hot Topic: Obama to reverse "gag rule" on abortion

[zero]

Nope, I suggest you go watch a tv show or something Sera.

*sigh... know what? Might as well be some "Dallas" rerun...

Well, you have read me saying that I am NOT against rape abortions, right?

You missed the rest of my problems with guys who are against abortion-

Have I? Then why do you keep bring the issue of rape on MY posts? Of course I agree a husband can rape his wife, and you surely have seen that I DO defend that a biological runway father should be put in Jail...

And also adopt an unwanted child if fetuses are the same as people. I dont have a single kid of my own and Im taking care of 4 kids. Amy's adopting. Or let women choose.

Well, do you remember how we got started on this thread?

My opinion is the same when people talk about the Vatican deciding whether people should about- "let women themselves choose, enough with guys trying to control women's bodies.

I had precisely that opinion until a friend asked me "Well, and what if a woman pregnant with YOUR child wants to have an abortion?"

Mind you, then its simple, you have a say in it.
However, the Pope doesnt.

Heck... over what are we fighting anyway?

Never liked Earl Grey Tea though. Prefer chai.

Two words: O'Connors cream

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

I love this thread so much.

I'd post that picture of the kitten with the yarn, but she's off wandering the earth having adventures. Like Shannow from Halforum.

 

[Amy old]

I love this thread so much.

I'd post that picture of the kitten with the yarn, but she's off wandering the earth having adventures. Like Shannow from Halforum.

why do you love this thread, babykiller/enslaver of women?

 

[JCM]

Heck... over what are we fighting anyway?

Hmm, seeing not only I but Amy is also confused with your opinion, why dont you tell us?

Are you for, or against? Should women (and the father) choose, or does society/religion have a say?

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

There haven't been many of these raging political threads since halforum started and I was getting worried we'd run out of steam. It's good to know the locomotive is still barreling down the track.

 

[Amy old]

There haven't been many of these raging political threads since halforum started and I was getting worried we'd run out of steam. It's good to know the locomotive is still barreling down the track.

why don't you just go do something useful, like kill yourself? at WHOLE FOODS.

 

[Krisken]

There haven't been many of these raging political threads since halforum started and I was getting worried we'd run out of steam. It's good to know the locomotive is still barreling down the track.

why don't you just go do something useful, like kill yourself? at WHOLE FOODS.

But not in the tea aisle. We certainly can't have a civilized conversation if you're bleeding profusely on the product.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

There haven't been many of these raging political threads since halforum started and I was getting worried we'd run out of steam. It's good to know the locomotive is still barreling down the track.

why don't you just go do something useful, like kill yourself? at WHOLE FOODS.

But despite my shitty life, I still want to live.

At times, anyway . . . shit, Ma! Why didn't you abort me when you had the chance. :smoke:

 

[Amy old]

There haven't been many of these raging political threads since halforum started and I was getting worried we'd run out of steam. It's good to know the locomotive is still barreling down the track.

why don't you just go do something useful, like kill yourself? at WHOLE FOODS.

But despite my shitty life, I still want to live.

At times, anyway . . . shit, Ma! Why didn't you abort me when you had the chance. :smoke:

no no, wanting to live despite a shitty life is only allowed for kids. Once you're an adult with a shitty life its time to do the respectable thing and go scare some stock hippies at whole foods.

 

[JONJONAUG]

the right to life is more important than a woman having what she perceives as irregular body functions for about ten or so months

...holy FUCK.

What? Fetus growth is something that comes in the technical specification sheet of females. I know it's not exactly a PC way of putting it, but there's not many other ways to say that women housing a fetus while it grows isn't unnatural. What I'm saying is right to life>emotional impact.

You still don't seem to understand the difference between "being PC" and "not being a giant misogynistic douchbag." World of difference there, really, yet you can't seem to grasp how amazingly ignorant and offensive that comment was.

Actually I mostly wanted to see whether or not Amy blocked me or not. I think "holy FUCK" is a bit of an overreaction, but I know Amy would rant on it for the way I stated it (and yes, I know there's actually a million better ways to put it).

Although knowing what a femminazi Amy is, even if I had left that part out after saying that I would adopt she would suggest finding some way to house the fetus in my own body before I could be "qualified" to argue on the issue (which, given her conversation with Zero, she's about five seconds away from doing).

Another thing, why is it that so many people in this thread seem to think that giving birth means that you have to raise a child? As I stated previously (and people seemed to ignore), there is this little thing called "adoption" that actually works really well. There are plenty of single parents and married couples who want children but cannot conceive on their own, and plenty of foster care programs that work well. Even if the child doesn't necessarily get just as good care as any other child, or is unhappy, the child is sure as hell going to be happy that they existed over the alternative of being killed before being born. Saying that a woman should be forced to carry a child may be indicative of a disconnect with women aged 16-51, but saying that a person doesn't have the right to exist or shouldn't because they would be "unhappy" shows a disconnect with basic human morality. I may not understand what a woman has through during and after pregnancy, but I really don't care if the alternative is killing a life.

Since we seem to be discussing levels of guilt now, here's what I think.

Mother who gets pregnant after consensual sex and aborts without consulting husband or the husband disagrees with the decision: Cold-hearted murdering bitch
Mother who aborts after consulting with husband AND the husband agrees, consensual sex: Still a murdering bitch, but at least had some decency about it
Mother who aborts, rape or incest: I don't agree with the decision, but I wouldn't condemn them for it. I would think she needs help and counseling.
Mother who aborts due to serious health threats (ie: nothing that wouldn't normally happen as a result of pregrency, such as mood swings, temporary or permanent changes in physical appearance, etc): I'm sorry for her loss

 

[Amy old]

every time i read Jons stuff, I remember that he loves 4chan.

it adds a chilling perspective.

 

Actually I mostly wanted to see whether or not Amy blocked me or not.

Admitting to trolling behavior in a thread that's already about to be locked? Nice.

I think "holy FUCK" is a bit of an overreaction, but I know Amy would rant on it for the way I stated it (and yes, I know there's actually a million better ways to put it).

I said that, genius.

 

[zero]

Heck... over what are we fighting anyway?

Hmm, seeing not only I but Amy is also confused with your opinion, why dont you tell us?

I don't think Amy is really confused... I've been a bit rude with her, she's picking on me for that...

Are you for, or against? Should women (and the father) choose, or does society/religion have a say?

Well, you DO want the opinion of a white catholic guy who never adopted a child... ok, here it is (just remember, I will discuss my arguments, but not what I am):

As I've been saying since my very first post post here:

I had no answer back then... I still don't...

My current opinions on that are:
Father: I am almost decided on that, he SHOULD have a saying on the life or death of his own child, even if that implies on the (awful) enslaving of a woman for 9 months. The lesser of two evils...

Religion: The point here is moot... unless of course the mother follows such religion, but then, again, the point there is moot...

Society: now, that's the question, isn't it? Society after all has a right to defend the lives of their own, and I surely don't think parents have a right to murder they born children (you know very well, that's PRECISELY what indigenous societies have been doing here in Brazil). Now, if the society has the right to enslave a woman for nine months to save her unborn unwanted child, I sincerely don't know. I tend to lean on the "no" side of this one.

What I can tell you (and that's what I have been arguing, perhaps it is much more polemic than the question of abortion itself) is that I would rather see unwanted children abandoned on the streets to misery and prostitution than dead (and it goes without saying, both scenarios are abominable).

Not that I think that an argument validity depend on who states it, but to avoid more of such confrontation, yes, I do say that from personal experience.

 

[JONJONAUG]

every time i read Jons stuff, I remember that he loves 4chan.

it adds a chilling perspective.

...you are very cruel. At least those people try to be misogynists from a "I have penis and therefore am better, hurrdurr" standpoint instead of trying to back it up with FACTS! [/sarcasm]

 

[Le Quack]

I vote we call an end to this thread.

Nothing good can come of it.


Lets abort this thread like a back-alley Hodoctor.

 

[JCM]

*ignore's Jon "I dont give a shit about women, but I wanna turn them into uterus life support devices Sthick*

Heck... over what are we fighting anyway?

Hmm, seeing not only I but Amy is also confused with your opinion, why dont you tell us?

I don't think Amy is really confused... I've been a bit rude with her, she's picking on me for that...

Are you for, or against? Should women (and the father) choose, or does society/religion have a say?

Well, you DO want the opinion of a white catholic guy who never adopted a child... ok, here it is (just remember, I will discuss my arguments, but not what I am):

As I've been saying since my very first post post here:

I had no answer back then... I still don't...

My current opinions on that are:
Father: I am almost decided on that, he SHOULD have a saying on the life or death of his own child, even if that implies on the (awful) enslaving of a woman for 9 months. The lesser of two evils...

Religion: The point here is moot... unless of course the mother follows such religion, but then, again, the point there is moot...

Society: now, that's the question, isn't it? Society after all has a right to defend the lives of their own, and I surely don't think parents have a right to murder they born children (you know very well, that's PRECISELY what indigenous societies have been doing here in Brazil). Now, if the society has the right to enslave a woman for nine months to save her unborn unwanted child, I sincerely don't know. I tend to lean on the "no" side of this one.

Okay, now I know where you stand on the issue.

reminds me of this comic-

Actually I mostly wanted to see whether or not Amy blocked me or not.

Admitting to trolling behavior in a thread that's already about to be locked? Nice.

I think "holy FUCK" is a bit of an overreaction, but I know Amy would rant on it for the way I stated it (and yes, I know there's actually a million better ways to put it).

I said that, genius.

You know, as much as I feel that an average mod is pretty much low on the food chain, Zen is pretty much proving me wrong.

 

I vote we call an end to this thread.

Honestly, I've been keeping it open since it's skirting that line and I don't want to censor discussion, but if the posters in this thread agree, I'll lock it down.

(Not saying I won't otherwise, especially with Jon admitting that he's posting stuff just to get a rise out of people, which is trolling.)

 

[zero]

Okay, now I know where you stand on the issue.

reminds me of this comic-(snip)

Heh, come on, admit it, I have been honest about it since the 1st page. I just got bugged when the "those kids would be better of dead" showed up.

 

[JCM]

Okay, now I know where you stand on the issue.

reminds me of this comic-(snip)

Heh, come on, admit it, I have been honest about it since the 1st page. I just got bugged when the "those kids would be better of dead" showed up.

Fair enough, while I may not agree that many kids should be raised at all (heck, thats what the lower class brazilians and Indians do, make kids one after another), the rest pretty much I agree with you.

Last post before the lock?

 

[JONJONAUG]

I vote we call an end to this thread.

Honestly, I've been keeping it open since it's skirting that line and I don't want to censor discussion, but if the posters in this thread agree, I'll lock it down.

(Not saying I won't otherwise, especially with Jon admitting that he's posting stuff just to get a rise out of people, which is trolling.)

I was serious about everything else I posted. I've just been curious for a while if Amy foe'd me or not, that's all.

*ignore's Jon "I dont give a shit about women, but I wanna turn them into uterus life support devices Sthick*

I said that I know I can't understand them, that doesn't mean I don't care. I just care more about saving a life than caring about the emotional impact of pregnancy.

 

[Iaculus]

I vote we call an end to this thread.

Honestly, I've been keeping it open since it's skirting that line and I don't want to censor discussion, but if the posters in this thread agree, I'll lock it down.

(Not saying I won't otherwise, especially with Jon admitting that he's posting stuff just to get a rise out of people, which is trolling.)

I was serious about everything else I posted. I've just been curious for a while if Amy foe'd me or not, that's all.

*ignore's Jon "I dont give a shit about women, but I wanna turn them into uterus life support devices Sthick*

I said that I know I can't understand them, that doesn't mean I don't care. I just care more about saving a life than caring about the emotional impact of pregnancy.

:eyeroll:

All right, folks, you've twisted my arm.

I warn you - this doesn't make for pleasant reading.

http://www.demogr.mpg.de/Papers/workshops/010623_paper25.pdf

 

[Amy old]

"those kids would be better of dead" showed up.

who said that, exactly?

 

[JONJONAUG]

Therefore in 1967 it was adopted the
Decree 770 by which the abortion and using of contraceptive means were prohibited.

Ouch.

According to the Decree adopted in 1967 every woman under 45 years old had the
patriotic duty to give to the homeland at least 5 children.

OUCH! That's just retarded.

At the same time the law punished the sale of modern contraceptive means which,
as a result, disappeared from the specialised shops. All persons over 25 years old who did
not have children (excepting those who had valid medical infertility problems) were
punished for celibate, paying 30 per cent tax on income.

*Facepalm* This is not an article showing the effects of when abortion is illegal, this is an article showing the effects of what happens when some idiot decides that the entire female population is suddenly designated the status of "baby factory".

 

I was serious about everything else I posted. I've just been curious for a while if Amy foe'd me or not, that's all.

I give a crap. Take that stuff to PMs.

I said that I know I can't understand them, that doesn't mean I don't care. I just care more about saving a life than caring about the emotional impact of pregnancy.

What if that emotional impact were to lead the mother to suicide?

 

[JONJONAUG]

What if that emotional impact were to lead the mother to suicide?

There should be aid for these cases. The mother should explore alternatives and try to get help first. If the mother clearly cannot be helped, then it would be acceptable to abort the fetus.

 

[JCM]

Zen

You are talking to man who still goes on 4chan, prefers to focre a womoan to bear a kid and destroy her life and wont adopt a kid himself

*ignore's Jon "I dont give a shit about women, but I wanna turn them into uterus life support devices Sthick*

I said that I know I can't understand them, that doesn't mean I don't care. I just care more about saving a fetus than caring about ruining a woman's life to feel good

Haven't you been out of 4chan to see the real world, and think that saving a fetus is great, at the price of forcing low-income family wives become baby factories, single mothers-to-be who had the father leave to raise a kid on their own and raped women to forever remember the rape, and destroy the rest of your life?

Jesus, thats what I find funny about your shit, you'd save a fetus and destroy the life of a woman to feel good about morals, but hey, like Amy said, you guys are full of shit, babbling about saving unborn kids, while not a single one of you will adopt a kid.

No wonder you've taken to trolling.

 

There should be aid for these cases. The mother should explore alternatives and try to get help first. If the mother clearly cannot be helped, then it would be acceptable to abort the fetus.

That's a lot of shoulds and woulds for a society where things aren't always as clearly defined as you'd like them to be.

 

[Troll]

Of course I agree a husband can rape his wife, and you surely have seen that I DO defend that a biological runway father should be put in Jail...

:shock:

 

[Iaculus]

Therefore in 1967 it was adopted the
Decree 770 by which the abortion and using of contraceptive means were prohibited.

Ouch.

[quote:3kr57cub]According to the Decree adopted in 1967 every woman under 45 years old had the
patriotic duty to give to the homeland at least 5 children.

OUCH! That's just retarded.

At the same time the law punished the sale of modern contraceptive means which,
as a result, disappeared from the specialised shops. All persons over 25 years old who did
not have children (excepting those who had valid medical infertility problems) were
punished for celibate, paying 30 per cent tax on income.

*Facepalm* This is not an article showing the effects of when abortion is illegal, this is an article showing the effects of what happens when some idiot decides that the entire female population is suddenly designated the status of "baby factory".[/quote:3kr57cub]

The effects, however, had a great deal to do with the outlawing of abortion. Observe the skyrocketing demand for back-alley abortions and rise in mortality rate amongst mothers - this despite abortions for health reasons being legal. Also, note the difficulties the social services had in coping with the situation - exaggerated by the incentives for having babies, yes, and unlikely to occur to such a spectacular extent in a modern, Western country, but still pimarily triggered by the outlawing of non-medical abortion.

 

Of course I agree a husband can rape his wife, and you surely have seen that I DO defend that a biological runway father should be put in Jail...

:shock:

Oh come on, even I know he meant "it is possible for this to happen" not "a husband is entitled to do it."

 

[Amy old]

Of course I agree a husband can rape his wife, and you surely have seen that I DO defend that a biological runway father should be put in Jail...

:shock:

to be fair i think the fuckhat meant to say that a husband can be guilty of raping his wife, not that raping his wife was kosher behaviour.

Back to ignore with you now, troll.

 

[JCM]

There should be aid for these cases. The mother should explore alternatives and try to get help first. If the mother clearly cannot be helped, then it would be acceptable to abort the fetus.

That's a lot of shoulds and woulds for a society where things aren't always as clearly defined as you'd like them to be.

Yep.

like I said, for society to have the right to call abortion "murder", and control women's bodies, chauvinists like Jon would have to endure that-

-a)Castrate rapists/make laws sterners to STOP repeat rapists and give financial aid to raise the unwanted rape child.
-b)Put stern laws that considers a husband a rapist should he have sex with a woman when she doesnt want to, and provide shelters for women who are kicked off from home for refusing sex, especially among the lower class, because many lower-class women have no way to get away from these husbands, and shouldnt be relegated to becoming a baby-making factory to please morals of others.
-c)Put a biological father in jail should he run off, have him work a sweatshop to pay alimony, should he be unable to pay for it, because damn there are shitloads of women who are abandoned by the father of the child.
-d)Prohibit anything that usually kills the fetus, like sex the few months after, heavy exercise.

Because right now, repeated rapists are let out of jail.
Shitloads of low-income family moms have nowhere to go, and are just baby-making machines.
Shitloads of mothers-to-be are left by the fathers, and society does shit about it.

A society in which women still earn less than men, have less rights around the world will want to force them to destroy her life so that people like Jon can feel like good Christians? Fuck that.

 

[JONJONAUG]

Jesus, thats what I find funny about your shit, you'd save a fetus and destroy the life of a woman to feel good about morals, but hey, like Amy said, you guys are full of shit, babbling about saving unborn kids, while not a single one of you will adopt a kid.

I would adopt a child. If I ever settle down and decide to have children, I would prefer to adopt because I know there are children who are in need of it (and being adopted myself, it would feel wrong not to give back to the system by doing the same). I'm 19 and in college, I'm in no position to adopt a child at the present. You're the one who keeps ignoring the prospect of foster care or adoption for unwanted children.

but still pimarily triggered by the outlawing of non-medical abortion.

And the outlawing of contraceptives (people like sex because sex feels good, they aren't all suddenly going to become chaste) and levying unfair taxes on people who don't have children.

-a)Castrate rapists/make laws sterners to STOP repeat rapists and give financial aid to raise the unwanted rape child.
-b)Put stern laws that considers a husband a rapist should he have sex with a woman when she doesnt want to, and provide shelters for women who are kicked off from home for refusing sex, especially among the lower class, because many lower-class women have no way to get away from these husbands, and shouldnt be relegated to becoming a baby-making factory to please morals of others.
-c)Put a biological father in jail should he run off, have him work a sweatshop to pay alimony, should he be unable to pay for it, because damn there are shitloads of women who are abandoned by the father of the child.
-d)Prohibit anything that usually kills the fetus, like sex the few months after, heavy exercise.

I'm fine with all of those.

 

I'm 19 and in college

Ah.

 

[zero]

Of course I agree a husband can rape his wife, and you surely have seen that I DO defend that a biological runway father should be put in Jail...

:shock:

Heh, nice catch Troll, you got me there.
Rephrasing it: I of course think a husband having unconsensual sex with his wife is guilty of rape, and should be punished as so.