[News] The USA Police State will never satisfy its lust for beating, gassing, and imprisoning minorities

Bubble181 · May 12, 2016

Eriol said:
You're not actually naive enough to think that we don't already right? It's (most of the time) a consequence of scarcity and values, but we totally do. Otherwise each and every death by something even moderately preventable would be a literal national tragedy. But it isn't, and thus most "good enough efforts" are accepted, because it's too expensive to act as if it's the be-all-end-all.

So we totally put prices on human lives. I'm not sure what the number is these days, but I've seen everything from $25,000 to $250,000 before. And probably higher in some cases.

The further away from Earth you get, the more expensive your life is. The further from the Western world you get, the less expensive your life is. Some Vietnamese or Pakistani gets shot? Nobody cares. An astronaut dies in the ISS? You bet it'll be news all over the world and cause billions in new and special safety procedures.

ThatNickGuy · May 12, 2016

Sadly, this isn't the first time murderers profited from their act:

Ravenpoe · May 12, 2016

ThatNickGuy said:
Sadly, this isn't the first time murderers profited from their act:

Yeah, but a judge ruled all profits of that had to go to the goldman family, OJ didn't actually see a dime from it.

PatrThom · May 12, 2016

Eriol said:
we totally put prices on human lives. I'm not sure what the number is these days, but I've seen everything from $25,000 to $250,000 before. And probably higher in some cases.

"What is the price of a human life?" is a question frequently brought up when talking about the egregiousness of RIAA/copyright penalties.

--Patrick

Chad Sexington · May 12, 2016

Eriol said:
You're not actually naive enough to think that we don't already right? It's (most of the time) a consequence of scarcity and values, but we totally do. Otherwise each and every death by something even moderately preventable would be a literal national tragedy. But it isn't, and thus most "good enough efforts" are accepted, because it's too expensive to act as if it's the be-all-end-all.

So we totally put prices on human lives. I'm not sure what the number is these days, but I've seen everything from $25,000 to $250,000 before. And probably higher in some cases.

The EPA value of a statistical life is $7.4 million

PatrThom · May 12, 2016

Chad Sexington said:
The EPA value of a statistical life is $7.4 million

According to that site, that figure is in 2006 dollars. When adjusted for inflation, that figure becomes $8,740,956.35 in 2016 dollars.

--Patrick

Chad Sexington · May 12, 2016

PatrThom said:
According to that site, that figure is in 2006 dollars. When adjusted for inflation, that figure becomes $8,740,956.35 in 2016 dollars.

--Patrick

I actually initially wrote $8.7 million, but then figured it was simpler to go with the number on the site, which is uncharacteristic of me, but there you go.

Null · May 12, 2016

Some crackhead killed a guy in a hold up downtown last week. In that case, the value of a human life was $26.83 and a pack of menthols.

Eriol · May 12, 2016

Chad Sexington said:
The EPA value of a statistical life is $7.4 million

Very informative page, not just the part you highlighted. On how exactly the figure was arrived at, etc. So very interesting reading regardless of any other factors.

I've also seen it said that the value of a life is the value of the income you'll produce during it. Or (many) other measures.

strawman · May 13, 2016

Looks like two auction sites have taken the listing down one after the other, and probably fake bids are increasing the price well above what's possible for Zimmerman's gun.

Perhaps the free market is actually regulating a bad social issue without the government stepping in and telling us what's good for us? Who would have guessed!

PatrThom · May 13, 2016

stienman said:
Perhaps the free market is actually regulating a bad social issue without the government stepping in and telling us what's good for us? Who would have guessed!

Hey, even a free market will only stomach so much.

--Patrick

AshburnerX · Jun 2, 2016

There is no Ferguson effect: 2015 one of the safest years to be a police officer in the United States on record.

“Any felonious death of a police officer is a tragedy, but the data show that the police officers’ job is not becoming more deadly,” David Harris, a University of Pittsburgh School of Law professor who studies law enforcement, told Huffington Post writer Matt Ferner. “The FBI statistics on police officer felonious deaths show that belief that the job is growing more dangerous, because of protests against police or because of the demand for reform to police practices, is simply wrong. Belief to the contrary may be sincere, but it has no basis in fact.”

evilmike · Jun 2, 2016

Also, many of the high profile incidents used to show that there was a "War on Cops" were false:

On the morning of September 1, 2015, Lt. Charles Joseph "Joe" Gliniewicz of the Fox Lake, Illinois Police Department was found dead, in woods bordering U.S. 12 in Fox Lake. Originally thought to have been killed with his own .40-caliber service weapon by three unknown assailants, two months of intense investigation led the Lake County Major Crime Task Force and the Lake County Coroner's Office to conclude that Gliniewicz had actually committed suicide

(Wikipedia)

Inside an interrogation room at the Millis police station, the two state troopers had finally gotten at least some of the truth from Bryan Johnson.
Police had spent the last two days searching for a madman who’d brazenly shot at the small-town officer, then escaped without a trace. Schools were closed that September day as a precaution after a bomb threat was called in hours before the shooting.
Into the second day of questioning, Johnson’s story fell apart. He admitted that it was all a lie: There was no shooter. There was no danger. He had shot at his own cruiser, radioed in the phony call. He made the whole thing up.

(Boston.com)

A central Arkansas police officer was arrested after police say he lied about being shot at during a traffic stop.
The report sparked a state-wide search for the suspect and the vehicle when England Police Sgt. David Houser said he pulled over an SUV on October 24 and the driver pulled out a gun and shot him in his bullet-proof vest.

(THV11)

On the afternoon of June 9, Houston motorcycle police officer Terry Smith was shot in the back while parked at that spot, in the Sears parking lot. Within hours, HPD released information to the public that it was looking for a champagne colored vehicle with a man and a pregnant woman inside. They were considered possible suspects. At the time, the Houston Police Officers' Union had harsh words for the unknown shooter: "He's a coward to shoot a man in the back when he's not even looking at you," said HPOU board member Joseph Gamaldi on that day.

Now, there is one major problem. Multiple sources close to the investigation have told Eyewitness News that investigators now believe the story was fabricated. They are coming to the conclusion there may never have been a champagne colored car with two people inside.

Sources close to the investigation say HPD is working on the theory that Officer Smith may have been hit by gunfire from his friend at the scene, METRO Police Officer Gregory Hudson. METRO confirms Hudson was placed on desk duty on September 2.

(ABC13)

(Kevin) Lord was shot in Commerce City November 8, 2015. He told investigators he was shot by a suspect near 96th and Peoria Street.
Police issued a blue alert for the alleged suspect vehicle, investigators created a sketch of the suspect, officers said they searched numerous neighborhoods and there was even a $20,000 reward issued for information in the case.
But five days later, on November 13, Lord was arrested and investigators announced Lord had not been shot during a traffic stop, like he claimed.

(ABC7)

Charlie Don't Surf · Jun 18, 2016

I just read this tweet thread slack-jawed -

edit; this doesn't show replies that well, i don't want to link to all 16 and spam the thread. but it's worth clicking. i'll do first and last

also, I think a NYTimes article had the wild stat that more toddlers 0-4 were shot in the past year than police officers.

blotsfan · Jun 18, 2016

If an episode of Law and Order had that happen, I would call it too over the top. I'm not feeling sympathy for the mayor because she seems like she just wants it to go away without caring about the victims, but I honestly don't know what even the best-intentioned person could do about this. You're probably best off firing literally every cop and replacing the department, but I have no idea how that'd be possible.

Gruebeard · Jun 18, 2016

blotsfan said:
You're probably best off firing literally every cop and replacing the department, but I have no idea how that'd be possible.

That should be possible up here, although the size of the city would make it logistically tough. But yeah, I think a city here could just fire the department and bring the RCMP in. That's always an option here for cities, anyway, if they don't want to run a force of their own.

I'd assume y'all have a higher level force that could step in.

GasBandit · Jun 18, 2016

blotsfan said:
If an episode of Law and Order had that happen, I would call it too over the top. I'm not feeling sympathy for the mayor because she seems like she just wants it to go away without caring about the victims, but I honestly don't know what even the best-intentioned person could do about this. You're probably best off firing literally every cop and replacing the department, but I have no idea how that'd be possible.

Fire every cop, fire every public official, deincorporate the city, burn it to the ground, salt the earth.

DarkAudit · Jun 18, 2016

GasBandit said:
Fire every cop, fire every public official, deincorporate the city, burn it to the ground, salt the earth.

That's a start. Who gets stuck with the Raiduhs?

GasBandit · Jun 18, 2016

DarkAudit said:
That's a start. Who gets stuck with the Raiduhs?

We throw them in the sea.

DarkAudit · Jun 18, 2016

GasBandit said:
We throw them in the sea.

That's monstrous! What did the sea ever do to you?

Null · Jun 18, 2016

GasBandit said:
We throw them in the sea.

Do you want Atlanteans to attack? Because that's how you provoke Atlanteans to attack.

MindDetective · Jun 18, 2016

Null said:
Do you want Atlanteans to attack? Because that's how you provoke Atlanteans to attack.

By throwing them in the Pacific? Unless you are hauling them all the way across the country to throw them in the sea...

jwhouk · Jun 18, 2016

I think he means "Godzilla and his minions."

Hailey Knight · Jun 18, 2016

jwhouk said:
I think he means "Godzilla and his minions."

Godzilla has better things to attack.

strawman · Jun 18, 2016

Charlie Don't Surf said:
...the wild stat that more toddlers 0-4 were shot in the past year than police officers.

The children's defense fund likes to use those numbers. They neglect to mention that there are 24 million children in the US under five, but only 1.2 million police officers. So it's around a 3 in one million chance for toddler death, while for police it's closer to 30 in one million chance.

Of course abortion numbers dwarf these statistics.

A child has a 20% chance of being killed before they are born in the US, or in other words for every child killed by a gun in the US, 10,000 other children are terminated in utero at their own mothers' hand.

blotsfan · Jun 18, 2016

Dave · Jun 18, 2016

stienman said:
Of course abortion numbers dwarf these statistics.

A child has a 20% chance of being killed before they are born in the US, or in other words for every child killed by a gun in the US, 10,000 other children are terminated in utero at their own mothers' hand.

Abortion is a legal medical procedure that is no more murder than jacking off into a tissue. Meanwhile, religious men tell millions of women what they can do with their bodies.

DarkAudit · Jun 18, 2016

Dave said:
Abortion is a legal medical procedure that is no more murder than jacking off into a tissue. Meanwhile, religious men tell millions of women what they can do with their bodies.

And then try to deny any social services to help that baby they forced to be carried to term.

Dave · Jun 18, 2016

I actually don't have much of a stake in the whole abortion thing. I just thought we were talking about it in absolutes, so I joined in.

GasBandit · Jun 18, 2016

Dave said:
Abortion is a legal medical procedure that is no more murder than jacking off into a tissue. Meanwhile, religious men tell millions of women what they can do with their bodies.

Meanwhile, 150 years ago: "Slavery is a legal economic concept that is no more immoral than buying farm equipment. Meanwhile, industrialized northerners tell millions of farmers what they can do with their property."

I'm not pro-life, but that argument is invalid. Legality does not confer morality.

Dave · Jun 18, 2016

Dave said:
I actually don't have much of a stake in the whole abortion thing. I just thought we were talking about it in absolutes, so I joined in.

Charlie Don't Surf · Jun 18, 2016

bringing abortion into this topic is almost as laughable as your extremist views

sixpackshaker · Jun 18, 2016

Charlie Don't Surf said:
bringing abortion into this topic is almost as laughable as your extremist views

Irony is lost on you.

Gruebeard · Jun 19, 2016

Charlie Don't Surf said:
bringing abortion into this topic is almost as laughable as your extremist views

I don't know. If we abort all the right(wing) babies, we'll get our lefty utopia in a few years.

PatrThom · Jun 19, 2016

Gruebeard said:
I don't know. If we abort all the right(wing) babies, we'll get our lefty utopia in a few years.

Nah, that's all nurture, not nature.

--Patrick