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Cosplay Subforum Rules

Discussion in 'Pez's Playhouse & Cosplay Corner' started by Dave, Dec 16, 2011.

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  1. Dave

    Dave I'm not that fucking old! Staff Member

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    This is just a quick note to let everyone know that this subforum is going to be handled a bit differently than other subforums. First, it's going to be moderated with a metaphorical Iron Fist, meaning that posts must stay on topic and germane to the discussion at hand. Decisions as to what is and is not allowed is totally up to the mods in general and FigmentPez specifically.

    There are reasons for this.

    • We have had instances where cosplayers have felt uncomfortable with the level of joking over the way they look. (i.e. creepers)
    • Cosplayers - especially female ones - get hit on a lot at cons. We want this place to be a celebration of cosplay and cosplayers, not a place to comment on the cleavage of the cosplayers.
    I know this is a departure from what we are used to, but this is only one sub of the entire board. If the moderation rules herein are not to your liking, you have every right to make a post about it in general. But not here.

    Please also note that FigmentPez does NOT have the ability to give infractions or ban anyone, but he can and will use his delete or edit powers.

    I apologize for not making this all clear sooner.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Bones

    Bones Anime Corrupts, Moe Corrupts Absolutely

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    thank you dave, thats all I wanted to know when all this stuff started going down.
     
  3. Charlie Don't Surf

    Charlie Don't Surf #BlackLivesMatter

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    hahaha. But good on eliminating creepiness.
     
  4. Zero Esc

    Zero Esc Halforums Asshole Assessment Division

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    Thanks, Dave.
     
  5. bhamv3

    bhamv3 .

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    I agree with the need for such ground rules.

    Also, people have been creeping without me? Damn, my "Official Forum Pervert" cred is falling lower and lower.
     
  6. Zero Esc

    Zero Esc Halforums Asshole Assessment Division

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    You said it, Chibi.

    :awesome:
     
  7. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    Kotaku has a relevant article you might want to peruse, FP. Not posting it in the cosplay thread proper since it doesn't directly relate to cosplay, but you might want to go through it as source material while you codify your rules.

    http://kotaku.com/5868595/nerds-and-male-privilege

    --Patrick
     
  8. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    I read that article before it was reposted on Kotaku (it's the same article that I quoted cosplayer Meagan Marie responding to). I found it to be a trite piece of male/nerd-bashing bullshit. (But what else do I expect from a blog that also has such riveting articles as "Don't Date Geek Girls" and "Why Women Cheat (and How to Stop It)".) It brings up issues that need to be discussed, but does so in a way that is biased and seeks to be controversial, rather than actually trying to start any reasoned discourse on the issue. I find it rather fitting that Kotaku, known for it's exploitation of the sexy nerd girl image, is posting such an article. It's a piece written solely to get page views, and that's exactly what it's done, nothing more.
     
  9. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    I rely on you, then, to pull out the relevant bits and discard the rest. I suppose it will be like seeding a pomegranate.

    --Patrick
     
  10. Bowielee

    Bowielee Globally ignored since 1975

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    I actually found the article to be extremely spot on.

    Being a gay gamer, I'm VASTLY under-represented in my chosen source material, even less than strong female characters. There is most definately a "good old boys" club in gaming/geek culture. Straight white men just tend not to see it, because they really don't have to.

    I still remember when this iteration of the board was in it's infancy and I had to fight to have fag added to the list of things that weren't acceptable, with the very predictable "it's only words" response. (FYI, still fucking hate the Do it faggot meme).

    And yes, I know I'll get a ton of flack for this post.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Espy

    Espy IMA PREACHA! Staff Member

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    As a "straight white male" who spends some time online and has spent inordinate amounts of time in places like comic and gaming shops I found quite a bit of that article to be seriously thought provoking and reasonably accurate about quite a bit of male nerd culture. Doesn't mean it's 100% right but it certainly hits the nail on the head in a few spots.
     
  12. Dave

    Dave I'm not that fucking old! Staff Member

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    I thought the article was pretty good and the response by Shinta also to be spot on. My wife won't go into my local gaming/comic shop. She calls it "The Boobie Store". First time she went in there the owner was unpacking 12" tall figures of "Women of Marvel" or some such. Of the figurines we saw there was about 1 total outfit of clothes between them. And this is a store where women are very welcome and game frequently. They have a very, very low tolerance for people harassing others. I saw a long-time regular get kicked out because he yelled, "Hey, baby!" at a girl who came in with her little brother.

    So while I think he article isn't 100% I think it does raise some excellent points.
     
  13. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    Yes, the discussion points are important, and need to be talked about, but is that the proper way to say it? It may make give those already feeling persecuted some warm-and-fuzzy feelings inside because someone gets them and is speaking to their issues, but is it really conveying the issues to those who need to swayed on the issue? Don't get me wrong, I read the article and see a lot of things that I want to be said, but they're definitely not said in a way that's productive.

    First, I think the example of Batman: Arkham City is poorly laid out. First-off, it ignores the fact that women villains using seduction has been a staple of ALL media since the Greek myths and before. You'll find such characters in novels, plays, movies, myths, jokes, television, etc., etc. Knowing this, the article should have focused on the change of Harley Quinn from a character whose sexuality is incidental and not core to the character, to one who has been tarted up for the game (and the new reboot). Acknowledging that sexual female characters are a staple of media, but showing that nerd hobbies over-emphasize that one character type (while ignoring other female archetypes) is the problem. Complaining that Poison Ivy is being a sexual character is like complaining that Aphrodite/Venus is wearing too little.

    Next, want to complain about how few female characters are good examples? Then how about actually naming some that are?! Being negative does not help the issue if you can't at least show that you're aware that positive examples exist and show what should be aimed for. No mention of Alyx Vance from HL2, Zoey & Rochelle from L4D/L4D2, FemShep from Mass Effect, Elaine Marley or Morgan LeFlay from ToMI, etc., etc. Yes, there is a problem, but constructive crticism is what's needed, not simply male/nerd-bashing.

    Thirdly, if you want me to take you seriously about women being treated differently because they're women, stop stereotyping me just because I'm a straight male while pretending that such stereotyping doesn't exist. Yeah, I know the stereotyping I get is just a minor annoyance compared to the serious problems faced by women and homosexuals, but it still exists. If I do anything nice for a girl, I get accused of hitting on her. If stand up and say that women should be treated with respect, I get accused of "white knighting"; trying to gain favor with women by doing so. If I should suggest that a woman's motivations cannot be judged by her dress, I get laughed at as if I can't possibly comprehend because I post pictures of women in beautiful costumes, and therefore must be objectifying them myself. If you want guys to change, to be better about the way they treat women, stop beating down the ones who are honestly trying.

    I'm not making this change in how I publicly respond to the sexual objectification of cosplayers because I want to impress a girl. To be honest there is only one girl I'm interested in right now, and as far as I know she's bothered by my maintaining this thread at all, and being more polite to the girls featured here isn't going to make her feel any better about it. I don't care what the cosplayers think of me specifically. Not to mention I've already got a pretty good reputation with them just for making the thread and the comments I make about their photos. I've never heard it suggested that they view me any differently because of what other people say in my thread. I'm making the change to appease my own conscience, and out of some misguided idea that if enough people stand up in a similar manner eventually geek/nerd males will stop being viewed as perverts whose hobbies make them think of nothing but sex and violence.

    Back to the article, though, I specifically dislike how cosplayers are singled out as being put on pillars and objectified because people enjoy the hard work they've done. There is objectification done, absolutely. Meagan Marie's comments on this article definitely affirm that she's treated like an image more often than a person. However, I think the article really failed in stereotyping all cosplay as sexual, and I think that does a great disservice to the many cosplayers that definitely do not cosplay with a desire to be sexually objectified, and still receive great praise for their work. This type of horrible stereotyping is also prevalent in the "Don't Date Geek Girls" article from the same source. It shows not only a lack of respect for women, but also a horrible understanding of nerd culture. The author treats nerds/geeks (especially nerd/geek males) as some homogenous culture who all share the exact same interests.

    Well, I've rambled enough, and spent way more time and energy on this than I can afford to, but it's a very important issue to me and I want to voice my opinion, even though it feels like I'm dismissed without consideration.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Bones

    Bones Anime Corrupts, Moe Corrupts Absolutely

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    I am in a non-confrontational way curious to know why you feel like we are dismissive of you. more so this attitude seems, to me, pervade your posts as of late. I understand there are assholes on this board, but this hardly signifies the group opinion of you. is everything ok in the land of pez?
     
  15. DarkAudit

    DarkAudit No, I don't want to see your pog collection.

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    I agree with Bones. You say you've stewing over the new rules for the cosplay section for a while now, but to the rest of us, it seemed to come out of nowhere with an extra dose of hostility attached to it.

    You've posted yourself that your health has taken a substantial downturn recently. I would have to wonder if this is really the time to take on revamping the section on your own. At the very least, you should take on an assistant/intern/flunky/lackey until you're feeling better. I rule myself out because of distinct lack of qualifications regarding the subject matter.
     
  16. Gusto

    Gusto El Norte Reactivo! Staff Member

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    Male Privilege in Nerd Culture should be it's own thread. :)
     
  17. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    That is a complicated question, and I wish I had a simple answer to give. In short, I'm just in a very stressful situation, for a variety of reasons, that I'm having to learn to deal with. The TL;DR is: Things will almost certainly work out well in the long run, but it's a confusing pain (literally and figuratively) in the meantime.

    This probably isn't the best place for this, but if anyone is wondering why the cosplay thread has been so hit or miss in updating, especially lately, here goes:

    For those that don't know, I've suffered from chronic health problems since I was 15. I've been in constant, and usually severe, pain for over half of my life. I finally got a diagnosis about a year-and-a-half ago, after more than a decade of being told nothing was wrong and that I was just depressed. I have a widespread fungal infection (lungs, GI tract, skin, etc.) that is now being treated, but it's a long road back to being healthy, if that's even still possible. I was fairly near death, held together by duct tape and providence.

    In addition to my health problems, I still live with my parents and their lives has been in shake-up mode for a while. My dad just retired (epic win for him) but getting ready to retire had a rough final stretch. My mom and sister over-committed themselves by running the tea room at my church's annual arts & crafts festival. That left them tired and irritable for most of October and November, and they still haven't recovered, being further stressed by the holidays. They're also busy, and a little stressed, planning my youngest sister's wedding.

    There are a lot of changes going on in my life. I'm having to re-learn a lot of old skills as I start taking on things I'd been too sick to do for years. More than that, the biggest pyschological stress I've been going through is the return of emotions and hints of optimism. When I was at my sickest, and I didn't fully realize this at the time, my emotions were deadened to the point where I didn't feel much more than fear/anger or mild happiness, except in the rarest of circumstances. In the past 6 months or so, I've started having real and strong emotions again, and obvioiusly I haven't always dealt with that very well.

    For several years just prior to my diagnosis, I had given up on life. I had resigned myself to a slow death and was suicidal at many points. I had given up on having any dreams beyond a small life in front of my computer, and I wasn't even alive enough to feel sad about it. Some recent events have forced me to reexamine those discarded dreams, and while I can't talk about what has spurred this, it's led to no small amount of inner turmoil.

    All the things I'd taken for granted growing up: going to college, getting a job, finding a girl, getting married, having kids, etc. All those I'd banished from my mind, arguably after they'd been ripped from my heart. Now I'm being confronted with the possibility that my life may have a future after all, and quite frankly that scares me enough to leave my legs shaking and my mouth dry. Afraid to even consider such thoughts, because I'm still so incredibly far from anything that can be called normal. Trying to ignore the possibilities only leaves me more upset, and actually facing the future often means exhuming harsh lessons from my past that I didn't learn at the time. It's all very complicated, confusing and more than a little overwhelming; especially during the holidays.

    None of my personal issues have any definite end, or even relief, on the horizon. Just a long slog of slowly rebuilding my body and mind. At this pace any gain is going to be measured in inches, and I have no idea how much progress I can expect before there is no more that can be done to fix what was broken for so long. For now I'm still improving, though it's very slow with ups and downs along the way.


    Again, the TL;DR is: I'm safe and provided for. Nothing is in imminent danger of getting worse, but better isn't moving swiftly at the moment either. There's a lot of stress, but hopefully I'm getting better at handling things, day by day.

    Sorry to vent outside the rant thread, but this just felt right.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. LittleKagsin

    LittleKagsin la femme

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    We love you Pez. =^^= *hug*
    :aaah: + :) = *running around happily* I hope you feel better soon.
     
  19. Dave

    Dave I'm not that fucking old! Staff Member

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    I always wondered what was up but figured it was none of my business so I didn't pry.

    You know we'll always be here and that you're always welcome no matter what.
     
  20. Bones

    Bones Anime Corrupts, Moe Corrupts Absolutely

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    its not mine either, but I don't want somebody running around feeling like nobody gives a shit when obviously thats not how the majority feel about the man.
    look I will apologize now, I am sorry that I pried. however pez was more than welcome to tell me it is none of my business.
     
  21. Dave

    Dave I'm not that fucking old! Staff Member

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    No, no! I am not chastising you for asking and caring. I'm just saying it's never why I asked before. That's not a reflection on you at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
     
  22. Bones

    Bones Anime Corrupts, Moe Corrupts Absolutely

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    oh, sorry...I over reacted like a goofball. don't mind me, we will just blame it on lack of sleep due to final exams.
     
  23. bhamv3

    bhamv3 .

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    Pez man, you're a good guy, and you're one of us. You're the cosplay guru and the game sales radar, but you're also far more than that. Keep us updated on your life, we might not be able to do much, but we care. :)
     
  24. Charlie Don't Surf

    Charlie Don't Surf #BlackLivesMatter

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    I imagine the response to that here wouldn't be that different than the "Men's Rights" reddit.
     
  25. Zero Esc

    Zero Esc Halforums Asshole Assessment Division

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    I am.

    Bones, you're a bad person.
     
  26. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    Pretend it is in English, or bonus to you for understanding Turkish. I couldn't find the English version of just this scene.



    --Patrick
     
  27. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    I've never seen that movie ("V for Vendetta" I assume), thus:

    pancake3.jpg
     
  28. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    Trust me, it is quite relevant. I may be able to arrange a ... private viewing, if you so desire.
    If you have never seen the film, however, it may make more sense if you watch the entire scene (all 15 minutes of it):


    (EDIT: If you have not seen the movie/read the novel, these scenes are quite the spoiler to the plot)

    --Patrick
     
  29. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    A cosplayer tweets:
    "To the people who asked about my taken down videos: I start taking them down when 50% of comments just become crude for no reason.
    "I don't understand why the appearance of girls is so focused on. I'm trying to share my excitement/love for an event, not be a model."
     
  30. Dave

    Dave I'm not that fucking old! Staff Member

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    Did they tweet this to you?
     
  31. Bones

    Bones Anime Corrupts, Moe Corrupts Absolutely

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    honestly, because by definition the majority of heterosexual men like good looking girls, ipso facto with addition of the internet fuckwad theory, you get the "pigs" that every cos-player loathes. Mike Krahulik suggests that, given both anonymity and an audience, an otherwise regular person can become a "total fuckwad," i.e., a very disagreeable person. It's basic anonymity coupled with a mob mentality, I argue for a self-perpetuating internet nuclear chain reaction. what I am saying is the first guy to say something sexist starts the chain reaction. This is how I personally see it at least.
     
  32. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    No, just a tweet in general about her Youtube videos.
     
  33. DarkAudit

    DarkAudit No, I don't want to see your pog collection.

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    Is it intentional that I can't edit my posts in this subforum?
     
  34. Dave

    Dave I'm not that fucking old! Staff Member

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    Posts are only able to be edited for 10 minutes. That's board-wide.
     
  35. figmentPez

    figmentPez Cosplay Czar Staff Member

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    I'm adding a rule.
    - Complaining in the cosplay sub-forum about the rules or moderation is banned outside of this thread. If you don't like the rules, talk about it here or shut up and leave. Being passive-agressive by whining "I can't post what I really want to say" is bullshit and I'm not going to take it.
     
    • Pun Pun x 1
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