Why Europe is awesome...

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8453878.stm

Stop-and-search powers ruled illegal by European court


Police have faced criticism of their use of Section 44

Police powers to use terror laws to stop and search people without grounds for suspicion are illegal, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.
The Strasbourg court has been hearing a case involving two people stopped near an arms fair in London in 2003.
It said that Kevin Gillan and Pennie Quinton's right to respect for a private and family life was violated.
Home Office Minister David Hanson MP said he was \"disappointed\" and would considering whether to appeal.
Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 allows the home secretary to authorise police to make random searches in certain circumstances.
But the European Court of Human Rights said the pair's rights under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights had been violated.
The court said the stop and search powers were \"not sufficiently circumscribed\" and there were not \"adequate legal safeguards against abuse\".
FROM THE WORLD AT ONE






More from The World At One

It also concluded that \"the risks of the discriminatory use of the powers\" were \"a very real consideration\".
The pair were awarded 33,850 euros (£30,400) to cover legal costs.
They were both stopped outside the Defence Systems and Equipment International exhibition at the Excel Centre in London Docklands in 2003, where there had already been protests and demonstrations.
Mr Gillan, 32, from London, was detained by police for about 20 minutes as he was cycling to join the demonstration.
Ms Quinton, 39, a journalist from London, was in the area to film the protests. She said she felt she was detained for about 30 minutes, although police records said it was five minutes.
Speaking to BBC Radio 4's The World At One, Ms Quinton said she hoped the ruling would lead to the government drawing up a \"fairer body of legislation to protect us\".
She said: \"The court hasn't said that there's no longer any scope for stops and searches, but that safeguards need to be in place to prevent misuse of these powers, because right now if somebody is stopped and searched, they have got no redress if they feel they were mistreated during the stop and search process.
\"It's not about saying that there's no need for stop and search. What we're really saying is people have a right to privacy and there needs to be a balance between police powers to ensure our safety but also our rights to a private life.\"
Parliamentarians must finally sort out this mess



Corinna Ferguson
Liberty

Mr Gillan said: \"It's fantastic news after a long struggle. I look to the government for a strong response.\"
Both were represented by Corinna Ferguson, legal officer for Liberty, who said the pressure group had \"consistently warned\" the government about the \"dangers\" of the powers.
Ms Ferguson added: \"The public, police and Court of Human Rights all share our concerns for privacy, protest, race equality and community solidarity that come with this sloppy law.
\"In the coming weeks, parliamentarians must finally sort out this mess.\"
But Mr Hanson, the policing and security minister, said he was disappointed at the decision given that the government had won all previous challenges in the UK courts.
He said: \"Stop and search under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 is an important tool in a package of measures in the ongoing fight against terrorism.\"
'Balancing exercise'
Lord Carlile, the government's independent reviewer of anti-terrorist legislation, told the World At One that the implications of the ruling were potentially \"quite serious\" and may require a change in the law.
He added: \"In my view, section 44 is being used far too often on a random basis without any reasoning behind its use.
\"The fundamental point that the court is making is that it increases the possibility of random interference with the legitimate liberties of the citizen.
\"On the other hand, we have to be safe against terrorism. There is therefore a very difficult balancing exercise to be done and I'm sure Section 44 will come under intelligent scrutiny in the coming months.\"
The decision overturned a 2003 High Court ruling - subsequently upheld by the Court of Appeal and the House of Lords - that the use of stop and search, and any consequent violation of human rights, was proportionate under the European Convention on Human Rights and justified in the light of the threat of terrorism.
The Section 44 search powers have proved controversial, and in May last year the Metropolitan Police in London said they would be scaled back.
The force had faced criticism that such searches had been alienating people from ethnic minorities in the capital.
Its commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, said the powers should be restricted to \"iconic\" sites, including Parliament and Buckingham Palace.

In your face America.
 
W

WolfOfOdin

But Al! If they can't stop and search everyone and such, how are they going to find the Terrorists?! I mean, their constitutions afford them little real rights, they should suck it up and take it as the price for safety, right?!

/Sarcasm off
 
M

makare

I think the US judiciary is doing a fine job of combating some of the more ridiculous terrorist legislation. In a more useful way too. Seriously, just saying that terrorist law cant be the sole reason to stop someone isn't much of a hindrance. Authorities are pretty good at finding reasons to stop that have nothing to do with terrorism.

However, making it public that that kind of thing won't be tolerated is never a bad thing so good for them.
 
It's illegal in the USA as well - you have to have significant cause to stop and search without a warrant.

So... I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Although it's interesting that the UK has ceded sufficient power to the EU that this sort of low-level police work can be micro managed by the international body.
 
Yeah guys, i was like totally serious... i'm totally the GasBandit of europe, except that over here we steal biodiesel, so it's more like VegetableOilBandit.

Although it's interesting that the UK has ceded sufficient power to the EU that this sort of low-level police work can be micro managed by the international body.
I don't think they're obligated to do it, but it certainly gonna pressure them into changing the law...
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
I don't think that's why Europe is awesome!
Why is it, then? Excellent cuisine, relaxed attitude towards nudity, a rich tapestry of music, millennia-long history?[/QUOTE]

Money with a name so stupid it seems like a ridiculous currency name from a science fiction setting?[/QUOTE]

So the others continents just pop'ed into existence a few years ago? good to know.

either way, don't forget the architeture.
 
What? You can't deny Europe's history is richer than that of America, the southern part of Africa or Oceania... Especially from the present perspective since much of the world's culture comes from (besides Asia).

Even if all this wasn't true... All the continents have millenia-long history, great. It doesn't make ours any less awesome :)
 
What? You can't deny Europe's history is richer than that of America, the southern part of Africa or Oceania... Especially from the present perspective since much of the world's culture comes from (besides Asia).
I wouldn't go there. If anything, I would say it was less interrupted.
 
'Richer' is definitely not the right word. It makes for more books if you want to put it that way. Or better even, forget the first two lines of my post...
 
I don't think that's why Europe is awesome!
Why is it, then? Excellent cuisine, relaxed attitude towards nudity, a rich tapestry of music, millennia-long history?[/QUOTE]

Money with a name so stupid it seems like a ridiculous currency name from a science fiction setting?[/QUOTE]

Eurodollar sounds SF to you?![/QUOTE]

Like a crappy SF name. "What name can we give the money of this... "Europe" place we invented? Credits? Wait! I've got it! EURO!"
 
Yeah, SF but, above all, when you think about it, lame.
So, any ideas for a good name for european currency?

I say European Mark or something.


(I want to note that in my previous post what I meant by history is not things that have happened but things of which we have written testimony)
 
B

Biardo

I don't think that's why Europe is awesome!
Why is it, then? Excellent cuisine, relaxed attitude towards nudity, a rich tapestry of music, millennia-long history?[/QUOTE]

Money with a name so stupid it seems like a ridiculous currency name from a science fiction setting?[/QUOTE]



Eurodollar sounds SF to you?![/QUOTE]

Like a crappy SF name. "What name can we give the money of this... "Europe" place we invented? Credits? Wait! I've got it! EURO!"[/QUOTE]

dude! how can you have anything against the Euro, it's all nice pink and orange and other fruity colors and it has bridges on it, BRIDGES!
 
What? You can't deny Europe's history is richer than that of America, the southern part of Africa or Oceania... Especially from the present perspective since much of the world's culture comes from (besides Asia).
I'm sure the billions living in the poverty of India thank their multitude of gods that Europeans descended upon their country to destroy their local industry and turn them from a successful country with thousands of years of history into a market where Europeans traded goods at jacked up prices to the locals for the mineral and agricultural wealth of their country.

I'm sure they also really appreciate the fact that Europe took no steps to actually create an infrastructure for their country before fleeing in the face of Ghandi's followers.

And the less said about the "culture" you spread throughout Africa the better but I do still hold Europeans responsible for the Rowandan Genocide and countless other atrocities and wars that have occurred solely because Europeans couldn't be bothered to consult with the locals when they drew the maps and declared the countries.

America isn't perfect we've done some absolutely terrible and atrocious things but in all honesty can you say that the world would be a much better place if America never exsisted? Because I can say with utmost certainty that if Europe had fallen into the ocean instead of conquering the world the world would be a much better place to live in.
 
Hey, most of that was the UK... and if you weren't an ignorant american you'd know they don't even consider themselves european... :p

Also, fall into the ocean? And then who exactly would have founded your country?

And it's Rwanda...

:laugh:

I say European Mark or something.
You mean the euromark? Sure, that wouldn't get shortened to Euro either. :rolleyes:

Some nice reading material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#Etymology
 
Hey, most of that was the UK... and if you weren't an ignorant american you'd know they don't even consider themselves european... :p
And the rest of Europe keeps on insisting that they are and that they should be more involved with the EU.

Also, fall into the ocean? And then who exactly would have founded your country?
Well the land already had people living on it and without the influence of Europe they probably would have estabilshed a Utopian society based on the belief that everyman woman and child had the inalienable rights...

Yeah that's bullshit. But I am well aware that in my scenario America would never be founded which ultimately is a worthwhile sacrifice for the good of the world.

And it's Rwanda...

:laugh:
Damn Europeans even gave it a stupidly spelled name. Another crime to add to their ever growing list. :)
 
Hey, most of that was the UK... and if you weren't an ignorant american you'd know they don't even consider themselves european... :p
And the rest of Europe keeps on insisting that they are and that they should be more involved with the EU.
That's all part of the 12 step plan to take over the world and impose socialism on it... Convincing the UK to join us completely is step 11... unleashing MechaObama on you is step 9, right after step 8, which is giving you universal health care.


Also, fall into the ocean? And then who exactly would have founded your country?
Well the land already had people living on it and without the influence of Europe they probably would have estabilshed a Utopian society based on the belief that everyman woman and child had the inalienable rights...

Yeah that's bullshit. But I am well aware that in my scenario America would never be founded which ultimately is a worthwhile sacrifice for the good of the world.
Who needs stuff like democracy or human rights anyway...

And it's Rwanda...

:laugh:
Damn Europeans even gave it a stupidly spelled name. Another crime to add to their ever growing list. :)
That's so totally not our fault, natch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_country_name_etymologies#R
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Rwanda
 
What? You can't deny Europe's history is richer than that of America, the southern part of Africa or Oceania... Especially from the present perspective since much of the world's culture comes from (besides Asia).
I'm sure the billions living in the poverty of India thank their multitude of gods that Europeans descended upon their country to destroy their local industry and turn them from a successful country with thousands of years of history into a market where Europeans traded goods at jacked up prices to the locals for the mineral and agricultural wealth of their country.

I'm sure they also really appreciate the fact that Europe took no steps to actually create an infrastructure for their country before fleeing in the face of Ghandi's followers.

And the less said about the "culture" you spread throughout Africa the better but I do still hold Europeans responsible for the Rowandan Genocide and countless other atrocities and wars that have occurred solely because Europeans couldn't be bothered to consult with the locals when they drew the maps and declared the countries.

America isn't perfect we've done some absolutely terrible and atrocious things but in all honesty can you say that the world would be a much better place if America never exsisted? Because I can say with utmost certainty that if Europe had fallen into the ocean instead of conquering the world the world would be a much better place to live in.[/QUOTE]

Where the fuck did I say Europe's history was the best or the greatest or whatever? I just said there's more of it... and even took that back. Of course there are things in Europe's history to be ashamed of. But you have to admit America's history is much shorter.

And, of course, you have had less time for atrocities, and have become a mature nation when the world was civilized already... so yeah can't compare.

Aaaaaaaand, last but not least, if anyone in Europe right now is to blame about colonialism and all that shit, then many people in the States and other American countries are too.
 
And, of course, you have had less time for atrocities, and have become a mature nation when the world was civilized already... so yeah can't compare.
Maybe in overall number of atrocities they're still behind, but i think they did a pretty good job with the level of brutality with the ones they did inflict...
 
That's all part of the 12 step plan to take over the world and impose socialism on it... Convincing the UK to join us completely is step 11... unleashing MechaObama on you is step 9, right after step 8, which is giving you universal health care.
Fucking knew you Europeans would exploit your old empire subjects to attack America.

Bastards.

Who needs stuff like democracy or human rights anyway...
I can count on 1 hand former European holding that respect either. And of course I applaud your arrogance that such ideas couldn't spring up in India or Africa had Europeans not done their whirlwind tour of raping and pillaging before leaving those countries in pisspoor shape and millions in debt to you.

I believe that I have prove CONCLUSIVELY that all evil in the world has sprung from Europe so yes the Europeans are still responsible for my having no idea how to correctly spell Rwanda.
 

North_Ranger

Staff member
:mad2::mad2: ENOUGH!! :mad2::mad2:

The next troll - from either side of the Atlantic - will do so at the pain of pissing me off. Let's keep it civil, shall we?
 
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