cosplay does NOT equal Consent

Is she talking about subjectively creepy pictures, or is it the general expectation that every time you take any picture at a con you request permission of the subjects before you take it?
That brings up an interesting point. I'm sure the majority of fen don't seek permission from rightsholders before dressing up as someone's trademarked/copyrighted property, so the idea of picture-takers needing to ask permission is probably (legally, at least) somewhat of a grey area.

--Patrick
 
But yeah, seriously. Cosplayers are people too.
Yep.

Most of them are as awkward and insecure as the rest of us.
Not sure what this is supposed to get across to the creepers?

Let 'em be who they want for a day without harassing 'em.
They're usually not -harassed- they simply are having pictures taken of them without them liking it's reason. Of course the inappropriate touching discussed earlier is already the line we talked about not crossing.

I've seen girls wear less out in Wrigleyville.
They too have their picture taken without their consent for later -use-
 
Well, I suppose the question for me is, "is the con considered a public place" - legally it is, and legally she has no right to seize another person's property based on suspicion of pictures in a public place. The police have nothing actionable in this case. Well, actually they do - she may have committed assault - but that's irrelevant to my question.

The Con rules are in effect, so they can kick people out for whatever reason, so while it's not a legally gray area, the con makes a gray area where the rule is, essentially, "If you annoy other con attendees, we will probably throw you out."

But my question is only about the cosplayers themselves. Do they expect people to request permission to take a picture? If I take a picture without asking permission, am I an annoyance, and should I be reported?
 
But my question is only about the cosplayers themselves. Do they expect people to request permission to take a picture? If I take a picture without asking permission, am I an annoyance, and should I be reported?
It depends on the cosplayer generally. I, for one, don't expect people to ask permission to take my picture. Some people are actually to shy to ask cosplayers for pictures, so they snap a photo as a cosplayer walks by, or takes a photo from across the room. I'm actually a huge offender of this one because I'm so shy when it comes to asking others for pictures. So, I'm personally not annoyed if people don't ask my permission. I am sad though because it's probably not a good picture in that I'm not in a character pose, or it's probably a pretty bad angle and bad light. If you want a better photo I would always ask.

And if you don't ask permission, no, you shouldn't be reported.

Now if you were to follow a certain cosplayer around and keep taking photos without permission, that moves into creeper territory and if I was the cosplayer being followed, I would go ask him to please leave me alone. If that did nothng, then I would report him.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
This is a screenshot of Yaya Han's twitter right now.
2013_05_31 Yaya Han being harassed at Akon.PNG


Looking through that revolting hashtag, what she quoted is mild. There are explicit threats of rape and other assault, and it's not just being aimed at Yaya Han. Several other cosplayers have been threatened in the same manner. This is from a trolling group, but there is no way to know if this will remain words on Twitter, or if they (or someone else) will act on these threats in the real world. This is disgusting and completely inappropriate.

Please don't give these trolls any more attention here by mentioning their names or the hashtag they're using.
 

Dave

Staff member
I doubt he's planning to grope anyone and that she's overreacting and being dramatic. Having said that, the guy's joke is out of line and dumb. I haven't looked at the hash tag and I probably won't.

But I must say this: You know what makes the cons not safe for kids? Some of the R rated outfits that are worn. Not saying they deserve the abuse because of it, but you can't cry that the actions of these guys are bad because of THE CHILDRENZ! when you're wearing your push-up bra and butt-floss. Just my humble take on it. (By the way, I feel the same way about gay pride parades. We get it. You're gay. Now put your dick away.)
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I doubt he's planning to grope anyone and that she's overreacting and being dramatic. Having said that, the guy's joke is out of line and dumb. I haven't looked at the hash tag and I probably won't.

But I must say this: You know what makes the cons not safe for kids? Some of the R rated outfits that are worn. Not saying they deserve the abuse because of it, but you can't cry that the actions of these guys are bad because of THE CHILDRENZ! when you're wearing your push-up bra and butt-floss. Just my humble take on it. (By the way, I feel the same way about gay pride parades. We get it. You're gay. Now put your dick away.)
While I do agree that it's being overly dramatic to claim "think of the children", I also understand why she's talking about safety. The fact is that even if this guy isn't planning physical harassment, some people are, and making a joke about it only perpetuates the mindset that it can be gotten away with. Cosplayers do have to worry about being assaulted at cons, and sometimes verbal threats made over the internet are acted out. It's not possible for them, or us, to know which are a hoax and which are a warning of imminent danger. If I were a father I wouldn't want my daughter going to a convention without an imposing looking guy or a large group with her, and that's sad, going to a convention should at least be as safe as going to the mall on an average day, but it isn't.
 
Here's a new story in Cosplay creepiness:

A company that was creating 360 degree rotating gifs of cosplayers, decided to use the images for another purpose and started selling pillows with the cosplayers pictures on them (specifically a front picture on one side and a backside picture on the opposite). Reacting to community outrage, the company has already stated that it will no longer sell such products.

Carrie Wink broke the story on her Youtube channel:


Marie Grey's account of finding her own image at their booth: here.

Stories at i09 and Oh!Entertainment.
 
some of these are outright unacceptable sexual harassment, some of them are inappropriate, and some of these are not really wrong, technically sexual harassment and HILARIOUS outside of being inflicted on an actual human being.

the one I dont get is "“I can’t believe I’m really meeting you.” ok seems more star struck than inappropriate.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
some of these are outright unacceptable sexual harassment, some of them are inappropriate, and some of these are not really wrong, technically sexual harassment and HILARIOUS outside of being inflicted on an actual human being.

the one I dont get is "“I can’t believe I’m really meeting you.” ok seems more star struck than inappropriate.
Probably involved a fedora. Anything said to a female whilst wearing a fedora is automatically creepy and sexual.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
7. “That’s the scariest but sexiest cosplay I’ve ever seen.”

I'm failing to see why this one is creepy because I have no idea what costume it was said to. If that were said to someone dressed up as a nurse from Silent Hill, that seems like it would be the ideal description of the costume.

8. “Girl, you all kinds of fine. Thor, you’re so lucky, dude.”

Another one I'm failing to see the creep factor on. Am I missing something?


A lot of of those are really disgusting, and obviously inappropriate, but why dilute the impact of the article by including comments that are dependent on context to be creepy, or are just awkward compliments?
 

Necronic

Staff member
Telling a girl you don't know that she is sexy is sort of innapropriate. Its not that bad, but its innapropriate.
 
7. “That’s the scariest but sexiest cosplay I’ve ever seen.”

I'm failing to see why this one is creepy because I have no idea what costume it was said to. If that were said to someone dressed up as a nurse from Silent Hill, that seems like it would be the ideal description of the costume.

8. “Girl, you all kinds of fine. Thor, you’re so lucky, dude.”

Another one I'm failing to see the creep factor on. Am I missing something?


A lot of of those are really disgusting, and obviously inappropriate, but why dilute the impact of the article by including comments that are dependent on context to be creepy, or are just awkward compliments?

Those are all wrong, man
 
8. “Girl, you all kinds of fine. Thor, you’re so lucky, dude.”

Another one I'm failing to see the creep factor on. Am I missing something?
She was cosplaying Thor's gender-swapped sister! Unless you support incest*? :troll:


*ok, technically Thor's gender-swapped adopted sister. Still, that's some Greg on Marcia Brady territory.
 
I'm of two minds about the sexy cosplay thing.

On one side of the coin, some of those women are hot as hell.

On the other side of the coin, a woman wearing a hot as hell costume is still a person. No matter what my primitive monkey urges are, I have no sense of entitlement about their bodies. I don't have the right to touch them inappropriately (which is pretty much any touching at all, unless it is asked for), it's certainly in extremely poor taste to make certain kinds of comments.

But as Russel Brand once said in an interview: I'm a human being. I have instincts. If your tits are hanging out, and I think they look nice, I'm gonna give them an appreciative glance before moving on.
 
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Because they make most people uncomfortable? I can't speak for everyone, but with someone that you don't know personally, it's probably going to make them uncomfortable to have someone they aren't attracted to talk about how sexy they are. It would be the same for you and I if someone we weren't attracted to said we looked really sexy. I might be flattered, but I would still feel hella uncomfortable.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Because they make most people uncomfortable? I can't speak for everyone, but with someone that you don't know personally, it's probably going to make them uncomfortable to have someone they aren't attracted to talk about how sexy they are. It would be the same for you and I if someone we weren't attracted to said we looked really sexy. I might be flattered, but I would still feel hella uncomfortable.
Exactly. The secret to not being creepy is to be attractive. You can get away with so much more when you're hot.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Because they make most people uncomfortable? I can't speak for everyone, but with someone that you don't know personally, it's probably going to make them uncomfortable to have someone they aren't attracted to talk about how sexy they are. It would be the same for you and I if someone we weren't attracted to said we looked really sexy. I might be flattered, but I would still feel hella uncomfortable.
If I were, say, dressed as gender-swapped Star Sapphire, I'd definitely want to be told I had a sexy costume. That would be the point of the costume, to be sexy. That was I was trying to get at. "The scariest and sexiest costume" seems to me to be the appropriate compliment to give to a Silent Hill nurse, or for many female vampire characters. The point of the character is to be scary and sexy at the same time, and being told that you correctly embody the character seems to be the appropriate compliment.

Now if someone went up to someone playing Annie and Mr. Tibbers from League of Legends and said the same thing... Yeah, it's pretty damn creepy to tell someone dressed as a child with a teddy bear that they're sexy. The comment needs more context than was provided to be creepy.

Also, since when is "fine" a sexual compliment, or telling a guy he's lucky to be with a beautiful woman seen as creepy? Maybe it would have been better to compliment them as a couple, rather than just the guy only, but to put this on a list of the creepiest comments just doesn't fit for me. It's not a good compliment by any means, and it should probably be saved for people you know personally, but it's not even sexually suggestive, let alone blatantly sexual like some of this other stuff. I'm not defending it as something that should be said, I'm just questioning if it really deserves to be on the list as an example of "never go there".
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Now if someone went up to someone playing Annie and Mr. Tibbers from League of Legends and said the same thing...
I've tried to convince the little woman that we should do that as a couple's costume for halloween, in the past. Her as Annie, and me in a great big psycho bear suit as Mr. Tibbers. She doesn't think enough people would get it though, and isn't interested in going to cons.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I've tried to convince the little woman that we should do that as a couple's costume for halloween, in the past. Her as Annie, and me in a great big psycho bear suit as Mr. Tibbers. She doesn't think enough people would get it though, and isn't interested in going to cons.
Let's see, LoL has 32 million users that play at least monthly, but I can't find stats for just the US. The world is about 7.1 billion people, but only maybe 30% have some sort of broadband access. I'm sure the overlap isn't perfect, but I'd say 2.1 Billion people in regions that are affluent enough to play LoL, like the US is. That comes out to about 1.5% of global broadband subscribers play League of Legends. That's some pretty hefty numbers.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Let's see, LoL has 32 million users that play at least monthly, but I can't find stats for just the US. The world is about 7.1 billion people, but only maybe 30% have some sort of broadband access. I'm sure the overlap isn't perfect, but I'd say 2.1 Billion people in regions that are affluent enough to play LoL, like the US is. That comes out to about 1.5% of global broadband subscribers play League of Legends. That's some pretty hefty numbers.
League is still pretty niche. Nobody I work with is aware of it. Even among my RL gamer friends, only two know what League is, and that's because I showed them - and one of them wasn't interested enough to stick with it. Oh, but that other buddy of mine? Took it WAY too seriously and had to give it up to preserve his health and sanity. So he'd have gotten it. But the other 50 or so people I deal with routinely probably wouldn't.
 
The most inappropriate thing that's been said to me was at SDCC a couple years ago. I was in my Amber and this guy asked for a hug. He had a camera with the memory all full and gushed about all the "pretty girls" at con and how he wanted photos of everyone, so he asked for a hug. I said "sure..." and during the hug he asked, "Hey, is it okay if I get a little ass grab too?" Fuck off.
 
GasBandit said:
I've tried to convince the little woman that we should do that as a couple's costume for halloween, in the past. Her as Annie, and me in a great big psycho bear suit as Mr. Tibbers. She doesn't think enough people would get it though, and isn't interested in going to cons.
My daughter is going to be Annie for Denver Comic con next year. My husband refuses to be Tibbers. :(
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Seems to me Tibbers would be a good medium-high level costume challenge, too. I mean, Annie's a dress and a wig, maybe one of those headband things. Tibbers though, you can't just throw on a bear costume. There's the stitches, the glowing eyes, the claws and maybe even the teeth. A really good Tibbers costume could be tricky to pull off without a dedicated tailor and access to an injection molder.
 
For 7... it's rather odd, and may or may not be welcome. So I think the cosplayers response will vary.

For 8 ("Girl, you all kinds of fine. Thor, you’re so lucky, dude.”) Having a complete stranger comment on your appearance then talk over you to specualte on your sex life/relationship? Not OK. Also, seriously shitty grammar (offensive in it's own special way, but not creepy necessarily).

Also, keep in mind that these are the creepiest things that these women have experienced, and so may not seem creepy to another individual - they certainly didn't to the people who said them! And of course, this is not a list of top 10 creepy things said to cosplayers ever. That, I think, would be a very different list.
 
Probably involved a fedora. Anything said to a female whilst wearing a fedora is automatically creepy and sexual.
I can be creepy and sexual without my hat, thank you very much!

Also blame the perpetrator not the hat. We shouldn't condone hat blaming here. :p
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Also blame the perpetrator not the hat. We shouldn't condone hat blaming here. :p
I find it tremendously ironic that the fedora has become a symbol of male sexism, because it's named after the lead female character in the play Fedora, and was originally associated with the women's rights movement over 100 years ago.
 
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