[Movies] Avengers: Endgame Spoilers Thread

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#36
I wonder what the 4 hpur cut looked like.

Is that enough?

I don't think I have any complaints except time travel shenanigans, which trying to figure out is pointless, and the guy next to me who had zero faith in his kid's intelligence and kept explaining stuff even though the stuff the kid said made it clear she didn't need any help. Julie and I must have shushed him a dozen times combined. Clint and Natasha on Vormir is a good time for a bathroom break.

Loved seeing Professor Hulk.

Loved the zaniness of time traveling to past movies.

I was in tears as Cap went one-on-one with Thanos. Getting the hammer, the lightning, just all of it. I thought he was about to die, and then "on your left." That was my happy place.

And what a finale. Even the girl power scene; Julie and I were giddy.

I'm wondering how much of the announcements we've heard are bullshit. RDJ saying he'd be making cameos, the Black Widow movie nobody wanted, WandaVision? And Sam is now Captain America. I guess we'll see.
 

Dave

Staff member
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#37
I'm curious about Sam as Cap, honestly. He's just a dude in a suit. As Cap he'd lose all of his technological edges and just be a cosplayer who can fight. No super strength. Nothing.
 
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#39
I'm curious about Sam as Cap, honestly. He's just a dude in a suit. As Cap he'd lose all of his technological edges and just be a cosplayer who can fight. No super strength. Nothing.
In the comics he kept using his Falcon stuff, too.

Aaaaaaahhhhhh the end credit!!!!!
It was funny that when the credits ended and the staff said there was no end credits scene, people were still waiting as we left like they just couldn't believe it. Marvel got us trained.

We stayed just to soak it all in. I still remember the day I saw Incredible Hulk and Iron Man as a double feature in 2008. I was 22 and that feels like forever ago; I can't imagine how Endgame feels for kids who've grown up with this.
 
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#41
I'm curious about Sam as Cap, honestly. He's just a dude in a suit. As Cap he'd lose all of his technological edges and just be a cosplayer who can fight. No super strength. Nothing.
Big man in a suit of armor. Take that off, what is he?
 
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#43
I need to rewatch IW, I could have sworn Thanos explaining how he got the Soul Stone is what set Quill off. But Nebula had to know because she told past-Gamora what happend to her (or was about to. I assume by their friendship she did.) So at the very least, Nebula knew, but then again, the only 2 Avengers she remotely cared about at that point were Rocket and Tony, so maybe she just didn't give a damn.
It was Mantis saying what she was getting from Thanos as she tried to shut him down.
 
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#44
Ok, end credits by hobo;

No movie scene, just after all the credits are done, you hear the sound of a hammer hitting metal.

Now all the happy people think it's Tony making his armour in the cave and closes the saga. I say no, the entire movie was closure.

But they are almost correct, it's not Tony building armour, it's Victor von Doom making his armour.

Why? Well the studio owns the rights to him now.

Two, in the mind of Victor, the Avengers fucked up on a massive scale, it would be clear to him that the only to keep the Earth safe is if he conquers it.

Three, they just finished a massive arc where the threat is aliens. So the next the next arc will not be from space, so Earth based.

Four, the running theme for the first arc was Tony saves the day, it's classic storytelling to flip the coin. Doom makes a great choice for that, he's Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Black Panther as a single villain.

Five, they fix Doom. Doom doesn't act like a buffoon like the FF movies, he works in the background. The mastermind who only truly gets revealed in the big movie to end the arc.
 
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#45
From the ruins of Sokovia, a young, charismatic, and brilliant scientist rises up to lead the people. He genuinely has the nation and the people's best interests at heart, so even though he's a bit of an egomaniac and has something of a mean streak, everyone in Sokovia still rallies behind him and follows him willingly, because he's actually producing tangible results to make everything better. That's why no one objects when he announces that Sokovia will be renamed Latveria, to make a clean break from the tragedies of the past.
 
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#46
And the Black Widow movie is a prequel, perhaps focusing on all her work in Eastern Europe, a perfect chance to highlight the setting.
 
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#47
Next year's Marvel slate being kind of weak-sounding and Julie and I planning to watch Far From Home ... at home ... I might just take a break from the MCU until 2021. That there was no end credits scene feels fitting. I left the theater not looking ahead to what's next, but completely satisfied.
 
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#48
I'll be honest, I didn't notice the girl power scene. I just watched the movie and then started reading this thread, and couldn't figure out what the girl power scene was until someone started it was Captain Marvel's backup. Up until then it hadn't occurred to me that it was all the female characters, I just thought it was another glory pose moment to show everyone that came back.
 
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#49
  • That beginning. Holy shit. I mean, we all figured that's why Clint became the Ronan, but to open the movie like that. Holy fuckballs.
I called that it was gonna open with that scene as soon as they showed part of it in the trailers.

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I cried so many times. SO MANY TIMES.

  • Tony speaking with Howard started it for me.
  • Nat's death.
  • Rocket saying "I can't breathe, I can't breathe!"
  • When everyone that got snapped returned and when Peter and Tony reunite.
  • Tony's rest.
  • The hologram message.
  • Morgan saying cheeseburgers when asked what she was hungry for by Happy.
  • Professor Hulk saying he tried to snap Nat back and that he misses her, so much.
  • Old Steve and him passing the shield to Sam.
  • Steve and Peggy finally getting their dance.

I'm almost tearing up typing them all out.

There is timetravel fuckery that is annoying and you just have to either accept or not but I was so happy with the way this all played out.
 
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#50
No, what she said (as I recall) is that the infinity stones, together, kept the timeline stable. If you take one out, you allow time to branch, but if all six are present, there is only a single timeline. According to this, there are no additional timelines at the end of the movie.
To me is sounded just like regular Marvel comics timeline splitting, and the reason taking the time stone created a divergent timeline that was bad was because then Strange couldn't defeat Dormammu.

In the comics, you can't really change your own past, even if you can change your reality's past (unless you have a Doomlock), it just makes it no longer your reality, and you and now from an alternate reality future, like Cable, Rachel Summers, Bishop etc.

It's also why AoA, DoFP, Cable's Future etc all still exist as separate realities, even though they where all futures/alternate presents of 616 (the main continuity) originally.

So, if they keep to the comics logic, then Tesseract-Loki and No-Thanos are new timelines... although, they should replace the original MCU universe, and what we saw in Endgame should have become an alternate reality, with the T-Loki timeline becoming the proper Earth-199999 (which is the official designation for the MCU)...
 
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#51
Right, so I'll just free-write rant for a bit, in case we still need to do that. But I just got back from seeing it with my nieces.

Ho. Lee. Shit. Despite criticisms, they really did stick the landing. They stuck the HELL out of that landing.
(Note: I ranted about this a LOT more than I intended. Sorry, there's lots I wanted to cover.)

Okay, quick things I loved:

-That ballsy opening. Given that they used technology before to find the Tesseract in Avengers (it emitted gamma radiation, as noted in this as well), it made sense how they could track him down. Combine it with alien tech and combined genius of Tony, Rocket, and Bruce, and it makes sense. But WOW, I didn't think they'd jump right to Thanos right off the bat. A HELL of an opening.
-Forced or not, I loved the "girl power" and I hope it means we get an A-Force movie. Watching it with my niece helped, who cheered right alongside me. I get that Captain Marvel is over-powered, but you could say the same of Thor, who cleaned out armies no problem in Infinity War and felt kind of de-powered here. Maybe it was the beer gut. But it was still an awesome moment.

-All the little callbacks. "On your left," was a really great surprise.
-ANT-MAN PUNCHING A SPACE WHALE.
-I was in tears watching everyone come out of the portals. I did NOT expect so many armies, but it made sense. Sorcerers, Asgardians, Wakandans. Probably one or two I missed, like some people from space?
-REALLY cool, quick shot with all the sorcerers creating shields around the battlefield.
-Nat & Clint's very emotional fight because it could have EASILY been either one of them. I was on the edge of my seat, wondering which one could go.

(Sidenote on that: No one knew how Gamorra died. They just knew Thanos got the Soul Stone and she didn't come back with him. Even Thanos and Gamorra were surprised to hear how the Soul Stone could be retrieved. Thanos didn't explain anything aside from "He mourns" and "I had to." So they had no clue that they were sending Nat or Clint off to die.)

-The time travel was kind of a highlight reel or clip episode from a TV show. But it worked because each timeline was basically for the Big Three (Thor, Steve, Tony), both as a final send-off for each and gave them character development. Plus, the elevator scene was perfect. From what I could tell, they had ALL the same actors who played the thugs in Winter Soldier's scene.
-Times I cheered: Cap using the hammer (and like a pro!) and "Avengers Assemble!"

-I loved how everyone at the funeral was grouped by their respective franchise. That was a really nice touch. (Didn't know who the kid was until I looked it up: apparently the kid Tony was with for part of Iron Man 3)

Things I liked, but kinda iffy on:

-Thor letting himself go. I just saw an interview where he wanted Thor to return to the more comedic side like in Ragnarok. And we got that. I think they leaned a little too hard on the comedy, but it makes sense for his character. We've seen he doesn't deal well with things that don't go his way. So, living with the guilt that, even though he vanquished Thanos, it wouldn't bring anyone back? That he blamed himself for even letting Thanos win in the first place? It makes sense.

-Professor Hulk. I agree with @Dave that it came out of nowhere. But it was also 5 years of development. Personally, if I'd written his part there, I would've maybe shown him having sessions with Doc Sampson or something, as a nice return for a character from that solo movie. Plus, it was Uncanny Valley City watching Ruffalo acting and voice coming from Hulk. Especially the face. Still, he was a great addition to everything, with a lot of comedy. That said, with Thor now leaning more on comedy, he'll fit right in Asgardians of the Galaxy Vol 3. Plus, he has Stormbreaker. Who's to say they don't meet Beta Ray Bill? (who wields it in the comics)

- I think the time travel stuff, while fun, ran a little too long. It felt very Back to the Future 2 (which, to be fair, was on the sleeve blatant about that), with a lot of sneaking around, watching stuff play out while hiding, and a bunch of jokes. There's questions on how it might mess up the timeline (Cap & Peggy, Loki), but as with all time travel, it's best not to think about it too much and just enjoy the ride.

-Were Nebula and War Machine a couple? It seemed like they grew close, but it's kind of vague.
-Falcon getting the shield. I'm all for it, but I think it would've been better suited to Bucky, as a final cap-off to his and Steve's story. (Heh, Cap-Off)
-Nat sacrificing herself was great and made sense, but man, she really got the short end of the mourning stick compared to Tony. Which, I get. RDJ started it all and we all knew he probably wasn't making it out alive in either Infinity War or this. But I kinda wish they had a duel funeral for them both or something.

Criticisms

-No Vision. I get that he was a pre-dusting death and they stuck to those (with some workarounds), it didn't feel right he wasn't there at the end. I'd hoped they did it by explaining he was MOSTLY separated from the Mind Stone by the time he joined the fray in Infinity War, and it was a matter of piecing him together. But with everything going on, that would've needed more running time in an already long movie. But I thought there were designs or set photos of him in an all-white look similar to how he's looked in the comics at one point or another. I was just disappointed he wasn't there for the end.

-I wasn't crazy about Stan Lee's cameo in this. I thought maybe he could've been among the funeral. No need to explain it. Just let him be there. But I know they filmed a lot of cameos far in advance. I think his last one is Spider-Man: Far From Home.

-This is kind of my big takeaway, but...

This felt like such a satisfying conclusion to the past 10 years and 20-some movies that...I'm not sure I really feel like seeing anything past this. Sure, they set things up for the future and hinted at others, but I'm honestly not sure if anything will ever top this build up and finale. I'm not sure if I'm game for another 20 movies culminating in another big, operatic finale. Not because it wouldn't be awesome, but I don't think they can accomplish the same trick twice (maybe me in 2029 will think otherwise). There's so many emotions that I don't think they could evoke a second time.

I'm not saying I won't see future movies, but I feel a lot less inclined to see them, now. On the one hand, I wish they'd set up some kind of tease at the end of this (ala Thanos in the first Avengers), but on the other hand, it wouldn't have felt like a definitive conclusion then. Of anything from this, I'm probably most looking forward to Guardians 3. The solo movies should still be fun, but I just don't see what they could build up to if they use a similar formula for the next phases. My first thought is all the time-travel catches the attention of Kang.

But yeah, I don't know. I felt so definitively satisfied by this that I don't think the magic will ever be recreated. Even though I have a feeling they'll try.
 
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#52
So many callbacks being pointed out online that I missed (and I caught a lot), it's no wonder people are seeing this two or three times.

The team putting fists in a circle mirrored Tony's heart from the first Iron Man.

The cheeseburger bit with Morgan calling back to Tony wanting a cheeseburger when he gets back in the first Iron Man.

Little nods too, like the characters who play hot potato with the Gauntlet will be those carrying the torch of the MCU in future movies. I appreciated Hulk holding up the building reference.

So many satisfying moments. I'm glad there was no credits scene.
 
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#53
Oh, and the music.

I know the score hasn't always been the MCU's strong suit. Good soundtracks, but many characters don't have set themes, and a lot of action-y bits get so generic, it's hard to tell what belongs to who. Much as I didn't care for Age of Ultron, I'm grateful to Danny Elfman for using Alan Silvestri's Avengers theme, as that solidified it being the Avengers theme. He cares about that stuff, as he's said on record and has shown even in crummy films like Justice League.

The music was another big callback venture though. Alan Silvestri would of course utilize his Avengers theme, but I appreciated little things like a bit of music from Winter Soldier for Steve, a bit of Captain Marvel for Carol. I haven't compared for myself, but when Thanos's forces are turning to dust, it's apparently the same music as when Tony carries the nuke through the portal in the first Avengers, because he's making the ultimate sacrifice again.

And then there's the music for the scene when the portals open:

I appreciate that it begins not as triumphant, but reassuring. "Yes, they're back. No, they're ALL back." And we get to see not just that the cavalary's here, but how MUCH cavalry there is, and all their individual quirks like the sorcerers' discs or the Wakandans' chants, and the music builds to triumphant for when everyone's present, facing Thanos's forces. And then the Avengers theme kicks in.

Absolutely beautiful work.

Hell, I might go again after all.
 
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#54
Another totally random thought:

For Black Panther 2, I hope we don't get another giant battle involving Wakandan armies. We've seen them three times now. And they're great, but I'm all Wakanda armied out.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
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#56
Saw it. Loved it. Yeah there were some issues, but I don't really think we could really realistically have expected any more for the capstone to the series. I love how it tied everything together.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
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#59
Anti-spoiler buffer

Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga

... alright, now the spoiler...

Did anybody have any ideas about the anvil forging noise during the marvel logo in the post-credits?
 
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#61
Edit: We still doing the spoiler buffer? I thought that was done away with. Oh well, here a bit of nonsense text for you:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.




Saw it over the weekend, loved it. I do have some of the same concerns as other people.

  • Professor Hulk all the time was a bit weird. I was hoping that he would Hulk out a bit more at certain points (trying to hold up the building would have been a great spot).
  • Where did War Machine get the replacement armor if he was stuck under the building and didn't get out until Ant-Man Giant-Manned them out? He just kinda showed up with the new armor already on and no shot of it flying to him or whatever.
  • I totally fanboyed at Cap finally saying "Avengers Assemble!" and the Captain Thormerica bit. I even said "I knew it!" right before Thor did.
  • I thought the girl-power moment was a bit forced. It was cool but forced.
  • They went on & on about not changing the past and then at the end just wiped out Thanos and all of his forces.
    • Doesn't that mean that Thanos disappears from the past and isn't around to collect the stones and cause all this to happen in the first place?
    • Was Gamora still technically part of Thanos' forces and also got snapped?
    • They killed past-Nebula, but present-Nebula was still around how exactly?
    • There was some talk and I have seen some explanations online that the Infinity Stones, when they are all in the same timeline together, they keep a single timeline flowing.
      • So, does that mean that when they are returned, they repaired the timeline to the standard MCU we have seen, including Thanos NOT coming to the future and performing the snap? I think this could have been explained a bit better.
      • That would generally fix everything except after Thanos used the stones to destroy them, in the timeline going forward, there is nothing keeping branching timelines from forming. So, new heroes could have a different timeline to explain why there are no other heroes around (I'm looking at you, X-men franchise).
      • What is now keeping Dormammu from coming for this dimension? Maybe that is what Dr. Strange 2 will be about, but that is basically a retread of the plot from the first movie and kinda lame.
  • Tony's funeral seemed a little odd. I thought many of the people there looked like they had been poorly CGI'd into the scene. Dr. Strange/Buttercup Cumbersnatch looked especially thinner and lighter than he should have in the scene. Everyone else seemed a little out of place also. I understand it is hard to get that many actors all in one spot at the same time and they may have had to shoehorn a few in, but it was not done well.
    • Also, had to look up the kid at the back as well before my spouse realized he was the kid from Iron Man 3.
  • A personal thought on the hammer/anvil sound at the very end was that it was a call-back to Tony in the cave in Afghanistan. If they had meant it to be a teaser for something, then I think we would have gotten a scene or further explanation and not just an ambiguous sound.
 
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#62
Anti-spoiler buffer

Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga

... alright, now the spoiler...

Did anybody have any ideas about the anvil forging noise during the marvel logo in the post-credits?
Yes, scroll up. It's Victor von Doom making his armour.
 
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#64
Saw it this weekend with my kids and for the most part loved it. Was one of the most comic booky of comic book movies.

That said.... blah blah blah blah.....


Was really disappointed in the fridging of Black Widow. It was a dumb rehash of the same dumb fridging decision with Gamora from IW without any of the emotional weight. They really should have had had Hawkeye walk up to Red Skull and say, "I already lost that which I love the most.... my family, and the Soul Stone should've appeared for him. Sure it would've been a little bit of a copout but I would've preferred that to what we got.

Overall though it didn't detract from an otherwise enjoyable experience.
 
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#65
Was really disappointed in the fridging of Black Widow. It was a dumb rehash of the same dumb fridging decision with Gamora from IW without any of the emotional weight. They really should have had had Hawkeye walk up to Red Skull and say, "I already lost that which I love the most.... my family, and the Soul Stone should've appeared for him. Sure it would've been a little bit of a copout but I would've preferred that to what we got.

Overall though it didn't detract from an otherwise enjoyable experience.
I don't think Black Widow's death worked as well as Gamora's, but I wouldn't really consider either a "fridging". Both died because of choices they made and the audience saw. Both got significant character beats during their respective movies. (Gamora especially -- as I recall, she got more screen time in IW than any character save Thanos.)

That being said -- your idea with Hawkeye is really clever and I bet Jeremy Renner could have sold the heck out of that.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
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#66
Yeah, but I don't think it fit the nature of the requirement to retrieve the stone. Hawkeye had his family TAKEN from him, he did not CHOOSE to SACRIFICE them to gain the power of the stone.
 
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#67
Hoo boy, my young coworker is going to a special reserved showing tonight....arranged as a funeral for a friend.
 
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#68
Something that bothered me since I saw the movie.


Who was the teenager standing alone during Tony's funeral?
Everybody was standing with their "family" except for him and I can't remember who he was. Is he the boy from Iron Man 3?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
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#69
Something that bothered me since I saw the movie.


Who was the teenager standing alone during Tony's funeral?
Everybody was standing with their "family" except for him and I can't remember who he was. Is he the boy from Iron Man 3?
Yeah, the kid from IM3
 
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