[Webcomic] PVP Discussion

TheGuy · Jul 1, 2013

I've never understood how someone like Kurtz could put something like PvP up as his main job, and then proceed to utterly fail on delivering content. I mean for reference on what's possible to do in a week, there's plenty of Japanese manga artists who put out 17-19 pages of crap like this :

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/toriko/c239/4.html

On a weekly basis. Sometimes they might have assistants, but the assistants are generally never doing any of the principle character art that shows up in every panel. There are literally people in the same profession as Kurtz, who put out 10x the content per week with a drastically higher quality. It's just weird to me how someone who's doing dramatically less work compared to other people still manages to miss deadlines for what amounts to a trivial amount of content - and then proceeds to soapbox about how his content is awesome.

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

Okay, yesterday's strip was funny as fuck! It was almost like a PvP from days gone by! (And I like Jade's views on porn...)

Gusto · Jul 3, 2013

Cajungal · Jul 3, 2013

There's a preview for today's strip, but it sent me to yesterday's strip.

sixpackshaker · Jul 3, 2013

Cajungal said:
There's a preview for today's strip, but it sent me to yesterday's strip.

Scott has a Flux Capacitor...

Just Me · Jul 3, 2013

sixpackshaker said:
Scott has a Flux Capacitor...

Also, silhouettes..

Meh, it's not even funny anymore mentioning them.

Ravenpoe · Jul 3, 2013

Cajungal said:
There's a preview for today's strip, but it sent me to yesterday's strip.

Here ya go, the site is borked but I was able to find this.

DarkAudit · Jul 3, 2013

Why I Watch Community Instead in Three Panels.

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

Gee, think Scott is one of those Big Bang Theory bandwagon haters?

Frank · Jul 3, 2013

Dave said:
Gee, think Scott is one of those Big Bang Theory bandwagon haters?

Really late to the party, like he is on most of his obversations.

(though, hating that show isn't necessarily bandwagon hating. It's terrible)

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

It's not terrible. The science is sound and I've personally met people exactly like those in the show. Are they caricatures? Yes. But that doesn't mean that there's not a truth behind the stereotype.

North_Ranger · Jul 3, 2013

...

Okay, can someone please tell me when I should be laughing? Yesterday's font porn was just bland and today's... oh for fuck's sake, my English skills simply fail me in describing the lack of comedy in that one.

Bubble181 · Jul 3, 2013

Meh, I like it for what it is. I don't think tis "nerd culture" portrayal is worse than some other shows portraying other "worlds". That said, it isn't a nerd show - it's a sitcom in the nerd subculture, which could just as well have been placed in many, many other subcultures.

Chad Sexington · Jul 3, 2013

Personally I always have time for acknowledgment of that show's terribleness.

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

North_Ranger said:
...

Okay, can someone please tell me when I should be laughing? Yesterday's font porn was just bland and today's... oh for fuck's sake, my English skills simply fail me in describing the lack of comedy in that one.

Today's totally makes fun of the Big Bang Theory, by saying that the words used are just jargon thrown around to sound smart to people not in the culture, but those in the culture know them to be gibberish. The problem is, the science and terminology in the Big Bang Theory is very nearly always correct and in the right context.

Chad Sexington · Jul 3, 2013

My problem with BBT is that it purports to be about/for nerds, but it is so obviously about how nerds are alien, weird and lame.

The punchline is the nerd culture. "Oh sorry, I can't go, my Dungeons & Dragons group have to slay the Dragon of Florgoth and I can't trust them not to loot my corpse." BWAHAHAHAHAHA THEY PLAY D&D INSTEAD OF PROPER SOCIALISING. It's mean, at worst, unsympathetic at best.

Take Community, where they actually play D&D, and that's from where all the humour is derived. They obviously had people who understand, enjoy and play write/help write that episode. D&D isn't the punchline, it's the story.

BBT is about how nerds are funny because nerd culture is a joke. He can't talk to girls. He likes math more than sports. Etc. They don't celebrate nerds, they laugh at them.

ANYWAY

Back to your regularly scheduled PVP thread

Frank · Jul 3, 2013

Dave said:
It's not terrible. The science is sound and I've personally met people exactly like those in the show. Are they caricatures? Yes. But that doesn't mean that there's not a truth behind the stereotype.

And yet you don't mention that it's funny, because it isn't. The show's biggest crime.

Ravenpoe · Jul 3, 2013

Chad Sexington said:
My problem with BBT is that it purports to be about/for nerds, but it is so obviously about how nerds are alien, weird and lame.

The punchline is the nerd culture. "Oh sorry, I can't go, my Dungeons & Dragons group have to slay the Dragon of Florgoth and I can't trust them not to loot my corpse." BWAHAHAHAHAHA THEY PLAY D&D INSTEAD OF PROPER SOCIALISING. It's mean, at worst, unsympathetic at best.

Take Community, where they actually play D&D, and that's from where all the humour is derived. They obviously had people who understand, enjoy and play write/help write that episode. D&D isn't the punchline, it's the story.

BBT is about how nerds are funny because nerd culture is a joke. He can't talk to girls. He likes math more than sports. Etc. They don't celebrate nerds, they laugh at them.

ANYWAY

Back to your regularly scheduled PVP thread

Perfectly said. As I (and many others, I can't take credit for it) have said before, it's the equivalent of nerd blackface.

Chad Sexington · Jul 3, 2013

Ravenpoe said:
Perfectly said. As I (and many others, I can't take credit for it) have said before, it's the equivalent of nerd blackface.

I would be highly reluctant to compare it to blackface, but yeah, your point is taken.

Piotyr · Jul 3, 2013

Frank said:
Really late to the party, like he is on most of his obversations.

(though, hating that show isn't necessarily bandwagon hating. It's terrible)

To be fair, though, I also hate the Big Bang Theory bandwagon.

Reverent-one · Jul 3, 2013

Chad Sexington said:
My problem with BBT is that it purports to be about/for nerds, but it is so obviously about how nerds are alien, weird and lame.

The punchline is the nerd culture. "Oh sorry, I can't go, my Dungeons & Dragons group have to slay the Dragon of Florgoth and I can't trust them not to loot my corpse." BWAHAHAHAHAHA THEY PLAY D&D INSTEAD OF PROPER SOCIALISING. It's mean, at worst, unsympathetic at best.

Take Community, where they actually play D&D, and that's from where all the humour is derived. They obviously had people who understand, enjoy and play write/help write that episode. D&D isn't the punchline, it's the story.

BBT is about how nerds are funny because nerd culture is a joke. He can't talk to girls. He likes math more than sports. Etc. They don't celebrate nerds, they laugh at them.

ANYWAY

Back to your regularly scheduled PVP thread

And yet Penny becoming more like them is treated as a good thing. They make jokes based on the foibles of the different characters, but they do so for nearly all of the characters, nerd and non-nerd alike (see jokes made about Penny or pretty much any of Penny's boyfriends), there's simply a greater number of nerd characters on the show.

Chad Sexington · Jul 3, 2013

Reverent-one said:
And yet Penny becoming more like them is treated as a good thing. They make jokes based on the foibles of the different characters, but they do so for nearly all of the characters, nerd and non-nerd alike (see jokes made about Penny or pretty much any of Penny's boyfriends), there's simply a greater number of nerd characters on the show.

I guess I just see it differently -and obviously I'm not a regular watcher, so Penny's character evolution is not something I can speak to. But, my viewing does make me feel like it regards nerdity as lame and bad, instead of just different and fun. Oh well, I'm only too familiar with the truth that people can experience the same information and come to radically different conclusions.

but your conclusion is WRONG

Gusto · Jul 3, 2013

I just don't like shows that aren't funny or memorable in some way.

Reverent-one · Jul 3, 2013

Chad Sexington said:
I guess I just see it differently -and obviously I'm not a regular watcher, so Penny's character evolution is not something I can speak to. But, my viewing does make me feel like it regards nerdity as lame and bad, instead of just different and fun. Oh well, I'm only too familiar with the truth that people can experience the same information and come to radically different conclusions.

That is understandable, reasonable people can disagree while being mature...

but your conclusion is WRONG

Awww.

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

Frank said:
And yet you don't mention that it's funny, because it isn't. The show's biggest crime.

I think it's funny.

GasBandit · Jul 3, 2013

The little woman loooooves her some big bang. I think she commiserates with Penny, and half the things I say sound like gobbledygook to her.

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

And ALL of the characters have shown growth outside their comfort zone. Penny started out as an untouchable and has discovered that those she had originally looked down on are great people as well. Sheldon is now in a relationship and although it's not physical yet, he's considering it because Amy means that much to him. Howard no longer lives with his mom and is no longer a pig. Raj is now over his inability to talk to women. Leonard has always been the alpha of the beta group, but he's sticking up for himself more and feeling much better about social interactions.

So at its start it may have had more pigeon-holed stereotypes, but the characters have been allowed to grow. There's much less science and geek stuff, but it's there.

An example of how the show does geek stuff and does it well: There was an episode where the girlfriends made fun of the guys for reading comics, so they bought some to see what the big deal was. They thought it was stupid, but then started arguing about the powers of the characters and who would be able to beat whom. By the end, they got why the guys liked comics. This episode started with the premise that collecting comics is stupid and ended with the notion that there's more to it than most people see or understand.

Null · Jul 3, 2013

Chad Sexington said:
My problem with BBT is that it purports to be about/for nerds, but it is so obviously about how nerds are alien, weird and lame.

The punchline is the nerd culture. "Oh sorry, I can't go, my Dungeons & Dragons group have to slay the Dragon of Florgoth and I can't trust them not to loot my corpse." BWAHAHAHAHAHA THEY PLAY D&D INSTEAD OF PROPER SOCIALISING. It's mean, at worst, unsympathetic at best.

Take Community, where they actually play D&D, and that's from where all the humour is derived. They obviously had people who understand, enjoy and play write/help write that episode. D&D isn't the punchline, it's the story.

BBT is about how nerds are funny because nerd culture is a joke. He can't talk to girls. He likes math more than sports. Etc. They don't celebrate nerds, they laugh at them.

ANYWAY

Back to your regularly scheduled PVP thread

This, a thousand times this. Sheldon isn't a nerd, he's a fucking alien.

Dave · Jul 3, 2013

But they acknowledge that!! It's part of the joke![DOUBLEPOST=1372874966][/DOUBLEPOST]"Sometimes your movements are so life like I forget you are not a real boy."
"Penny, I told you if you don't put him in his crate at night, he just runs around the apartment."
"How long has he been stuck?" "Hmm, intellectually about 30 hours, emotionally about 29 years."

They acknowledge that Sheldon is emotionally stunted and extremely narcissistic. In fact, it's central to his character.

GasBandit · Jul 3, 2013

I used to know a Sheldon in real life. They do exist. He was part of my circle back in school.

North_Ranger · Jul 3, 2013

Screw you guys, I still like the show

I don't get my panties in a bunch over nerd stereotypes, and I agree with Dave's assessment that all of the characters have grown beyond their original comfort zones. Hell, I find Howard and Bernadette touching as hell, even if it means we'll get less of Howard's Mother.

I just find it more than a little hypocritical of Kurtz to complain the show is not funny. It's not like he himself has been hitting it out of the park recently. That the strip complaining about BBT not being funny is itself about as funny as cold oatmeal just seems fitting.

Chad Sexington · Jul 3, 2013

North_Ranger said:
Screw you guys, I still like the show

Whoa, I'm not trying to shit on anyone's enjoyment here. I was just saying how I find it. I'm not here to lecture you into agreeing with me.

I disagree with Dave's and N_R's assessments, but I mean, I was never trying to change minds, just sharing my ideas.

North_Ranger · Jul 3, 2013

Chad Sexington said:
Whoa, I'm not trying to shit on anyone's enjoyment here. I was just saying how I find it. I'm not here to lecture you into agreeing with me.

I disagree with Dave's and N_R's assessments, but I mean, I was never trying to change minds, just sharing my ideas.

Relax, I'm not that easily insulted. That's why I put the smiley (this one

) on afterwards. I was just poking fun at the vitriol this show sometimes seems to bring out in people.

Null · Jul 3, 2013

I guess it's a problem I have when idiotic TV writers try and write "genius" characters - the worst by FAR being Temperance Brennan on Bones. Now, the character in the book is apparently a lot different, but watching an episodes of Bones she just comes off like a fucking Martian. And the ridiculous double-standard she has for religions: "Booth, you shouldn't denigrate the folk beliefs of this ancient group of Vietnamese mountain cannibals, believing that devouring the liver of their enemies gave them their strength was an important part of their culture. Now I'll give you passive aggressive bullshit about you being Roman-Catholic for five minutes because believing in God is stupid."

Chad Sexington · Jul 3, 2013

Null said:
I guess it's a problem I have when idiotic TV writers try and write "genius" characters - the worst by FAR being Temperance Brennan on Bones. Now, the character in the book is apparently a lot different, but watching an episodes of Bones she just comes off like a fucking Martian. And the ridiculous double-standard she has for religions: "Booth, you shouldn't denigrate the folk beliefs of this ancient group of Vietnamese mountain cannibals, believing that devouring the liver of their enemies gave them their strength was an important part of their culture. Now I'll give you passive aggressive bullshit about you being Roman-Catholic for five minutes because believing in God is stupid."

I met a forensic anthropologist at a party once. Between us we downed a bottle of scotch and tore apart Bones for hours; it turns out with both 'loved' the show because it was so stupidly fun to hate. That was a good night.