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All your guns are belong in this thread.

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Jun 15, 2016#1

PatrThom

So since there was no existing thread (that wasn't locked or behind a wall) I started this one to discuss firearms, firearm safety, firearm choices, and how difficult it can be to obtain a phased plasma rifle in the 40W range.

Since discussion about this particular topic can get rather heated, I've at least stuck it in the political subforum.

GasBandit said:
Despite my enthusiasm for the 2nd amendment, I actually only own one gun, and I only got it a few years ago. It's a pump action shotgun, a Mossberg Maverick 88 with an 18.5" barrel chambered for 12 gauge. Well, technically, my father has also said that the Ruger Mk II target pistol (.22 cal) that I favored when I lived at home is mine for the taking whenever I want it, but I haven't gotten the chance to go get it (I'd have to drive, as I'd rather not try to get it through airport security). Anyway, I got the shotgun thinking it'd have worse wall penetration than a rifle or pistol (and I'd probably have gotten a .45 or a 380 if I'd gotten a pistol), so as to have a reduced chance of perforating neighbors if I had to nail a critter or a home invader, but it turns out 00 buckshot penetrates walls just fine. Whups.

Go get it when you get the chance. Mark IIs are extremely reliable, easy to keep clean, and highly desirable. If you don't get it yourself, you are potentially allowing some other, more opportunistic relative a chance at a very valuable windfall.
00 (or "double-aught") buckshot is actually slightly larger than .32 cal, so it stands to reason it would penetrate at least as well as handgun ammo of that caliber. Even birdshot can penetrate walls at that close range. You can compensate for this by handloading your own rounds to much lower muzzle velocity, or with plastic pellets or beanbags, but that's a lot of work. The reason shotguns have earned that "home defense" reputation is because their pattern spreads so quickly that they are not good at distance (good for houses set apart, not so much for apartments/trailer parks) and because the sound of racking a slide is supposed to be so well-known that burglars will flee in terror.
In reality, shotguns are not as great for home defense as their reputation suggests because they are physically too long and overpowered to function well in a confined space (such as a home). This is why things like The Judge exist.

GasBandit said:
I'm his only son, and he's already verbally promised it to me But yeah, that thing is awesome. It's got the bull barrel so the balance is exquisite and the recoil is nonexistant, and all the other stuff you said too.

The bull barreled ones go for an even higher premium, so yeah, you need to make that one yours. When contemplating the drive, pretend he's offering you $500, because he practically is. Just make sure you apply for the permit to purchase (or whatever they do in your state) prior to the trip, otherwise you'll have problems down the line.

--Patrick

Jun 15, 2016#2

Gruebeard

This is my rifle, this is my gun . . . ?

Jun 15, 2016#3

PatrThom

Gruebeard said:
This is my rifle, this is my gun . . . ?

I considered "weapons," but that felt too vague.
See first sentence in first post for confirmation.

--Patrick

Jun 15, 2016#4

GasBandit

Well, now that I'm home, I can take a picture of it.

The Mossberg Maverick 88 pump action 12 gauge. 18.5" barrel, in Tacticool black, with 5 round elastic stock bandolier and 10 round padded carrying strap, tube magazine holding 5. I'm not one of those guys who has to keep a round chambered all the time, though.

Jun 16, 2016#5

Frank

My sidearm is kept at work.

Jun 16, 2016#6

Tinwhistler

When we got together, my wife was deathly afraid of guns. Not in the "if a gun is pointed at me, I have every right to be deathly afraid" sense, but rather in the "there's a gun theoretically sharing the same living space as me, oh my god, we're all gonna die" sense.

Then, one weekend, the company I worked for sent us all to Rough Creek Lodge for a company retreat. There, I convinced her to do some clay shooting. After getting over her initial resistance, she found that she rather enjoyed it--and now the gun in the house no longer bothers her.

I used to have a 40 caliber Walther p99 pistol (and since I used to own a crappy Texas Instruments computer as a teen, I always wall call this a p99/4A hah) and a 30.06 rifle of unknown provenance--I bought it from a co-worker in the 90's who was down on his luck. There were no makers marks anywhere on the gun, and the gun people I took it to figured it was some kind of foreign Springfield knock-off. Both were sold before I filed for divorce from my previous wife.

Now, I don't have a rifle any longer, but do still have a smith and wesson sd9ve that I've done some custom work to in order to reduce the trigger pull. The guy in the video takes 10 minutes to do it. It took me an hour. Heh

Jun 23, 2016#7

Officer_Charon

I own a Glock 21 .45 caliber, Generation 2 - my previous sidearm. My current sidearm. Is a Gen 4 Glock 21. Both are kept at home, loaded with spare mags nearby. Personal is kept in a gun safe atop my armor stand. My belt is (currently) kept hung on a door too high for my kids to reach, but only until I can get a safe that will hold both pistols and my taser.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Jun 24, 2016#8

Denbrought

I am effectively prohibited from owning firearms because of the Brady Act.

Sep 21, 2017#9

Eriol

Good video about weapons in Canada:

I have this starting where he talks about antique firearms, because I found that the most interesting/insane, but the whole first part is a good summary. 2nd half is about knives/swords/other.

Sep 21, 2017#10

sixpackshaker

I have a SMLE, SKS, Ruger 10/22, Single Shot 20 gauge shotgun. Ruger P95dc, Springfield Armory .40 XDm. And a Saturday Night Special 9mm that can't fire a full clip with out jamming.

Sep 21, 2017#11

Gruebeard

sixpackshaker said:
And a Saturday Night Special 9mm that can't fire a full clip with out jamming.

I'm picturing a pistol getting down on the dance floor.

Sep 21, 2017#12

sixpackshaker

Gruebeard said:
I'm picturing a pistol getting down on the dance floor.

Just a pistol that costs less than $100.

And that'd be the Saturday Night Fever...

Sep 21, 2017#13

Gruebeard

sixpackshaker said:
Just a pistol that costs less than $100.

And that'd be the Saturday Night Fever...

You got a new nickname for your gun!

Aug 9, 2018#14

DarkAudit

Aug 9, 2018#15

PatrThom

I had no idea something like this existed.
I think I liked it better that way.

--Patrick

Aug 9, 2018#16

Ravenpoe

DarkAudit said:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen, and I live in Florida.

Aug 22, 2018#17

DarkAudit

Bright light! Bright light!

Aug 22, 2018#18

PatrThom

DarkAudit said:
Bright light! Bright light!

Before it was stolen, my father used to have a .357 S&W with a 2in barrel. Firing that thing at night was...impressive.

--Patrick

Sep 23, 2018#19

DarkAudit

The gun version of Mercedes selling off all it's tooling to produce Trabis...

Dec 5, 2018#20

DarkAudit

The man who provided the WVU Mountaineer mascots with their trademark black powder muzzleloaders since 1977 has passed away.

Jun 4, 2019#21

PatrThom

You know, I get what they're going for, but... I really don't think what is essentially blackmail is the right way to go about it.

Salesforce institutes new policy barring retail customers who use its technology from selling semiautomatic weapons and some other firearms.

behind the scenes in recent weeks, the Silicon Valley tech giant has delivered [a] message to gun-selling retailers such as Camping World: Stop selling military-style rifles, or stop using our software.

--Patrick

Jun 4, 2019#22

sixpackshaker

STOP DOING THIS LEGAL THING OR WE WILL BE UPSET....

I am that weird liberal that believes in constitutional rights.

Jun 5, 2019#23

Tress

sixpackshaker said:
STOP DOING THIS LEGAL THING OR WE WILL BE UPSET....

I am that weird liberal that believes in constitutional rights.

I would argue that the Constitution does not prohibit a business choosing not to work with another business. The Constitution has nothing to do with it and no one's rights are being violated.

Jun 5, 2019#24

sixpackshaker

Software is a public service, it should be available to anyone that wants to use it and pay. Just like a lunch counter or bakery.

Jun 5, 2019#25

Tress

Yeah, no. It's not the same at all.

Jun 5, 2019#26

Eriol

sixpackshaker said:
Software is a public service, it should be available to anyone that wants to use it and pay. Just like a lunch counter or bakery.

IIRC you're only prohibited from dealing with someone/thing if you were discriminating on protected grounds (race, sex, a few others). If you're saying "I don't like you because you did X that's unrelated to my business with you" then you're perfectly within your rights to refuse service. Hell, I think it'd be legal to refuse service to anybody wearing a Toupee, but probably prohibited to refuse service to somebody because they're bald. I may not be right on that one though.

So I actually agree with @Tress on this one over you @sixpackshaker .

Now do I think that this is good business, or desirable? No I don't, but I wouldn't say it's a legal matter. That's the tricky thing with many things like "Freedom of Speech" and related: it's only applicable to government most of the time. Because them defining such things gets different because they can actually jail you. Now when you get into corporations doing such, which are "government-esque" in their reach of power, should there be controls on such? Maybe, but maybe not. Maybe more "free" services (beer or speech, take your pick) will dominate as people go away from where they feel they're being controlled. Or maybe not. It gets weirder when it goes into monopoly territory and free speech and "banning" people based on legal speech (Google, Facebook, Twitter), but generally, a business can choose to do (or not) business with anyone they wish.

That's one of the downsides of freedom - you have to let people do "bad" things, because the government policing everything gets darker a lot faster.

Jun 5, 2019#27

PatrThom

Eriol said:
generally, a business can choose to do (or not) business with anyone they wish. That's one of the downsides of freedom - you have to let people do "bad" things, because the government policing everything gets darker a lot faster.

I know I said it before, but a corporation is, by definition, amoral. It doesn't care what it does or doesn't do, whether it even lives or dies.
However, the people driving a corporation, should they be allowed to wield that corporation as a club to further their own agenda?
On the one hand I want to say yes, because that would allow a company to exert pressure on unethical suppliers of labor or materials, but on the other hand this permits a handful of execs to withhold and starve humanitarian causes or support regressive ones, so I admit I'm conflicted about the "should it even be allowed?" part.

--Patrick

Jun 5, 2019#28

blotsfan

While technically all decisions a publicly traded company makes has to be about making more money, it's easy to sell things like this as "the good PR will make us more than selling to Gander does." Since that's not objectively false (and kinda impossible to prove), it's legal for them to do.

Jun 5, 2019#29

Eriol

@PatrThom you point out one of the large reasons IMO why Corporations have been able to pervert Western Democracy in so many ways: they weren't accounted for when the structures of such were setup. The power of such an entity was not predicted, hence why there was a lot more effort on dealing with "Great Individuals" (or some variant language thereof) than something like a Corporate Entity. So how to "deal with" them is poorly defined, poorly understood, and thus poorly dealt with.

Jun 6, 2019#30

Bubble181

blotsfan said:
While technically all decisions a publicly traded company makes has to be about making more money,

No, they don't, and this lie being told often enough that people now believe it fully is one of the reasons modern democratic capitalism is heading for a great big blow-up. It's exactly what bankers were saying prior to the Great Depression, and before the 2008 crash - and after that second, people apparently didn't learn.

There's no reason why a company, publicly traded or no, should hold money as the one and only guiding principle.

Jun 6, 2019#31

figmentPez

Bubble181 said:
There's no reason why a company, publicly traded or no, should hold money as the one and only guiding principle.

You're damn right. I can't count how many times I've heard people say "the purpose of a business is to make as much money as possible", and that's absolutely wrong. The purpose of a business is the fair and equatable exchange of goods and/or services. If a business puts making as much money as possible over the practice of fair trade, then they're not a business, they're a scam.

Jun 6, 2019#32

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
There's no reason why a company, publicly traded or no, should hold money as the one and only guiding principle.

I mean, there completely is a reason to do so, but that reason is (usually) that shareholders* demand that a company grow, Grow, GROW in order to maximize the return on their investment, consequences be damned. So still profit motive, just once removed.

figmentPez said:
If a business puts making as much money as possible over the practice of fair trade, then they're not a business, they're a scam.

Well, I wouldn’t say a “scam,” exactly, but I’d certainly agree a business that puts profit above people is not the sort of business that deserves my business (Looking at YOU, healthcare!), if I want that perception to change.

—Patrick
*sometimes “all the shareholders” just means the three funds that hold all their stock, but that just means the profit motive is now twice removed.

Jun 6, 2019#33

Eriol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary

aka: Fiduciary responsibility, or Fiduciary Duty. The only reason to have "good" behavior is if reputation drives more business and money to you. Otherwise, fuck it. Anything else you're told about corporations is an outright lie IMO. It's all a means to an end, or else they aren't doing their job.

Jun 6, 2019#34

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
Well, I wouldn’t say a “scam,” exactly, but I’d certainly agree a business that puts profit above people is not the sort of business that deserves my business (Looking at YOU, healthcare!), if I want that perception to change.

If someone knowingly takes advantage of someone (i.e. They intentionally conduct what they know to be an unfair exchange of goods and or services), that's a scam. Scam: to swindle, cheat, defraud, to obtain by deceit. Put it however you want, if someone knows that they are unfairly taking advantage of someone else, they are a crook.

Jun 6, 2019#35

figmentPez

Eriol said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary

aka: Fiduciary responsibility, or Fiduciary Duty. The only reason to have "good" behavior is if reputation drives more business and money to you. Otherwise, fuck it. Anything else you're told about corporations is an outright lie IMO. It's all a means to an end, or else they aren't doing their job.

While this may be standard practice, I'm talking about ethics and morality, not legality. There are many things which are legal, but that still grossly violate ethics and morality.

Secondly, as you've stated it, such an idea of fiduciary duty would compel people to break the law to fulfill "fiduciary duty". It's an absurd notion that businesses should exist for the sole purpose of making as much money as possible, above and beyond all other interests. It's quite arguable that most businesses do pursue money to that absurd degree, but that's because most people have bought into the idea that such is the ideal form of business. Not only do I challenge that notion, but I firmly reject it, morally and ethically. It should never be accepted, it should never be repeated, and any suggestion that is is inevitable should be shouted down with all the fervor the human race can muster. We are not doomed to be thieves, and we cannot allow ourselves to resign ourselves to institutionalized greed.

Jun 7, 2019#36

Eriol

figmentPez said:
While this may be standard practice, I'm talking about ethics and morality, not legality. There are many things which are legal, but that still grossly violate ethics and morality.

Secondly, as you've stated it, such an idea of fiduciary duty would compel people to break the law to fulfill "fiduciary duty". It's an absurd notion that businesses should exist for the sole purpose of making as much money as possible, above and beyond all other interests. It's quite arguable that most businesses do pursue money to that absurd degree, but that's because most people have bought into the idea that such is the ideal form of business. Not only do I challenge that notion, but I firmly reject it, morally and ethically. It should never be accepted, it should never be repeated, and any suggestion that is is inevitable should be shouted down with all the fervor the human race can muster. We are not doomed to be thieves, and we cannot allow ourselves to resign ourselves to institutionalized greed.

Pez, there have been legal cases by shareholders that sue boards and/or CEOs because they don't take their Fiduciary Duty seriously. And they WIN. The law is structured that way. The law can't compel you to break the law (IANAL, but pretty sure that'd be stupid), but anything and everything else is A-OK to the limits of public reputation, and its impact on profits.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for this corporate attitude, I actually agree that businesses should be more than that. But that is the law as it is right now. Change the law if you want that to change, don't blame the people for following it.

Jun 7, 2019#37

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
If someone knowingly takes advantage of someone (i.e. They intentionally conduct what they know to be an unfair exchange of goods and or services), that's a scam. Scam: to swindle, cheat, defraud, to obtain by deceit. Put it however you want, if someone knows that they are unfairly taking advantage of someone else, they are a crook.

We're arguing semantics here (Scam/Fraud = obtain by deceit, Monopoly/Monopsony = obtain by abusing marketplace position, Regulatory capture = obtain by changing the rules, etc), but it seems we are in agreement that businesses should conduct themselves in a manner that prioritizes not only their own well-being, but also the well-being of the ones who use the goods and services they provide.

I mean, you figure it would just be good business sense to ensure the existence of a customer base to consume the goods and services you provide, right?
...with ONE exception, of course. That being, should it come to pass that a business' goods/services are no longer required, it should willingly go gently into that good night, and not seek to artificially prolong its existence/relevance.

--Patrick

Jun 7, 2019#38

@Li3n

Eriol said:
Change the law if you want that to change, don't blame the people for following it.

That's why i always reported the jews to the local authorities back in the '40s... it vas the law.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure i can do both...

Jun 7, 2019#39

Tinwhistler

Jun 7, 2019#40

figmentPez

Eriol said:
Pez, there have been legal cases by shareholders that sue boards and/or CEOs because they don't take their Fiduciary Duty seriously. And they WIN. The law is structured that way. The law can't compel you to break the law (IANAL, but pretty sure that'd be stupid), but anything and everything else is A-OK to the limits of public reputation, and its impact on profits.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for this corporate attitude, I actually agree that businesses should be more than that. But that is the law as it is right now. Change the law if you want that to change, don't blame the people for following it.

I will fucking blame people for following unjust laws. Doing what is morally and ethnically right comes before obedience to the law, PERIOD. I'll sympathize with people who are afraid to break the law because they're not in positions of power, but CEOs are in huge positions of power, and they have crazy amounts of money and influence. They have the moral and ethical responsibility to challenge the law and do what is right.

You've just admitted that there are higher responsibilities than how you interpret Fiduciary Duty (hell, that wikipedia article you linked says there are higher responsibilities). You've said the law comes before. You're not allowed to break the law. Breaking the law would surely make more money, and in fact a lot of companies knowingly break the law because the fines they pay are less than the money they make breaking the law. We know that a CEO could never be sued by refusing to commit wage theft, despite how lucrative such an action is.

To quote the Wiki you linked to, "far from being a barrier, there are positive duties to integrate environmental, social and governance (ESG) factors in investment processes." I'm not the only person who thinks that businesses have a responsibility to more than just money.

Jun 7, 2019#41

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
I mean, you figure it would just be good business sense to ensure the existence of a customer base to consume the goods and services you provide, right?

You'd think so, but "trickle down economics" is still a thing people fight to believe in. I try not to underestimate the number of people who are willfully ignorant, and the violent reactions they have to the truth being thrust upon them.

Jun 7, 2019#42

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
"trickle down economics" is still a thing people fight to believe in.

Well, they’re wrong.

—Patrick

Jun 10, 2019#43

@Li3n

Tinwhistler said:

It's funny because that in no way tells you anything about the reference being salient or not...

But do you think anyone would get it if i mentioned reporting people with glasses during the '70's...

Jun 10, 2019#44

sixpackshaker

@Li3n said:
It's funny because that in no way tells you anything about the reference being salient or not...

But do you think anyone would get it if i mentioned reporting people with glasses during the '70's...

But that was Pol Pot's law.

Sep 12, 2019#45

figmentPez

Sep 12, 2019#46

blotsfan

I regret that I have but one OMGWTFBBQ to give to that post.

Also...isn't having a handgun illegal in New York City? Maybe the one on the left was from a cop, but the one on the right doesn't look like it. I can't imagine you're allowed to take guns into the Pentagon either.

Sep 12, 2019#47

GasBandit

blotsfan said:
I regret that I have but one OMGWTFBBQ to give to that post.

Also...isn't having a handgun illegal in New York City? Maybe the one on the left was from a cop, but the one on the right doesn't look like it. I can't imagine you're allowed to take guns into the Pentagon either.

The one on the right looks to be a 38 snub nose, which is a common "backup piece" for law enforcement.

Sep 12, 2019#48

PatrThom

My biggest complaint about the picture is the caption, which praises these two objects and yet makes no (real) attempt to honor the individual(s) who must've wielded them.

--Patrick

Sep 13, 2019#49

figmentPez

Texas Lawmaker Issues Death Threat to Beto O’Rourke After Debate Pledge to Take Away Assault-Style Weapons

Sep 14, 2019#50

Bubble181

figmentPez said:
Texas Lawmaker Issues Death Threat to Beto O’Rourke After Debate Pledge to Take Away Assault-Style Weapons

He's just protecting his God-given right to arms against federal overreach. This is the problem: these people will not accept any limitation on gun ownership, and will always feel vindicated and justified in doing so.

Dec 12, 2019#51

figmentPez

Well, if this isn't a metaphor for the United States: Women admiring rifle in pawn shop fail to notice baby falling off counter

Dec 27, 2019#52

DarkAudit

"I just killed my family, and it's all thanks to you, NRA!"

Man thanks the NRA for giving him the means to kill his wife and pets.

Jan 1, 2020#53

figmentPez

Woman killed by celebratory gunfire identified as long-time nurse for Menninger Clinic

Menninger is where I was hospitalized and finally got my diagnosis of somatoform disorder. I don't remember Philippa Ashford, but it's entirely possible that she helped me at some point during my difficult first couple weeks in the diagnostic unit. Tell me, how is a "good guy with a gun" supposed to have prevented this death?

Jan 1, 2020#54

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
how is a "good guy with a gun" supposed to have prevented this death?

Well, a Good Guy With A Gun would have known better than to idiotically shoot randomly into the air in the first place.

--Patrick

Jan 1, 2020#55

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Well, a Good Guy With A Gun would have known better than to idiotically shoot randomly into the air in the first place.

--Patrick

Or, I guess, by shooting the idiots before they could kill somebody with their dumb shit.

Jan 2, 2020#56

jwhouk

Uh, that guy who shot the shooter? He was part of the church's security detail.

...which is sad to even say.

Jan 2, 2020#57

DarkAudit

jwhouk said:
Uh, that guy who shot the shooter? He was part of the church's security detail.

...which is sad to even say.

So Good Guy With A Gun let two people die on his watch.

Jan 2, 2020#58

Tinwhistler

DarkAudit said:
So Good Guy With A Gun let two people die on his watch.

Considering that he acted within 6 seconds, I think he did a pretty good job.

https://www.wfsb.com/within-seconds...cle_e6e76407-16b8-5840-a0d8-c4387258d13e.html

Jan 2, 2020#59

Bubble181

Tinwhistler said:
Considering that he acted within 6 seconds, I think he did a pretty good job.

https://www.wfsb.com/within-seconds...cle_e6e76407-16b8-5840-a0d8-c4387258d13e.html

So..."Even a Good Guy with a Gun who acts quickly and efficiently can't protect you"? Well, gosh, it's almost like simply no guns for either good or bad guys would've been a better idea

Jan 2, 2020#60

GasBandit

Bubble181 said:
So..."Even a Good Guy with a Gun who acts quickly and efficiently can't protect you"? Well, gosh, it's almost like simply no guns for either good or bad guys would've been a better idea

Well, break out the magic wands that will eliminate 393 million guns from private ownership, making sure that they get every last one that someone with criminal intent might hoard!

And then we can get ready to REALLY bend over and take it in the ass from President For Life Donald J Trump, since there will then be absolutely literally nothing at all to stop him from really turning the US into the fascist police state you guys quaintly think he already has.

Jan 2, 2020#61

Bubble181

GasBandit said:
Well, break out the magic wands that will eliminate 393 million guns from private ownership, making sure that they get every last one that someone with criminal intent might hoard!

And then we can get ready to REALLY bend over and take it in the ass from President For Life Donald J Trump, since there will then be absolutely literally nothing at all to stop him from really turning the US into the fascist police state you guys quaintly think he already has.

A) I did specifically say "would've" - that ship has long since sailed for the good ol' US of A.
B) Like President For Life Macron, Johnson, and others? Or in comparison to Turkey, where Erdogan *is* busily turning himself into a dictator for life, despite the Turks owning plenty of guns (third highest in Europe after Finland and Switzerland, per capita)?

Jan 2, 2020#62

DarkAudit

GasBandit said:
Well, break out the magic wands that will eliminate 393 million guns from private ownership, making sure that they get every last one that someone with criminal intent might hoard!

And then we can get ready to REALLY bend over and take it in the ass from President For Life Donald J Trump, since there will then be absolutely literally nothing at all to stop him from really turning the US into the fascist police state you guys quaintly think he already has.

Lest you forget, HE was the only president thus far to actually advocate for taking all yer gunz.

Jan 2, 2020#63

PatrThom

DarkAudit said:
Lest you forget, HE was the only president thus far to actually advocate for taking all yer gunz.

It was more like, “Take away all your guns unless you’re one of us, then it’s totally covfefe.”
But yeah, I ain’t gonna forget.

—Patrick

Jan 2, 2020#64

@Li3n

figmentPez said:
Tell me, how is a "good guy with a gun" supposed to have prevented this death?

By shooting people who discharge their guns for fun?!

That would certainly not lead to any issues.

GasBandit said:
And then we can get ready to REALLY bend over and take it in the ass from President For Life Donald J Trump, since there will then be absolutely literally nothing at all to stop him from really turning the US into the fascist police state you guys quaintly think he already has.

I really like the implication that the "2A people" would oppose those actions.

Jan 2, 2020#65

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
I really like the implication that the "2A people" would oppose those actions.

Well, I mean, guns don't have to just be for rednecks. Nothing's stopping all the hippies and commies from getting all the AR-15s they want... for now.

Jan 2, 2020#66

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Well, I mean, guns don't have to just be for rednecks. Nothing's stopping all the hippies and commies from getting all the AR-15s they want... for now.

I feel like there’s an editorial cartoon in there, with a Hippie-type in a checkout lane complaining about “...all these ‘Gun-grabbers,’” and then behind him and in the other lanes waiting their turns are a bunch of Redneck and Jarhead types with their (red baseball caps and) carts bristling with long guns and ammunition.

—Patrick

Jan 2, 2020#67

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
Well, I mean, guns don't have to just be for rednecks. Nothing's stopping all the hippies and commies from getting all the AR-15s they want... for now.

Well, when that dickhead in Washington said NeoNazis are good people, I bought an AR-15.

Jan 2, 2020#68

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Well, I mean, guns don't have to just be for rednecks. Nothing's stopping all the hippies and commies from getting all the AR-15s they want... for now.

As long as they're not black, amirite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

That's how i know Dems aren't serious about effective gun control, if they where they'd just have some black and latino people (and hippies and commies) do armed protests, and they'd get bipartisan gun control laws passed no problemo..

Jan 2, 2020#69

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
As long as they're not black, amirite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Nothing California does should ever be mistaken for constitutional.

Jan 3, 2020#70

Tress

GasBandit said:
Nothing California does should ever be mistaken for constitutional.

As a Californian, I...

Jan 16, 2020#71

figmentPez

Virginia Declares State of Emergency After Armed Militias Threaten to Storm the Capitol

"In response to what he described as 'credible intelligence' of threats of violence at an upcoming gun rights rally in Richmond, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency and will temporarily ban individuals from carrying firearms on Capitol grounds.

"The governor said at a press conference Wednesday that authorities believe 'armed militia groups plan to storm the Capitol' during the January 20 rally.
...
"What’s more, armed militia groups are also planning to attend, and some have even described the event as a 'boogaloo' — a term that the far right uses to describe a second civil war."

In other words, terrorists have threatened to take control of the government of the state of Virginia, and we're not calling it terrorism, or a coup, because they're white.

Jan 16, 2020#72

GasBandit

Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.

Jan 16, 2020#73

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
In other words, terrorists have threatened to take control of the government of the state of Virginia, and we're not calling it terrorism, or a coup, because they're white.

“Extremists.”

—Patrick

Jan 16, 2020#74

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.

If I thought their motives were based around the good of the nation, and not the cause of racism, I might agree with you, but no. The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to allow a political minority with a morally abhorrent goal to take over the government. Make no mistake, if this group takes over the government in Virginia, they're not doing it in order to keep their guns. They're doing it to promote a white supremacist government.

Jan 16, 2020#75

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.

figmentPez said:
The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to allow a political minority with a morally abhorrent goal to take over the government. Make no mistake, if this group takes over the government in Virginia, they're not doing it in order to keep their guns. They're doing it to promote a white supremacist government.

This would not be the first time this group has used the letter of a law to subvert the spirit of a(mother) law.

—Patrick

Jan 16, 2020#76

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment.

I don't think the "security of the free state" was ever meant to mean using guns to overthrow a duly elected governing body.

Jan 16, 2020#77

GasBandit

figmentPez said:
If I thought their motives were based around the good of the nation, and not the cause of racism, I might agree with you, but no. The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to allow a political minority with a morally abhorrent goal to take over the government. Make no mistake, if this group takes over the government in Virginia, they're not doing it in order to keep their guns. They're doing it to promote a white supremacist government.

@Li3n said:
I don't think the "security of the free state" was ever meant to mean using guns to overthrow a duly elected governing body.

The motives are not specified, only the methodry.

Jan 16, 2020#78

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
The motives are not specified, only the methodry.

Hint: it's not a "free state" if you're military coup-ing elected officials.

Then again, a lack of understanding obvious nuance is why the FF didn't want to give the masses the right to vote, innit.

Jan 16, 2020#79

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Hint: it's not a "free state" if you're military coup-ing elected officials.

Then again, a lack of understanding obvious nuance is why the FF didn't want to give the masses the right to vote, innit.

Hint: It very much can be.

IE, Trump was elected. But if a thousand armed rabble stormed the white house... might could be said to be in the interests of a free state, yes?

I don't need to remind you what other monsters of history were "elected."

Jan 16, 2020#80

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
The motives are not specified, only the methodry.

Bullshit they aren't. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That's the fucking motivation right there, and white supremacy shits on all of that.

Jan 16, 2020#81

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
IE, Trump was elected. But if a thousand armed rabble stormed the white house... might could be said to be in the interests of a free state, yes?

No, it wouldn't.

There's already a system in place for that, and it failing to do it's job isn't because Trump got elected, it's because they've been shitting on it for decades.

If he actually refuses to abide by the rules and leaves when he's supposed to, then you can storm his ass, but otherwise that's a really bad idea for a democracy, even if he's being a terrible leader. While ousting him by force and leaving the people who shielded him from the legal consequences is just pointless.

GasBandit said:
I don't need to remind you what other monsters of history were "elected."

Heh, even you know to put it in quotes when it pretty much ruins your argument...

I did miss to repeat "duly" in the 2nd post, but it was supposed to be implied.

Jan 16, 2020#82

GasBandit

figmentPez said:
Bullshit they aren't. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That's the fucking motivation right there, and white supremacy shits on all of that.

You're overemotional, as you do tend to get in this sort of discussion.

The second amendment is there to keep the government afraid of the people. Be those people virtuous, or shitty. The ultimate effect of representative democracy is we end up with the government we deserve... and that goes for the results of putting amendments into practice as well.

@Li3n said:
No, it wouldn't.

There's already a system in place for that, and it failing to do it's job isn't because Trump got elected, it's because they've been shitting on it for decades.

So if you'd stop splitting hairs for a moment, you'd see you just admitted that when the system fails, the 2nd amendment is there to hit the reset button.

As I said, the reason it's a crime this time and not a revolution is merely a matter of numbers. Or to put it less cynically, because the white supremacists are still outnumbered by good people by a lot.

Jan 16, 2020#83

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
You're overemotional, as you do tend to get in this sort of discussion.

The second amendment is there to keep the government afraid of the people. Be those people virtuous, or shitty. The ultimate effect of representative democracy is we end up with the government we deserve... and that goes for the results of putting amendments into practice as well.

But the second amendment is NOT there for terrorist groups to take over the government and institute a rule that is counter to the goals of the constitution. The constiution is not designed to allow fascist groups to take over. The second amendment very much cares if the people are virtuous or shitty. That's why you're allowed to ban felons from owning weapons. That's why you're allowed to arrest people for planning terrorist acts. That's why laws against treason exist. No matter how right you are that the government is supposed to be afraid of the people, the constitution also exists to keep people safe. "To promote domestic tranquilty." Vesting power in known bad actors is not domestic tranquility, and promoting the idea that a terrorist coup is "exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment" is not domestic tranquility. The purpose of the second amendment is not to allow petty thugs to take over and plot genocide against anyone with different colored skin.

Jan 17, 2020#84

Bubble181

figmentPez said:
But the second amendment is NOT there for terrorist groups to take over the government and institute a rule that is counter to the goals of the constitution. The constiution is not designed to allow fascist groups to take over. The second amendment very much cares if the people are virtuous or shitty. That's why you're allowed to ban felons from owning weapons. That's why you're allowed to arrest people for planning terrorist acts. That's why laws against treason exist. No matter how right you are that the government is supposed to be afraid of the people, the constitution also exists to keep people safe. "To promote domestic tranquilty." Vesting power in known bad actors is not domestic tranquility, and promoting the idea that a terrorist coup is "exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment" is not domestic tranquility. The purpose of the second amendment is not to allow petty thugs to take over and plot genocide against anyone with different colored skin.

If they were brown and shouting "Allahu Akbar" while storming the capitol, they'd be mowed down in seconds. If they're white and doing it For the Good of the People, it's "the intent of the constitution, only considered a crime because they don't have enough support".

Yes, if Trump tries to stop the elections or refuses to acknowledge a defeat, that'll be the moment to claim the 2nd Amendment. If it's against elected officials, it's not the intent and trying to interpret it that way just because it messes with the poor libtard snowflakes is being disingenious.

Jan 17, 2020#85

DarkAudit

It's not the "2nd Amendment in action," it's a bunch of fucking nazis.

Jan 17, 2020#86

PatrThom

Could they have chosen a more poster-y poster child for "White Supremacist?"

--Patrick

Jan 17, 2020#87

blotsfan

Gas when the idea of shooting down right wingers is brought up.

GasBandit said:
The second amendment isn't something to be used just when you don't like a president's policies - policies that are discarded simply when someone else gets elected.

Gas when the idea of shooting left wingers is brought up.

GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.

Jan 17, 2020#88

PatrThom

...those two aren’t exclusive.

—Patrick

Jan 17, 2020#89

blotsfan

Just pointing out that in one case he thinks the motivations are bad and in the other they aren't.

Jan 17, 2020#90

PatrThom

To me, the second does not sound like an endorsement, it just sounds like a rephrasing of “History is written by the victors.” That is, if the white supremacists were to take over, the history books would praise it as “The day we took back what was rightfully ours” as opposed to calling it “The crime that put us back in charge again.”

—Patrick

Jan 17, 2020#91

blotsfan

Yeah and killing every republican can be the day democracy was saved in America. But he didn't seem to want to think of it as that.

Jan 17, 2020#92

GasBandit

blotsfan said:
Just pointing out that in one case he thinks the motivations are bad and in the other they aren't.

I didn't say the motivations weren't bad. In fact I specifically said the motivations WERE bad.

But never you mind, I'll let you guys get back to your "GUNS ARE BAAAAAAD" circlejerk.

Jan 18, 2020#93

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
So if you'd stop splitting hairs for a moment, you'd see you just admitted that when the system fails, the 2nd amendment is there to hit the reset button.

Nah, it's totally there for hunting, self defence and shooting them in the air for fun.

As per that quote @blotsfan quoted, you do clearly understand, when it suits you, that disagreeing with the policies of a duly elected government isn't the type of "failure" we're talking about.

GasBandit said:
As I said, the reason it's a crime this time and not a revolution is merely a matter of numbers. Or to put it less cynically, because the white supremacists are still outnumbered by good people by a lot.

Yeah dude, but that's true of everything.

Violently sodomizing people against their will is only a crime because the rapists are "outnumbered by good people by a lot".

We where talking about the situation as it relates to the 2nd amendment, and i'm pretty sure the FF did not intend it to be used to, lets say, bring back monarchy and taxation without representation. Which should be obvious.

Jan 28, 2020#94

DarkAudit

Howzabout we lighten the mood a bit...

Jan 28, 2020#95

Bubble181

Funny 'cause it's true. In some parts, anyway.

Jan 30, 2020#96

DarkAudit

The WV House of Delegates rejected a bill to limit the school calendar. One of the opponents was... the NRA?

Because WV students typically get time off for the start of deer season.

Jan 30, 2020#97

blotsfan

As much as the NRA sucks, if they're getting their 180 days regardless, does it really matter if they get 3 extra days off for deer season?

Jan 31, 2020#98

Dei

I mean, have you seen Arizona's school schedule? I think that's the weirdest one I've seen.

Jan 31, 2020#99

jwhouk

Hey now. Two months off is plenty for these children.

Feb 1, 2020#100

figmentPez

Feb 1, 2020#101

PatrThom

They are just looking for HIDDEN guns. Publicly visible ones must be ok.

—Patrick

Feb 1, 2020#102

DarkAudit

Quick reminder that the creature who killed the Constitution is the POTUS who actually *said* he'd take your guns. Say goodbye to your precious 2nd amendment. It's as irrelevant as the rest of it now.

Feb 2, 2020#103

Frank

figmentPez said:

Robert Evans of Behind the Bastards Podcast

Feb 2, 2020#104

@Li3n

To be fair, unless there where pregnant women in the building, your guns could only kill already born people, and they're clearly not as important as a fetus?

Feb 2, 2020#105

mikerc

Frank said:
Robert Evans of Behind the Bastards Podcast

What...what possible danger could his female friends have caused with tampons that they needed to be confiscated?

Feb 2, 2020#106

Krisken

mikerc said:
What...what possible danger could his female friends have caused with tampons that they needed to be confiscated?

It's a threat to their masculinity.

Feb 2, 2020#107

figmentPez

mikerc said:
What...what possible danger could his female friends have caused with tampons that they needed to be confiscated?

They could be used to forcibly remind men that women exist for non-sexual purposes. This would be a very embarrassing thing for the major sources of ~~bribes~~ political contributions.

Feb 2, 2020#108

Tinwhistler

Tampons Confiscated, Guns Allowed as Texas Senate Debates Abortion

State troopers confiscated tampons and maxi pads from people entering the Texas Senate gallery on Friday afternoon as senators began debating a controversial new abortion regulations that are almost certain to pass.

www.theatlantic.com

Non-twitter news source.

State troopers said they were taking anything that could be thrown at legislators, which included tampons, maxi pads, sugar packets, and condoms.

Feb 2, 2020#109

PatrThom

...but no milkshakes?

--Patrick

Feb 3, 2020#110

Bubble181

Tinwhistler said:
Tampons Confiscated, Guns Allowed as Texas Senate Debates Abortion

State troopers confiscated tampons and maxi pads from people entering the Texas Senate gallery on Friday afternoon as senators began debating a controversial new abortion regulations that are almost certain to pass.

www.theatlantic.com

Non-twitter news source.

I'm pretty sure you can throw a gun at a legislator, too.

Feb 3, 2020#111

Tinwhistler

Bubble181 said:
I'm pretty sure you can throw a gun at a legislator, too.

Evidently, the last time Texas tried to pass this legislation, people in the gallery disrupted the proceedings by throwing pads and the like. I don't imagine anyone threw guns the first time

Feb 3, 2020#112

GasBandit

Guns are expensive! Feminine hygiene products are cheaper. Hell, cheaper than many varieties of ammo.

Feb 3, 2020#113

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
I'm pretty sure you can throw a gun at a legislator, too.

Traditionally, you wait to throw your gun at someone until after you have expended all your ammunition.

—Patrick

May 9, 2020#114

figmentPez

May 9, 2020#115

Krisken

That fucking idiot has a bazooka. Go home, moron, you are drunk.

May 9, 2020#116

PatrThom

I was under the impression those were classed as WoMD and not "firearms." If so, that could maybe mean a trip downtown for some potentially intense 'splaining.

--Patrick

May 10, 2020#117

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
I was under the impression those were classed as WoMD and not "firearms." If so, that's could maybe mean a trip downtown for some potentially intense 'splaining.

--Patrick

It is not illegal to own a bazooka (or an RPG for that matter) but you pay very hefty transfer taxes on them and the ammunition.

May 10, 2020#118

DarkAudit

These dudes' *other* piece must be microscopic.

May 13, 2020#119

Dave

GasBandit said:
It is not illegal to own a bazooka (or an RPG for that matter) but you pay very hefty transfer taxes on them and the ammunition.

This is stupid for several reasons. First, it's a single shot weapon so ammunition costs is not a thing. Second, the one he's wearing has already been fired so it's nothing more than an inert tube. Third, this proves it's not about exercising his rights to anything is is more for intimidation than anything.

Big fucking surprise.

May 13, 2020#120

blotsfan

I kinda want to see someone fire a single shot into one of those protests so we can see how incredibly inept those people are with their guns in a crisis situation.

May 13, 2020#121

PatrThom

I don't. That might end up like those cartoons where the guy goes, "Hey, it's really dark in here," and then lights a match only to discover he's in a shed full of gunpowder and dynamite.

--Patrick

May 13, 2020#122

Dave

As long as they only shoot each other I'm totally fine with this.

May 13, 2020#123

GasBandit

Dave said:
This is stupid for several reasons. First, it's a single shot weapon so ammunition costs is not a thing. Second, the one he's wearing has already been fired so it's nothing more than an inert tube. Third, this proves it's not about exercising his rights to anything is is more for intimidation than anything.

Big fucking surprise.

Ammo isn't a thing for a single shot LAW, sure, but it is for other recoilless rifles and RPGs. Last I looked into it, the transfer fee (tax) on purchasing such things was a flat $200 a pop. As in, per round.

May 13, 2020#124

Dave

GasBandit said:
Ammo isn't a thing for a single shot LAW, sure, but it is for other recoilless rifles and RPGs. Last I looked into it, the transfer fee (tax) on purchasing such things was a flat $200 a pop. As in, per round.

As it should be. Actually it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be available to fucking civilians. But in the case of the picture in question, your point was not right. For other weapons of the same type, yes, but not the subject at hand.

May 13, 2020#125

GasBandit

Dave said:
As it should be. Actually it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be available to fucking civilians. But in the case of the picture in question, your point was not right. For other weapons of the same type, yes, but not the subject at hand.

Yeah, my post was a little nebulous I guess, because I expanded it ("This is not illegal to own, and neither are other things like it"). So yeah, this guy is a chuuni dumbass for hauling around an empty tube on his back to look intimidating. But it's not illegal.

I disagree about what should be available to civilians, but you know that, and I know you know that, and we both know there's not much point in hashing it all out again.

May 22, 2020#126

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
I disagree about what should be available to civilians, but you know that, and I know you know that, and we both know there's not much point in hashing it all out again.

It's not real freedom until i can own my own nuke, and y'all know it...

May 22, 2020#127

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
It's not real freedom until i can own my own nuke, and y'all know it...

There's actually no law preventing private ownership of nuclear weapons.

Just a whole lot of restrictions on the fissile material it takes to make them.

May 23, 2020#128

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Just a whole lot of restrictions on the fissile material it takes to make them.

Does any country have laws that say you can't build your own nuke?

May 23, 2020#129

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Does any country have laws that say you can't build your own nuke?

You know, I'm not sure, actually.

May 23, 2020#130

Bubble181

Owning any type of weapon of mass destruction is illegal worldwide, both for states and for individuals, with some specific exceptions, such as small batches of smallpox for research purposes etc.
So, yes, it's very much illegal to own a nuke, even if you build it yourself.

May 23, 2020#131

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
You know, I'm not sure, actually.

Might want to check Sealand.

Also discovered this yesterday:

Yes, you're looking at a 2-shot 12ga top-break pistol that you can buy for about $500 and have mailed to your door.
But it's okay! It's legal because it's a black powder pistol, which means it is considered part of the musket family. Just a veeeery short one.
The reviewer suggests that it is good for close-range use only, but not exactly suited for things like suprise duck hunting. Penetration is lackluster, and maintenance/loading are a chore.
Sooooo it looks intimidating, but it's really not very effective for defense...and should appeal to the people who fit that exact description.

--Patrick

May 23, 2020#132

GasBandit

Bubble181 said:
Owning any type of weapon of mass destruction is illegal worldwide, both for states and for individuals, with some specific exceptions, such as small batches of smallpox for research purposes etc.
So, yes, it's very much illegal to own a nuke, even if you build it yourself.

Gonna need a citation on that. WMD is a treaty thing, not a law enforcement thing, from what I've read. At least in the US.

May 23, 2020#133

Ravenpoe

PatrThom said:
Might want to check Sealand.

Also discovered this yesterday:

View attachment 34013

Yes, you're looking at a 2-shot 12ga top-break pistol that you can buy for about $500 and have mailed to your door.
But it's okay! It's legal because it's a black powder pistol, which means it is considered part of the musket family.
The reviewer suggests that it is good for close-range use only, but not exactly suited for things like suprise duck hunting. Penetration is lackluster, and maintenance/loading are a chore.
Sooooo it looks intimidating, but it's really not very effective for defense...and should appeal to the people who fit that exact description.

--Patrick

It's been done before. Both in movies:

And real life

May 23, 2020#134

PatrThom

Ravenpoe said:
It's been done before.

Right, but those are considered to be "sawed-off shotguns" and therefore subject to restrictions similar to those imposed on machine guns--extra tax, registration, documentation of transfer, etc. The Diablo is no doubt marketed to people who do not wish to be burdened with such things.

--Patrick

May 23, 2020#135

mikerc

GasBandit said:
Gonna need a citation on that. WMD is a treaty thing, not a law enforcement thing, from what I've read. At least in the US.

Maybe not illegal to own but certainly illegal to use, threaten, or attempt or conspire to use a WMD. Although - from a purely theoretical POV - it might be interesting to see someone defend themselves from being charged with threatening to use a nuke by claiming 1st Amendment rights.

I suspect that if someone did own, or was attempting to build, their own WMD in the US that the US Gov would treat the mere possession of said WMD as an attempt to use it & charge them appropriately. I further suspect that such a person would almost certainly be "killed resisting arrest", regardless of how much they actually resisted.

May 23, 2020#136

Ravenpoe

mikerc said:
Maybe not illegal to own but certainly illegal to use, threaten, or attempt or conspire to use a WMD. Although - from a purely theoretical POV - it might be interesting to see someone defend themselves from being charged with threatening to use a nuke by claiming 1st Amendment rights.

I suspect that if someone did own, or was attempting to build, their own WMD in the US that the US Gov would treat the mere possession of said WMD as an attempt to use it & charge them appropriately. I further suspect that such a person would almost certainly be "killed resisting arrest", regardless of how much they actually resisted.

I'm pretty sure this was a plot in metal gear

May 23, 2020#137

figmentPez

GasBandit said:
Gonna need a citation on that. WMD is a treaty thing, not a law enforcement thing, from what I've read. At least in the US.

"Oh no! We didn't violate the treaty. You see, that bomb belongs to one of our citizens. The government of our honorable country bears no responsibility for what a citizen owns."

May 23, 2020#138

PatrThom

mikerc said:
the US Gov would treat the mere possession of said WMD as an attempt to use it & charge them appropriately.

Even if they were a Boy Scout?

--Patrick

May 23, 2020#139

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
"Oh no! We didn't violate the treaty. You see, that bomb belongs to one of our citizens. The government of our honorable country bears no responsibility for what a citizen owns."

Governments are bound by treaties. Citizens are bound by laws. I'm assuming that this is what Gas is referring to.

That said:
https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2009&context=facpub
"In the United States, treaties also have the status of law in the domestic legal system. The Supremacy Clause declares treaties to be the "supreme Law of the Land" and instructs the courts to give them effect."

Article VI can be read in full here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlevi but I'll quote the relevant clause

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

May 23, 2020#140

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
Governments are bound by treaties. Citizens are bound by laws. I'm assuming that this is what Gas is referring to.

Yes, and if governments are bound by treaties, then they must enforce them, and I don't see how anyone would buy the "I'm not responsible for the WMDs my citizens own, that I was fully aware of, and intentionally gave them the right to possess."

May 23, 2020#141

Tinwhistler

sorry, was fully fleshing out the idea...I've made adjustments.

May 23, 2020#142

figmentPez

Okay, that maybe covers the US, but what about some hypothetical other country bound to this treaty. Do you think the US would consider it honoring the treaty if any other signatory allowed private citizens to own WMDs?

May 23, 2020#143

Tinwhistler

Now, notwithstanding my post above, that the constitution gives full weight of law to international treaties, the US government hasn't really taken that view in modern times, and the supreme court has opined in the past that treaties "in its nature, a contract between two nations, not a legislative act."

Some interesting reads:

Defining and Punishing Offenses Under Treaties

One of the principal aims of the U.S. Constitution was to give the federal government authority to comply with its international legal commitments. The scope of Congress’s constitutional authority to implement treaties has recently received particular attention. In Bond v. United States, the...

www.yalelawjournal.org

treaties-as-law-of-the-land

www.law.cornell.edu

May 23, 2020#144

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Even if they were a Boy Scout?

--Patrick

Dangit, I was gonna point that out, heh.

A boy scout DID make a radiological device, though he was trying to make a reactor, not a bomb. They did take away his fissile material (and everything it had gotten close to, including his mom's back yard's soil).

But he did make eagle scout!

May 23, 2020#145

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
But he did make eagle scout!

And died at age 39, his mother committed suicide, etc.
Fun fact: at the time he was doing these shenanigans, I was living about 10mi from there.

--Patrick

May 26, 2020#146

@Li3n

Bubble181 said:
Owning any type of weapon of mass destruction is illegal worldwide, both for states and for individuals, with some specific exceptions, such as small batches of smallpox for research purposes etc.
So, yes, it's very much illegal to own a nuke, even if you build it yourself.

I was actually asking in the context of Gas pointing out that it's not the device that's illegal, it's it's "ammunition"... aka the radioactive stuff.

Kind of like making gunpowder illegal, but letting you own as many guns as you want.

Do countries actually have laws against owning the mechanical parts of a nuke, or are al of them counting on the fact that the dangerous radioactive stuff is already banned?

May 31, 2020#147

figmentPez

May 31, 2020#148

drifter

Oh, that's the guy whose livestream went viral because his mom tossed him out of the house instead of letting him use it as a base of operations. Also the guy whose buddy got arrested with pipe bombs :/

Jul 11, 2020#149

Gared

So... gun tangential question. For bulletproof vests, should I be looking at the ones like law enforcement wear in TV shows, or plate carriers?

Jul 12, 2020#150

PatrThom

If you're actively contemplating the purchase of body armor, then I'm of the opinion you need to evaluate your current situation and whether staying in it is still worthwhile.

That said, isn't the plated stuff more to stop AP munitions? And part of the reason for its design is that once a plate has soaked up an impact, it will need to be replaced with a fresh one. A vest offering "ballistic" protection is designed to catch expanding (i.e., lead) projectiles carrying high kinetic energy BUT you can't automatically assume it will be effective in a stabby knife fight unless it explicitly says so.

It's a lot like buying a case for your phone. Some cases protect better against impact, intrusion, liquid, infiltration, etc. But unless you know ahead of time exactly which one you're going to need, there's always the chance you're going to end up bringing a ballistic vest to a knife fight.

--Patrick

Jul 12, 2020#151

Gared

PatrThom said:
If you're actively contemplating the purchase of body armor, then I'm of the opinion you need to evaluate your current situation and whether staying in it is still worthwhile.

That said, isn't the plated stuff more to stop AP munitions? And part of the reason for its design is that once a plate has soaked up an impact, it will need to be replaced with a fresh one. A vest offering "ballistic" protection is designed to catch expanding (i.e., lead) projectiles carrying high kinetic energy BUT you can't automatically assume it will be effective in a stabby knife fight unless it explicitly says so.

It's a lot like buying a case for your phone. Some cases protect better against impact, intrusion, liquid, infiltration, etc. But unless you know ahead of time exactly which one you're going to need, there's always the chance you're going to end up bringing a ballistic vest to a knife fight.

--Patrick

Mostly I'm after protection from impact munitions. The feds are not yet using live rounds and I hope to hell they don't get to that point, but the chances are good that eventually I'm going to find my way to the front line of somebody's protest, and someone's going to put out a call for the white shield, and I'm going to wind up where I belong - on the line between the black protesters and the feds. So far we have half-face ventilators with exchangeable cartridges, padded and slightly cut-resistant mechanics gloves, OTG impact resistant goggles, silicone ear plugs, and knee pads. Originally, I was just going to go with bike armor like you see the X-games athletes wearing, but the cops have rapidly changed from batons to impact munitions, so that's probably not going to provide enough protection.

Jul 12, 2020#152

Denbrought

Gared said:
So... gun tangential question. For bulletproof vests, should I be looking at the ones like law enforcement wear in TV shows, or plate carriers?

Are you trying to conceal carry the body armor? Plate carriers (and plates) are harder to hide AFAIK. However, they're also way more versatile, since you can upgrade/add plates piecemeal to fit your needs. A ballistic backpack (i.e. one you can fit a plate inside of to use as a shield/chest protection) is another concealable possibility.

PatrThom said:
That said, isn't the plated stuff more to stop AP munitions? And part of the reason for its design is that once a plate has soaked up an impact, it will need to be replaced with a fresh one. A vest offering "ballistic" protection is designed to catch expanding (i.e., lead) projectiles carrying high kinetic energy BUT you can't automatically assume it will be effective in a stabby knife fight unless it explicitly says so.

Very dependent on the type of plate. Soft and hybrid plates are very much a thing.

Jul 12, 2020#153

Gared

Denbrought said:
Are you trying to conceal carry the body armor? Plate carriers (and plates) are harder to hide AFAIK. However, they're also way more versatile, since you can upgrade/add plates piecemeal to fit your needs. A ballistic backpack (i.e. one you can fit a plate inside of to use as a shield/chest protection) is another concealable possibility.

Very dependent on the type of plate. Soft and hybrid plates are very much a thing.

Nah, not much concern for hiding the armor. No one seems to care if you're wearing body armor to a protest, as long as you hold your phone in the air while doing so.

Jul 12, 2020#154

PatrThom

Denbrought said:
Soft and hybrid plates are very much a thing.

And they're doing wonderful things with non-newtonian solids these days.
Fortunately, I am not in a position where I need to do much comparison shopping.

--Patrick

Jul 12, 2020#155

Gared

PatrThom said:
And they're doing wonderful things with non-newtonian solids these days.
Fortunately, I am not in a position where I need to do much comparison shopping.

--Patrick

I'm sure this is something I really don't need to be concerned with. But it's a fun little mental exercise and it could come in handy at some point in time. But no, I don't live anywhere that I even feel the need for more than my mask, a pair of basketball shorts, and sandals to be out on the streets. Maybe a hat, if the sun's out. Don't want to get skin cancer. This is more for if I just happen to be visiting my sister in law in Portland while this is all still going on.

Jul 12, 2020#156

Denbrought

Gared said:
Mostly I'm after protection from impact munitions. The feds are not yet using live rounds and I hope to hell they don't get to that point, but the chances are good that eventually I'm going to find my way to the front line of somebody's protest, and someone's going to put out a call for the white shield, and I'm going to wind up where I belong - on the line between the black protesters and the feds. So far we have half-face ventilators with exchangeable cartridges, padded and slightly cut-resistant mechanics gloves, OTG impact resistant goggles, silicone ear plugs, and knee pads. Originally, I was just going to go with bike armor like you see the X-games athletes wearing, but the cops have rapidly changed from batons to impact munitions, so that's probably not going to provide enough protection.

Don't think that's the sort of protection you want, then--or, if it is, it's way overpriced. You'd want the sort of body armor that's meant to (just) absorb blunt trauma, not dissipate piercing projectiles.

Might want to look into making a shield... Aircraft aluminum, recycled street signs, or any other sturdy and semi-light metal works well. There's plenty of guides online by SCA folk. Ditto for the rest of your body--rigid bike gear would be my next go-to if I couldn't just have rigid SCA armor. Pretty price-effective vs. blunt trauma, and there's fairly concealable and affordable gear these days, both for sale and as plans to DIY from various materials/tools.

Jul 12, 2020#157

PatrThom

Denbrought said:
You'd want the sort of body armor that's meant to (just) absorb blunt trauma, not dissipate piercing projectiles.

And this could be something as simple as coiling bike lock cable into a space-filling curve over the surface of a moving blanket that you've basically cut into a chasuble to wear under a jacket, or attaching a couple short lengths of rebar or conduit with heavy-duty duct tape to a pad made of cork board to wear on a forearm or thigh. It's really not that hard to improvise effective blunt-force armor from items commonly found at a hardware store.

--Patrick

Jul 12, 2020#158

Gared

So, here's some of the stuff we're looking at having shot at us by federal officers and cops in our state.

Impact munition fired through 1/2" thick wooden shield. Reportedly from an FN303.
40mm Foam "baton" rounds.
Stinger grenades.
CS tear gas canisters that expired in 2012.
Triple Chaser Grenades.
40mm Skat Shells.
Some new type of tear gas canister that lands, explodes, then pops additional canisters from the top and sides so that it can't be contained easily, like with a traffic cone, a la Hong Kong.

I don't think coiling some bike lock cable in a blanket is going to cut it.

Jul 12, 2020#159

jwhouk

Has anyone ever considered, y'know, maybe, just disengaging for a week or so? Let the cops and other authorities kill themselves instead of protesters?

Jul 12, 2020#160

Gared

jwhouk said:
Has anyone ever considered, y'know, maybe, just disengaging for a week or so? Let the cops and other authorities kill themselves instead of protesters?

Every day we will march until change happens. No meaningful change has happened in Portland. So, no. Also, the feds and the local cops are working together, they're not fighting against each other.

Jul 12, 2020#161

PatrThom

Gared said:
I don't think coiling some bike lock cable in a blanket is going to cut it.

I liked it better when you thought baton beatings was the worst you would have to weather.

--Patrick

Jul 12, 2020#162

Gared

PatrThom said:
I liked it better when you thought baton beatings was the worst you would have to weather.

--Patrick

Me too. Pickle barrel armor is easy enough to make that every half-decent SCAdian fighter should have a set. Wooden shields from plywood with plastic or leather wrapping for the edges? Also pretty easy. Impact munitions though, those are something else. Also, apparently when CS gas breaks down due to age it breaks down into even more lethal gasses, phosgene, and other VOCs, so using 16 year old gas with a shelf life of 4 years on your own populace? Nasty.

Jul 15, 2020#163

AshburnerX

I'll say this: going in with a shield will make you a target for a quick takedown. As in, expect the cops to rush you if things go bad and to end up in the hospital as a result of it.

Hong Kong taught us a lot about modern protesting. What are you doing for head protection? Construction helmets work well, but again make you a target. They've actually started making ball caps with protective plates in them for protest use.

Jul 15, 2020#164

Gared

AshburnerX said:
I'll say this: going in with a shield will make you a target for a quick takedown. As in, expect the cops to rush you if things go bad and to end up in the hospital as a result of it.

Hong Kong taught us a lot about modern protesting. What are you doing for head protection? Construction helmets work well, but again make you a target. They've actually started making ball caps with protective plates in them for protest use.

Things changed this morning. This is no longer just a protest. The Federal Agents have stepped up their tactics to literally kidnapping people off the streets, throwing them in unmarked civilian rental-vans, and disappearing into the pre-dawn darkness while throwing pipe-bomb looking devices out of the doors. They're preparing to sweep the park across from the federal building, and the snipers on the roof have been carrying live ammo for days now. Despite demands from the Mayor, the Governor, our Senators, and our Congressional Reps, the feds refuse to leave. In addition, the federal government is threatening to step up their involvement by sending elite CBP agents to all sanctuary cities. This is no longer a protest. This is an invasion.

For head protection, we're going to go with the helmets that press and international observers wear into war zones. For armor, we're going to be going with plate carriers and level 4 plates, because that's what the medics are wearing. For eye protection, we have over-the-glasses impact-rated Honeywell safety goggles, and we have half-face respirators with OV cartridges. Add in knee and elbow pads, padded and cut-resistant mechanics gloves, steel-toed work boots, and moto-X lower-body armor, with additional improvised protection for fore-arms and potentially neck/throat coverage as well. Everybody has shields. There's a shield builder that made 36 of them yesterday alone. They're actually considering painting big letters on them and playing scrabble with them, and seeing if breaking the official rules will constitute a riot. For right now, since we're hours away from Portland and raising a new hatch of ducklings and can't leave for long periods of time, we're only openly monetarily supporting the civilian response to this invasion; but once we can travel, we'll likely be in the streets, on the line - and depending upon how badly things have gone by then, may be open carrying as well.

Jul 16, 2020#165

PatrThom

Almost 40% of all guns sold over the last few months (in the USA) were to first-time buyers.

--Patrick

Jul 16, 2020#166

Gared

PatrThom said:
Almost 40% of all guns sold over the last few months (in the USA) were to first-time buyers.

--Patrick

With that in mind, is Ruger a reputable maker of 22LR semi-auto rifles? Cabela's has a great sale on them right now; $230 for a semi-auto, but I'd have to buy a sight for it. Also, how difficult is it to install a gun sight accurately?

Jul 16, 2020#167

GasBandit

Gared said:
With that in mind, is Ruger a reputable maker of 22LR semi-auto rifles? Cabela's has a great sale on them right now; $230 for a semi-auto, but I'd have to buy a sight for it. Also, how difficult is it to install a gun sight accurately?

I love my Ruger pistols. I haven't tried any of their rifles, however. Dialing in a scope isn't too hard. You'll just need some sandbags or something similar like that to rest the gun on and aim at a target downrange, try to make sure the gun doesn't move, aim the crosshairs at the middle of the target and fire 5 to 10 rounds. then move the crosshairs to the center of the grouping of where the bullets actually hit. The adjustment is usually made by a couple of Allen screws.

Jul 16, 2020#168

Gared

GasBandit said:
I love my Ruger pistols. I haven't tried any of their rifles, however. Dialing in a scope isn't too hard. You'll just need some sandbags or something similar like that to rest the gun on and aim at a target downrange, try to make sure the gun doesn't move, aim the crosshairs at the middle of the target and fire 5 to 10 rounds. then move the crosshairs to the center of the grouping of where the bullets actually hit. The adjustment is usually made by a couple of Allen screws.

Awesome. Our county sheriff still isn't processing handgun licenses, so it's all long-arms for us.

Jul 16, 2020#169

PatrThom

Gared said:
is Ruger a reputable maker of 22LR semi-auto rifles?

The Ruger 10/22 carbine is one of THE best-known, most widely-owned .22cal rifles in existence. It's like asking if Honda is a reputable maker of hatchback cars.

Gared said:
how difficult is it to install a gun sight accurately?

Installing it isn't that difficult. Training it is what will take the most time.

GasBandit said:
You'll just need some sandbags or something similar like that to rest the gun on and aim at a target downrange, try to make sure the gun doesn't move, aim the crosshairs at the middle of the target and fire 5 to 10 rounds. then move the crosshairs to the center of the grouping of where the bullets actually hit. The adjustment is usually made by a couple of Allen screws.

This is excellent advice. Just make sure to do your training at (or close to) the distance you intend to shoot AND make sure to do it on as windless of a day as possible. A standard .22 projectile only weighs just a little over 2-1/2 grams (about a tenth of an ounce) so it is extremely susceptible to wind, impact with raindrops, etc. So-called "hyper-velocity" ammo is even lighter. Keep in mind that using a scope means you will not be able to use your iron sights for close-range shooting as it will obstruct their use. You can buy elevated sight rings that hold your sight up high enough to peer below your scope for iron sight usage, but the increased elevation of the scope means the firearm's overall profile will be higher and harder to fit in cases and such, and the added height also slightly reduces the precision of your scope due to the increased parallax.

Disclosure: I own both a Ruger 10/22 and also a Ruger Model 44.

--Patrick

Jul 16, 2020#170

Shakey

Nothing wrong with Ruger, but I’m partial to savage rifles. I love their accu-trigger, and it’s about that same price for the A22.

A22 | 22 LR Semi Auto Rimfire Rifle | Savage Arms

A22 is a truly reliable 22 LR semi auto rimfire rifle, with a user adjustable AccuTrigger, a button rifled barrel, and a rugged composite stock.

www.savagearms.com

Jul 16, 2020#171

Gared

I knew Ruger for pistols, much like I know Sig Sauer and Beretta for pistols and H&K for MP5s. All from books, overwhelmingly written by Tom Clancy. I just didn't know if they were also good with rifles.

Jul 16, 2020#172

PatrThom

Shakey said:
I’m partial to savage rifles.

Marlin is another name that was good back when I was still looking.

Gared said:
I just didn't know if they were also good with rifles.

No worries, friend. Nobody can know everything. This is the same sort of thing that happens to me when I ask stuff like, “I’ve never seen Avatar: The Last Airbender, is it any good?”

EDIT: “Marlin,” not “Martin.” DYAC

—Patrick

Jul 16, 2020#173

sixpackshaker

The 10/22 it a great little rifle. Especially for training.

If this will be for self defense, might look at a pistol caliber carbine.

Jul 16, 2020#174

Gared

sixpackshaker said:
The 10/22 it a great little rifle. Especially for training.

If this will be for self defense, might look at a pistol caliber carbine.

Good to know.

PatrThom said:
Martin is another name that was good back when I was still looking.

No worries, friend. Nobody can know everything. This is the same sort of thing that happens to me when I ask stuff like, “I’ve never seen Avatar: The Last Airbender, is it any good?”

—Patrick

Thank goodness. Forty snuck up on me and I am suddenly very cognizant of the amount of things about which I need to know more.

Jul 16, 2020#175

drifter

PCCs are technically classified as handguns, aren’t they? Just a heads up in case of the licensing issue.

Jul 16, 2020#176

PatrThom

drifter said:
PCCs are technically classified as handguns, aren’t they?

...no? My Model 44 is still considered a carbine even though it is chambered for .44 Mag. I think there are lever-action .357’s, too.

Also correction to my earlier comment: “Marlin,” not “Martin.” DYAC

—Patrick

Jul 16, 2020#177

GasBandit

I think that varies from state to state. Pretty sure that's not the case in CO or TX.

Jul 16, 2020#178

PatrThom

I mean, I would find that hard to believe, otherwise that would mean all those lever-action Winchesters would be “pistols” simply because they are chambered for .45LC.

At the federal level, at least, it is a “long-gun” if the barrel is >= 16in (18in for shotguns) and the overall length including stock is >= 26in. So something like a Thompson/Center Contender would not qualify as a “rifle,” even when chambered for .30-06.

—Patrick

Jul 16, 2020#179

sixpackshaker

Big Boy X Model | Henry Repeating Arms

Creating the mold and then breaking out of it is something that we take great pride in. It’s how we progress and continue pushing the boundaries of what lever actions are capable of. The Big Boy X Model does just that and marks an evolutionary step in a product line with quite the pedigree...

www.henryusa.com

My personal recommendation. I wish I could find one for myself. I want the .357 and shoot .38 special out of it for home defense. So I won't end up shooting too far through the walls.

Mossberg Maverick 88 Security 12 Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun | Academy

Designed with a fixed choke, cylinder-bore barrel, the Mossberg Maverick 88 Security 12 Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun is designed with a 3" chamber that handles factory...

www.academy.com

My current home defense gun. $200 and I hope to never shoot it again.

Jul 16, 2020#180

AshburnerX

As much as I love my Henrys, if $700+ is a bit too much of price, the Marlin 336 isn't a terrible option for a lever and it's only $550.

I will echo the Mossberg though. It's practically the Glock of shotguns.

Jul 16, 2020#181

sixpackshaker

Pew Pew Tactical – Level Up Your Gun Knowledge

We'll take you from gun noob to tactical operator in no time with our Definitive Guides, Gun & Gear Reviews, and Daily Deals. No politics & no attitude.

www.pewpewtactical.com

Great gun info, very little politics. I've learned a lot from this website, I was already a gun nut when I went there.

I recommended the Herny because they actually make the .357. Marlin only seems to have it in the catalogue.

Jul 16, 2020#182

Gared

sixpackshaker said:
Big Boy X Model | Henry Repeating Arms

Creating the mold and then breaking out of it is something that we take great pride in. It’s how we progress and continue pushing the boundaries of what lever actions are capable of. The Big Boy X Model does just that and marks an evolutionary step in a product line with quite the pedigree...

www.henryusa.com

My personal recommendation. I wish I could find one for myself. I want the .357 and shoot .38 special out of it for home defense. So I won't end up shooting too far through the walls.

Mossberg Maverick 88 Security 12 Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun | Academy

Designed with a fixed choke, cylinder-bore barrel, the Mossberg Maverick 88 Security 12 Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun is designed with a 3" chamber that handles factory...

www.academy.com

My current home defense gun. $200 and I hope to never shoot it again.

Hmm... Henry's are sold by my local gun shop of choice, so that's a definite plus. Let me root around on Pew Pew Tactical for a bit and see what I wander out of Bi-Mart with (after a successful federal background check, and appropriate waiting period, of course).

Jul 16, 2020#183

sixpackshaker

They are really good at figuring out what you want to buy. Youtube nutnfancy has good advice about finding out what you want a gun for. Hitchcock .45 is a good channel to see the gun you are interested in action.

My personal advice if you want to own guns. Buy in this order.

Shotgun, .22 pistol, .22 rifle, Glock 9mm, bolt action, AR-15.

A pump shotgun is very good for home defense and hunting if you buy a longer barrel to switch out. Many come with an 18 inch and 24+ inch barrel. .22 pistol or rifle are good to take to the range to learn to shoot. Take classes if you have no experience. I don't personally own a Glock but those guns are indestructible. And they go bang when you want, and do not go bang when you do not. Bolt action is if you are interested in long range shooting or hunting. AR-15 is a right and a responsibility but a terrible gun for a first time gun buyer because of the power.

Jul 16, 2020#184

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
My current home defense gun. $200 and I hope to never shoot it again.

I got my maverick 88 for $120. I love it. It has never jammed on me, and it just feels good to shoot.

Jul 19, 2020#185

BErt

Blowing off your own foot and dick to own the libs

Jul 19, 2020#186

Gared

BErt Again said:
Blowing off your own foot and dick to own the libs

This is why you shouldn't LARP with AR15s.

Jul 19, 2020#187

drifter

I'm sorry, does that dude have a wristband ammo sling? Is that actually useful?

Jul 26, 2020#188

GasBandit

'It’s my constitutional freaking right': Black Americans arm themselves in response to pandemic, protests

Conservatives are using images of Black protesters with guns to justify their calls for law and order.

www.politico.com

Aug 19, 2020#189

PatrThom

Why?

Whyyyyyyyyy???

--Patrick

Aug 19, 2020#190

AshburnerX

Magnum Research BFR, otherwise known as the Ranger Sequoia. My god, who would snub that? If you want a gun that big for close work, just get a damn Taurus Judge.

Aug 19, 2020#191

Bubble181

PatrThom said:
Why?

Whyyyyyyyyy???

--Patrick

As with most specialty guns, beers, trucks,.... I think it's because "why not?".

Aug 19, 2020#192

PatrThom

I assume it's the handgun equivalent of the guy who attached a V8 engine to his BBQ grill to turn the spit, or the people who YouTube themselves counting how many ghost pepper chiles they can eat in one sitting, etc.

--Patrick

Aug 19, 2020#193

Dei

That gun makes me think of Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Aug 19, 2020#194

Just Me

Maybe he should try and snub this: https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Pfeifer_Zeliska

Aug 20, 2020#195

Dei

Aug 20, 2020#196

GasBandit

Aug 20, 2020#197

PatrThom

Dei said:

I saw this with the headline, “GUN NUTS GUN NUTS”

—Patrick

Aug 20, 2020#198

Tinwhistler

Well, to get back to actual gun ownership, I bought a Sig Sauer RM-400 today, with an economy red dot scope for it.
Can't show you an actual picture of the gun yet, because the background check hadn't gotten back in by the time they closed, but I'll be picking it up at lunch tomorrow.

Here's an internet pic of the gun, tho.

So, I consider myself left of center about many things, but I think a lot of Dem's and libs have their heads up their butts about gun control. It's theater. They don't make laws that actually curb gun violence. My state House passed a bill last year that would've made the above gun illegal because it's an "assault rifle". You know what the real difference between this gun and any other semi-automatic hunting rifle out there is? It looks scarier because it looks 'tactical' or 'military'. It's still just a rifle. For comparison, here's the difference between the ammo my AR-15 shoots (5.56 NATO or 223) vs the ammo my 30-06 shot.

Aug 21, 2020#199

Gared

Mmm... 30-06...

Aug 21, 2020#200

Tinwhistler

Gared said:
Mmm... 30-06...

First time I shot it, it goes "whooom!", and all the guys on the line who were shooting .22's with their kids all look over real slow like "what the actual fuck...". I was not prepared. I totally scoped myself in the eye, and after the one shot, I trekked my ass back up to the gun shop on the hill above the range and bought two layers of gel pads for my shoulder.

Aug 21, 2020#201

Gared

Tinwhistler said:
First time I shot it, it goes "whooom!", and all the guys on the line who were shooting .22's with their kids all look over real slow like "what the actual fuck...". I was not prepared. I totally scoped myself in the eye, and after the one shot, I trekked my ass back up to the gun shop on the hill above the range and bought two layers of gel pads for my shoulder.

Sounds about right. I've only fired one once, and it was when I was 15 at Philmont. I think I had that kickback bruise for a week at least.

Aug 21, 2020#202

Shakey

I use a 30-06 for deer hunting, a Savage 114. The gun is great, and I know when I shoot, it’s going down quick.

Aug 21, 2020#203

PatrThom

Helped my father sight in his 7x57* once as a teen. Later, I pondered whether he had not let me have a turn at it so much as he just wanted to rest his shoulder.

—Patrick
*it may actually have been a 7mm Remington Magnum? I just remember it was 7mm but not exotic.

Aug 21, 2020#204

Tinwhistler

Gared said:
Sounds about right. I've only fired one once, and it was when I was 15 at Philmont. I think I had that kickback bruise for a week at least.

I was wearing a tshirt with no padding for that first shot. Felt a lot like a horse kick. And if you've never felt a real horse kick, you only think you imagine what that feels like. But you're wrong.

But it only took once for me to learn

Aug 21, 2020#205

Gared

Something tells me I won't have to worry about kick if I have my new gear on. Since I can't feel anything else in it.

Italian Military Surplus Tactical Carrier Vest with Ceramic Plates, Used

Sportsman's Guide carries top-quality discount Outdoor and Hunting Gear, Guns, Ammo, Fishing Supplies and more - all at great low prices!

www.sportsmansguide.com

Aug 21, 2020#206

Tinwhistler

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Jack of plate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Aug 21, 2020#207

Tinwhistler

Took off work a little early.

Aug 21, 2020#208

Ravenpoe

Tinwhistler said:
View attachment 35042

Took off work a little early.

Nice trigger discipline

Aug 21, 2020#209

GasBandit

I used 30-06 to hunt deer back when I did such things. Can attest, that kick learns ya REAL quick to pull that buttstock tight.

Aug 21, 2020#210

Ravenpoe

Hehehehehe.... buttstock

Aug 21, 2020#211

PatrThom

Ravenpoe said:
Hehehehehe.... buttstock

Hehehehehe... tight

--Patrick

Aug 22, 2020#212

Tinwhistler

Took the rifle, and my pistol (which i haven't shot since changing the trigger mechanism and springs to a lighter pull) to the range today.

At 10 yards with the 9mm pistol. I'm way out of practice

It's kinda useless to post pics of the AR-15 targets, because I was sighting in a red dot optic the whole time on them, so out of 40 rounds, a lot of them are way off, and only the last 5-10 or so were properly sighted in.

Aug 24, 2020#213

Krisken

Looks to me like you could apply to the Milwaukee PD.

Aug 24, 2020#214

GasBandit

Krisken said:
Looks to me like you could apply to the Milwaukee PD.

FAR too accurate for police work.

Aug 24, 2020#215

sixpackshaker

As an IT guy that went shooting with the cops I worked with... yep! I out shot all but two of them.

Aug 24, 2020#216

Tinwhistler

Krisken said:
Looks to me like you could apply to the Milwaukee PD.

Here too...but that doesn't mean I'm happy with how sloppy my shooting has gotten.

Aug 27, 2020#217

Gared

So uh, y'all got any more of them private sales egg<cough>xemptions<cough><cough>? </Chapelle.png>

Sep 5, 2020#218

Dave

So I'm looking to buy a weapon. But when I looked they were all over the place for price. What sucks is if I do this I won't be able to afford my computer upgrade. Mother fucker.

Sep 5, 2020#219

Tinwhistler

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

What kind of weapon are you looking for? Ammo's gonna be the real problem.

Sep 5, 2020#220

Dave

Well, I'm really, REALLY good with a rifle, but that's kind of unwieldy. So probably just a 9 mm of some sort. I'll check out the link.

It really sucks I have to be doing this. I got rid of all my weapons when I left the Corps and got married to a woman who had a kid. I don't WANT to have to get a weapon. It's fucking stupid.

Sep 5, 2020#221

GasBandit

You can still get Mossberg Maverick 88s (a very decent 12 ga shotgun) for under $200 brand new.

Sep 5, 2020#222

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
You can still get Mossberg Maverick 88s (a very decent 12 ga shotgun) for under $200 brand new.

This is my advice too. If you want it for home defense, you can't beat the price, reliability, and ease of use of your basic 12-gauge shotgun. It's got other advantages too:

- Simply cocking a shotgun is a field tested and researched deterrent. Everybody knows what that sound is and what it means. People have lost their nerve and surrendered just hearing it.
- Buckshot is much less likely to tear through your walls and hit someone on the other side (though it might, so still be careful).

Sep 5, 2020#223

PatrThom

Seconded. If you're buying specifically for home defense, shotgun should be your first acquisition.
Make sure to get one with a fully open cylinder (i.e., with no choke whatsoever).

--Patrick

Sep 5, 2020#224

drifter

Dave said:
So I'm looking to buy a weapon. But when I looked they were all over the place for price. What sucks is if I do this I won't be able to afford my computer upgrade. Mother fucker.

This 'cause of your dumbass brother? If you want something cheap there's always the Yeet Cannon, assuming you can find one.

AshburnerX said:
- Simply cocking a shotgun is a field tested and researched deterrent. Everybody knows what that sound is and what it means. People have lost their nerve and surrendered just hearing it.

I wonder if anybody has ever tried to Kevin McCallister it and use a recording of that sound to ward someone off.

Sep 5, 2020#225

GasBandit

RE: Yeet Cannons, they're Hi-Point. I looked into Hi-Points a while back (because they are so cheap), and found that they have a reputation for unreliability. I would not trust a Hi-Point in any situation where a life is at stake.

Sep 5, 2020#226

drifter

I mostly just wanted an excuse to point out there's a gun called the Yeet Cannon. Though I've heard they're actually fairly reliable, just ugly as shit.

Sep 5, 2020#227

GasBandit

drifter said:
I mostly just wanted an excuse to point out there's a gun called the Yeet Cannon. Though I've heard they're actually fairly reliable, just ugly as shit.

The guys I talked to about them said basically, "look, you couldn't get me to stand down range of a guy using one, but it definitely wouldn't set my mind at ease to have one as my only defense option, either."

Sep 5, 2020#228

PatrThom

You're all ignoring the best part about that product page.
It's an info page for a handgun, but of course because CA, it has to run a disclaimer about how some components may contain materials which are known to the state of CA to cause cancer and/or reproductive harm.

--Patrick

Sep 5, 2020#229

Tinwhistler

The Hi-Point C9 - YEET Cannon Ramen Noodle Gun - The Mag Life

Hi-Point's YEET Cannon broke the internet for about a week. Now we have our hands on a limited edition C9 YEET Cannon for test and review.

gunmagwarehouse.com

After reading that review, I wouldn't want one. The reviewer calls the gun "reliable" but documents 4 separate magazine feed problems they had.

Sep 5, 2020#230

Tinwhistler

This is the pistol I have. Low cost, no frills, accurately firing from Smith and Wesson

Smith & Wesson SD9 VE 9mm 4" 16+1 Black Satin

Simmons Sporting Goods features S&W 223900 SD9VE PISTOL from SMITH & WESSON INC.

www.simmonssportinggoods.com

$300....hard to beat. (and, of course, like most /r/GunDeals sales, it went out of stock minutes after being posted)

Sep 5, 2020#231

Tinwhistler

If you get the SD9VE, though, I totally recommend the Apex Tactical spring kit replacement.

Spring Kit for SDVE and Sigma

Spring Kit for SDVE and Sigma The Apex Spring Kit (model specific) is an important upgrade to the trigger pull of the SDVE or Sigma pistols, yet still ideal for duty/carry and personal protection purposes. When properly installed, this kit will: -Reduce

www.apextactical.com

The guy in the video makes it look easy. This isn't the same video they had before--that guy also made it look easy. They both did it in about 15 minutes. Took me closer to an hour--and I nearly lost a spring when I shot it across the room.

But, it took my trigger pull down to like 6lbs, and made the gun much nicer to fire. It was a gun show purchase and had the Massachusetts compliant 10.5lb trigger pull, because it lacks a safety.

Sep 5, 2020#232

PatrThom

Tinwhistler said:
$300....hard to beat. (and, of course, like most /r/GunDeals sales, it went out of stock minutes after being posted)

I looked around at M9A1 and 92X Compact pricing for something he might be more used to, but those seem to be hovering right around $650.

--Patrick

Sep 5, 2020#233

figmentPez

Sep 5, 2020#234

PatrThom

IMHO anyone who buys a limited-edition TALO Colt Defender and straps it to his face in such a manner as to make it near-impossible to draw effectively while simultaneously pointing it at very important parts of one's anatomy deserves to be ridiculed for it...especially since he is so dumb that he bought the Democrat-colored one.

--Patrick

Sep 5, 2020#235

drifter

I believe that is a Kimber Micro 9 Sapphire

Sep 5, 2020#236

PatrThom

drifter said:
I believe that is a Kimber Micro 9 Sapphire

Ah, looks like you're probably right. I saw the beavertail and immediately assumed Colt.
The part about the color choice still holds, though.

--Patrick

Sep 7, 2020#237

Tinwhistler

shakin the rust off

Sep 11, 2020#238

Tinwhistler

@Dave SD9VE back in stock and on sale for $299.99

Smith & Wesson SD9 VE 9mm 4" 16+1 Black Satin

Simmons Sporting Goods features S&W 223900 SD9VE PISTOL from SMITH & WESSON INC.

www.simmonssportinggoods.com

If you're still looking, keep an eye on the /r/gundeals subreddit. Inexpensive decent pistols show up all the time.

Sep 11, 2020#239

Squidleybits

That mask holster has to be a joke. Please tell me it’s a joke.

Sep 11, 2020#240

PatrThom

Narrator: It was not a joke.

--Patrick

Sep 11, 2020#241

Dave

I'm not looking. My cousin who works for the DHS is going to be there packing and he's aware of the situation.

Sep 11, 2020#242

sixpackshaker

Tinwhistler said:
shakin the rust off

View attachment 35227

Damn, that is a bit better shooting than I do. I shoot the hell out of the line between the 9 and 10 ring to the right.

Sep 12, 2020#243

Tinwhistler

Went out shooting with my wife again today. The rust is coming off my skill set nicely.

The range guys told us about a 'competition mode' on the range target system, since we were shooting side-by-side. She jokingly asked if we wanted to do it when we hit the lanes, but I declined.

About halfway through this target, I feel her looking at me through the plexiglass, so I look over, and she flips me off

(her target didn't look nearly as nice, and she was shooting 5 yards closer lol).

This time around, I was practicing my more rapid shooting, trying to reacquire the target as fast as I could and just squeeze the rounds off. I'd guess about 0.5-1 second, give or take, between shots.

Sep 13, 2020#244

figmentPez

Sep 13, 2020#245

PatrThom

Original source, for those interested.

--Patrick

Sep 13, 2020#246

AshburnerX

Calico 9mm SMG: Fiddly gun, can't get past 400 rounds without an issue.

AK-47: You can force this this to fire more than 600 rounds in a row, WHILE it's on fire, if you're willing to slam it into a table.

Sep 13, 2020#247

Ravenpoe

AshburnerX said:
Calico 9mm SMG: Fiddly gun, can't get past 400 rounds without an issue.

AK-47: You can force this this to fire more than 600 rounds in a row, WHILE it's on fire, if you're willing to slam it into a table.

Technically it's an AK-103, but same family.

Sep 13, 2020#248

PatrThom

AshburnerX said:
You can force this this to fire more than 600 rounds in a row, WHILE it's on fire, if you're willing to slam it into a table.

I think after putting > 1k rounds through it, slamming it into a table would be little more than a welcome diversion for it. Also if you haven’t destroyed the table after the first dozen or so magazines, I doubt hitting it will be any more effective.

—-Patrick

Sep 21, 2020#249

figmentPez

Sep 21, 2020#250

DarkAudit

oops.

Oct 18, 2020#251

DarkAudit

From YouTube recommendations, ker-BLAMMO!!

Oct 18, 2020#252

Gared

Picked up a couple of entry-level crossbows for home defense/playing around with. They're not legal to hunt with in Oregon and it looks like the state has no intention of ever changing that, but I didn't buy them for hunting, so that's not an issue. Really wish there were better resources for knowing the local open-carry laws aside from hunting guides, though. Can I open carry my crossbow? I don't know! Can I open carry my SAW through town? 100% yes!

But on the subject of rifles, I know Barrett is good for large caliber rifles, but they're mostly sold out. The problem of coming back to guns after so long. Who are Barrett's competitors?

Oct 18, 2020#253

PatrThom

Gared said:
Who are Barrett's competitors?

Assuming you mean for hunting prey (and not for, say, disabling a vehicle), then you are probably looking for something chambered in 7.62x54, .30-06, 7mm Mag, or .300 WMR. There are many more, but these are commonly available.
A quick search shows manufacturers of such bolt-action rifles include Weatherby, Remington, Savage, Mauser, Franchi, Bergara, Winchester, Browning, and more I don’t recognize (Howa, CZ, Christensen, etc).
Remington Arms apparently went out of business a few months ago, which came as a bit of a surprise to me, but there are still plenty of rifles in the channel.

EDIT: I left off .308 as another caliber to look for. Its performance is similar to that of the 7.62x54 but with slightly longer reach.

—Patrick

Oct 18, 2020#254

AshburnerX

PatrThom said:
Remington Arms apparently went out of business a few months ago, which came as a bit of a surprise to me, but there are still plenty of rifles in the channel.

—Patrick

Remington, aside from having a bazillion creditors, was about to be sued out of existence by the Sandy Hooks families... and that was after a previous restructuring. I personally believe they are breaking up the business to prevent the lawsuit from going forward, while protecting the assets by dividing them up into entities that can't be held liable for the event.

Oct 18, 2020#255

Gared

PatrThom said:
Assuming you mean for hunting prey (and not for, say, disabling a vehicle), then you are probably looking for something chambered in 7.62x54, .30-06, 7mm Mag, or .300 WMR. There are many more, but these are commonly available.
A quick search shows manufacturers of such bolt-action rifles include Weatherby, Remington, Savage, Mauser, Franchi, Bergara, Winchester, Browning, and more I don’t recognize (Howa, CZ, Christensen, etc).
Remington Arms apparently went out of business a few months ago, which came as a bit of a surprise to me, but there are still plenty of rifles in the channel.

EDIT: I left off .308 as another caliber to look for. Its performance is similar to that of the 7.62x54 but with slightly longer reach.

—Patrick

What if I'm hunting Blue Birds and Greyhounds? 50 BMG is pretty much it, right? I mean, aside from 37mm or 40mm grenades? Also, I should point out, Oregon has very lax limitations on weapons ownership.

Oct 18, 2020#256

PatrThom

AshburnerX said:
Remington, aside from having a bazillion creditors, was about to be sued out of existence by the Sandy Hooks families... and that was after a previous restructuring. I personally believe they are breaking up the business to prevent the lawsuit from going forward, while protecting the assets by dividing them up into entities that can't be held liable for the event.

That's utter bullshit, btw, because everybody knows the brand name on the receiver did not cause those deaths, it was the finger on the trigger that did, but GUNZ BAD*. But I realize that sometimes even being right is not enough to prevent being SLAPPed out of existence if your opponents are sufficiently motivated and/or numerous.

Gared said:
What if I'm hunting Blue Birds and Greyhounds? 50 BMG is pretty much it, right?

The phrase you're probably looking for is "anti-materiel."

Gared said:
Oregon has very lax limitations on weapons ownership.

Wikipedia said:
In the United States, Washington, D.C. disallows registration of .50 BMG rifles, thus rendering civilian possession unlawful. California prohibits the private purchase of a rifle capable of firing the .50 BMG through the .50 Caliber BMG Regulation Act of 2004. Connecticut specifically bans the Barrett 82A1 .50 BMG rifle. However, .50 BMG rifles registered prior to the enacted bans remain lawful to possess in California and Connecticut. Maryland imposes additional regulations on the sale and transfer of .50 BMG rifles and other "regulated firearms", and limits purchases of any firearm within this class to one per month, but does not impose registration requirements or any form of categorical ban.

If you want to limit yourself to 50 BMG, the only other names I saw in a "for sale" search were Armalite's AR-50A1 and the Remington R2MI, though there are apparently plenty of other models. They're all ridiculously heavy 20-40lb and ridiculously expensive (to buy AND to feed), though.

--Patrick
*Except in cases where GUNZ MA FUNDAM3NTAL RIGHT of course.

Oct 18, 2020#257

AshburnerX

PatrThom said:
That's utter bullshit, btw, because everybody knows the brand name on the receiver did not cause those deaths, it was the finger on the trigger that did, but GUNZ BAD*. But I realize that sometimes even being right is not enough to prevent being SLAPPed out of existence if your opponents are sufficiently motivated and/or numerous.

They repeatedly, intentionally advertised the Bushmaster in a fashion that was not only irresponsible, but was designed to highlight it's effectiveness in a use that, as a civilian firearm, it should not and would not be used. It's the equivalent of making pesticides and highlighting it's effectiveness at killing humans if you make them drink it... except you actually designed the chemicals to do that the entire time and profited off of people's fantasies of poisoning their neighbors... and that's a position coming from someone who is generally pro-gun rights!

To be frank, they deserved some punishment for that amount of sheer irresponsiblity and yes, it's about god damn time that the families of victims had SOME means of being compensated for the tragedies they and their families had to endure. You can argue this isn't the right way to go about it (I might agree; I think instead that all gun companies that produce such weaponery should be forced to pay into a fund to compensate the victims of such tragedies, funded by the sale of such weapons, if we're just not going to do anything about such events) but legally the victims and their families have been left with few options for redress.

Oct 18, 2020#258

PatrThom

AshburnerX said:
They repeatedly, intentionally advertised the Bushmaster in a fashion that was not only irresponsible, but was designed to highlight it's effectiveness...

This tells me that I do not know as much about the case as I thought I did.

EDIT: To clarify, @AshburnerX , I did not know the currently pending case hinges on the manufacturer-endorsed marketing of the weapon, which appears crafted so as to entice buyers by emotionally appealing to their power fantasies rather than matter-of-factly stating its specs or capabilities, and I definitely agree that the marketing materials for weapons are not an appropriate place for romanticizing how they should be employed.

--Patrick

Oct 27, 2020#259

DarkAudit

Nov 16, 2020#260

figmentPez

Nov 16, 2020#261

PatrThom

”#8 will blow you away!”

—Patrick

Nov 16, 2020#262

Dave

Some of these you can tell were made by people who played too many Fallout games.

Nov 26, 2020#263

DarkAudit

. Just

Nov 28, 2020#264

Tinwhistler

My S&W SD9VE is just too cumbersome for concealed carry.
So I went out and got me a cute little Sig Sauer P365 today.

Nov 28, 2020#265

PatrThom

First the care package, now this?
I feel questions coming on about what your new job might entail...

—Patrick

Nov 28, 2020#266

Tinwhistler

PatrThom said:
First the care package, now this?
I feel questions coming on about what your new job might entail...

—Patrick

I could tell you, but...

Nov 28, 2020#267

PatrThom

Tinwhistler said:
I could tell you, but...

...yes, yes. But then all the mystery would be gone from our relationship, I know.

--Patrick

Nov 28, 2020#268

sixpackshaker

Tinwhistler said:
My S&W SD9VE is just too cumbersome for concealed carry.
So I went out and got me a cute little Sig Sauer P365 today.

View attachment 36314

I've heard some really good press on that gun. Let us know how it is to shoot after your first hundred rounds through it.

Nov 28, 2020#269

Tinwhistler

sixpackshaker said:
I've heard some really good press on that gun. Let us know how it is to shoot after your first hundred rounds through it.

Will do. Gonna try to take it out next weekend.

Dec 2, 2020#270

DarkAudit

Dec 7, 2020#271

Tinwhistler

Ammo shortage? Not if you know where to troll on the internet

Unfortunately, prices are still high..ended up paying 82 cpr for these

Dec 7, 2020#272

PatrThom

Tinwhistler said:
Ammo shortage? Not if you know where to troll on the internet

Got a buddy who as of yesterday is trying to unload (heh) about 800rds of .22LR that someone gave him for free.
I'm half tempted to take him up on it.

--Patrick

Dec 7, 2020#273

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Got a buddy who as of yesterday is trying to unload (heh) about 800rds of .22LR that someone gave him for free.
I'm half tempted to take him up on it.

--Patrick

What's his asking?

Dec 7, 2020#274

Shakey

Nerf guns count?
I’m getting my 4, almost 5, year old some nerf guns for Christmas and thought I should get a desk gun in case he decides to ambush me.

I think this may be more gun than I needed. :rofl:

Dec 7, 2020#275

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
What's his asking?

He didn't say. I didn't ask.

--Patrick

Dec 8, 2020#276

Tinwhistler

Quality of life improvement today. AR-15 and generic handgun magloaders. They both work really well (Magula brand)

Dec 13, 2020#277

PatrThom

I... guess this is the most appropriate thread for this?

CMV: The Second Amendment protects the right to bear "arms." The US government has defined encryption technology as a form of "arms" for decades, beginning with the Enigma Machine in WW2. I believe that the second amendment should protect the right to "bear" encryption.

It's an interesting discussion.

--Patrick

Dec 13, 2020#278

blotsfan

Dec 13, 2020#279

jwhouk

Talk about your obscure uses of ancient texts, Batman!

Dec 19, 2020#280

DarkAudit

COVID-19 took down the oldest gun shop in America.

The John Jovino Gun Shop: The Closing of a Noir Landmark in Downtown New York

Throughout the long lurid history of the New York Police Department—the corruption scandals and serial offenders, manhunts and race riots—one institution held steady: the John Jovino Gun Shop, wher…

crimereads.com

Dec 20, 2020#281

@Li3n

Dec 20, 2020#282

Tinwhistler

(yes, I now this is the gun thread)
We use the metric system in places where it's been adopted and used so much we know what it is.
Most everyone knows what a 9mm round, a 2 liter bottle of soda (and 1 liters are become more common over the 20oz size), or a 10mm socket wrench is. If business made large scale changes to their labeling, those of us in the US would totally know the metric system. But since it's not used in daily life, it doesn't stick.

Dec 20, 2020#283

GasBandit

For volumes and small measurements, we're already metric, like Tin says.

The holdouts are long distances (miles), which will take some time, and temperature - which will probably perpetuate forever, because as I've said countless times before, the boiling and freezing point of water are arbitrary landmarks, whereas 0-100 degrees F more closely mirrors the range of human comfort/survival with greater precision without requiring a decimal.

Dec 20, 2020#284

AshburnerX

Imperial will always live on in the cooking world.

Dec 20, 2020#285

@Li3n

I love how y'all 'muricans went all in on the measurements, and not the actual jab at your gun culture...

Dec 20, 2020#286

jwhouk

Most soft drink companies sell half-liter bottles now instead of the 20 oz bottles (which seem to be exclusively set for single-beverage purchase points).

And just so y'all know, my in-laws live near km marker 69 on I-19.

Dec 28, 2020#287

Tinwhistler

soon...

(ok, maybe not so soon. It's currently taking the ATF 9-13 months to process approvals...so...Eventually?)

Dec 30, 2020#288

DarkAudit

It's Gun Jesus, so it goes here instead of the Star Wars thread.

Dec 30, 2020#289

PatrThom

I like how he's obviously a supreme gun nerd, but then warns he may not get all the lore correct because he's a gun nerd, NOT a Star Wars nerd.

--Patrick

Dec 30, 2020#290

Tinwhistler

I wasn't sure I wanted to watch the vid, but after I started it, I realized I've seen a ton of this guy's videos. So I settled in

Dec 31, 2020#291

Tinwhistler

Can't wait to take this thing out to the range and test it out.

It's a laser boresight. It's shaped like a bullet because you put it in the chamber of your gun (my ar-15 in this case), and it shines a laser out the end and onto the target.

In the olden days, to sight in a scope: Turn on red dot, shoot a group of three, bring the target back, calculate the MOA, click the sight adjustments a few times. Try again.

This thing, in theory, should allow me to: Put a laser dot on the target. Click the sight adjustments until the two dots line up. Done. I have high hopes.

edit: understanding that bullet physics are different than laser physics, so I realize it won't be *quite* that simple.

Dec 31, 2020#292

PatrThom

Tinwhistler said:
Click the sight adjustments until the two dots line up. Done. I have high hopes.

In reality, you will want the laser dot to be slightly above your sight dot (to account for bullet drop), depending on the distance to the target.
Later, you will make more adjustments if you discover your barrel has a tendency to skew L or R, but you will save SO many rounds you would have wasted getting it "on the paper."

--Patrick

Dec 31, 2020#293

Tinwhistler

(nod) I was editing my post just as you posted.

Dec 31, 2020#294

GasBandit

I've used laser boresights before that get inserted into the tip of the barrel. This one might be a smidge more accurate (because there's always a little slop between the stem of the boresight and the barrel), as I'd hope the manufacturing is to more exacting specifications.

It looks neat, anyway.

Dec 31, 2020#295

figmentPez

So, it doesn't convert your bullet gun into a laser gun? LAME.

Dec 31, 2020#296

GasBandit

figmentPez said:
So, it doesn't convert your bullet gun into a laser gun? LAME.

I mean... technically it does? It's just the laser isn't sufficient power to damage anything other than eyesight

And also it never stops firing.

Dec 31, 2020#297

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
So, it doesn't convert your bullet gun into a laser gun? LAME.

Well, technically, it does. It's just a weak-ass laser gun

Edit: I didn't read GB's post until I posted. Leaving for posterity to show that gmta

Dec 31, 2020#298

AshburnerX

Weak laser? Check.
Doesn't stop firing? Check.
Still keeps the line? Check, Xenos scum.

Jan 2, 2021#299

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
Weak laser? Check.

Weak equalling being able to blow your arm off in one shot, and it just being outclassed by automatic rocket launchers, gravity propelled monomolecular ninja stars / crystal shards, plasma bullets etc.

Jan 3, 2021#300

figmentPez

Not sure if this would go better in the LEGO thread, but here:
Bygone Armaments presents the Zamor Sphere Launcher
(a Bionicle parody of Forgotten Weapons)

Jan 4, 2021#301

@Li3n

No test shooting?

DISAPPOINTED!!!

Jan 11, 2021#302

Tinwhistler

Got me a little sig p365 not too long ago. I wanted something a little more compact for concealed carry.
The problem: It felt rinky-dink in my hand. I was afraid that if I shot it, it'd come slipping right out of my grip.
So, I got a fairly inexpensive rubberized grip sleeve for it, and it feels tons better.

Jan 11, 2021#303

PatrThom

Is that an extended mag? Or just something else to make it less rinky-dinky?

--Patrick

Jan 11, 2021#304

Tinwhistler

PatrThom said:
Is that an extended mag? Or just something else to make it less rinky-dinky?

--Patrick

Extended mag, specifically to make it less rinky-dinky

Jan 15, 2021#305

figmentPez

National Rifle Association says it has filed bankruptcy petitions in U.S. court

But don't celebrate just yet:

"The gun rights advocacy group said it would restructure as a Texas nonprofit to exit what it said was a 'a corrupt political and regulatory environment in New York,' where it is currently registered."

Jan 15, 2021#306

jwhouk

I’m not sure what to make of this, but in an empty parking lot near my park - where normally they sell anything from hot dogs to cat trees to fireworks to Trump crap - they started selling body armor.

Jan 16, 2021#307

@Li3n

Stupid Watergate, followed by Stupid Civil War... i can't wait for Stupid-er Jim Crow laws to come...

Jan 30, 2021#308

DarkAudit

"Good guy with a gun."

Jan 30, 2021#309

PatrThom

This sounds more like someone got blinded by the prospect of getting their name in the papers as "hero dude saves dozens of dollars' worth of store merchandise."
Well, they got their name in the papers, all right.

--Patrick

Feb 11, 2021#310

figmentPez

Video game gun design:

Feb 11, 2021#311

DarkAudit

It took me a moment to realize what was going on there. O.O

Feb 11, 2021#312

PatrThom

I love this stuff. "Video game(/cartoon) logic" and such.

--Patrick

Feb 11, 2021#313

drifter

Apparently it's an energy weapon. I guess the magazine is more like a power pack?

Feb 12, 2021#314

PatrThom

US gun maker Colt bought by Czech company Ceska Zbrojovka

On the bright side, I guess this means my Python and Anaconda will see an increase in value.

--Patrick

Feb 13, 2021#315

PatrThom

Michigan Gun Shop Says It Won't Do Business With Biden Voters

Read the whole thread.

--Patrick

Feb 13, 2021#316

Ravenpoe

PatrThom said:
Michigan Gun Shop Says It Won't Do Business With Biden Voters

Read the whole thread.

--Patrick

It's a shame Joe Biden won and now they can't sell any more ammunition.

.. oh wait

Feb 13, 2021#317

sixpackshaker

Didn't the ammo vanish from the shelves during Trump's term?

I did not see a single box of ammo at Academy (a big box outdoors store) today.

Feb 13, 2021#318

Ravenpoe

sixpackshaker said:
Didn't the ammo vanish from the shelves during Trump's term?

I did not see a single box of ammo at Academy (a big box outdoors store) today.

Of the two candidates, Trump is also the only one to legitimately suggest taking everyone's guns away

Feb 13, 2021#319

jwhouk

Pfft. I'd probably lie about that anyways, just like they would.

And I'd do it while wearing my JOE hat, too.

Feb 13, 2021#320

Ravenpoe

jwhouk said:
Pfft. I'd probably lie about that anyways, just like they would.

And I'd do it while wearing my JOE hat, too.

I'd just buy from someone else.

Feb 23, 2021#321

figmentPez

Feb 23, 2021#322

Tinwhistler

love seeing that brass ping on his face

Feb 27, 2021#323

Tinwhistler

Mar 6, 2021#324

DarkAudit

Presented for the gun itself, and not its owner.

Mar 6, 2021#325

PatrThom

Throughout history, some very terrible people have nevertheless done some fantastically incredible things that deserve to be recognized and appreciated in spite of their provenance.

--Patrick

Mar 11, 2021#326

DarkAudit

Mar 11, 2021#327

mikerc

DarkAudit said:

Well he's demonstrating good trigger discipline at least.

Mar 24, 2021#328

figmentPez

Mar 24, 2021#329

PatrThom

So happy every time this comes around. Not because guns, but because clueless self-own.

—Patrick

May 7, 2021#330

figmentPez

The libertarian Doctor playset:

May 7, 2021#331

GasBandit

"Why is there a gun?" To shoot the birds, of course.

May 7, 2021#332

Tinwhistler

GasBandit said:
"Why is there a gun?" To shoot the birds, of course.

How else is a doctor supposed to get rid of these things?

May 7, 2021#333

PatrThom

The doctor will juggle it and the bowling pins to entertain his younger patients.

--Patrick

May 7, 2021#334

HCGLNS

Guns, smuns, why are there pretend pills? That's not a choking hazard at all....and a pump action revolver rifle....now I'm really worried.

May 7, 2021#335

figmentPez

HCGLNS said:
Guns, smuns, why are there pretend pills? That's not a choking hazard at all....

May 11, 2021#336

figmentPez

Federal judge denies NRA attempt to declare bankruptcy

May 11, 2021#337

DarkAudit

May 11, 2021#338

PatrThom

While funneling sufficient income from your organization technically does mean you get to call it a "non-profit organization," that is not at all what the designation is supposed to mean.

--Patrick

May 24, 2021#339

DarkAudit

Texas.

Just nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

May 25, 2021#340

Frank

May 25, 2021#341

DarkAudit

It's worse than I thought. No permits. No background checks.

Fuck you, Texas. Just fuck you.

May 25, 2021#342

Tinwhistler

DarkAudit said:
It's worse than I thought. No permits. No background checks.

Fuck you, Texas. Just fuck you.

Virginia already does this for open carry, and it hasn't really been an issue the 10 years I've been up here. Occasionally I see a guy strapping at the grocery store. It's not a big deal.

May 25, 2021#343

Bubble181

It's a big deal for someone with mental issues, be it depression or psychosis or delusions, to be able to literally just walk into a Walmart and buy what they want to shoot up a school or store.

May 25, 2021#344

Dirona

I can't be arsed to find it right now, but I'm pretty sure someone who is mentally ill is more likely to be shot than do the shooting.

May 25, 2021#345

HCGLNS

I am triggered by that video. Seriously, how do you not know how to spell?

May 25, 2021#346

Dei

Just because people talk about white male shooters with mental illness doesn't mean it's any more than an excuse to make it less bad that a white male did something wrong. Open carry, if anything, just means you can see the people who desperately need to use guns as their identity right out in the open.

May 25, 2021#347

Bubble181

*shrug *
I'm European. Normal people in a civilized society don't need easy instant access to firearms as far as I'm concerned. This is just something our cultural differences are too big for.
But even assuming you want anyone and everyone to have free access, no background checks at all - literally nothing - is a horrible idea that will result in more deaths than there needed to be.

May 25, 2021#348

PatrThom

It used to be "I don't dial 911" with a picture of a Colt 1911.
Now it's become "I don't wear no PPE" with a Walther PPK strapped on their hip.

--Patrick

May 25, 2021#349

Dei

Bubble181 said:
*shrug *
I'm European. Normal people in a civilized society don't need easy instant access to firearms as far as I'm concerned. This is just something our cultural differences are too big for.
But even assuming you want anyone and everyone to have free access, no background checks at all - literally nothing - is a horrible idea that will result in more deaths than there needed to be.

This is about open carry though, not buying guns.

May 25, 2021#350

Tinwhistler

Bubble181 said:
It's a big deal for someone with mental issues, be it depression or psychosis or delusions, to be able to literally just walk into a Walmart and buy what they want to shoot up a school or store.

Gun purchases will still require federal background checks. I assume DA is talking about 'constitutional carry'--the right to carry a gun openly or concealed.

I'm of the opinion that anyone who wants to carry concealed now probably already does do, whether or not they have a permit.I don't imagine taking the permit out of that equation will change much. The biggest societal change will probably be the open carry part. It's not a big deal in Virginia, but we've had it here for a long time. In Texas, I imagine it'll be like someone's 21st birthday (alcohol age here). They'll overdo it considerably because they've been repressed, until they learn to moderate.

May 25, 2021#351

Dei

Tinwhistler said:
Gun purchases will still require federal background checks. I assume DA is talking about 'constitutional carry'--the right to carry a gun openly or concealed.

I'm of the opinion that anyone who wants to carry concealed now probably already does do, whether or not they have a permit.I don't imagine taking the permit out of that equation will change much. The biggest societal change will probably be the open carry part. It's not a big deal in Virginia, but we've had it here for a long time. In Texas, I imagine it'll be like someone's 21st birthday (alcohol age here). They'll overdo it considerably because they've been repressed, until they learn to moderate.

I mean, I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of middle aged ammosexuals doing it to own the libs as well.

May 25, 2021#352

Tinwhistler

Dei said:
I mean, I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of middle aged ammosexuals doing it to own the libs as well.

Probably. They probably don't understand that, especially in Texas, there's this thing called the "gun toting democrat". I conceal carry. I don't want to advertise that I have a weapon or where it is--the only time someone should see it would be if I ever have to use it (which is an unlikely but non-zero chance). We even have a couple subreddits for left-leaning gun owners.

I don't think it's nearly as much of a left/right issue as the right assumes.

May 25, 2021#353

Dei

Tinwhistler said:
Probably. They probably don't understand that, especially in Texas, there's this thing called the "gun toting democrat". I conceal carry. I don't want to advertise that I have a weapon or where it is--the only time someone should see it would be if I ever have to use it (which is an unlikely but non-zero chance). We even have a couple subreddits for left-leaning gun owners.

I don't think it's nearly as much of a left/right issue as the right assumes.

I agree, "The Right" is a religion at this point, and they don't understand that a lot of people don't feel the need to advertise their political leanings on a minute by minute basis.

May 25, 2021#354

Bubble181

Sorry, I did misinterpret the part about background checks. Yeah, if you're not going to require a permit to open carry, why when or how would you do a background check to allow open carry :confused:

May 25, 2021#355

GasBandit

Plus, especially in Texas, the people who shouldn't have guns... pretty much all already have them.

May 29, 2021#356

PatrThom

Dei said:
I agree, "The Right" is a religion at this point

Funny you should say this:

Gun Church That Worships With AR-15s Bought a 40-Acre Compound in Texas for Its ‘Patriots’

The Rod of Iron Ministries has become more militant since leader Hyung Jin “Sean” Moon attended the riot at the U.S. Capitol on January 6.

www.vice.com

Possibly unrelated, Iron Rod Ministries had previously released a draft of a potential constitution for the United States of Cheon Il Guk, "the Kingdom of God (and/or Heaven), a sovereign and actual nation does not yet exist in this world, but is the long awaited culmination of the End of Time as prophesied in the Biblical Scripture," a legal document that breaks down laws for taxes, militias, courts, etc., and formally recognizes Moon himself as "King of the Second Kingship of the Kingdom of God, Cheon Il Guk, as the Crowned Successor and Representative Body of the Cosmic True Parents of Heaven and Earth and full Inheritor of the Kingship of God."

Uh-oh.

--Patrick

May 29, 2021#357

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
Uh-oh.

" founded by his father, Rev. Sun Myung Moon, "

Uh-oh is right.

May 29, 2021#358

jwhouk

...Moonies with guns. Dear God.

Jun 3, 2021#359

sixpackshaker

I recently found WWSD (What Would Stoner Do) on Forgotten Weapons on YouTube. Which lead me to InRangeTV. Which led me to Brownells. Now I want to buy a $1600 rifle.

Dammit I want one. But there is a slightly cheaper version that is all right handed like a normal AR-15. I can't decide if I want to buy the cheaper one now, or wait a year for the one I want.

I have a normal "poverty pony" AR now. It hits what I point it at, but is heavier than this new toy.

I have the money now. But it is hard to move from a $500 rifle to one that is $1200 or $1600 if it ever becomes available.

Jun 5, 2021#360

sixpackshaker

I just bought the cheaper rifle... sorta.

Now I have to decide what to do with the poverty pony I have rocked for the last 4 years.

Jun 11, 2021#361

sixpackshaker

Jul 14, 2021#362

mikerc

Considering that it's illegal in the US to make a toy gun that too closely resembles a real gun, making a real gun that looks like a toy seems unwise.

Jul 14, 2021#363

blotsfan

Just as the founders intended.

Jul 14, 2021#364

drifter

I read Lego sent them a cease and desist and they’ve already stopped selling them. Kinda seems like they were just looking for some free advertising.

Jul 22, 2021#365

PatrThom

Not actually gun-related, buuuut...

Pegasus spyware seller: Blame our customers, not us, for hacking

NSO Group tells BBC News: "The finger-pointing should be at the customer."

www.bbc.com

...I 100% expect whatever gets decided as a result of this to be IMMEDIATELY brought to bear on firearms and firearm ownership.

--Patrick

Nov 3, 2021#366

Shakey

I’ve been looking for a small gun recently for a home defense/grab and go gun. I’ve recently had run ins with coyotes who aren’t very afraid of me, and meth in the area just keeps getting worse. Not to mention Covid deer. :confused:

So I want something that I can stash out of sight that I can grab quickly if needed.

What’s really frustrated me over the past year and a half is that ammo for what I have has been almost non-existent.
I have a 30-06, a 270, a 16 gauge, and a .22. 22LR is always available, but doesn’t help much. Either way, all are rifles or full size shotguns and not ideal for home defense.

So I’d like to stick with a caliber that is almost always available. Something like a 9mm or 243/556. I’ve been going back and forth between the Ruger pc carbine, and the keltec sub 2000. I’m leaning towards a 9mm carbine over a small AR because 9mm rounds seem to always be available.

Anyone have any experience with these guns? I’m leaning towards the keltec right now.

Nov 3, 2021#367

PatrThom

No experience with either, sorry. I assume this means you're living in VERY detached housing, if you're looking to feed 9mm into something that's shoulder-enabled.

--Patrick

Nov 3, 2021#368

Shakey

PatrThom said:
No experience with either, sorry. I assume this means you're living in VERY detached housing, if you're looking to feed 9mm into something that's shoulder-enabled.

--Patrick

As opposed to what? A 9mm won’t go through much. But yes, it’s a single house that’s a half mile from anyone else.

Nov 3, 2021#369

GasBandit

Shakey said:
Anyone have any experience with these guns? I’m leaning towards the keltec right now.

I don't own one, but I have heard a LOT of glowing reviews about the Kel-Tec Sub2000. I also have a cousin who owns a KSG and sings its praises loudly (I know it's a 12ga shotgun, but it speaks further to the quality of Kel-Tec firearms, and it's bullpup, not full sized).

Nov 3, 2021#370

Shakey

My only issue with shotguns is they’re only really useful after you’re too close, unless you use buckshot, and still it’s iffy.
But I was serious in the coyote problem. I was able to get within 20 yds of one last time before it took off. Which makes me question the safety of my kids playing in the yard unsupervised.

Nov 3, 2021#371

PatrThom

Shakey said:
As opposed to what? A 9mm won’t go through much.

Most "home defense" stuff is aimed (heh) at people looking for something one-handed (or else is a shotgun), so once I start seeing a stock, I start assuming your nearest neighbor isn't all that near.
I grew up on 10/22 (and Model 44), so I would personally go with the Ruger PCC just for familiarity's sake, but if you're an AK guy then there's also the AK-V. Some parts of the Internet don't seem to like the Keltec, says it's too cheap and has had some recall issues. I don't have a dog in this fight since I've had my gun purchases on pause for almost 20yrs now, but if you're deciding between those two specific models, a quick skim through the Internet makes me think the Ruger will probably serve you better in the long run.

--Patrick

Nov 4, 2021#372

Shakey

PatrThom said:
Most "home defense" stuff is aimed (heh) at people looking for something one-handed (or else is a shotgun), so once I start seeing a stock, I start assuming your nearest neighbor isn't all that near.

--Patrick

I hope that changes. A PCC isn’t going to make a 9mm go a crazy range, and you’ll at least hopefully hit what you want, which is harder with a shotgun.

Nov 4, 2021#373

PatrThom

Shakey said:
A PCC isn’t going to make a 9mm go a crazy range

I mean, they already do, assuming you can rein 'em in.

--Patrick

Nov 4, 2021#374

AshburnerX

One of the bigger draws of the Kel-tec Sub 2000 is that it accepts magazines from several 9mm or .40S&W pistol makers. If you have any of those, it might be worth getting the Kel-Tec. Expect to pay $350-600 and expect to have trouble simply finding one.

The Ruger is a bit pricer... expect $800-950 for new.

Nov 4, 2021#375

PatrThom

The Ruger can apparently accept Glock mags, but may chew them up over time if they are too soft.

--Patrick

Nov 4, 2021#376

Shakey

PatrThom said:
I mean, they already do, assuming you can rein 'em in.

--Patrick

I guess what I meant is that it’s not going to penetrate through walls more than something like buckshot, and you’re less likely to have stray lead flying through the air. But that does show part of the reason I’m going for something like this. With a carbine, it should still reliably reach out 50 or 100 yards in the open.

Nov 4, 2021#377

Shakey

AshburnerX said:
One of the bigger draws of the Kel-tec Sub 2000 is that it accepts magazines from several 9mm or .40S&W pistol makers. If you have any of those, it might be worth getting the Kel-Tec. Expect to pay $350-600 and expect to have trouble simply finding one.

The Ruger is a bit pricer... expect $800-950 for new.

I’m pretty sure my local shop has some sub 9000s. I know they have the ruger I want, and it’s marked at $750. I could only deal with gun shop talk for so long, and didn’t want to stick around to ask about the keltec.

Nov 12, 2021#378

Tinwhistler

Shotguns have gone all kinds of crazy since i was young...

Nov 12, 2021#379

DarkAudit

Tinwhistler said:
Shotguns have gone all kinds of crazy since i was young...
View attachment 39410

Really, what is the point of that besides hosing it down with testosterone?

Nov 12, 2021#380

ThatNickGuy

If you haven't heard, Jon Stewart is back with a new show, The Problem with Jon Stewart.

And this clip points out an almost direct correlation between domestic violence and mass gun violence.

Nov 12, 2021#381

Tinwhistler

DarkAudit said:
Really, what is the point of that besides hosing it down with testosterone?

Yes, it definitely looks like something that's for gun LARPers, but here are the reasons I bought it:

AR-style controls (safety, mag eject, racking slide, etc) which I'm already familiar with.
Mag-fed so I can reload or change out loads quickly and easily without having to dump a tube full of shells.
Relatively inexpensive.
Very good reviews on youtube for reliability and accuracy.
18" barrel--not so great for long distance shots, but more maneuverable in home/tight quarters
As a bullpup model, it is mostly weight-centered at the pistol grip instead of the barrel, making for faster target acquisition.
Semi-automatic, so I can get off shots without having to pump or lever between each one.
Picatinny rails mean that I can easily attach a red dot or other standard-fitting attachment.
Barrel shroud means my forward hand will feel less heat when firing.
MLoc attachment points in front mean I can add a foregrip if desired or other MLoc standard fitting attachment.
Aluminum and composite construction plus strategic cutouts makes the weapon weigh in at 7 lbs.
This one came with a variety of choke tubes and gas piston rings included, so I didn't have to worry about those purchases.

So, those were the points (besides testosterone) for me. I was less concerned with, though amused by, the Gun Bro aesthetics of the weapon.

Nov 12, 2021#382

Shakey

ThatNickGuy said:
If you haven't heard, Jon Stewart is back with a new show, The Problem with Jon Stewart.

And this clip points out an almost direct correlation between domestic violence and mass gun violence.

Like he said, it’s already illegal to own firearms if you’re convicted of domestic violence, for the exact reason he’s talking about. It’s just not enforced as well as it should be. Before considering any type of new gun restrictions, I think we need to look harder at how current laws are enforced and ensure anyone buying a gun goes through a required background check no matter how they buy them.

Nov 12, 2021#383

drifter

Tinwhistler said:
As a bullpup model, it is mostly weight-centered at the pistol grip instead of the barrel, making for faster target acquisition.

That's a bullpup? How?

Nov 12, 2021#384

Tinwhistler

drifter said:
That's a bullpup? How?

I guess it's not. The magazine is not behind the trigger. But that's how it's classified on the gun website where I researched it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The point of the weight distribution still holds.

Nov 12, 2021#385

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
If you haven't heard, Jon Stewart is back with a new show, The Problem with Jon Stewart.

I've only seen the first one so far, the one about the burn pits. It was sobering.
I've been putting off watching the rest. I really want to, though.

--Patrick

Nov 12, 2021#386

GasBandit

That is definitely not bullpup. The magazine would be in the stock, if it were.

Nov 12, 2021#387

Tinwhistler

GasBandit said:
That is definitely not bullpup. The magazine would be in the stock, if it were.

View attachment 39416

yeah, I made mention of that in my acknowledgement that @drifter was correct

Dec 11, 2021#388

figmentPez

Dec 11, 2021#389

Frank

Dang

Dec 11, 2021#390

Krisken

As predicted. The idiots on the court are the majority and didnt think things through, so now we get to see them either agree with this or completely delegitimize the court.

Fucking brilliant.

Dec 11, 2021#391

PatrThom

Oh, man.
This is one of the biggest "Wait, not like that!" I've ever seen.

--Patrick

Jan 5, 2022#392

figmentPez

Jokes aside, I'm wondering if that's true:
1-year-old accidentally shoots infant sibling, mother in Walmart parking lot, police say

Handgun kept in the car, just between the seat and the console. The infant's injury isn't life threatening, but the mother's may be.

With how bad Americans are at keeping their guns secure, I find it very plausible that toddlers are shooting people on a weekly basis.

Jan 5, 2022#393

GasBandit

Jan 5, 2022#394

Shakey

It wouldn’t surprise me. When the narrative is all about buying guns to protect your house, people are going to buy guns and leave them in easy to reach places. We don’t talk enough about securing those guns with quick access gun safes.

Jan 5, 2022#395

DarkAudit

Shakey said:
We don’t talk enough about securing those guns with quick access gun safes.

And when we do, it's about how crap those gun safes actually are. Too many LPL videos to post here proves that out.

Jan 5, 2022#396

Shakey

DarkAudit said:
And when we do, it's about how crap those gun safes actually are. Too many LPL videos to post here proves that out.

It’s more about keeping kids away from a gun than someone trying to pick a safe. A toddler won’t try to break into a gun safe, but they will grab one that’s sitting under a mattress or in a drawer.

Jan 6, 2022#397

figmentPez

Shakey said:
It’s more about keeping kids away from a gun than someone trying to pick a safe. A toddler won’t try to break into a gun safe, but they will grab one that’s sitting under a mattress or in a drawer.

Some of these gun safes could be opened by a curious grade schooler who knows nothing about lock picking.

Yeah, that might keep out a toddler, but it's still not good enough security to leave a gun within reach of children.

Jan 6, 2022#398

DarkAudit

figmentPez said:
but it's still not good enough security to leave a gun within reach of children.

My dad kept his hunting rifle and shotgun in the master bedroom closet...

The AMMO, OTOH, was on a different floor of the house entirely in a chained and padlocked steel cabinet. After he passed, we ended up cutting the chain off to open it and dispose of the contents because my mom couldn't remember the combination.

Jan 6, 2022#399

Krisken

While at my mom's house for Christmas, at one point I saw a holstered handgun sitting on the counter within reach of my 11 year old nephew. It was put there by my niece's husband. My stepfather had to privately talk to him about it.

There are idiots with guns everywhere.

Jan 6, 2022#400

Shakey

figmentPez said:
Some of these gun safes could be opened by a curious grade schooler who knows nothing about lock picking.

Yeah, that might keep out a toddler, but it's still not good enough security to leave a gun within reach of children.

I would rather have someone using a cheap safe that’s easy to break open than nothing at all. It’s the same thought behind including those cheap cable locks with guns. I’m sure any curious kid could find the keys for them and open them up, but there are a lot of people who wouldn’t have used a lock at all if it wasn’t included.

Personally I have my guns in one safe, and the ammo in another.

Jan 26, 2022#401

PatrThom

San Jose passes first U.S. law requiring gun owners to get liability insurance and pay annual fee

They'd also have to pay an annual fee. But opponents promised to fight the measure in court. People on both sides of the issue spoke at length before the vote was taken.

www.cbsnews.com

No idea if this is an offshoot of Gov Newsome's threat, above, or something completely separate.
It's definitely a poke at the local v. state v. fed beehive, though.

--Patrick

Jan 26, 2022#402

HCGLNS

So only rich people will have guns? Sounds like a far right wet dream.

Jan 26, 2022#403

Frank

It's like 25 dollars a year. What even is this?

Jan 26, 2022#404

PatrThom

Frank said:
It's like 25 dollars a year.

The annual fee, maybe, but the liability insurance? Oof, probably higher. Much higher.

--Patrick

Jan 27, 2022#405

Bubble181

PatrThom said:
The annual fee, maybe, but the liability insurance? Oof, probably higher. Much higher.

--Patrick

Dunno...if you believe the NRA numbers, cars are way more deadly than guns and more likely to be involved in accidents, so liability insurance would be lower than car insurance. Of course, whether insurance brokers will use those numbers or, y'know, the real ones, is another matter. But that's just the Free Market in action baby!

Jan 27, 2022#406

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
whether insurance brokers will use those numbers or, y'know, the real ones, is another matter.

My assumption is that California will mandate a certain minimum level of coverage. A somewhat expensive minimum. One that will be enough of an onus that ownership will be significantly curtailed, but which will technically not count as "infringement."

--Patrick

Jan 27, 2022#407

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
One that will be enough of an onus that ownership will be significantly curtailed

That's what infringed means.

Six years ago this would have been a major constitutional crisis. But the constitution is now basically in tatters anyway, so we will see if anybody even bothers to point out the flagrant violation of the second amendment.

Jan 27, 2022#408

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
That's what infringed means.

Oh, I know. But barriers that are solely financial in nature have been upheld before. Repeatedly.
2A unfortunately doesn't guarantee possession, it merely guarantees the opportunity to possess -- i.e., 2A is not "You get a gun! And you get a gun! Everyone gets a gun, line forms here!" instead it is "You are allowed to have a gun...subject to all these sufficiently-onerous-but-not-quite-meeting-the-legal-definition-of-infringing requirements, of course."

So far as I know, you and I are actually in agreement (or close enough, anyway) as to what it SHOULD mean, but of course that's not the reality.

--Patrick

Jan 27, 2022#409

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Oh, I know. But barriers that are solely financial in nature have been upheld before. Repeatedly.
2A unfortunately doesn't guarantee possession, it merely guarantees the opportunity to possess -- i.e., 2A is not "You get a gun! And you get a gun! Everyone gets a gun, line forms here!" instead it is "You are allowed to have a gun...subject to all these sufficiently-onerous-but-not-quite-meeting-the-legal-definition-of-infringing requirements, of course."

So far as I know, you and I are actually in agreement (or close enough, anyway) as to what it SHOULD mean, but of course that's not the reality.

--Patrick

I've made that same presentation when people were talking about things like the right to food, the right to water, the right to health care. It didn't go over well.

Jan 27, 2022#410

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
It didn't go over well.

It never does, with the temporarily embarrassed.

--Patrick

Jan 27, 2022#411

Bubble181

While I'm obviously of the opinion the whole 2A is a horrible mess that's going to lead straight to CW2 being a victory for the racist conservative idiot side, and that proper weapon control and training and all that are necessary, I do agree that placing financial burdens in between that make it harder are pretty much the description of infringement. It's like saying you have a right to vote, but you'll have to take a day off from work, travel 2 hours, wait in line for 2 hours, and oh yeah, register and get a photo ID at least a month beforehand. Of course, such a thing would never happen, we all know everyone is completely free to easily, cheaply and quickly vote. Phew.

Jan 27, 2022#412

GasBandit

Bubble181 said:
While I'm obviously of the opinion the whole 2A is a horrible mess that's going to lead straight to CW2 being a victory for the racist conservative idiot side, and that proper weapon control and training and all that are necessary, I do agree that placing financial burdens in between that make it harder are pretty much the description of infringement. It's like saying you have a right to vote, but you'll have to take a day off from work, travel 2 hours, wait in line for 2 hours, and oh yeah, register and get a photo ID at least a month beforehand. Of course, such a thing would never happen, we all know everyone is completely free to easily, cheaply and quickly vote. Phew.

That raises another thing in my mind, another example of the law of unintended consequences.

As Bubble so anviliciously points out, this is the 2A version of a poll tax.

It was shown that poll taxes disproportionately disenfranchise the poor, ergo becoming an infringement upon the voting rights of minorities.

So by the same logic, it could be said that the pragmatic effect of gun liability insurance will be to disarm minorities.

Which I'm sure will be of great comfort to the badged klansmen in blue.

Jan 27, 2022#413

Tinwhistler

GasBandit said:
That raises another thing in my mind, another example of the law of unintended consequences.

As Bubble so anviliciously points out, this is the 2A version of a poll tax.

It was shown that poll taxes disproportionately disenfranchise the poor, ergo becoming an infringement upon the voting rights of minorities.

So by the same logic, it could be said that the pragmatic effect of gun liability insurance will be to disarm minorities.

Which I'm sure will be of great comfort to the badged klansmen in blue.

There have been a few articles in the news as of late equating gun control and racism.

The very racist history of gun control - The Boston Globe

The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is indispensable to Black equality.

www.bostonglobe.com

Gun control and its racist roots

From the beginnings of America, the gun issue’s been in play. Gun control laws were put in place, mainly to keep firearms out of the hands of Blacks.

www.lcsun-news.com

How Second Amendment gun rights fall short for African Americans

Nothing in the Constitution restricts gun ownership by ethnicity. But in reality, the Second Amendment doesn’t apply equally to people of color, who are often killed while trying to fully exercise their right to “keep and bear Arms.”

chicago.suntimes.com

Jan 27, 2022#414

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
That raises another thing in my mind, another example of the law of unintended consequences.
As Bubble so anviliciously points out, this is the 2A version of a poll tax.

I thought this was immediately obvious. Whenever you attach a requirement to any "Right," it ceases to be a Right and instead becomes a division between the "haves" and the "have-nots," where your dividing line is money, transportation, freedom to reproduce, whatever.

--Patrick

Jan 29, 2022#415

figmentPez

They punished the gun.

Jan 29, 2022#416

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
They punished the gun.

This may come as a shock to you, but that is standard procedure in 38 out of the 50 states. All of the bad, naughty guns must be destroyed so that only the well-behaved, responsible guns may breed.

--Patrick

Jan 29, 2022#417

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
This may come as a shock to you, but that is standard procedure in 38 out of the 50 states. All of the bad, naughty guns must be destroyed so that only the well-behaved, responsible guns may breed.

Honestly, I can see good reason for it. Especially in this case, since if it weren't destroyed it would become a collector's item.

However, it is rather ironic given "guns don't kill people, people kill people". If the gun is innocent, why is it the only one being punished?

Jan 29, 2022#418

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
it would become a collector's item.

*Relic

figmentPez said:
it is rather ironic given "guns don't kill people, people kill people". If the gun is innocent, why is it the only one being punished?

I could not agree more with this. If I steal a gun out of someone’s prized collection and murder someone with it, they are technically supposed to destroy it, even if it’s some rare $200k collector’s model. That’s such a waste.

—Patrick

Jan 31, 2022#419

Frank

Jan 31, 2022#420

GasBandit

IMO that should count as premeditated.

Jan 31, 2022#421

Frank

He was released at the scene.

Jan 31, 2022#422

Bubble181

From the look of it, that's not "a road rage incident", that's "a drive-by shooting".

Obviously that kind of laws are different over there, but here in BE? That would 100% be premeditated murder. He was in no danger, wasn't defending himself, had no reason to fear for his life, never tried to de-escalate, and wasn't just "responding wirth similar weapons". going from nothing to "I pull out my gun and start shooting5-6 times" is deliberate, and either with intent to kill, or with a total lack of responsibility and awareness that a gun is a deadly weapon.
It's like having a road rage incident with a pedestrian, then getting into your car, driving off, making an about turn, and deliberately running the pedestrian down.

Post automatically merged: Jan 31, 2022

Frank said:
He was released at the scene.

Well, yeah, he's white.

Jan 31, 2022#423

GasBandit

Even in Texas that would be a premeditated Drive By.

But it happened in Florida, so I guess it is a misdemeanor moving violation.

Jan 31, 2022#424

Bubble181

After reading more - attempted murder, since apparently there were no injuries.

"he trew a water bottle at me, so I thought I was being shot, so I shot back". Man, you can hear and see the "bottle thrown" in the video. BS that that sounded anything like a gunshot. And even if it DID, your first guess should probably be "oh no, a tire blew out/a car backfired" and not "random other driver is shooting me". Also, the whole video shows him looking into his armrest, the radio, to the left, to the right, pretty much anywhere but the damn road. Argh.

Jan 31, 2022#425

GasBandit

Yeah, it took him a solid 45 seconds to get his gun out of the center console. That is more than enough time to realize he's not being shot at, even if it were NOT something as obviously-not-a-gunshot as a water bottle.

Jan 31, 2022#426

Ravenpoe

Frank said:

Is this road rage? It's hard to tell, it kinda looks like the other car fires once and breaks his window before he starts firing. Why does this guy have a gun safe in his center console? Is he off duty cop? A drug dealer? Just a 2a nut?

This video is crazy and needs context

Jan 31, 2022#427

Ravenpoe

Also, he's in a car, you can just drive away and de-escalate without trying to kill people

Jan 31, 2022#428

Tress

Ravenpoe said:
Is this road rage? It's hard to tell, it kinda looks like the other car fires once and breaks his window before he starts firing. Why does this guy have a gun safe in his center console? Is he off duty cop? A drug dealer? Just a 2a nut?

This video is crazy and needs context

There is a link to an article with the tweet.
1) The other car does not fire anything; the other driver came up next to him, cursed at him, and threw a water bottle. This driver responded a few seconds later by shooting. According to the article, there is adequate time between the water bottle being thrown and the shooting for this driver to realize he wasn’t in danger.
2) No one knows why he had the gun safe in his console. He was a civilian investigator for the local fire department (but he resigned after being arrested).

Jan 31, 2022#429

Ravenpoe

Tress said:
There is a link to an article with the tweet.
1) The other car does not fire anything; the other driver came up next to him, cursed at him, and threw a water bottle. This driver responded a few seconds later by shooting. According to the article, there is adequate time between the water bottle being thrown and the shooting for this driver to realize he wasn’t in danger.
2) No one knows why he had the gun safe in his console. He was a civilian investigator for the local fire department (but he resigned after being arrested).

Ok, so crazy 2a guy that just really wanted to shoot someone

Feb 1, 2022#430

PatrThom

Ravenpoe said:
Ok, so crazy 2a guy that just really wanted to shoot someone

"Finally! No longer will I be simply be a Good Guy, now I will be a Good Guy With A Gun!"

--Patrick

Feb 9, 2022#431

PatrThom

So the latest points-to-this-while-screaming-ban-all-guns news story is:
Convicted felon jailed for loading gun and pulling trigger inside Kennewick store.
Dude walked in and asked to handle a firearm, then loaded it and pointed it at staffers while pulling the trigger. Idiot.
If nothing else, it will definitely change how these stores handle things when a customer asks to examine the merchandise.

--Patrick

Feb 9, 2022#432

Bubble181

I think I've seen at least half a dozen movies where a pro- or antagonist gets their hands on a gun that way or robs a shop that way. I always assumed no gun shop owner would ever be stupid enough to hand over both a live gun AND fitting bullets to the same customer. I mean, I can understand someone wanting to BUY both at the same time - and even so I'd say, hey, maybe keep the gun locked in something that'll take a few minutes to open when you hand it over. "I have no money and I'm not a customer yet, but would you mind handing me a loaded gun (or a gun and ammo for it and some time) so I can rob you" is.....Oy.

Feb 9, 2022#433

PatrThom

My assumption (because it's not mentioned in the articles) is that the person brought in their own (fortunately dud) ammo.

--Patrick

Feb 9, 2022#434

GasBandit

Given how many Trump signs I have seen in the windows of gun stores, I think giving some of these people credit for common sense is a bit of a stretch..

I wonder if this guy was trying to commit suicide by opening fire in a gun store, and left disappointed because nobody shot back.

Feb 9, 2022#435

sixpackshaker

Or was it that he's institutionalized? And wanted to commit a serious enough of a crime to go away for life without doing any physical harm.

Feb 9, 2022#436

PatrThom

Article says it turns out he's a convicted felon, but I didn't look up what it is he was convicted of.

--Patrick

Feb 9, 2022#437

sixpackshaker

Burglary 7 years ago.

Feb 9, 2022#438

Tinwhistler

GasBandit said:
Given how many Trump signs I have seen in the windows of gun stores, I think giving some of these people credit for common sense is a bit of a stretch..

I wonder if this guy was trying to commit suicide by opening fire in a gun store, and left disappointed because nobody shot back.

yeah, because every gun store I've ever shopped at, every employee has had a sidearm on their hip. I was trying to imagine a scenario where I got rounds into a magazine, and then the magazine into a weapon without having a half-dozen pistols pulled on me before I completed the task.

Feb 9, 2022#439

sixpackshaker

Tinwhistler said:
yeah, because every gun store I've ever shopped at, every employee has had a sidearm on their hip. I was trying to imagine a scenario where I got rounds into a magazine, and then the magazine into a weapon without having a half-dozen pistols pulled on me before I completed the task.

Looks like a department store.

Feb 14, 2022#440

Tinwhistler

Funny conversation I had on r/liberalgunowners

Feb 23, 2022#441

figmentPez

Guns killed more people than automobiles in the United States during 2018

Automobiles used to be the leading cause of traumatic injury in the US, but now firearms are.

Feb 23, 2022#442

Bubble181

While I'm all in favor of gun legislation, the firearm numbers is almost 50% suicides. Yes, guns lower the threshold and make it easier to take your own life "on a whim", but still - a large part of those would have tried without a gun, too.

Feb 23, 2022#443

Ravenpoe

Bubble181 said:
While I'm all in favor of gun legislation, the firearm numbers is almost 50% suicides. Yes, guns lower the threshold and make it easier to take your own life "on a whim", but still - a large part of those would have tried without a gun, too.

There's actually a lot of data on that, which I'm currently too tired to research to give proper numbers and citations, but the gist is pretty simple. Risk of suicide is substantially higher among those who own a gun, and those who attempt suicide by gun generally succeed, while those who attempt via other means usually turn out to be nonfatal.

Feb 23, 2022#444

Bubble181

Ravenpoe said:
There's actually a lot of data on that, which I'm currently too tired to research to give proper numbers and citations, but the gist is pretty simple. Risk of suicide is substantially higher among those who own a gun, and those who attempt suicide by gun generally succeed, while those who attempt via other means usually turn out to be nonfatal.

Yeah, I know, I recognize that. it's, you know, the bit "guns lower the threshold and make it easier", up there :-P

Still, if you subscribe to "guns don't kill people, people kill people" that means suicides as well. It's (partially) bunk, but still.

Anyway, my point was, most people will not consider suicides-by-gun as "gun violence deaths". And up to a point I agree - it's definitely not a one-to-one comparison.
The comparison is always a bit off - by far most car fatalities aren't deliberate, but accidental (I assume. I haven't heard of a vehicular manslaughter epidemic). For guns, this is not true - there are plenty of accidents, but the majority of problematic deaths are not. If gun deaths were just accidents while cleaning or training, there wouldn't be as much debate.

Feb 23, 2022#445

Tinwhistler

It's worth noting that in 2018, driving deaths were also down by about 2000.

Feb 23, 2022#446

blotsfan

I would assume covid has had quite an impact on car deaths too.

Feb 23, 2022#447

Frank

I'd assume Covid is also adding to those suicide by gun numbers as well.

Feb 23, 2022#448

figmentPez

Frank said:
I'd assume Covid is also adding to those suicide by gun numbers as well.

From the article, " That said, suicides in general seem to have actually lowered during the first year of the pandemic, and gun violence may have declined in 2021."

While the pandemic has added stress and disruption to a lot of lives, it has also reduced stress in other ways. I saw an article recently that claimed one in three teenagers reported better mental health during the pandemic, because of less social stress and bullying while they weren't attending classes in person.

Mar 11, 2022#449

Tinwhistler

To bring this a little back to the "all your guns" topic... But only a little, because this is ammo, not guns.

May 8, 2022#450

PatrThom

New Hampshire HB1178 | 2022 | Regular Session

Bill Text (2022-06-29) Prohibiting the state from enforcing any federal statute, regulation, or Presidential Executive Order that restricts or regulates the right of the people to keep and bear arms. [Signed by Governor Sununu 06/24/2022; Chapter 258; eff. 6/24/2022 House Journal 14]

legiscan.com

This bill prohibits the state of New Hampshire, a political subdivision of this state, or any person acting under the color of state, county, or municipal law from using any personnel or financial resources to enforce, administer, or cooperate with any law, act, rule, order, or regulation of the United States Government or Executive Order of the President of the United States that is inconsistent with any law of this state regarding the regulation of firearms, ammunition, magazines or the ammunition feeding devices, firearm components, firearms supplies, or knives.

Hmm I wonder where this could be going.

--Patrick

May 22, 2022#451

Frank

My brother and his wife are in France right now and while helping his mother in law clean out her attic they found a case with a broomhandle Mauser, a Luger and an American 44 magnum of some variety, all from WW2 and in fantastic condition. She gave them to him.

Now this is both rad and funny because you literally cannot own a Mauser in Canada. The only way that gun is getting into this country is on the way to a museum.

I'm jealous AF because playing with a full auto Mauser would be so much fun.

Jun 3, 2022#452

Tinwhistler

only took about 18 months from the time the money came out of my pocket...but finally

Jun 3, 2022#453

Ravenpoe

Tinwhistler said:
only took about 18 months from the time the money came out of my pocket...but finally

View attachment 41679

Aren't they actually called suppressors?

Jun 3, 2022#454

Tinwhistler

Ravenpoe said:
Aren't they actually called suppressors?

Silencer vs Suppressor

You can call a suppressor a silencer, and a silencer a suppressor. Read on to learn about the great debate of silencer vs suppressor now.

www.silencershop.com

TLDR: Suppressor is more accurate. The guy who invented the thing called it a 'silencer' and that's the term used on all government forms. Both words name the same thing.

Jun 3, 2022#455

ThatNickGuy

Now I'm trying to imagine a comic book called Silencer vs Suppressor.

Jun 3, 2022#456

PatrThom

"Stop! Stop! It's already dead!"
ACKACKACK "...WHAAAT???" ACKACKACKACKACKACK...

--Patrick

Jun 29, 2022#457

figmentPez

California gun owners' personal information exposed in data breach

I find it highly likely the NRA is behind this, so they can use it as an example why gun licenses shouldn't exist at all.

Jun 29, 2022#458

PatrThom

I wonder if it was done more as a way to make it easier for the loudmouthed, fetishist gun owners to "shame" the more reserved ones.
"My Facebooks are full of pictures of my Mini-14 all swaddled up and in a crib, how come you don't have any baby pictures?"
"Well, you see, I believe guns are tools to be respe..."
"YER ONE O' THEM LIBERAL PANSIES, AINTCHA!"

--Patrick

Jul 2, 2022#459

Tinwhistler

Just right at about 18 months from order to delivery. But it's here!

Jul 2, 2022#460

Krisken

Tinwhistler said:
View attachment 41915

Just right at about 18 months from order to delivery. But it's here!

ok, WTF am I looking at?

Jul 2, 2022#461

GasBandit

Krisken said:
ok, WTF am I looking at?

His oft mentioned and long-awaited suppressor, I assume

Jul 2, 2022#462

Krisken

GasBandit said:
His oft mentioned and long-awaited suppressor, I assume

Ah, thank you, I appreciate it.

Jul 2, 2022#463

Tinwhistler

Krisken said:
ok, WTF am I looking at?

GasBandit said:
His oft mentioned and long-awaited suppressor, I assume

Yup. Banish 30 multi-caliber suppressor.

Banish 30 – Silencer Central

Shipped to YOUR Front Door. America’s Best Selling Multicaliber 100% Titanium User Serviceable Silencer. Tested Quietest. Lightest. Pay While You Wait!

www.silencercentral.com

Jul 3, 2022#464

blotsfan

With the spool I thought that was a mini cannon.

Jul 3, 2022#465

Krisken

blotsfan said:
With the spool I thought that was a mini cannon.

Lol, right? I was like "That can't be a cannon".

Jul 3, 2022#466

Tinwhistler

blotsfan said:
With the spool I thought that was a mini cannon.

Lol, I just wanted to prop it up so it had some depth in the photo. I had the spool of lycra elastic (which I've been putting in the crochet shorts) handy.

Jul 3, 2022#467

GasBandit

Tinwhistler said:
Lol, I just wanted to prop it up so it had some depth in the photo. I had the spool of lycra elastic (which I've been putting in the crochet shorts) handy.

That'll teach you not to use a banana for scale!

Jul 20, 2022#468

figmentPez

Robot dog now has a gun.

Jul 20, 2022#469

Tress

figmentPez said:
Robot dog now has a gun.

Coming soon:

Sep 14, 2022#470

figmentPez

The Slow Mo Guys try to fire a bullet by hitting the primer cap with a smaller bullet.

Sep 15, 2022#471

figmentPez

Gun buyback programs are facing issues with 3D printed gun parts.

Sep 15, 2022#472

PatrThom

It’s the cobra problem all over again.

—Patrick

Oct 21, 2022#473

PatrThom

Reposting this here because.

HCGLNS said:
Huh, Canada just blanket banned handguns. As of today handguns are frozen in place save for a select few exemptions.

Canada bans new handgun sales in latest gun control action

Regulations prohibiting the sale, purchase or transfer of handguns within Canada took effect on Friday, as Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the measure builds on earlier efforts banning handgun imports.

www.reuters.com

The world will watch with great interest.

—Patrick

Oct 21, 2022#474

HCGLNS

PatrThom said:
Reposting this here because.

Canada bans new handgun sales in latest gun control action

Regulations prohibiting the sale, purchase or transfer of handguns within Canada took effect on Friday, as Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the measure builds on earlier efforts banning handgun imports.

www.reuters.com

The world will watch with great interest.

—Patrick

Not really, it's ridiculously difficult to legally own a handgun in Canada. This affects almost no one.

Dec 7, 2022#475

PatrThom

Interesting. And more than a little irreverent.

--Patrick

Feb 11, 2023#476

figmentPez

Man dies after being shot by his own gun because he refused to take it off his person before entering a room with an MRI machine.

"When the machine was turned on, the magnetic force pulled de Novaes’ gun from his waistband and it discharged, the bullet striking him in the abdomen."

Feb 11, 2023#477

Krisken

figmentPez said:
Man dies after being shot by his own gun because he refused to take it off his person before entering a room with an MRI machine.

"When the machine was turned on, the magnetic force pulled de Novaes’ gun from his waistband and it discharged, the bullet striking him in the abdomen."

This feels like a Darwin Award contender.

Feb 11, 2023#478

PatrThom

As I replied elsewhere: "In São Paulo, Brazil, gun jumps you!"

--Patrick

Feb 21, 2023#479

figmentPez

God dammit, Texas. Stop being such an embarrassment.

Rising Star Superintendent resigns after leaving firearm unattended in bathroom for 3rd grader to find

"Last week, Superintendent Stuteville confirmed a 3rd grader found his gun in the bathroom at Rising Star Elementary School back in January and notified a teacher immediately without moving or touching the weapon.

"Stuteville walked KTAB and KRBC through the incident, explaining that both he and the school principal open carry on campus.

"When he was using the restroom, Stuteville says he took the gun off and placed it in a stall, where it was then left unattended for around 15 minutes until it was found by the student.

"Parents of students involved in the incident say that this student returned to the classroom and notified the teacher, who sent a 2nd student into the bathroom to confirm it was a real gun.

“ 'There was never a danger other than the obvious,' Stuteville claimed."

Feb 21, 2023#480

Bubble181

“ 'There was never a danger other than the obvious,' Stuteville claimed."

... The obvious being reckless child endangerment, irresponsible handling of a firearm, and gross negligence?

Feb 21, 2023#481

Ravenpoe

Bubble181 said:
... The obvious being reckless child endangerment, irresponsible handling of a firearm, and gross negligence?

There is nothing wrong here other than everything obviously wrong

Feb 21, 2023#482

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
... The obvious being reckless child endangerment, irresponsible handling of a firearm, and gross negligence?

Some people need to have the obvious pointed out to them.

--Patrick

Feb 21, 2023#483

GasBandit

"There was no danger other than the obvious" could literally be applied to any situation, regardless of danger level.

"I lit a match, there was no danger other than the obvious."

"Standing in the middle of the concert, I put the match to the fuse of the dynamite sewn into my vest. There was no danger other than the obvious."

Feb 21, 2023#484

Bubble181

No, you know what, at first I agreed, but then I thought about it, and it isn't always true.
If you're lighting the first to your bomb vest, there's the obvious danger, but perhaps in fact everyone will be dead from the toxic fumes released by the fuse before you even explode because you made it out of something ridiculously toxic, and nobody thought of that. Ok, bad example, whatever. There are cases where a danger presents itself other than the obvious one, and I don't necessarily mean something completely unrelated (while you're lighting the fuse the roof collapses) or SPANISH INQUISITION. Could be something noone could've known about beforehand.

Still, it's a useless and content-free statement.

Feb 21, 2023#485

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
it's a useless and content-free statement.

It’s useless because it attempts to reframe the relationship between the act and “danger” like those equations that try to prove that 1 is equal to 0 through a series of mathematical transformations that reach their conclusion through an illegal operation (dividing by zero) but which hope you just don’t notice that part.

—Patrick

Feb 22, 2023#486

figmentPez

Alabama Representative Barry Moore has introduced a bill to make the AR-15 the "National Gun of America" (Newsweek article)

This is also the guy who co-sponsored the bill to end the Department of Education.

Feb 22, 2023#487

HCGLNS

figmentPez said:
Alabama Representative Barry Moore has introduced a bill to make the AR-15 the "National Gun of America" (Newsweek article)

This is also the guy who co-sponsored the bill to end the Department of Education.

I thought it was the M1 Garand already.

Feb 22, 2023#488

Tress

If America was to declare a "National Gun" it should be a Smith & Wesson. Then it would be for an American company, not just a general model or style of gun. And S&W was instrumental in American history, second only to Colt in terms of impact. I could see an argument for the ArmaLite AR-15, but I still think the legacy of S&W is much more important.

Feb 25, 2023#489

figmentPez

Republicans sure love to break the law whenever it's convenient for them.

Apr 21, 2023#490

BErt

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free steak..."

May 5, 2023#491

figmentPez

May 16, 2023#492

figmentPez

Texas boy, 12, charged with murder over shooting of Sonic Drive-In employee

Details are sparse on what the relationship is between the 12 year old and the the 20 year old who was driving, and caused the disturbance, but from what I've read the Sonic employee, Matthew Davis, was asking the 20 year-old to stop urinating in the parking lot, and when the altercation got physical the 12 year-old shot him with a rifle, firing at least six shots.

Jun 22, 2023#493

Bubble181

Two year old shoots mom and unborn child

A two-year-old accidentally gets access to a loaded gun, plays with it, shoots pregnant mom, mom and unborn baby die.
Baby gate and door to the bedroom were "accidentally" left open.

1. Your gun shouldn't be loaded and in the open
2. Your gun should not be accessible to children by "just happening to leave the bedroom door open"
3. Your trigger shouldn't be so easily pulled that a 2-year-old can do it.

"Guns don't kill people, irresponsible people not properly handling and securing their guns kill people".

Jun 22, 2023#494

PatrThom

#3 likely means it was stored cocked, which is bad for the gun mechanism AND for people nearby.

—Patrick

Jun 22, 2023#495

Shakey

PatrThom said:
#3 likely means it was stored cocked, which is bad for the gun mechanism AND for people nearby.

—Patrick

Many handguns, particularly Glocks, don’t really have a safety or any cocking mechanism. If it’s loaded, it will fire.

I think one of the most dangerous narratives going around the pro-gun circles is that seconds matter in a home invasion and having your gun locked up means you might as well not have one at all. There’s plenty of good fast access safes available now that can easily prevent this.

Jun 22, 2023#496

Ravenpoe

Shakey said:
Many handguns, particularly Glocks, don’t really have a safety or any cocking mechanism. If it’s loaded, it will fire.

I think one of the most dangerous narratives going around the pro-gun circles is that seconds matter in a home invasion and having your gun locked up means you might as well not have one at all. There’s plenty of good fast access safes available now that can easily prevent this.

Or you can just get a dog

Jun 22, 2023#497

Shakey

Ravenpoe said:
Or you can just get a dog

Well sure, there’s a lot of better ways to protect yourself from imaginary threats, but it’s America!

Jun 22, 2023#498

PatrThom

Shakey said:
Many handguns, particularly Glocks, don’t really have a safety or any cocking mechanism. If it’s loaded, it will fire.

Yes…IF the person pulling the trigger has sufficient strength to overcome the trigger’s “weight.” SAO/DAO models aside, that means the first trigger pull will be noticeably more difficult than the ones that follow, as that first pull has to overcome spring pressure to move all of the mechanical bits into firing position before it can drop the hammer to fire that first round. This can easily require 12-15lbs of exertion. Most will then divert some of the gas flow from that fired round to power the work of setting up the firing position again, which means the only work required to pull the trigger the next time is the effort required to release the hammer, which can be as little as 3-5lbs. You might see this listed as “double-action first pull, single-action thereafter.”
But because of that whole “I must be ready for that first shot!” mentality, too many people leave their gun cocked and ready to fire, entirely skipping that first “heavier” pull.

—Patrick

Jun 22, 2023#499

Shakey

PatrThom said:
Yes…IF the person pulling the trigger has sufficient strength to overcome the trigger’s “weight.” SAO/DAO models aside, that means the first trigger pull will be noticeably more difficult than the ones that follow, as that first pull has to overcome spring pressure to move all of the mechanical bits into firing position before it can drop the hammer to fire that first round. This can easily require 12-15lbs of exertion. Most will then divert some of the gas flow from that fired round to power the work of setting up the firing position again, which means the only work required to pull the trigger the next time is the effort required to release the hammer, which can be as little as 3-5lbs. You might see this listed as “double-action first pull, single-action thereafter.”
But because of that whole “I must be ready for that first shot!” mentality, too many people leave their gun cocked and ready to fire, entirely skipping that first “heavier” pull.

—Patrick

Right, what I’m saying though is that many handguns are striker fired now and will have about a 5 pound trigger weight all the time. There is no cocking or de-cocking the hammer.

Jun 22, 2023#500

ThatNickGuy

Shakey said:
Well sure, there’s a lot of better ways to protect yourself from imaginary threats, but it’s America!

If I had it in my budget, I'd protect myself with a robotic Richard Simmons.

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