Chipotle asks its customers not be armed when dining with them.

I'm just not worried about it. Even if half the fear mongering bullshit the right shits out on talk radio and fox came true it wouldn't matter. The battle was lost when we let our government get this big. And a bunch of fat, racist assholes with guns won't make a difference. If they truly wanted to change things for the better they would be doing something more productive than trying to freak out people eating at fast food restaurants.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm just not worried about it. Even if half the fear mongering bullshit the right shits out on talk radio and fox came true it wouldn't matter. The battle was lost when we let our government get this big. And a bunch of fat, racist assholes with guns won't make a difference. If they truly wanted to change things for the better they would be doing something more productive than trying to freak out people eating at fast food restaurants.
Well, I agree with you insofar as the federal government has passed a point of no return. But the collapse will more likely come from within it, and then the fighting will come into play over the scraps of the Balkanized States of America.
 
Well, I agree with you insofar as the federal government has passed a point of no return. But the collapse will more likely come from within it, and then the fighting will come into play over the scraps of the Balkanized States of America.
Bring it on. I suspect our, ahem, "revolutionaries" may not be the dangerous freedom fighters you hope they will be.
 
Oh have we moved on to the government collapsing and various states at war with each other now?

It's a fun theoretical but I'm still at dumbasses bringing guns into the restaurant I'm eating at with my kid.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Oh have we moved on to the government collapsing and various states at war with each other now?

It's a fun theoretical but I'm still at dumbasses bringing guns into the restaurant I'm eating at with my kid.
Your snarky usage of oversimplified emotional imagery is duly noted.
 
If we really want to see the future of the USA, we just need to look back to the fall of the roman empire. Our current situation pretty much mirrors theirs in the amount that money has become saturated in politics.

Spoiler alert: It doesn't end well for us.
 
To me a person who brought a long gun into a public area isn't practicing good gun safety. As such if they brought a long gun into a work place it would create a situation where employees would not feel that they could work safely and as such have the legal right to refuse to work until the situation was corrected.
 
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Another thing to bring into the discussion is not just the rights of the gun owner, but what about the rights of the other customers? Do they not have a right to eat in a business that is free of things that they percieve to be dangerous?[DOUBLEPOST=1400692201,1400692084][/DOUBLEPOST]
So the barbarians of the north are...Canada?
Economically speaking, they could be. Physically, I'd be more worried about South America.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
If we really want to see the future of the USA, we just need to look back to the fall of the roman empire. Our current situation pretty much mirrors theirs in the amount that money has become saturated in politics.

Spoiler alert: It doesn't end well for us.
I'm not sure how much "money in politics" had to do with it, so much as a degrading military increasingly populated by foreign mercenaries, overspending, inflation, the division between the east and west empire, and rampant pandemic lead poisoning, punctuated by an invading barbarian horde. But certainly our government definitely has become corrupt and decadent.[DOUBLEPOST=1400692629,1400692264][/DOUBLEPOST]
To me a person who brought a long gun into a public area isn't practicing good gun safety. As such if they brought a long gun into a work place it would create a situation where employees would not feel that they could work safely and as such have the legal right to refuse to work until the situation was cocorrected.
That's true.

Another thing to bring into the discussion is not just the rights of the gun owner, but what about the rights of the other customers? Do they not have a right to eat in a business that is free of things that they percieve to be dangerous?
No. Perception is subjective, and when you are in public, you might see things subjectively you don't like. If I had a fear of dogs, and perceive them to be vicious and dangerous, that doesn't mean I can expect them to be banned from public areas. And one of the big problems with our culture is how many people think that their feelings have legal ramifications.

All that is, of course, assuming the weapons were simply being "worn" and not brandished or "waved around" as DA puts it. Acting in a threatening manner changes the situation, naturally, but I've not read anything that states these people were doing so.
 
That's what you predict, it's not what you know. Switzerland has lots of guns - they have compulsory military service and issue each soldier a "military assault rifle"... and the soldier keeps it when they go home. Their firearm related deaths are half ours and their gun crime statistics are "so low they don't bother keeping track." The difference? The training. That's an important part here that I think we lack. The "well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" part of the 2nd amendment means not strictly clamped down by government codes and ordinances, but rather well equipped and trained up to the standard of that of a regular soldier. We're also remiss in that training - the initial goal of the NRA when it was founded was not actually being an advocate for gun rights but rather trying to train the general populace to be better marskmen after it was shown during the civil war that untrained americans with rifles generally hit once for every 1000 rounds fired. I had the fortune to attend a summer camp in my youth that had courses on rifle use, maintenance and safety. If more americans had that kind of education - say, like home economics in high school - it'd go a long way to removing both the "I'm afraid when people with guns are around" situation AND the... to distastefully borrow a phrase from DarkAudit... the "fapping to guns" mentality. We have the right to keep and bear arms, but people forget that that right is meant to be part of upholding a responsibility - and part of that responsibility is being safe, competent and educated about the firearms one possesses.
The man in my article was an ex-cop. He had training and education.
 
Your snarky usage of oversimplified emotional imagery is duly noted.
I'm dead serious. People carrying their guns into a fast food shop as an act of "protest" are dumbasses. Dumb because it's hurting their (already lost) cause and asses because if they are likely to pull a stunt like this they probably have the common sense of a chicken and are therefore higher risks for shooting themselves or my family while they try to eat their giant burrito with extra America sauce and hold their AR-15 at the same time in case Obama storms in to try to turn them into a gay socialist muslim.

Ok, now that was a little snarky. :p
 

GasBandit

Staff member
The man in my article was an ex-cop. He had training and education.
There will always be bad eggs and violent criminals. And the fact of the matter is, in the US, if a bad egg/violent criminal wants a firearm, he'll get one. Gun control laws only disarm those who weren't the danger in the first place.
 
I have never fired a real gun--only BB guns. But I could easily get my hands on a legal firearm. That does not mean I have the education or experience to properly handle one or know its correct usage.

Knowing that, seeing a bunch of people walk into a restaurant wearing firearms does not fill me with confidence. How do I know they're not as ignorant as I am?
 
I have never fired a real gun--only BB guns. But I could easily get my hands on a legal firearm. That does not mean I have the education or experience to properly handle one or know its correct usage.

Knowing that, seeing a bunch of people walk into a restaurant wearing firearms does not fill me with confidence. How do I know they're not as ignorant as I am?
Like I said, anyone who thinks thats a good idea is basically telling you they have terrible judgement. I'd get out of there as fast as possible.
 
There will always be bad eggs and violent criminals. And the fact of the matter is, in the US, if a bad egg/violent criminal wants a firearm, he'll get one. Gun control laws only disarm those who weren't the danger in the first place.
This is true if nobody ever killed someone with a gun in a crime of passion.
 
No. Perception is subjective, and when you are in public, you might see things subjectively you don't like. If I had a fear of dogs, and perceive them to be vicious and dangerous, that doesn't mean I can expect them to be banned from public areas. And one of the big problems with our culture is how many people think that their feelings have legal ramifications.
Well, by that logic, I want my smoking bans lifted so I can smoke in public places again.

Just to stress again, this really is not a second amendment issue at all. No one is infringing on these people's rights to keep and bear arms. They're refusing service to them. That is the business owner's right, as I see it. For someone who's all about free markets, you're sure quick to try to have the government enforce something on business owners that may be detrimental to their business.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Well, by that logic, I want my smoking bans lifted so I can smoke in public places again.
You don't have a right to smoke in public, other than the fact that it isn't specifically outlawed except in certain areas. There's nothing in the constitution about smoking. There is, however, quite a bit about firearms.

Just to stress again, this really is not a second amendment issue at all. No one is infringing on these people's rights to keep and bear arms. They're refusing service to them. That is the business owner's right, as I see it. For someone who's all about free markets, you're sure quick to try to have the government enforce something on business owners that may be detrimental to their business.
I'm not saying Chipotle can't ask them to stop. In fact, I said they handled the situation deftly. I'm saying that the grabbers are overreacting.

And it IS a second amendment issue. What do you think "keep and bear arms" means? Only being able to lock them away hidden at home? "Bear" means to carry or wear.

This is true if nobody ever killed someone with a gun in a crime of passion.
None of the oh-so-highly publicized mass shootings of recent years were crimes of passion. They were all deliberately premeditated and targeted at those the criminal believed would be unarmed and unable to protect themselves.

But in as far as crimes of passion, does it matter whether a man shoots his wife or beats her to death with a cudgel? Or would it be better if she had something to protect herself from someone twice her size and three times her muscle mass? (THIS scenario, however, is not second amendment material).

I have never fired a real gun--only BB guns. But I could easily get my hands on a legal firearm. That does not mean I have the education or experience to properly handle one or know its correct usage.

Knowing that, seeing a bunch of people walk into a restaurant wearing firearms does not fill me with confidence. How do I know they're not as ignorant as I am?
Which is why, as I said, I'm in favor of adding firearm safety and use into the mandatory high school curriculum.
 
Whelp, we better start letting peole carry guns on planes and into our schools.

I wish that I could be joking that that is your actual thought on that, GB.

No right is absolute, there are always exceptions. You have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean there aren't circumstances where that right becomes abridged in the interest of public safety and protection : See yelling fire in a crowded theater.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Whelp, we better start letting peole carry guns on planes and into our schools.

I wish that I could be joking that that is your actual thought on that, GB.

No right is absolute, there are always exceptions. You have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean there aren't circumstances where that right becomes abridged in the interest of public safety and protection : See yelling fire in a crowded theater.
Well, you're right, to a degree. Yelling fire (along with things like slander and libel) are good examples of exceptions to the rule. But the planes and schools line isn't analogous. While there has been legislation passed that declares restaurants to be public areas on private property, that does not extend to airplanes, which are private property. As for schools, so long as it is adults who are supposed to be there already, isn't that already one of the solutions being proposed to counter school shootings? Faculty members with access to weapons?[DOUBLEPOST=1400700664,1400700620][/DOUBLEPOST]
Then it should begin with that education, not begin with guns for everyone.
The guns are already there, and they're not going away. So we need to play catch-up with the education.
 
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