My Tumblr is still mostly video game silliness, but I can't seem to keep my opinions to myself all the time ... so maybe Patrthom is right.
Funny (political, religious) pictures
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
"Class differences" isn't as much of an entrenched hot button around here as steak prep, but it's pretty high up there.
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
It doesn't bother me, for one. Yes, kids of wealthy parents have it easier, that's just reality. But that doesn't mean the opportunities aren't there to move up. Or, at least, they were prior to 2008. The Great Recession's thrown everything off, but up until then, the US had higher income mobility and more new millionaires per year than ever before. The true fallacy of the argument, however, is that the next statement in the line is usually how some redistributionist boondoggle is supposed to make it so nobody is poor - when all they do is put EVERYBODY in column B.
Also, the comic presents a false dichotomy - it isn't an either-or situation, and just because someone's one of the millions of people in the food service industry doesn't mean the presented scenario is their story as well.
Also, the comic presents a false dichotomy - it isn't an either-or situation, and just because someone's one of the millions of people in the food service industry doesn't mean the presented scenario is their story as well.
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I didn't say we had a bunch of entitled millionaires. I just said the topic is particularly divisive.
--Patrick
Out of curiosity, I just ran some quick numbers. Top 1% has a total household income of about $2.7 trillion. Bottom 80% has about $1.16 trillion. You could take away $2 trillion dollars, spread it around the bottom 80% (
Wow, that was way off.
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But you'd be taking away their incentive to work so hard!
Buahahaha, sorry, couldn't hold it in.
GasBandit
Staff member
And that 7.7 grand would vanish immediately. People trained to the mentality of poverty stay poor.
And, of course, that's even without opening the can of worms that is the violation of personal property.
I know you think it's a joke, but it's true. Take away the incentive of personal enrichment, and the whole thing falls apart. Capitalism makes everyone unequally rich, but socialism and communism makes everyone equally poor.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, it depends on how high the taxes. If the tax rate is the presented "100% of everything above $233,000," then yes, I'm pretty sure it would be the case.
That has never been the case, anywhere. Kind of silly to even suggest that
GasBandit
Staff member
Don't look at me, Drifter suggested it.That has never been the case, anywhere. Kind of silly to even suggest that
GasBandit
Staff member
Point is, we've spent $22 trillion dollars on the "war on poverty" and the percentage in poverty (or what Americans define as poverty, which is actually above the median European level) has pretty much stayed constant for the last 50 years at around 13%.
But yeah, it's fun to have comics that perpetuate the myth that 99% of the country is starving and sick, and that old money is the only money. Little hint - Column A in that comic also probably was not in the 1% either.
But yeah, it's fun to have comics that perpetuate the myth that 99% of the country is starving and sick, and that old money is the only money. Little hint - Column A in that comic also probably was not in the 1% either.
I feel so patriotic!
Considering the US is the wealthiest nation in the world, the amount of poverty and how we treat our poor should embarrass everyone. Yes, even you. That 'definition' is actually low in most conditions, and anyone who considers a refrigerator or other general appliances as optional in today's society causes me to be physically ill.
GasBandit
Staff member
The amount of poverty in this country is sustained and perpetuated most by those who purport to do the most to alleviate it. It's created a system of ever-increasing dependence and undermined self reliance and proven motivating factors. We should indeed be embarrased about how we treat our poor - we keep them poor so they'll keep voting for the politicians that promise them handouts.
The definition is not "actually low," it really is actually high compared to other nations. As I said, better than the median. People in poverty in the US have A/C, cars, large screen cable TV, DVDs, xbox, PCs and internet.
We've literally spent more money on trying to eliminate poverty than we have on every single war since the Revolutionary War, but I'm sure if we just spend more, then that'll work.
Ok, for THAT I'm going to need a source. And I don't mean "some biased site which makes up numbers and leaves out 'conflicts' to support their hypothesis". I mean including Vietnam and all the conflicts which involved removing dictators the US supported over the years.
GasBandit
Staff member
http://cironline.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/June2010CRScostofuswars.pdf
Figures adjusted for inflation to 2011 dollars:
American Revolution: $2.4 billion
War of 1812: $1.5 billion
Mexican-American War: $2.5 billion
Civil War: $80 billion (60 union, 20 confederate)
Spanish-American War: $9 billion
WW1: $334 billion
WW2: $4,104 billion
Korea: $341 billion
Vietnam: $731 billion
Gulf War 1: $102 billion
Iraq: $784 billion
Afghanistan (up through 2010): $321 billion.
Total: $6 trillion, 812 billion and change. Nowhere near the $22 trillion of new poverty spending that began with LBJ.
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Source for 'poverty spending'? I want to know what is being included in that.
http://cironline.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/June2010CRScostofuswars.pdf
Please clarify which is correct?
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
You'll have to give me time to trace down that one, because it's been bandied about and accepted for so long that nobody sources it any more. But here's a house committe budget report that shows that we've spent 5.5 trillion since 2003 alone, and what it was spent on.
http://budget.house.gov/waronpoverty/
http://budget.house.gov/UploadedFiles/War_on_Poverty_Full_Inventory.xlsx
You will note that Social Security and Medicare are not included/counted.[DOUBLEPOST=1432848540,1432848506][/DOUBLEPOST]
Whoops, 22 trillion.
Fair enough. It's important to me to get the entire set if information, not one half and not the other
The number regarding wars isn't correct, either. Keep in mind that the Iraq and Afghan wars aren't counting interest. According to the CBO in 2007, those two wars alone by 2017 would cost 2.7 TRILLION dollars. Way different that what is listed above. And that was back in 2007.
The number regarding wars isn't correct, either. Keep in mind that the Iraq and Afghan wars aren't counting interest. According to the CBO in 2007, those two wars alone by 2017 would cost 2.7 TRILLION dollars. Way different that what is listed above. And that was back in 2007.
GasBandit
Staff member
.. So do we count interest on the social programs as well? Because I don't think that's in those figures either.Fair enough. It's important to me to get the entire set if information, not one half and not the other
The number regarding wars isn't correct, either. Keep in mind that the Iraq and Afghan wars aren't counting interest. According to the CBO in 2007, those two wars alone by 2017 would cost 2.7 TRILLION dollars. Way different that what is listed above. And that was back in 2007.
Also remember we have been spending money between those wars for the last 70 years as though we are still on a war footing. We did not need to spend trillions on missiles, drones, and tanks during the war... we bought those earlier.
True.
There is a lot spent which isn't necessarily tied to a war, but is definitely spent on defense. Those numbers aren't being compared, and that's really what I was trying to get at. The amount spent to help the poor vs. what is spent on wars doesn't have a comparable number, no matter how hard we try.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well I didn't say "more than all defense spending," I said more than we spent on wars. That's two separate things. The former was spent whether there was a war or not.
Why can't people grab the fun shit from my blog? Like ones making fun of meninists boycotting Mad Max?
Yeah, MRAs are morons.