Its difficult to judge just how much Gandalf is able to foresee. Its possible he knew events would transpire just as they had, or atleast that he had the same sort of unclear foresight he exhibited in Lord of the Rings when he told Frodo that Gollum still had some part to play.
[Movies] Star Wars vs Lord of the Rings: FIGHT!
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Because somebody has to:
In real life, you can join up with the U.S. Army and fight against insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan.
In real life a farmer's son could travel to New York City, and get caught up in the mob - living the live like in Goodfellas.
My point is if you live as an average schmuck in this reality, you would do the same shit in another one. I'm no exception, which is why I would choose the Star Trek universe. The average shit thing to do in Star Trek is to go to space and have sex with sexy aliens.
Added at: 22:26
Yes sir. It's easy to imagine that these fantasy worlds offer something better than this reality because you're looking at them through the eyes of the people having the adventure.
Added at: 22:28
Yeah, I think the wisdom of Gandalf is portrayed to be so great that it can probably almost be mistaken for foresight.
We wouldn't but this brings up another reason we'd all rather live in the Star Wars universe. They have great technology and surely the internet exists there. We would all be on some futuristic space version of Halforums complaining about how the Darth Vader documentary was nothing more than propaganda and throwing props to Anon for disabling the Deathstar. In LotR's universe we'd all be working in some cornfield cursing the gods for our 200 year life span.
@ Mathias - Negative. There is less law and order in the world of LotR than there is IRL. There are also magical elements that can be studied and learned, magical items that can be procured and such. None of which exist in our world. We are mundane because our world is mundane. I'm not in the military because I was turned away. I'm not on the police force because I find that type of authority completely against my nature. I live a life of "average schmuck" here because the world around me is "average".
You're wrong.
The magical elements that exist in Middle Earth belong to the Elves, the 5 Wizards, rare human nobility (Dunedain), and various other demi-Gods. You could not study them. You could not master them as a human. These powers were granted to very specific races.
There is plenty of law and order in LotR. The whole damn book is riddled with moral code and honor. If there is anything more despised in the universe of Lord of the Rings it's the chaotic - represented as Sauron himself. Oh and one of the major themes of the novel is how orthodox it was that a hum-drum hobbit like Frodo was the savior of all. Chances of having a grand adventure in Middle Earth = slim to none. Chances of toiling away on a farm in the West Fold for the rest of your days, or working as a merchant in Minas Tirith? All sources point to yes. Why bother with day dreaming? Go to the midwest and strap on your farmer hat.
Oh shit, I almost forgot. If you're existing during the War of the Ring, as a human: if you live in Rohan, you pretty much get the Bosnian or Somali treatment; if you live in Gondor, you're pretty much hanging out on the Gaza strip.
Actually i'm pretty sure it's implied that magic can be done by anyone with the right knowledge, it's just that said knowledge is very hard to come by, and as with all power tends to corrupt (you mentioned the Dunedain?), so the valar don't share it much any more. Sauron on the other hand gives it to those that are useful to him, while enslaving them...
I mean the elves don't have any magic artifacts that pre-date going to Valinor.
And let's be honest, Shego would go sorceror on us, and Mumakil stomp people for shit and giggles...
Yes the Dunedain are one of the few human races in Middle Earth that posses hereditary magical ability. Aragorn is able to heal the sick for example.
The valar and maiar are the only ones that poses true "magic" so to speak. I didn't want to get technical so I just used the term demi-Gods. And Sauron does all the magic with the rings; not the wraths. The population of mankind itself does not possess any magical ability. There are no human wizards in Middle Earth. The only thing a human could do is maybe wield an Elven blade in battle (if that), or find some mithril and forge it into a armor. Nope, wait, they can't even do that as the elves and dwarves are the only races that have mastered smelting it.
Are there ways the average Joe can stumble upon magical shit in LotR? Yes. Is it a common occurrence? Nope. Not at all. Shego would not be a sorcerer. At best, she'd be a thief. Like I mentioned earlier, the LotR has a strict honor and moral code associated with nobility. If she's not a murderous thief in our universe because she's afraid of prison, she'd fair no better in Middle Earth.
Anyway, my point is that if you're not Indiana Jones in this universe, chances are you wouldn't get off your family farm in Middle Earth, or leave your birth planet in the Star Wars universe. With Star Trek, joining the Federation is pretty much akin to going to college today.
I am! Thanks!
I'll take Star Wars... I'd rather live a normal life expectancy with access to medical droids, than have a short, brutish life...
If it meant there would be no LotR books too, then I'd give up SW. Otherwise, LotR movies can go.
Mathias, for the most part, is actually right though. Most people would reflect themselves equally in the fantasy world as their real world counter parts. Would I be a sorceror? Maybe not, maybe I would. Who's to say how and to whom I would have been born to? How I would have been raised, where it would have occured and what life choices I would have been given. It boils down to basically what kind of person you are "inside" not what your enviroment has created for you. Most people wouldn't become sorcerors/thieves/murderers in the fantasy world for reasons tied more to who they are at a base level than based on how their enviroment shaped them in the real world. Most would be happy to live out fruitful lives with loved ones and friends, enjoying the fruits of simple labor.
I can only speak for myself in the sense that deep down, if the options were available to me, I'd be making every single effort to grasp at any kind of power that would give me a real advantage over others. In an enviroment where there is no "current technology" crime labs, it'd be much like the early 1900s were here. With the right motivation and access to tools, serial killers and thieves livedand thrived for decades without being caught (See Carl Panzram or Albert Fish for reference) if they were caught at all. Add to that magical weapons/clothing spread throughout the realm and you have the potential for real carnage.
Which basically brings me to my point. Would I be some all powerful supreme leader of Evil? In a "realistic" sense? Probably not, unless birth/race/luck rolled dice in my favor. Otherwise I'd probably be a gleefull mass murderer, happily living out my days slitting throats, raping and torturing till I either retired wealthy from the right kill (rich landowner, taking all their possesions) or dying horribly to attacking the wrong target. Either way my life would be the free daydream become reality I imagine it would be. The end result mostly hinging on how much training I would be able to absorb at a young age from various non-savory types and if I were able to come into possesion of any kind of magical artifact.
@Dave - There are no holodecks in Star Wars. You're thinking Trek.
I can only speak for myself in the sense that deep down, if the options were available to me, I'd be making every single effort to grasp at any kind of power that would give me a real advantage over others. In an enviroment where there is no "current technology" crime labs, it'd be much like the early 1900s were here. With the right motivation and access to tools, serial killers and thieves livedand thrived for decades without being caught (See Carl Panzram or Albert Fish for reference) if they were caught at all. Add to that magical weapons/clothing spread throughout the realm and you have the potential for real carnage.
Which basically brings me to my point. Would I be some all powerful supreme leader of Evil? In a "realistic" sense? Probably not, unless birth/race/luck rolled dice in my favor. Otherwise I'd probably be a gleefull mass murderer, happily living out my days slitting throats, raping and torturing till I either retired wealthy from the right kill (rich landowner, taking all their possesions) or dying horribly to attacking the wrong target. Either way my life would be the free daydream become reality I imagine it would be. The end result mostly hinging on how much training I would be able to absorb at a young age from various non-savory types and if I were able to come into possesion of any kind of magical artifact.
@Dave - There are no holodecks in Star Wars. You're thinking Trek.
World with no LOTR movies.
Star Wars is one of the pillars of modern science fiction movies and tv shows. Without it the entire genre would be different. Hell it even has an impact on one of the other major pillars, Star Trek. and that's not getting into the impact beyond science-fiction which includes Pixar.
Now if the question involved the LOTR books, aka "Hi I'm the basis for modern fantasy", it would be a much harder decision.
Star Wars is one of the pillars of modern science fiction movies and tv shows. Without it the entire genre would be different. Hell it even has an impact on one of the other major pillars, Star Trek. and that's not getting into the impact beyond science-fiction which includes Pixar.
Now if the question involved the LOTR books, aka "Hi I'm the basis for modern fantasy", it would be a much harder decision.
Dave
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Not a senior moment at all. I just think that the differences between Trek/Wars is different, but most of the tech is similar. For example, of course they didn't show a holodeck in Wars. Most of the ships were either authoritarian & military ships or they were smuggling vessels. We really saw no massive exploration ships which we see in Trek. Granted, the Trek ships are capable of combat, but not in the scale that a Wars ship is.
And the holograms you see in communications are over Darwin only knows how far away and how degraded the signal gets. I'd say that a holodeck would be possible due to the power for these being shipside and not having to transmit over vast distances.
And the holograms you see in communications are over Darwin only knows how far away and how degraded the signal gets. I'd say that a holodeck would be possible due to the power for these being shipside and not having to transmit over vast distances.
The prequels showed plenty of ships that were very capable of showing off Holo-technology. The Trade Ships, the ships that Royalty used etc. I'll go a step further and denounce Holodecks in Star Wars by reminding you of all the training scenes in the Jedi Temple. Of all places in the universe you'd find training simulation holo-decks, would have been there and there wasn't any. I'll go a few more steps further and add in all of the extended Universe novels I've come across or games I've played, there also has been absolutely nothing resembling a Holo-Deck. Best you get is "decent resolution" holograms that must come from a "projector".
Shut up, you say this all the time. If you don't like it, stay out.
That bolded text was a reference to Numenor actually... you know, the humans that where at elf levels of advancement.
And you're more right then you seem to know when you use "demigod"... Aragorn was a descendant of Melian, a maia, that's why he had innate power...and he still had to use a plant though...
And the elves seems to rely mostly on artifacts (Elrond had a ring when he summoned the flood against the ringwraiths)... because compared to D&D LotR magic is way more subdued and takes a lot more effort...
And then there's the Beornings, who can turn into bears, and don't seem to be descended from any magical being, just some guy that knew to talk to horses and trees for some reason...
But i remember that someone did mention human sorcerors and other things in the books (like magic rings that where not Rings of Power)... of course it could have been something Tolkien later abandoned... i mean the Sillmarillion wasn't even finished, and Unfinished Tales speaks for itself...
So i don't think someone not born into it has no chance, just that it's very hard and unlikely... i wasn't really arguing against that part. But i'm pretty sure Shego would eventually find some being to give her power in exchange for human sacrifice... unless she dies of dysentery first.
Of course you're right about Star Trek, it does offer the best chances... as long as you avoid serving in any capacity that requires you to wear the red shirt...
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