[Rant] Minor Rant III: For a Few Hollers More

I had to tell my wife pre-marriage that she had to get friends and a life and hobbies of her own or it wasn't going to work out.

She got friends and hobbies, so I settled for that. It's all about compromise!

Shawnacy said:

My wife didn't surprise me in the least this morning. After my morning shift she texted me and asked me "What did you do after I fell asleep?". I told her the truth. "I cuddled with you until I went to work.". So she said "Oh okay! Guess I can't be mad at you then. House is a mess. If you had played video games instead of cleaning I would have been very upset."

Apparently it's okay to be lazy when it's with her. Just not lazy on my own.

Just so I can get us moving in the right direction I brought this up in a non confrontational way.
"When you said that this morning, I interpreted as..."
She kept silent. So I got really no clue.

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I've had the exact same conversation before and pretty much ended up with those same results. There's little left you can do about this Shawn. She knows it's selfish, she knows its wrong, but maybe isn't ready to accept it or learn how to work with it.

I've been reading this and I really feel for you. I hope that you two can come to a compromise together soon. Video games are no different than reading, watching tv etc when you need to unwind. I go through phases of playing games a ton and being hooked on crappy tv (currently in this phase) and its all good. Everybody needs time to themselves.

One argument I used to throw out there was:
Well would you prefer I watched sports at the bar, or went out all night with crazy friends or is it so horrible that I sit down in front of a screen for an hour or two to play a video game?

The problem here is not that she doesn't like video games though, it's that she doesn't let you play them alone.

Is that a good response? Probably not, but that's what happened in my situation.

Shawnacy said:

I'm going to see if she will let me play tonight before work. Wish me luck.

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Shawnacy By way of dissenting opinion, I'll quote this article from The Last Psychiatrist.

The Last Psychiatrist said:

No time to yourself.

Self help guides get this wrong. They say that to preserve sanity, you need some time for yourself; they say new moms need some "adult conversation." That is counterproductive.

You rush through dinner, through clean up, through idle conversation ; you're checking off your "responsibilities" so that you can get a moment to yourself. The result is you are not there, you're passing through, emotionally, until you can get to what you think you want to get to.

Life is what happens while you're trying to get to the computer.

A lot of people are going to disagree with me, and they are wrong. First, understand that your family is all there is. There is no break, there is nothing else, there is no "adult conversation." It is possible you may never golf again. The kids aren't the distraction-- everything else is the distraction. If golf is a pleasant diversion that doesn't cause you to rush through family life in order to get to it, then it's ok. Otherwise, it's out. Otherwise you will be rushing through family life to get to course. And you will miss out on the family, and will still not get any real relief from golfing.

Once you have accepted this, you can then proceed to step 2: decide on two or three "distractions" you really like, and put them into your routine, with dedication and commitment. If you are truly committed to them, your spouse will understand (and they'll have their own.) But if you pick, say, going to the gym MWF, but you yourself aren't dedicated, it will appear to your spouse that you use it as an escape only when things get tough. (Because that's what it will be.)

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Chad Sexington said:

Shawnacy By way of dissenting opinion, I'll quote this article from The Last Psychiatrist.

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I'm not sure how that applies in this case.

- He's not doing it instead of other activities, nor is he rushing through them to do it
- He's not doing it to get away from his wife
- He's not being inconsistent about it
- It's already an activity his wife enjoys herself, but it's somehow not okay to do it if he's not doing it with her?

This is pretty clearly in her court.

Yeah that article implies way too much into a situation that doesn't call for it. Then again, for the situations that it DOES target, that's pretty spot on. It's definitely not a fit all.

It's funny, but I can totally see myself in some of your wife's actions from a couple of years ago, Shawnacy. (Key word: some. Oh, and super duper belated "Congratulations on your marriage!" I'm never on here and so, although I said it to Darryl when he told me, I'm not sure if he relayed the information on to you.)

Now, I'm as clingy as hell, but with some decent conversations and good old fashioned, all-out verbal brawls I got to a point where I respected and (perhaps even more importantly) understood that my husband is a writer, and if it wasn't for me, he may have ended up as a hermit on a mountaintop with a dog and a computer, never needing human contact again. Knowing this, it highlighted his inherent need to get at least SOME alone time and how much attention he really was showering me with. He was making a huge exception for me on a daily basis and I was being selfish, demanding I get even more time because I was hugely insecure about myself as a person and as a then-fiancée.

Once the insecurity passed with a bit of personal growth and a less self-centered mindset, I came to grips with just how important it was that we both get alone time and we worked out a pretty good system. Looking back on how I was a couple of years ago, I feel like I was acting embarrassingly silly and if my friends could see me, they would have stepped in right away and called me on it. (My friends are awesome like that.) I do understand that there are big differences between my relationship and yours (seeing as I love vegging out next to Darryl and watching him play video games, especially ones I don't have good enough hand-eye coordination to play myself), but an important part of new marriages/co-habitation relationships involve some painful flushing out of old held fears, insecurities, anxieties, and the most important of all: points of view.

Writing out all of your needs, wants, problems, concerns, and motivations then taking it to an open forum with one another with some base rules set down (such as who will begin speaking, when the other party can ask questions, give comments, how to keep charged language from occurring such as "Don't say 'You do this and it makes me...', instead say 'I feel that you don't understand/listen/respect me when you...'" and so on) in such a manner that you can honestly and lovingly set everything out for you both to see is key. Then, once everything is in the open, begin to work on compromising and healing any revealed hurts.

If she refuses to do so or you feel that won't work out, I suggest you go to couple's counseling and have someone else set down the rules and give you a professional, outsider's point of view to place both of your ways of dealing with one another into perspective. If either you or she has a negative stigma attached to counseling (such as "Only couples on the rocks go to counseling!" or "These aren't big enough issues to PAY someone to help us with") remember that counseling is not just there for when your marriage is falling apart or as a last resort. Counseling is the mature, preventative way to get through your problems by having someone removed from the situation break down everything that is going on logically and without bias to either side, allowing someone mired in those adore-mentioned issues to get a fresh, bird's eye view, away from the emotions and the stress.

After all, taking care of these little problems early on with swift attention prevents small wounds from festering into lost limbs, do you know what I mean? I hope all of that made sense. I know I can ramble and run my mind in circles. ^^; Eh heh heh heh.

Love you, Shawnacy. Take care, ok? (Oh, and you are one swanky steampunk gent. So hawt! Darryl, kindly take note. )

Chad Sexington said:

Shawnacy By way of dissenting opinion, I'll quote this article from The Last Psychiatrist.

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That article is kind of right and kind of dumb. You cannot paint people with a broad brush. Some people need alone time. Some of them need more of it than others. Should these people not get into traditional familial structures? Maybe, but that's not the point. The point is, the writer there does not understand human beings beyond writing intents on paper.

Dream Goddess - Knocked it out of the park girl. Very well said. My wife would have a very similar post if she were on here.

Thanks, Gilgamesh! You're sweet!

Awww. Thanks, Julie.
We had a baby too recently by the way. Cute overload.

I certainly hope she learns to just appreciate the time we do spend together, and at least gets some perspective on it. I spend several hours a day with her, and I give up a lot of potential time I could be getting other things done to do so. I shouldn't have to come to work and think "wow. A breather". She did this when we were dating too. Showing up every day, and got emotionally distressed if she couldn't. She's very emotional and delicate with these things, so talking to her is always a gamble. If at any time she senses that I'm not spending what she deems enough time with her she will start to become distant or otherwise cold to me. She'll ask me questions like "Do you love me?". She does have major insecurity issues, so it's probably related. When it comes to other women it's an absolute nightmare. She'll trust certain women I work with, but as far as she's concerned just thinking (not stating. THINKING) that another girl is attractive in anyway is cheating. I had to give up a good friendship with an ex because she was my ex. I tried to explain to her that the reason we are still friends is because even when we were dating that's really all we ever were. I held my ground for months until she finally gave me no other option and I had to remove all contact from this person.
"Whipped" doesn't do me justice.
I've given up so much for her. And I still feel like I'm giving more and more up just to make her happy.

Chad Sexington said:

Shawnacy By way of dissenting opinion, I'll quote this article from The Last Psychiatrist.

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That article depresses me. I really don't think it applies to my situation. Yes I want to play, but I'm not going shove aside my family to do so. For example: The twins' birthday was today. I worked a 12-7 shift the night before, and the following night. My wife decides to volunteer at the kids' preschool carnival so I'm in charge of taking the kiddos around to all the games and things. That evening we had a birthday dinner at my parent-in-laws'. My sleep schedule consisted of the following. 1 hour in the morning. 2 hours after the carnival during nap time. And 2 hours after we got back from the in-laws' and I bathed and put the kiddos to bed because my wife's CRPS started flaring up. I nearly died on the road to work when I started pulling closer and closer towards the median when I momentarily dozed off.
What was I tempted to do? Since my wife contracted herself to the carnival I would have done that with the kids, and then just skipped the birthday dinner to sleep and maybe an hour or two of Xbox before work. But I didn't. Because it's their 4th birthday and I'm not missing it just because my wife wanted to volunteer at my inconvenience.

My wife at one point started issues with spending time with my sister. We had moved about 3hrs away so gaming was the only way we were in contact at that point. When she'd actually make the rare trip to visit me, my wife would throw a huge fit when I'd stay up late with her. It's definitely an issue with insecurity. My wife had a series of really bad relationships and the father of her son cheated on her multiple times so she had alot of trust issues that blended into that as well. Again, just trying to throw out my personal experience as a perspective on things here Shawnacy

I really do wish you the best of luck because my wife and I have a really solid system that works great for both of us. It just took some serious time to get here.

Thank you, [user]Gilgamesh.[/user] I really hope we get there too. I say such negative things about her in these forums, but I do want people to know that I married her for a reason. We really do mesh well together. We make each other laugh like nothing else. We're weird together. We're cute together. Her kids love me and I love them. Our baby together is my pride and joy. I am genuinely happy with my relationship status, and as I have told her on multiple occasions with a sly grin. "You married a Todd. You're stuck with my loyal jerk-face for life.".

One day we were sitting in the car eating pudding we bought from a store. We were trying to identify taste sensations and whether we liked it or not. She just stares down at the cup and says completely innocently "I don't know. There's something off-putting about it.". I just cocked my head at her with a shit eating grin and said "Really? Really?". We laughed for a good while.
It's moments like that that remind me why I'm here taking the abuse about playing Xbox for a few hours every other day or so.

Shawnacy said:

That article depresses me. I really don't think it applies to my situation.

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Ack! I did not mean to suggest the whole article applied to your situation. I linked it merely for citation; the paragraph I quoted was the only pertinent point I wanted to bring into the conversation. I apologise if you felt the article, on ruining a marriage, was directed at you. It was definitely not my intention.

I also don't have all the facts, and can't say that it is correct. I find the author's advice very useful for me, as I often lose sight of other's needs, and forget to enjoy my life with them. Like you, I need alone time to recharge my emotional energy, and sometimes I desire that at the expense of those I love. I meant to pass on that idea, but I probably shouldn't have posted without better explaining that. I sort of dropped it off, context-free.

I do get that you need time to yourself, and while my inclination is to assume your desire to play games is equivalent to my own faults vis-a-vis alone time, that's unfair. I cannot characterise you as like me; I don't know you! So, I truly intend only to share my experience, and perhaps that will help in one way or another.[DOUBLEPOST=1367176409][/DOUBLEPOST]

Quotemander Prime said:

That article is kind of right and kind of dumb. You cannot paint people with a broad brush. Some people need alone time. Some of them need more of it than others. Should these people not get into traditional familial structures? Maybe, but that's not the point. The point is, the writer there does not understand human beings beyond writing intents on paper.

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I wholeheartedly disagree, but again that might betray more about me than anything. I'm a big fan of the blog, and while I occasionally disagree, I find much of what the author writes to be pertinent to my experiences, and often the people I know.

Shawnacy said:

I nearly died on the road to work when I started pulling closer and closer towards the median when I momentarily dozed off.

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This scares me. Please be careful!

Do you often have days where you don't get enough sleep like that?

Chad Sexington said:

Ack! I did not mean to suggest the whole article applied to your situation. I linked it merely for citation; the paragraph I quoted was the only pertinent point I wanted to bring into the conversation. I apologise if you felt the article, on ruining a marriage, was directed at you. It was definitely not my intention.

I also don't have all the facts, and can't say that it is correct. I find the author's advice very useful for me, as I often lose sight of other's needs, and forget to enjoy my life with them. Like you, I need alone time to recharge my emotional energy, and sometimes I desire that at the expense of those I love. I meant to pass on that idea, but I probably shouldn't have posted without better explaining that. I sort of dropped it off, context-free.

I do get that you need time to yourself, and while my inclination is to assume your desire to play games is equivalent to my own faults vis-a-vis alone time, that's unfair. I cannot characterise you as like me; I don't know you! So, I truly intend only to share my experience, and perhaps that will help in one way or another.[DOUBLEPOST=1367176409][/DOUBLEPOST]
I wholeheartedly disagree, but again that might betray more about me than anything. I'm a big fan of the blog, and while I occasionally disagree, I find much of what the author writes to be pertinent to my experiences, and often the people I know.

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Your post to Shawn suggests you disagree with the article in this case, so not wholeheartedly disagreeing with me .

Quotemander Prime said:

Your post to Shawn suggests you disagree with the article in this case, so not wholeheartedly disagreeing with me .

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Yeah it kind of did come off that way.

Quotemander Prime said:

Your post to Shawn suggests you disagree with the article in this case, so not wholeheartedly disagreeing with me .

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Well I agree with the article just that it may not in whole apply to this case. But I guess what I mean is I disagree with the assertion that the author doesn't understand people.

Chad Sexington said:

Well I agree with the article just that it may not in whole apply to this case. But I guess what I mean is I disagree with the assertion that the author doesn't understand people.

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It's not that he doesn't understand people, it's that he paints too broad a stroke and claims that everyone is the way he says they are, and not some.

God fucking damn it.

So we're lying in bed. I'm waking up because I have to leave for work in like 15 minutes. I turn to see my wife switching off my phone. Which is nothing new. I grab her phone when it's handy for internet viewing too. I'm getting up and she says "Can I ask you something?".

Now leading up to this point please note that I met my wife on an internet dating site. Shortly before meeting her I chatted briefly with another woman. When I met my wife, and things started going well, I ceased communication with the other person. Yeah I probably should have told her "Hey. I met someone. Bye". But I didn't. Two years later I come across some outstanding Linkedin requests, so I think what the hell and accept them all. Turns out this other woman was one of them and she used the opportunity to write me. What do I do? I delete the email without a response and tell my wife about it.

So apparently my wife decides to find the deleted email and read it. In it she finds that apparently I mentioned to this other girl that I had been engaged before. She was first upset because she thought I was referring to her. When I told her I think she was referring to the other Sarah that I dated from 2000-2004. Then she got upset at that because apparently I never told her I was engaged. I explained to her that I was never officially engaged to anyone before her (my wife) and if I used the term "engaged" it was probably because I was feeling emo about how long the relationship lasted and how it ended. My wife's next reply was "So you lied to me?". Honestly I just blew up after that.

She's sitting here, letting her fucking insecurities tempt her into delving where she should not be delving, knowing fully well she'll take a piece of completely unimportant fact about my past and turn it into something bigger than it ever has to be. And she's trying to make it seem like she's fucking innocent. I just imagine a god-damn princess, walking up to a sleeping monster and poking it right in the eyes and giggling.

And she has the nerve to do this 15 minutes before I need to be at work. I had to leave fucking angry as hell.

It's already been said. Therapy. There's obviously some deep insecurities (I'm going to say they're on both sides of this relationship) that are causing conflict, and a professional and safe setting to explore those would do you both a world of good.

We did a bit of therapy. We stopped after Hailey was born just cause things kinda mellowed out a bit once her estrogen levels dropped. But it's probably better that we start up again.

Shawnacy - The likenesses are really starting to get crazy. My wife found an old FFXI ingame email I had from a girl I talked to before her. I never deleted the old emails when we were flirting and I still grouped with this girl at the time. She was aware I was dating my now wife at the time and we were just great game buddies (she was a fantastic healer). One day when I'm off at work, due to her insecurities, my wife logs onto my FFXI account (because when we started living together I gave her all my usernames and passwords to everything as a sign of good faith) and finds the mailbox.

The moment I get home from work, BOOM huge fight. -That's obviously the reason you play that game so much. Why haven't you told her about us? What's all this darling this and darlin that business?- it was uuuuugly. I told her that the girl knew about us but we stopped ingame mailing a long time ago and she could see the dates of those emails. She took that to mean we were flirting in game now instead to hide it better. Oh My Fucking God. I lost it too.

I feel you Shawn, if we lived anywhere near each other I'd take you out for drinks man and just talk for hours. Instead I'll offer my sincerest brohug here on the forum and will keep hoping for you two to make it work. You guys totally can, I know it's possible but you're hitting the really rough part my friend.

Ravenpoe said:

(I'm going to say they're on both sides of this relationship)

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I'm curious where, out of these posts, you got that Shawn was insecure about something?

Gilgamesh said:

Shawnacy - The likenesses are really starting to get crazy. My wife found an old FFXI ingame email I had from a girl I talked to before her. I never deleted the old emails when we were flirting and I still grouped with this girl at the time. She was aware I was dating my now wife at the time and we were just great game buddies (she was a fantastic healer). One day when I'm off at work, due to her insecurities, my wife logs onto my FFXI account (because when we started living together I gave her all my usernames and passwords to everything as a sign of good faith) and finds the mailbox.

The moment I get home from work, BOOM huge fight. -That's obviously the reason you play that game so much. Why haven't you told her about us? What's all this darling this and darlin that business?- it was uuuuugly. I told her that the girl knew about us but we stopped ingame mailing a long time ago and she could see the dates of those emails. She took that to mean we were flirting in game now instead to hide it better. Oh My Fucking God. I lost it too.

I feel you Shawn, if we lived anywhere near each other I'd take you out for drinks man and just talk for hours. Instead I'll offer my sincerest brohug here on the forum and will keep hoping for you two to make it work. You guys totally can, I know it's possible but you're hitting the really rough part my friend.

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Of course she's now trying to play it off like she was never mad, and I'm the one who was harsh and cruel when I went ballistic about her being so insecure. She apologizes FOR ME because she knows I'm tired and overworked and that's clearly why I said the things I said. Is it too much to ask for a "You're right. I was insecure and I shouldn't have poked around for something to be mad at you for."

Squidleybits said:

This scares me. Please be careful!

Do you often have days where you don't get enough sleep like that?

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This is a very common situation unfortunately. I work a night shift that typically goes from 10:30pm-7am. And it does not mesh well with the lifestyle my wife wishes to have me live.
I'd go into a lot more detail, but for the sake of keeping it nu-complicated I'll just say these.

• My wife feels that the kids need as much attention from us as possible. Meaning that even a simple trip to school is mandatory without a severe guilt trip. I might get an hour of sleep before this happens. This also applies to all of their activities that my wife has signed them up for. Swimming lessons. Gym. When I don't go I usually have to hear about how her Mom (who comes along on occasion) just bitched at her the entire time. The two only ever get along when someone is there keeping the peace. Saturdays are the same, in that we typically go on a family trip. I don't get Friday night off though, so I have to stay up most of the day until I'm allowed to sleep in the evening.
• I get fragments of sleep. When I get the chance it's usually for just a few hours at a time, and then I have to be up for one thing or another. She doesn't seem to understand that 2 hours of sleep, scattered about in three increments, does not equal six hours of continuous sleep.
• I'm always tired.
• When I'm on the road I have to struggle to keep my eyes open. I don't ever completely fall asleep yet. But I do nod off briefly and it's led to some scary moments.

It's severely affecting my happiness and health. But my wife does not seem to appreciate being left with 3 toddlers and a baby all by herself, which I don't blame her. But I have to work where she doesn't (and I'm not spiteful about this. It's for disability reasons as she really does wish she could work again). We both have online classes that we do our best to keep up with. She keeps signing the kids up for so many activities, and then she goes out and finds additional things to keep her busy such as planning for this huge combined birthday party for the kids (she's hand making a lot of items that will be handed out) and volunteering to cook for their school.

I'm so miserable right now. By the end of my shift I am completely drained. I'm nodding off so much I can barely finish my work.

If she were to get even a taste of how you sleep, she'd be signing a different tune. That sleep is not the least bit healthy, which you are already aware.

I don't honestly know how much she sleeps. She gets all night to attempt it of course. She's up with the baby sometimes, but she says that she never sleeps because of how much pain she's in from this CRPS thing. I know she does sleep. She does when I'm there. But apparently not when I'm at work.[DOUBLEPOST=1367239628][/DOUBLEPOST]Speaking of this CRPS thing it just boggles my mind. It's basically like fibrous-mialgia, It's pain all over her body. It started when she got shocked at work by a pull out fridge. It started in her arm where the shock occurred and has since moved throughout her entire body. She describes it as a 10 on the pain meter. She seems to deal with it most of the time, often saying she can handle the "base" pain. When it gets stronger and she has a flare up is usually when she collapses in pain. The problem with CRPS is that there are few doctors who even believe it's a real thing. If anything it's classified as a disease that doesn't make sense. No one seems to understand why this occurs in people.

For a long time we were on her workman's comp because we were suing the company (Disney). Cause it's Disney, they decided to not send her to any decent doctors who might actually validate CRPS as a real condition. So we went over a year with no real help for her. We finally settled with Disney for a pathetic sum, and now hopefully we can get her some proper care via my insurance through work.

But I'm scared to death this is a mental thing. I don't know with her sometimes.

Gilgamesh said:

I'm curious where, out of these posts, you got that Shawn was insecure about something?

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It's in his reactions to her. They're not at all abnormal, insecurity is going to breed insecurity, and it's a cycle that's going to be self feeding until it's broken.

I feel for you, Shawnacy and your wife. I hope that, even if all issues aren't solved (and they won't be, certainly not right away) that you can find a middle ground that makes you both happy.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys telling these tales put up with it for the long haul. If my wife hadn't gotten over her issues, we wouldn't have made it as far as even getting married. I've never wanted to stay in a relationship where the other person doesn't trust me wholeheartedly.

So here's a genuinely minor rant: I'm growing my hair out again, but I just made an appointment for tomorrow to cut the whole length in back off, because until the stuff in front grows long enough to weigh it down, I get these big, bouncy curls that could not be more foofy.

Fun Size said:

So here's a genuinely minor rant: I'm growing my hair out again, but I just made an appointment for tomorrow to cut the whole length in back off, because until the stuff in front grows long enough to weigh it down, I get these big, bouncy curls that could not be more foofy.

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I feel ya. Barbers and Hairstylist look at you like you have two heads when you say, I need a trim but I am planning on letting it grow long. I still have not successfully grown my hair long in 20 years, because I get bored with the awkward stages of hair growth.