Is it the 90s again in the comic book world?

[Rubicon]

(mods dont move the thread, please, more people read General than the subforum..)

Ok so I obviously got a job now, and I can afford to feed my fanboy comic book hobby once more. Previous I was reading about 10-15 titles a month, spread between Marvel, DC and Image (mostly DC). I stopped once I was in college, tuition beat out my need for nerd entertainment so it's been about 5 or 6 years since I've read on a monthly basis.

I mean I'd read at least ten titles a month, plus Wizard plus dissect Overstreet every new edition plus read the news/rumors/discussions online, etc.

So.. what happened? Well let me be more specific

- Why does every comic, even some B-list titles, have variants again? We can all agree the shitty variant era of the 90's sucked balls, now it's back again? Sure I haven't seen some Ultra Chrome Ink Rare Artist Signed whatevers pop up but Sketch covers, secondary cover variants, rare penciled-no-ink variants, etc..

- When did some comics jump to $3.99? Last I checked they were all around $2.50-2.99, even special edition or event comics (more on this next). Not that I'm bitching about cost, I'll pay for my super hero crack as much as the next guy but just curious.

- Speaking of events, why why why are we back to this? I like events, if they are linear in their own title. One of the great things about the original Crisis was it was self contained. Reading Final Crisis (which sucked btw) and Secret Invasion (decent), have we gone back to having to buy 20 titles to truly get the full read of an event? This made me stop reading DC for a while in the 90's cause of Zero Hour, stop making me pick up copies of Final Crisis: Booster Gold or whatever (not a real title but you get my point)

- What's with reboots of reboots of reboots? Example, one of the few Marvel titles I love is Runaways, how many times has this been rerolled into a new volume? Or X-men? First their in San Francisco, then back on the run, now Nation X and Asteroid M is back?..

- 90's characters running around, after being gone for 10 years? When the hell did Youngblood and Gen 13 resurface? Cyberforce? Seriously? Not saying these are bad comics, I kinda enjoyed some of them back in the day but they've been gone for..a long, long time. I literally did a double take today at the comic shop, I was walking down to the W's to stock up on Wolverine and here I see Youngblood.. I had to stop and scratch my head, and wonder if I woke up in 1995 again or what.

- Kinda not so time related question but, how did Marvel recover from Civil War? Meaning, I loved Civil War but the outcome was..shitty. Heroes are outlawed, and we're supposed to forgive Tony and Reed? I never finished Secret Invasion so I dunno if they handled it there or what but aside from the two Marvel titles I read (Runaways, Hulk) I guess I havent heard much on the Superhero Registration Act front.

someone catch me up to speed

 

[figmentPez]

My guess, comic book movies drew attention to comics, and publishers are under the delusion that the best way to deal with the influx of new customers is to bilk them for all they're worth.

EDIT: this is also why I don't buy comics. Never have bought monthly issues, and I've stopped buying trades as well. It's just to expensive a hobby. Call me back when color eInk looks decent and costs under $100 for a reader, and I can subscribe to a monthly title for under $20 a year (and not need to spend $$$ on spin-offs and super bonus issues just to be able to follow the plot, etc.)

 

[ThatNickGuy]

(mods dont move the thread, please, more people read General than the subforum..)

The point of the subforums is to go to those forums to discuss those topics. Not everyone talks about comics around here. Sometimes, you just want to talk about video games, so you go over there. Or movies/TV/comics. Besides, the people who discuss comics and answer your questions? GuranTEE, they'll be here. Thus, I'll be a-flaggin' this post, soon as I'm done replying.

So.. what happened? Well let me be more specific

- Why does every comic, even some B-list titles, have variants again?

Simple answer: To make more money because collectors will buy anything.

Not so simple answer: Actually, it really is just a money grab.

- When did some comics jump to $3.99?

Gradually over the past year. The bigger titles that would make the money made the jump first, followed by the smaller titles. Both companies are trying different things to make the price reasonable, such as DC's backup stories in some of their comics. For exampe, The Question back up in Detective Comics.

- Speaking of events, why why why are we back to this?

Again, simple answer: It makes money. If you look at the charts of what sells the most, it's been the events. Personally, I'm with you on this and have chosen to barely buy any mainstream stuff anymore (aside from the mostly self contained seires) and trying all sorts of non-Big 2 series.

- What's with reboots of reboots of reboots?

It's always been around, but it's becoming worse and more frequent these days because creative teams don't stay on nearly as long anymore. Plus, reboots and such are big things these days in comics, movies and TV shows. Again, it's why I've been moving away from the Big Two and prefer to stick to self-contained or creator run comics. I could recommend SO many good ones to you.

- 90's characters running around, after being gone for 10 years?

Nostalgia. In fact, Marvel has resurfaced the Clone Saga. So nothing is sacred. Everything in the business is totally cyclical.

- Kinda not so time related question but, how did Marvel recover from Civil War?

No idea and frankly, I don't honestly care. I don't give a rats ass to the big events that talk about "Everything will change for ever!" and "Nothing will ever be the same again!" because it's garbage. The writers (especially Bendis) have been writing characters totally out of character to suit their own needs. Really, that's no different than any other writer who takes their own viewpoint on a character and spins it their own way. It's been happening for decades.

Seriously, man. You wanna read some good comics? Let me know and I can recommend some great ones that you won't need a flow chart or fifty years of history to understand.

 

[Cajungal]

Sorry, Mav, but that's why we encourage people to look at new posts instead of just surf around randomly. Tell you what, I'll leave the redirect up for 2 days instead of one.

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------

Or... someone could beat me to it.

 

[Cat]

The point of the subforums is to go to those forums to discuss those topics. Not everyone talks about comics around here. Sometimes, you just want to talk about video games, so you go over there. Or movies/TV/comics. Thus, I'll be a-flaggin' this post, soon as I'm done replying.

It doesn't make sense to be so restrictive about these subjects. So fuckin what if not everyone wants to talk about comics, there are plenty of other threads for them. Sometimes a thread is better off when addressed to the subforum community and sometimes it's better when addressed to the general community. As the subcommunities develop this issue will sort itself out.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

My point (as I expanded on it just now in an edit) is that the people who want to discuss comics will be coming here, as they have been. Same with the video games or (if that's how you wanna swing) the NSFW subforum.

Not trying to pull the drama tag here. We've had more than enough drama to last us for the month, I think.

 

[Rubicon]

I'll check out whatever is recommended.

These days I only read

Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps (these are my favorite two titles)
Flash
Runaways
Hulk
Justice League
Walking Dead
Buffy

I want to get back into X-men but I see they are again going with what, several Xmen titles, X-fore, X-Factor, three Wolverine titles, etc. Though I do love Astonishing X-Men ever since Whedon's run on it. I'll occasionally pick up All Star Superman or something offbeat. Not a big Batman fan, Justice League survives most of my non-GL DC needs, though I was pissed to see them axe Blue Beetle (one of my favorite 80's heroes).

I do prefer superhero comics as opposed to other kinds, but I am open to things. Image, Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, etc brand doesn't matter I'm not the one-company type fanboy.

 

[Qonas]

- Speaking of events, why why why are we back to this?

Blackest Night is awesome and don't you dare say otherwise.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

You've got some pretty good ones so far, man. Aside from Hulk, but I hear that's a fun, nothing serious kinda read. Justice League is too much all over the place (due to a lot of editorial interference) for me to really get interested. Runaway, I honestly lost all interest in after Brian K Vaughan left.

A few I can recommend:
-Invincible. Seriously. Invincible.

-Ever read the Annhilation books? There's been two events (Annhilation and A: Conquest) and a third just completed (War of Kings) with some spin-off titles like Nova and Guardians of the Galaxy, which are also both fantastic. It's a great side-area of the Marvel universe that's been relatively free of everything insane going on. In fact, there was an issue of Nova shortly after Annhilation where he came back to Earth and thought everyone had gone nuts. It's really great space opera stuff, honestly. I was never a fan of the galactic superhero stuff, but I've really been digging it.

Annihilation is contained within three trade paperbacks (that include some hit and miss, but mostly hit mini-series leading up to the main 6-issue event).
Annilhiation: Conquest is in two trades, with the same format as the first (lead-up mini-series followed by 6-issue event).

-Top Ten, by Alan Moore. It's like NYPD Blue with superheroes. GREAT stuff. I'd stick with the first two volumes, followed by the Smax mini-seris and the Forty-Niners graphic novel. Everything else after that isn't by Moore.

-Sleeper, by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips. Imagine (in a world of superpowers) a sleeper agent who is in so deep that he's on the bad guy's side, right at the top of the food chain, working for the big bad. Unfortunately, the ONLY guy who knows that it's all and act? The only guy that could pull him out of it? He's a coma.

The first "season" (12 issues) is out in trade and the second season just came out this week.

 

[Rubicon]

You've got some pretty good ones so far, man. Aside from Hulk, but I hear that's a fun, nothing serious kinda read. Justice League is too much all over the place (due to a lot of editorial interference) for me to really get interested. Runaway, I honestly lost all interest in after Brian K Vaughan left.

A few I can recommend:
-Invincible. Seriously. Invincible.


-Sleeper, by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips. Imagine (in a world of superpowers) a sleeper agent who is in so deep that he's on the bad guy's side, right at the top of the food chain, working for the big bad. Unfortunately, the ONLY guy who knows that it's all and act? The only guy that could pull him out of it? He's a coma.

The first "season" (12 issues) is out in trade and the second season just came out this week.

I might give Invincible a try, people rave about it. Plus, if Kirkman's writing is as good on it as it is on Walking Dead, it'll be great

Sleeper sounds awesome, reminds me a lot of Bucky/Winter Soldier, I'll give that a look.

I've been wanting to get into

Locke & Key
The Sword
Dark Avengers
New Krypton

and that one comic, I can't remember the name for the life of me but I read the first two trade's, the super hero town where all the old people are retired elderly superheroes, Serendipity or something (yea i suck, i cant remember the name of it)

 

[AshburnerX]

Technicaly speaking, Runaways hasn't ever been rebooted. It's still the same continuity, without any retcons... it's just with different artists and writers that it used to have.

Walking Dead is probably the best indie book out there at the moment. I definetely suggest picking it up if you can, and try to catch the TV series when it's finally released for AMC.

-Top Ten, by Alan Moore. It's like NYPD Blue with superheroes. GREAT stuff. I'd stick with the first two volumes, followed by the Smax mini-seris and the Forty-Niners graphic novel. Everything else after that isn't by Moore.

The stuff Moore wasn't involved in isn't bad, but it's not great ether. At least it finally gives us some more stuff about The Rumor, which Moore never bothered to do.

 

[SpecialKO]

Sleeper sounds awesome, reminds me a lot of Bucky/Winter Soldier, I'll give that a look.

Sleeper is actually part of a much longer story-arc that began way back in Alan Moore's run on WildC.A.T.s in the early 90s.

To get the full thing, you'll need to read in chronological order:

WildC.A.T.s #22-34, 50 (collected in Alan Moore's complete WildCATS: 1 trade)
Point Blank (Ed Brubaker's introduction to Sleeper's setting: 1 trade)
Coup D'Etat (a Wildstorm crossover that is completely optional, but has some nice new details: 1 trade)
Sleeper (4 trades originally, but I think they've been reprinted as 1 or 2 giant trades)

Of all of these, the ones you really can't miss are Point Blank and Sleeper. Point Blank is kind of like the pilot setup episode, and Sleeper is the series, and they really need to go together. They're also both written by Brubaker.

and then if you want more, the Wildstorm World's End books (WildCATS, the Authority, Gen13, StormWatch: PHD) all have some influence from the ending of Sleeper and for the most part they rock pretty effin' hard.

The whole World's End event is pretty much Wildstorm saying, "you know all those years ago when Image wanted to be the XTREME!! version of Marvel/DC and set up all these convoluted storylines that we then did nothing with? Well, let's do something with them and wrap them up."

While DC and Marvel diddled around with minor political squabbles that didn't make any sense and super-events where no one except Superman really did anything, Wildstorm torched the entire damn planet and left their superheroes behind to deal with it.

Each title is more or less self-contained, and have been going on for over a year now in this state. Comic industry being what it is (and since they're owned by DC), they'll probably be "fixing" the whole thing fairly soon, but the past year has been real solid.

Send me a PM if you're interested, and I'll send you a list of titles that are part of it.

Also in the Wildstorm category of awesome is Abnett & Lanning's Majestic series from 2005-2006. This is the same team that did the Marvel Annihilation stories mentioned earlier in the thread, writing an amazing dimension-crossing, universe-spanning storyline starring Mr. Majestic.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Sorry, Takeo. Speaking as someone that's only read Sleeper, I'm going to say that's entirely untrue. It's self-contained within its own world with little to no reference to ANY of the things you mentioned before. Aside from Point Blank which, as you said, is essentially the pilot. But I've never read it and that took away exactly no enjoyment from me in my reading of Sleeper.

I think explaining all of that is part of one of the things that Mav was complaining about in the first place.

 

[Alex B.]

Regarding the price point, most books still are $2.99. They'll jack up the price to 3.99 for the first issue or like already mentioned include back-up material. Mini-series are often 3.99 now, though.

If you want to get into anything X-related I recommend X-Factor. It's the only X-book I read and for the most part it's pretty stand-alone. Start with the Madrox mini-series that came out a few years ago, it lead directly into X-Factor. It sags a little bit when it gets dragged into a big X-event and Secret Invasion, but otherwise is excellent.

As for Civil War, I believe the Civil War aftermath stuff was largely limited to the Avengers Initiative series and a couple of Iron Man arcs, and had a lasting impact on the general status quo of New and Mighty Avengers (though Mighty is totally different now), and on the Ms Marvel series. The Act still gets mentioned occasionally, but it's largely in the background. I haven't read Initiative, so I can't vouch for it.

I'll toss Terry Moore's Echo into the recommended mix. Indie book, completely self contained, and has a planned ending. The series is about half way through now and traded.

It sounds silly, but has anyone read any of the GiJoe titles? The GiJoe: Cobra series that came out recently was a fantastic stand-alone mini-series.

 

[SpecialKO]

Sorry, Takeo. Speaking as someone that's only read Sleeper, I'm going to say that's entirely untrue. It's self-contained within its own world with little to no reference to ANY of the things you mentioned before. Aside from Point Blank which, as you said, is essentially the pilot. But I've never read it and that took away exactly no enjoyment from me in my reading of Sleeper.

I think explaining all of that is part of one of the things that Mav was complaining about in the first place.

Hey, I'm not talking 30 years of mismatched continuity here, I'm talking about direct setup stories put in place over very short runs by two authors, Alan Moore and Ed Brubaker.

It's true that Sleeper can be enjoyed without the other stuff, but since you haven't read the other stuff, I'm a little mystified that you could claim that they don't add anything.

Spoiler

Most obvious thing, seeing how Tao behaves in Wildcats helps put his evolution into secret kingpin of crime into perspective. Also, much as I like the portrayal of Tao's crime empire from Holden's perspective in Sleeper, it's a hell of a lot creepier to read after you've seen what it's like when Tao uses his powers on people who are actually susceptible.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

I never said they don't add anything. I'm saying that Sleeper works just fine on its own without having to read all that other stuff. I'm only speaking as someone who prefers to read self-contained stories that dont need half a dozen other volumes to understand it. Sure, you might get more out of it, but it's still not needed.

Now, that's not to say that I haven't been INTERESTED in reading Point Blank or Alan Moore's run on WildCats, but I just feel it's unnecessary to enjoy reading Sleeper on its own.

 

[SpecialKO]

I'm only speaking as someone who prefers to read self-contained stories that dont need half a dozen other volumes to understand it. Sure, you might get more out of it, but it's still not needed.

But you have to admit that there's quite a bit of difference between a more or less self-contained run that benefits from pre-established directly-set up continuity that requires at most 2 or 3 other chronologically-distinct trades to flesh out everything and a giant maxi-event like Secret Invasion that dangles plot threads in all directions and actually requires simultaneous reading of 26 (no lie) separate trades in order to have a full grasp of a brief event in time.

 

[AshburnerX]

Is there really any point collecting comics anymore? Your quite literally not going to see any return on that investment for 40-50 years, and unless we suddenly have some kind of event like a war or plague that results in most of those collections going missing, they aren't going to be worth jack squat. The only reason the older Golden Age stuff is worth anything is because of the paper recycling drives during WW2.

 

[Espy]

Mav: It's all those reasons that I think in general many people only read comics for 15-20 years then they realize they are just reading the same thing over and over.
Then they stop for 10 years or so and then they pick it back up so see if anything is new.

It's sad but I'm really in my 10 year stretch right now. I used to buy so many comics it was crazy. When I was a teenager I spent about 200 bucks a month on comics and into adulthood probably almost as much since I started buying up trades.

Someday, probably much to the embarrassment of my kids (God forbid I ever have any) I will probably start buying them up again.

One other thing: While I don't read any comics currently as soon as Blackest night comes out in trades? I'm ordering it.

 

[Shegokigo]

Wait.... Gen13 is back!?!? LINK!?!?

Oh wait, are you talking about the 2006 reboot? Is that PoS still going?

Did it get any better? Is there a collected works for it yet?

 

[Vrii]

Locke & Key

This one is excellent. Definitely check it out.

 

[SpecialKO]

Wait.... Gen13 is back!?!? LINK!?!?

Oh wait, are you talking about the 2006 reboot? Is that PoS still going

You mean Gail Simone's re-launch? That was really good. It was a cool, fresh take on the old characters that actually made an attempt at making it a comic book about bioweapons also about growing up and pop-culture pressure.

Now, if you were talking about Chris Claremont's completely nonsensical run in 2002.... rly:

 

[Rubicon]

Is there really any point collecting comics anymore? Your quite literally not going to see any return on that investment for 40-50 years, and unless we suddenly have some kind of event like a war or plague that results in most of those collections going missing, they aren't going to be worth jack squat. The only reason the older Golden Age stuff is worth anything is because of the paper recycling drives during WW2.

Collecting for money was never my goal. I collect to read, the stories, the characters, thats what I enjoy.

Now do I also enjoy keeping my collection mostly bagged and boarded? Yea. Do I love hunting down an issue I've been looking for? Yes. Do I have a great time flipping through back bins at booths at comic conventions? Most definitely. It's the stories. Sure I could get TPB's but I started reading singular issues as a kid, I'll always read singular issues.

 

[Alex B.]

Is there really any point collecting comics anymore? Your quite literally not going to see any return on that investment for 40-50 years, and unless we suddenly have some kind of event like a war or plague that results in most of those collections going missing, they aren't going to be worth jack squat. The only reason the older Golden Age stuff is worth anything is because of the paper recycling drives during WW2.

Collecting for money was never my goal. I collect to read, the stories, the characters, thats what I enjoy.

Now do I also enjoy keeping my collection mostly bagged and boarded? Yea. Do I love hunting down an issue I've been looking for? Yes. Do I have a great time flipping through back bins at booths at comic conventions? Most definitely. It's the stories. Sure I could get TPB's but I started reading singular issues as a kid, I'll always read singular issues.[/QUOTE]

Same here. It's just habit. I've always bagged and boarded just to keep them in good shape so I could reread them in the future. I was never silly enough to think they'd be valuable one day.

I do like getting trades, though, particularly for runs I really loved. It's easier to reread that way. I'm gradually starting to make the switch to trades for certain books.

 

[@Li3n]

It's raping time:

 

[Shegokigo]

That picture is full of all kinds of win!

 

[Shannow]

That picture is full of all kinds of win!

Ye Gods no

 

[Shegokigo]

That picture is full of all kinds of win!

Ye Gods no[/QUOTE]

But, it's Red Hulk wearing Deadpool's costume!! :uhhuh:

 

[Shannow]

uuuugh. Said it before, and I will say it again..fuck Red Hilk.

 

[Shegokigo]

Who gives a shit what crappy story it has behind it, the picture is hilarious.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Deadpool and Red Huuuuulk!
They make a great teeeeeam!
Heeee's a psychopath...

 

[Shannow]

Christ, now I am rememebring the last 2 issues of Hulk. thanks for that. uuuuggggh.

 

[Covar]

you can collect things for money?

 

[@Li3n]

Who gives a shit what crappy story it has behind it, the picture is hilarious.

The Red Hulk thing is hilarious also... too bad they're not doing it on purpose...

 

[Shannow]

you can collect things for money?

Money can be exchanged for goods and or services.