of people that we need to dehumanize in this thread are Israelis. So lets stay on topic please? Thanks.
Quite right, I apologize for getting off topic. It must have been my neverending lust for dead women and children.
 

Necronic

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Apparently the violation of the cease fire is not entirely cut and dry. Here's the story as I understand it. After cease fire begins Israel starts attacking guys in tunnels. Technically this is within the legal parameters of the cease fire. During this firefight an Israeli soldier was captured. In response Israel just shelled Rafah and killed 50+ Palestinians.
 
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